Final proposal - PM Johnson to unveil Brexit offer to EU

[dimitriv]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

You mean like those great deals the EU has with the US and China? 

 

Pffft, who needs to deal with those minnows.

 

And why do you think the UK will get anything better ?   

 

Trump liked the idea of Brexit. And that is not because he wants to give the UK a good deal. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jip99]

Just now, welovesundaysatspace said:

You need a majority in parliament. You know that. 

 

Not necessarily.

 

Just preventing the collusion to prevent Brexit would be enough.

 

 

Personally, I prefer the idea of having an acceptable deal that would gain parliamentary approval....I am not sure whether all parliamentarians actually want that. This has gone on for so long, and become so distasteful in the HoC, that I would take No Deal over further procrastination.

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

A non-binding advisory referendum. I could ask three people in a pub and get an equally effective majority. You know very well you don’t have a majority for leaving, otherwise you would have left already. You only have a paper tiger. 

Yes, 3 people in the pub is comparable to 33 million votes ????. What was I thinking? 

 

 

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Many have already been negotiated but we cannot sign until we leave. South Korea for example.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49430207

 

Yes I consider the US to be a suitable trading partner. 

 

 

I am well aware of behind the scenes continuity trade deals, and I hope that they bear fruition, because the last thing I want is for the UK to be reincarnated as the sick man of Europe yet again.

[welovesundaysatspace]

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Many have already been negotiated but we cannot sign until we leave. South Korea for example.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49430207

 

Yes I consider the US to be a suitable trading partner. 

 

 

If you’re arguing with GDP numbers, it would be interesting to know how much in GDP is covered by EU trade deals and the single market, and how much in GDP the UK will cover after Brexit with their trade deals. 

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

 

And why do you think the UK will get anything better ?   

 

Trump liked the idea of Brexit. And that is not because he wants to give the UK a good deal. 

 

 

 

 

 

Because we are the fifth largest economy in the world, a great nation with a great shared history with the US. We will be self governing and therefore much more dynamic than the cumbersome, out-dated, un-democratic monolith that is the EU.

 

If you want to see why the EU cannot get deals, look at the way they have negotiated over Brexit. 

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Yes, 3 people in the pub is comparable to 33 million votes ????. What was I thinking? 

Neither gives you the parliamentary majority that you need. You know that. 

[dimitriv]

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

South Korea for example.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49430207

 

 

Quote: "The agreement is roughly in line with the terms of the existing Korea-EU free trade deal."

 

Where's the better deal?

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

I am well aware of behind the scenes continuity trade deals, and I hope that they bear fruition, because the last thing I want is for the UK to be reincarnated as the sick man of Europe yet again.

Of course they will bear fruition. Why wouldn't they? 2 countries that want to trade, neither one of them with a grudge to bear. This isn't the EU we are talking about, these are independent countries around the world that want to do business, not punish someone for leaving their club.

[welovesundaysatspace]

 

8 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

Not necessarily. 

Wrong. 

 

8 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

Just preventing the collusion to prevent Brexit would be enough.

You can call your constitution a collusion, but it doesn’t help you either. It’s just further ignoring reality. 

 

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Neither gives you the parliamentary majority that you need. You know that. 

Correct, the people want to leave and Parliament wants to Remain. I am happy you worked that out.

 

However, as Geoffrey Cox said, turkeys cannot avoid Christmas forever.

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

 

Quote: "The agreement is roughly in line with the terms of the existing Korea-EU free trade deal."

 

Where's the better deal?

I'm not your secretary, google the details if you want to know.

 

Given that we're not paying a Billion a month for OUR trade deal with Korea, not surrendering our fishing waters and opening our borders, I'll take that one rather than the one the EU negotiated on our behalf thanks.

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Correct, the people want to leave and Parliament wants to Remain. I am happy you worked that out.

The same probably applies for taxes and other things. People have to accept the constitutional laws I am afraid, which means to accept they’re living in a representative democracy.

 

At least you worked out now that there is no one who doesn’t let you leave, but it’s the UK who doesn’t want to leave. 

 

 

[dimitriv]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

I'm not your secretary, google the details if you want to know.

 

 

I googled. And made the conclusion that the UK could not get a better deal.

 

Now tell me...  Why do you think that the UK will get a better deal with the US and China ?  They already don't have enough power to negotiate anything better with something small like South Korea.

[welovesundaysatspace]

 

2 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

Yet the lines between staying and leaving vary little. This shows a persistent rejection of the European Union. So, better to separate now.

 

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/?removed

Your link shows a majority for Remain.

[luckyluke]

Rita Hayworth - "Put the Blame on Mame"

Hard Brexiters - "Put the Blame on Remain"

[JonnyF]

30 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

 

I googled. And made the conclusion that the UK could not get a better deal.

 

Now tell me...  Why do you think that the UK will get a better deal with the US and China ?  They already don't have enough power to negotiate anything better with something small like South Korea.

The EU doesn't have a proper trade deal with US and China. That was my point. 

 

So it's not going to be very difficult to get something that is better than nothing, is it?

[Boatfreak]

The UK is a sinking ship, it's whole economy is collapsing, I feel sorry for the Brits that were intelligent enough to understand that this was a bad move, I feel sorry for the young generation that will have to endure the decision of an older generation that will only suffer the consequences for a few years,  but the rotten apple has to be removed from the basket so Europe can go on with more important stuff. 

[stephenterry]

10 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

My opinion too.

This period of uncertainty has lasted too long. It's bad for both the UK and the EU.

Let us also accept that the British now know that the exit will be difficult and that their finances will suffer. Yet the lines between staying and leaving vary little. This shows a persistent rejection of the European Union. So, better to separate now.

 

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/?removed

Actually it shows the opposite. The results from 77 polls combined shows a 53% majority who would vote to remain. This is at September 2019. 

 

So can anyone tell me why a 2016 referendum outcome takes precedence over a 2019 multiple poll result which is today's actuality? 

 

I'll tell you - it's because johnson only cares about himself as being the saviour of the tory party, not Britain. In any event, when sanity returns after the GE, the blitzed tory party will be history. 

 

Not that I find the alternatives warming, either, but hopefully this brexit folly is a wake-up call for both any new UK government and the EU, going forward.

 

[Boatfreak]

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The EU doesn't have a proper trade deal with US and China. That was my point. 

 

So it's not going to be very difficult to get something that is better than nothing, is it?

We have heard this before. Brexit was going to be an easy deal. 3 years later......

[JonnyF]

33 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The same probably applies for taxes and other things. People have to accept the constitutional laws I am afraid, which means to accept they’re living in a representative democracy.

 

At least you worked out now that there is no one who doesn’t let you leave, but it’s the UK who doesn’t want to leave. 

 

 

The UK Parliament is trying to stop us from leaving. They may succeed temporarily, but if you think that Brexiteers are going to forget about the referendum result that they won then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

It's only a matter of time until the next General Election, despite the oppositions lack of balls to call one. The swamp will be drained, the traitors and anti-democrats will be removed from their seats and then we will see how much you love the sovereignty of Parliament, when it's full of Leavers as voted for by the electorate ????.

 

As Cox said, these turkeys cannot avoid Christmas forever. I can wait, as will the rest of the democratic, silent majority that wish to leave. 

 

All Parliament is doing is putting the country on hold, delaying investment and dragging our reputation and currency through the dirt. If that makes you happy then enjoy it while it lasts, because the hour glass is running out for this disgrace of a Parliament ✊????.

 

[JonnyF]

7 minutes ago, Boatfreak said:

We have heard this before. Brexit was going to be an easy deal. 3 years later......

That was with the EU, a protectionist racket acting like a woman scorned. 

 

I'm talking about doing trade deals with the more mature governments around the world. With leaders that don't cut off their nose to spite their face.

[wombat]

2 hours ago, dimitriv said:

 

Most Europeans I know would love to see the UK sink into the sea. And I am tired of all the whining of a bunch of incapable fools. Best would be to close all borders for 100%, to close the tunnel and let them sort it out for themselves.

Can't do that the EU security forces need it to march through.

[wombat]

13 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

That was with the EU, a protectionist racket acting like a woman scorned. 

 

I'm talking about doing trade deals with the more mature governments around the world. With leaders that don't cut off their nose to spite their face.

 

 

Those deals have already been done...business does not let politicians get in the way 

[Boatfreak]

14 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

That was with the EU, a protectionist racket acting like a woman scorned. 

 

I'm talking about doing trade deals with the more mature governments around the world. With leaders that don't cut off their nose to spite their face.

ZImbabwe?

[Boatfreak]

3 minutes ago, wombat said:

Can't do that the EU security forces need it to march through.

The EU really? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/07/uk-seeks-european-naval-force-counter-piracy-gulf-190722175438991.html

[nauseus]

33 minutes ago, Boatfreak said:

The UK is a sinking ship, it's whole economy is collapsing, I feel sorry for the Brits that were intelligent enough to understand that this was a bad move, I feel sorry for the young generation that will have to endure the decision of an older generation that will only suffer the consequences for a few years,  but the rotten apple has to be removed from the basket so Europe can go on with more important stuff. 

Another one completely ignoring and omitting the latest stellar economic numbers from the EU. Not.

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, Boatfreak said:

ZImbabwe?

Funny you should mention that, didn't seem to bother the EU. ????

 

https://www.theindependent.co.zw/2013/11/08/zim-eu-trade-pact/

 

[JonnyF]

37 minutes ago, Boatfreak said:

The UK is a sinking ship, it's whole economy is collapsing, I feel sorry for the Brits that were intelligent enough to understand that this was a bad move, I feel sorry for the young generation that will have to endure the decision of an older generation that will only suffer the consequences for a few years,  but the rotten apple has to be removed from the basket so Europe can go on with more important stuff. 

Yep, plenty of important stuff for the EU to deal with, even The Guardian acknowledges it.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/24/the-europe-union-has-bigger-problems-to-deal-with-than-brexit

 

[Boatfreak]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Another one completely ignoring and omitting the latest stellar economic numbers from the EU. Not.