Ozone Generator

[muly]

I have a new swimming pool of about 150,000 liter in Chiang Mai and installed an Monarch ozone generator and Ionizer.

I am not sure if the contractor did a proper installation and if he uses the correct air pump to inject the Ozone to the water inlet.

1. Does anyone know how should it be installed?

2. What kind of auto chlorinates system is recommend to operate with this ozone generator and Ionizer.

[klikster]

I have a new swimming pool of about 150,000 liter in Chiang Mai and installed an Monarch ozone generator and Ionizer.

I am not sure if the contractor did a proper installation and if he uses the correct air pump to inject the Ozone to the water inlet.

1. Does anyone know how should it be installed?

2. What kind of auto chlorinates system is recommend to operate with this ozone generator and Ionizer.

If an ozone generator is working properly, it replaces chlorine. Ozone is a more powerful oxidizer than chlorine.

Generally, very dry air is used to carry ozone (i.e. a compressed air dryer that gets down to -40 dewpoint.). Ozone needs to mix thoroughly with water and maintain contact as long as practical in order to oxidize properly.

All that being said, if you can get it working properly, it's a much better system than chlorination.

Consider doing some serious web surfing and maybe join some appropriate forums.

[cdnvic]

These ozone generators DO NOT replace chlorine.

The manufacturer recommends salt water chlorination but I think you'd be fine with a simple chlorine puck feeder for simplicity, low cost, and ease of use.

Are one of these your generator's manual?

http://www.monarchpoolsystems.com/manuals/...%20Complete.pdf

http://www.monarchpoolsystems.com/manuals/...20Generator.pdf

Edited July 24, 2007 by cdnvic

[klikster]

These ozone generators DO NOT replace chlorine.

The manufacturer recommends salt water chlorination but I think you'd be fine with a simple chlorine puck feeder for simplicity, low cost, and ease of use.

Are one of these your generator's manual?

http://www.monarchpoolsystems.com/manuals/...%20Complete.pdf

http://www.monarchpoolsystems.com/manuals/...20Generator.pdf

Well, maybe THESE don't, but adequate ozonation of water has the same oxidizing effect as chlorine, actually, ozone is a more powerful oxidant.

Back in the '80s, NASA did a side-by-side study of 2 air-conditioning cooling towers at their facility in Pasadena? .. Ames?. I had a chance to go out and have a look and spent quite a lot of time with the chemist who supervised the study. A report on the study may or may not still be available.

Not only did the ozone treatment replace chlorination, but all the scale and crud buildup on the tower eventually dropped into the basin.

A positive side effect was that the tower no longer needed blowing down. They simply vacuumed out the basin with a pool vacuum.

The reason ozonation is probably not a viable stand alone option for swimming pools is cost. Compressed air dryers, large volume ozone generation units, continued maintenance, etc.

Quite naturally, the chemical companies claim that ozonation doesn't work.

[klikster]

These ozone generators DO NOT replace chlorine.

The manufacturer recommends salt water chlorination but I think you'd be fine with a simple chlorine puck feeder for simplicity, low cost, and ease of use.

In thinking about this a bit more, I wondered what the benefit of the ozone generator is since chlorine is still required?

[cdnvic]

The more that the ozone kills, the less chloromines that are formed by the chlorine and it means far less superchlorinating is required and you don't get much of a chlorine smell. Some large operations are beginning to use UV light in a similar fashion which I believe is the way of the future.

Never heard a claim that ozone didn't work. It's just not stable so you don't get a persistent sanitizer without something else present unless you want it running 24/7.

[klikster]

The more that the ozone kills, the less chloromines that are formed by the chlorine and it means far less superchlorinating is required and you don't get much of a chlorine smell. Some large operations are beginning to use UV light in a similar fashion which I believe is the way of the future.

Never heard a claim that ozone didn't work. It's just not stable so you don't get a persistent sanitizer without something else present unless you want it running 24/7.

The chemical companies were claiming that ozone would not work for cooling tower water treatment because profits are so high for them. The large scale ozonators I have seen used a high dialectric strength tube, like a titanium ceramic (if I recall correctly), with high voltage across the air gap. Voltages were ranging from 4,000 to 12,000 volts.

Compressed air was used to carry the ozone, and the air had to be extremely dry, like -40 to -100 F dewpoint.

Some of these featured do not mix well with people in water.

I really wonder how much ozone can be produced by UV. The applications I saw that used UV was normally for final sterilization of laboratory quantity applications.

Swimming pools are somewhat problematic for ozone because of the volume of water and keeping the ozone in solution.

Edited July 24, 2007 by klikster

[cdnvic]

Water towers look to me to be an optimal place to use ozone because you don't want residual sanitizer in the water. The generators are nice in hotels because less downtime superchlorinating means happier guests, and less chloromines means the whole place doesn't smell of chlorine.

[elkangorito]

Water towers look to me to be an optimal place to use ozone because you don't want residual sanitizer in the water. The generators are nice in hotels because less downtime superchlorinating means happier guests, and less chloromines means the whole place doesn't smell of chlorine.

Sorry to bust your bubble CD but the biggest reason why ozone disinfection is not commonly used is because it is highly corrosive. It's ok if you can get every single pool part made in PVC or the like.

Anybody who owns cooling towers will never use chlorine or ozone to maintain disinfection as these chemicals will cause very expensive corrosion problems. The only time chlorine is used in cooling towers is when an outbreak of legionella has occurred & the colonies need to be knocked out quickly. After this 'shock' disinfection, the cooling tower is drained & flushed to get rid of the chlorine & normal disinfection is then reinstated.

...or are you talking about 'drinking' water towers?

Edited July 26, 2007 by elkangorito

[cdnvic]

Sorry to bust your bubble CD but the biggest reason why ozone disinfection is not commonly used is because it is highly corrosive. It's ok if you can get every single pool part made in PVC or the like.

Actually, it's for the reasons I stated. Corrosion is not really an issue when your water is properly balanced. The big issue for smaller operators is cost and having a residual sanitizer in the water. Most large public pools being built now use it as their main disinfection method.

[elkangorito]

Sorry to bust your bubble CD but the biggest reason why ozone disinfection is not commonly used is because it is highly corrosive. It's ok if you can get every single pool part made in PVC or the like.

Actually, it's for the reasons I stated. Corrosion is not really an issue when your water is properly balanced. The big issue for smaller operators is cost and having a residual sanitizer in the water. Most large public pools being built now use it as their main disinfection method.

I agree with you about ozone being used in pools but if used in cooling towers, it's disastrous.

[Naam]

I agree with you about ozone being used in pools but if used in cooling towers, it's disastrous.

friendly reminder (off topic) for elkangorito:

don't forget that you are supposed to check with me tomorrow my "cooling tower" over a bottle of Sherry.

[klikster]

Sorry to bust your bubble CD but the biggest reason why ozone disinfection is not commonly used is because it is highly corrosive. It's ok if you can get every single pool part made in PVC or the like.

Actually, it's for the reasons I stated. Corrosion is not really an issue when your water is properly balanced. The big issue for smaller operators is cost and having a residual sanitizer in the water. Most large public pools being built now use it as their main disinfection method.

I agree with you about ozone being used in pools but if used in cooling towers, it's disastrous.

NASA didn't find that to be the case at all.

This is old, but:

http://www.p2pays.org/ref/19/18055.htm

Edited July 28, 2007 by klikster

[elkangorito]

Sorry to bust your bubble CD but the biggest reason why ozone disinfection is not commonly used is because it is highly corrosive. It's ok if you can get every single pool part made in PVC or the like.

Actually, it's for the reasons I stated. Corrosion is not really an issue when your water is properly balanced. The big issue for smaller operators is cost and having a residual sanitizer in the water. Most large public pools being built now use it as their main disinfection method.

I agree with you about ozone being used in pools but if used in cooling towers, it's disastrous.

NASA didn't find that to be the case at all.

This is old, but:

http://www.p2pays.org/ref/19/18055.htm

An excerpt from the link above;

"Cooling towers associated with chillers for air-conditioning are good candidates for ozone application. Ozone may be a corrosion stimulant rather than an inhibitor, and this can be a factor in some circumstances. Nevertheless, it is easier to combat corrosion in a clean system than in one that is biologically and mineralogically fouled."

This treatment has been tried before in cooling towers all over the world & unless the cooling tower is made entirely from wood &/or plastic, ozone will corrode it to death. I can assure you that if ozone was so great in cooling towers, it would be used everywhere, which it is not because most cooling towers have metal components.

In my 7 years of facilities management, I have never once seen a cooling tower treated with ozone. If you ask any major chemical water treatment company (like Nalco), they will tell you what I have told you. I believe that NASA builds spaceships, or have they diversified?

Edited August 1, 2007 by elkangorito

[klikster]

If you ask any major chemical water treatment company (like Nalco), they will tell you what I have told you.

Um .. what would you expect a chemical company to say?

I believe that NASA builds spaceships, or have they diversified?

Most professionals realize the extent of NASA's branches and associations as well as the unbiased research they undertake.

[cdnvic]

Well, regardless of the method of production, be it from ozone, or solids, chlorine gas is corrosive. The only reason it's worse when it's produced from ozone is that it's not stable and is more prone to gassing. This can be controled somewhat by adding cyuranic acid to the mix but IMO, it's all going to be replaced by UV systems anyways.