Anti-farang Attitude

[CSS]

555

...seems that maybe someone does protest too much. I am sure the OP can use his advanced level of reasoning to understand the underlying points of my reply.

Seagull: If you genuinely suffer from Asperger's syndrome, then I'll keep that in mind and ignore your future "contributions".

All this talk about anti farang attitudes has me wondering. I have had the good fortune to visit Thailand half a dozen times and have never had a problem with the locals.

I have always treated them like I wished to be treated and in return they have responded in kind and I agree that a smile has always been met with one in return.

The original question about attitude makes me wonder whether things have changed since my last visit in 2004 when we stayed in Chiang Mai and visited all over the north, because I would hate to think that I am no longer welcome in the country.

Was the question speculative, or born of a bad experience or two?

If you were to return to Thailand for a visit now I think you would find the Thai's you meet just as agreeable now as you did then.

[Espina]

Almarg: Don't worry. You can travel pretty much anywhere on earth and find examples of xenophobic behaviour. The point of my earlier post was that if one acts like a lout then expect to be treated like one. This is the same pretty much anywhere. The anti-farang attitude alluded to in other posts is ,in many cases, simply an anti-"certain types of behaviour" attitude that some farang choose to display. This does not mean that every Thai is a good or gracious person and nor does it mean that every Thai person has an anti-farang attitude anymore than each and every farang is a lout. If you, as an individual, are polite and gracious, you can expect the same from the overwheming majority of Thais.

Enjoy your travels!

Espina

[Jahil]

555

...seems that maybe someone does protest too much. I am sure the OP can use his advanced level of reasoning to understand the underlying points of my reply.

Seagull: If you genuinely suffer from Asperger's syndrome, then I'll keep that in mind and ignore your future "contributions".

All this talk about anti farang attitudes has me wondering. I have had the good fortune to visit Thailand half a dozen times and have never had a problem with the locals.

I have always treated them like I wished to be treated and in return they have responded in kind and I agree that a smile has always been met with one in return.

The original question about attitude makes me wonder whether things have changed since my last visit in 2004 when we stayed in Chiang Mai and visited all over the north, because I would hate to think that I am no longer welcome in the country.

Was the question speculative, or born of a bad experience or two?

The initial question did not born from a bad experience. After spending 1 to 2 months in Thailand every year since more than 10 years, I never had bad experience. At the opposite.

The question rose from the fact that I saw on Thaivisa a lot of postings relating to.

[chang35baht]

555

...seems that maybe someone does protest too much. I am sure the OP can use his advanced level of reasoning to understand the underlying points of my reply.

Seagull: If you genuinely suffer from Asperger's syndrome, then I'll keep that in mind and ignore your future "contributions".

All this talk about anti farang attitudes has me wondering. I have had the good fortune to visit Thailand half a dozen times and have never had a problem with the locals.

I have always treated them like I wished to be treated and in return they have responded in kind and I agree that a smile has always been met with one in return.

The original question about attitude makes me wonder whether things have changed since my last visit in 2004 when we stayed in Chiang Mai and visited all over the north, because I would hate to think that I am no longer welcome in the country.

Was the question speculative, or born of a bad experience or two?

Almarq, don`t even consider the fact that there is an anti-farang attitude up here in the north. It`s absolute b-llsh-t. It seems to me that the OP raised this question purely on the basis of what he read in some other sub-forums. Merely a TROLL.

You come on back up here and enjoy your tour.

All the best.

C35b.

[Joel Barlow]

Almarq, don`t even consider the fact that there is an anti-farang attitude up here in the north. It`s absolute b-llsh-t. It seems to me that the OP raised this question purely on the basis of what he read in some other sub-forums. Merely a TROLL.

Hmmm Chang... maybe you should talk to teachers (especially ones around here who've recently lost their jobs) more. There are always a few wackos who send annonomous inflammatory letters, etc - which has been going on for years.

It’s fear most exacerbates prejudice and intolerance, pushing men into poor judgements. Sloth and other vices (on the part of Farang) detract from the respect Thais had for the pu-dii Angrit of 50 to 150 years ago. Exploitative, colonialistic attitudes, unfortunately, still abound, helping fan flames of Thai nationalism. And we've had more than a few "soccer holligans" just looking for a fight...

When we worry about our inability to police our own (the way Chinese and Italian secret societies have done), and are embarrassed by misbehaviour, loss of face and our insecure position in a polite society more open to fun than most of us are used to, it may help to remember that sometimes we are blaming the victim. The past cannot be escaped – personal, political, economic… despite that Thailand is a place to escape to. Many Farang much prefer not to be known by their real, full name… and don’t care how they are seen by either locals or other Farang. Locals can be amazingly non-judgemental and forgiving; we might best learn to be so also. But it's hardly strange that people want to protect themselves, their homes, their children...

Some of the people escaping to here have real problems. Many badly traumatized and neglected children lose the ability to form internal sense of self-worth, and must depend on the opinions of others. Their sense of honor and pride becomes brittle and easily threatened, by real or imagined disrespect from those around them. If, when young, they are shamed by others, they grow likely to react with violence. The moral dimension of severe trauma, the betrayal of 'what's right,' obliterates the capacity for trust: customary meanings to words are exchanged for new ones; fair offers from opponents are scrutinized for traps; every smile conceals a dagger. Sound familiar?

Best to try neither to pity nor hate, nor simply to tolerate. Some of us believe that the soldier who lives suffers more than those he killed, while realizing, that soldier does not want pity. Much in the way it’s said, “The best revenge is to live a good life,” the best we can do is to set an example: use humor, or, like the Thais and even Crazy Joe of 666 Bar, a smile (but, unfortunately, Joe has had problems with one of our contributors here, with a history of violence, and he may be off to Phnom Penh - where problems may well be worse). It's best to not become plagued and beset by the repeat pattern demons – trust that things can work out for the best, get therapy, whatever. Try to do constructive, positive, helpful things, and let go of any sense that issues need immediate resolution. As with easy-come easy-go, whatever happens quickly doesn’t last. Those who work with local people here, instead of just using them, find themselves usually feeling welcome. There're many good reasons for the recent visa "crack-downs", but Thailand remains as easy, welcoming and comfortable as anywhere.

[chang35baht]

Joel, after reading your post(and I`ll take your word for it that these are all your own words), why didn`t you just say that you agree with me!

As for the farang teachers I know that live and work in Chiang Rai, I see more anti-farang attitude amongst their own group than from the Thais. Also I don`t think you can include a particular group of people that probably number less than 0.001 of the population up here as an example to show that an anti-farang attitude exists.

I believe the original post was more about the Thai attitude to the people that come here as tourists and people that live here but don`t work.

It`s a natural reaction for any national to bear a grudge of some sort to a person that comes to their country, works 40% to 60% of the hours they do but obtain remuneration of 4 to 5 times that they receive

I personally cannot recall any anti-farang attitude during my 8 years or so of living in this wonderful country that you yourself choose to reside. Apart from when I myself during the early years made a few mistakes and may have upset some Thais. Give or take the odd case of overpricing. Which can usually be sorted out once they hear you haggling in Thai. Tourist do and will always get ripped off no matter which countries they choose to visit

As some posters have already noted in previous posts " trouble loves company".

See you soon Joel,

Stuart.

P.s. As far as teachers who have recently lost their jobs (I`m just back after a 3 month work stint), was it due to anti farang attitude? Or was it simple economics.

Yes, an English speaking native will almost always be a better teacher than most of the Thai teachers who teach English. But the law of the jungle dictates that a farang will be made redundant before a Thai.

Edited April 11, 2007 by chang35baht

[Jahil]

Joel, after reading your post(and I`ll take your word for it that these are all your own words), why didn`t you just say that you agree with me!

As for the farang teachers I know that live and work in Chiang Rai, I see more anti-farang attitude amongst their own group than from the Thais. Also I don`t think you can include a particular group of people that probably number less than 0.001 of the population up here as an example to show that an anti-farang attitude exists.

I believe the original post was more about the Thai attitude to the people that come here as tourists and people that live here but don`t work.

It`s a natural reaction for any national to bear a grudge of some sort to a person that comes to their country, works 40% to 60% of the hours they do but obtain remuneration of 4 to 5 times that they receive

I personally cannot recall any anti-farang attitude during my 8 years or so of living in this wonderful country that you yourself choose to reside. Apart from when I myself during the early years made a few mistakes and may have upset some Thais. Give or take the odd case of overpricing. Which can usually be sorted out once they hear you haggling in Thai. Tourist do and will always get ripped off no matter which countries they choose to visit

As some posters have already noted in previous posts " trouble loves company".

See you soon Joel,

Stuart.

P.s. As far as teachers who have recently lost their jobs (I`m just back after a 3 month work stint), was it due to anti farang attitude? Or was it simple economics.

Yes, an English speaking native will almost always be a better teacher than most of the Thai teachers who teach English. But the law of the jungle dictates that a farang will be made redundant before a Thai.

I a mhappy to read after a few posts that, in fact, there is no anti-frang attitude. It just confirm my feeling but being out since 8 months I just wanted to get confirmation of it.

Thanks to all of you for your imput

[Joel Barlow]

Whether teachers are good or not, valued or not, some do get "flammed" -

ask Chiangrai Guy. Is it anti-farang attitude, anti-authority, just flakyness? I don't exactly know.

I understand there are more and more Philapino and Indian teachers now.

I suspect anti-Farang attitudes are greater in BKK but don't go there much anymore.

one certainly reads about "nationalism" in the papers, and then there was that guy who supposedly killed

JonBennet Ramsey...

As for ChiangMai, I wonder how there could not be an anti-Farang attitude, as there is soo much off-the-wall behavior there (and one doesn't just have to witness the behavior - bad, or little, dress, bad smell...)...

One improtant thing I note:

in the countryside, among people without much money, there is almost always a great deal of friendliness.

Not always.

I was recently challenged on whether all hill-tribe villages want tourists.

They don't - not all.

Lisu villages just north of MaeFaLuang U. are distinctly unfriendly.

I asked if I could take a photo, and quickly left because of the response!

I think shame at poverty is part of the problem there... but surely some people just don't like being gaped at!

Anyway, same as in Costa Rica, Belize, Mexico and South America, there's resentment of bad behavior.

Count on it. Thais are polite and won't always tell you what they think...

And Thais often aren't all that interested in tourist (or retiree) money anymore - at least, not as much as they used to be!

But sure, it's still a great place, in my mind always has been the best, and i feel welcome here...

[mikethevigoman]

Xenophobia. It is a real thing all over the world.

I was raised to believe that it is our world, not my country.

Because I was born somewhere doesn't give me the right

to treat others coming to visit as somehow less than myself.

The UK isn't the same as Thailand by a longshot. They are

so open and protecting of foreigners (ok, except for the electrician they

shot 387 times in the subway for looking suspicious). In fact, the UK is

so freaking open and fair that a lot of natives don't want to live there -

they are leaving.

This is a great thread and could elicit a lot of soul-searching

for those that have souls.

ABSOLUTLY,. the minorities have all the rights,.gone way over the top,.

[sceadugenga]

Xenophobia. It is a real thing all over the world.

I was raised to believe that it is our world, not my country.

Because I was born somewhere doesn't give me the right

to treat others coming to visit as somehow less than myself.

The UK isn't the same as Thailand by a longshot. They are

so open and protecting of foreigners (ok, except for the electrician they

shot 387 times in the subway for looking suspicious). In fact, the UK is

so freaking open and fair that a lot of natives don't want to live there -

they are leaving.

This is a great thread and could elicit a lot of soul-searching

for those that have souls.

ABSOLUTLY,. the minorities have all the rights,.gone way over the top,.

In the UK the minorities have a history of taking over; Romans, Anglo Saxons, Danes, Normans...so maybe the immigrant's descendants will be squealing about newly arrived Eskimos (escaping global warming, what ever happens it will still be cold and wet in England), Australian Aborigines, Patagonian Indians et al in a few generations.

[mumbojumbo]

Xenophobia. It is a real thing all over the world.

I was raised to believe that it is our world, not my country.

Because I was born somewhere doesn't give me the right

to treat others coming to visit as somehow less than myself.

The UK isn't the same as Thailand by a longshot. They are

so open and protecting of foreigners (ok, except for the electrician they

shot 387 times in the subway for looking suspicious). In fact, the UK is

so freaking open and fair that a lot of natives don't want to live there -

they are leaving.

This is a great thread and could elicit a lot of soul-searching

for those that have souls.

ABSOLUTLY,. the minorities have all the rights,.gone way over the top,.

The minorities in Thai are the hilltribes, and they have no rights.

Edited April 14, 2007 by mumbojumbo

[sceadugenga]

Burmese, Shan (I refuse to call them a tribe), Khymer, Lao, Philippinos, Vietnamese, Chinese, Farang.... give me time I'll think of a few more. All minorities, all working for their rights in Thailand. The Chinese are working on running the country.

[chang35baht]

Forgive me but this topic has been severely hijacked.

see you on the next one

[mumbojumbo]

Forgive me but this topic has been severely hijacked.

see you on the next one

Well, start the next one.

[SeeJo]

Living in Thailand for 3 years, I experienced an attitude about Farangs.

It even made me aware of the meaning of the term 'farang' in most cases.

I summed it up as this: Anyone that isn't Thai is basically a second class citizen.

After all, they consider it 'their country'. You will feel this either quickly or slowly.

If you want to feel it quickly, display anger or demand someone speak English.

If you want the slow burn... be polite but demand Financial equality. You pay the same as your Thai friends, wife, family, etc.

Having said that, most problems a foreigner in Thailand has, they bring on themselves.

Many people live in Thailand understanding and accepting the money game and have made peace with it. Only my opinion. Let's see what others think...

Since a few weeks, I see in other sub-forums people speaking about anti-farangs attitude improving in Thailand.

What is your idea about it? Do you feel that also around Chiang Rai? Did you had experience?

Thank you to give us your feeling. Being in Europe fr the moment we (me and my Thai wife) would like to know.

Imagine that. Thais considering Thailand to be 'their country'

If a Thai was in the UK displaying anger and demanding someone speak Thai, there is a good chance that they would also quickly experience some 'attitude'.

In my 3 short years here, I have found that if you treat Thais respectfully (that doesn't mean you have to be subservient) they will reciprocate, most of the time. If you act like a kn*bhead, well, then you get what you deserve.

Well it is their Country, thats about it, we are guests here, they can have as much attitude as they like, if you dont like then leave.

In their defence I think they handle it well, imagine if you were in your Country and a Thai walked into your local entertainment venue or into a shop knowing he could take almost any female for some hanky panky within 5 mins for the price or a round, how would you feel?

This is simply not true. At not in ANY of the places I have lived in my humble 6 years in the "Land of Smiles that Mask their Real Feelings for Farangs" (Phuket, Petchabun, KoSamui, Chiang Rai, Bangkok, etc.). End of story, period.

FACT: Thais (all of them) DON'T LIKE US - ANY OF US - only the money they mistakenly thing we ALL have and can slick us out of. Given time and your confidence in them (ten years in the case of a friend of mine), they will systematically and gleefully rob you of your last penny. There are exceptions for a pittiful few Thai women (none for Thai men) who have a genuine open mind and who would just like to experience what it would be like to live with, have sex with, interact in all ways with a Farang using a truly open mind and an objective thought process (dam*ed few to be found!) - "one in one thousand"?? NO!! More like one in one Million!!!. Now CHEW ON THAT AND SEE IF YOU CAN SHOOT IT DOWN IN TRUTH AND GOOD CONSCIENCE! Now legitimately, and with thoughtful common sense I do hope, can make reply if you want. I await to be enlightend with "proof in the pud", and I may or may not reply - my option. It will take some doing to shake me off my and all my friends' hard earned experience. And no anecdotes please, because the story has yet to play out......... As the song in the famous English musical said: "Just you waait!".

SeeJo

[sbk]

Wow, that is the most ridiculous generalization I have read in some time there seejo. OK, I can give you a few Thai men who don't rip people off. My husband and his father. Two of the most honest men I have ever met, and that goes for farang as well. I could add more but hardly see the point, as you seem to have your mind made up.

Seems to me that those who get treated badly tend to fall into the "As you sow, so shall you reap" category.

[sceadugenga]

I live in a small village where some Thais like me and some don't. There's no pretence or false smiles.

The male members of my wife's family have never treated me with anything other than respect. They are all employed in the higher income side of the market and have no reason to be polite to me if they don't want to be.

Not a single member of her family has ever asked me for money, I will admit that the odd young nephew comes around occasionally and sits there hopefully until given 50B to mow the lawn.

I think you've either been extremely unlucky SeeJo or just made bad choices. If so, son nom nar.

[Ulysses G.]

Sounds like Seejo and his buds have spent every second since they arrived here in one bar or another, but I have even found a good number of good, honest Thais in the bars over many years. I would trust many of them over Seejo and his blind ilk any time.

[svenivan]

This is simply not true. At not in ANY of the places I have lived in my humble 6 years in the "Land of Smiles that Mask their Real Feelings for Farangs" (Phuket, Petchabun, KoSamui, Chiang Rai, Bangkok, etc.). End of story, period.

FACT: Thais (all of them) DON'T LIKE US - ANY OF US - only the money they mistakenly thing we ALL have and can slick us out of. Given time and your confidence in them (ten years in the case of a friend of mine), they will systematically and gleefully rob you of your last penny.

SeeJo

I think it is true... for some people.

If I meet an a¤¤hole I might treat him as an a¤¤hole. If I bother to stay around...

You have been living in many places, maybe you have a problem? Have you tried to get profesional help for your problems?

Good luck when you move to next place!

[chang35baht]

I`m sorry guys, but i think i`m developing an anti Seejo attitude.

Why would anybody stay in a place where they thought they were disliked or discriminated against?

It really is beyond belief.

[klikster]

FACT: Thais (all of them) DON'T LIKE US - ANY OF US - only the money they mistakenly thing we ALL have and can slick us out of.

So .. let me get this straight. The family that has basically "adopted" me ..

• The one that insists I stay in their house when I travel to BKK
  

• The family that pays for everything when we go out
  

• The family that provides me a driver when I'm in BKK
  

• The folks who acted as nominee for buying my house .. and getting a low interest mortgage in a sons name .. then selling the house and giving me 90% of the profit (my insistence on the 10%)
  

• All the inlaws and friend who call me 'Luang"
  

They are poised, hovering in greedy anticipation, to rip me off?

RATS!

And no anecdotes please, because the story has yet to play out......... As the song in the famous English musical said: "Just you waait!".

SeeJo

Sorry, you don't get the only word .. and I've been here longer than you have .. full time since '96

But I'm still waiting ..

But the family patriarch just called yesterday inviting me to their place in Cha am for the weekend. Their van, their gas, their condo, their treat.

Oh, woe is me .. will these rip offs never end?

[sceadugenga]

Nicely said klikster.

[asiaworld]

Funny this thread pop'd up in CR forum .. i've lived & travelled throu Thailand for last 10 years, and CR area i'd say is "the most advanced" on the "Thai human development index" scale . The way people on the street & officials treat you.. Hmm. if i had freedom to choose, where in Thailand (like if Bkk would dissapear ) i wouldn't think twice before moving up north ! Now in most other places in the country i do get much more "oy white mokey" racial looks !!

So guess not perfect , but you can still concider yourselves lucky chaps

[BossHogg]

We had an amusing eperience ( well it amused me ) at some hotsprings recently. My wife (Thai ) went to pay the entrance fee and i could see an argument had started.Basically the girl in the kiosk wanted to charge me the falang price but the wife wouldnt have it as she says i live here. The girls response was that i was driving a new 4x4 so i have money and should pay the higher price. My wife pointed out it was her car. Next it emerges they also want to charge for my baby daughter even though it clearly says no charge for young children , her argument being she is a falang baby and must pay falang price.

The wife and i actually started laughing as its so ridiculous. At this time , the boss turns up and asks what the joke is ? we explain , he laughs, charges everyone the Thai price.Happy ending but what a crazy stunt to try and pull!

[ray23]

Hey you guys picking on Udon or what

I had a great time when I visited Chaing Rai and hope to back up that way this year for a little motorcycle riding.

Not one person Thai or farrang was rude to me.

I don't expect friendship in a business transaction here anymore the I do anywhere else. It's business.

Yes I have Thai's in my life that enjoy sharing time with my wife and I. They expect nothing from us just enjoy spending time in a shared activity. I ahte to admit it but our Thai friennds actaully give us me gifts then we give. They Are small things maybe a dish of food they made at home or some vegetable they got out in the village. I'm not budhist but a nirghbor got me a medallon and took it to the monks for a blessing. I wear it cause I thought it was a very nice thing they did

The only time I think Thai's have a bad attitude is when I have one

[ISPY]

Since a few weeks, I see in other sub-forums people speaking about anti-farangs attitude improving in Thailand.

What is your idea about it? Do you feel that also around Chiang Rai? Did you had experience?

Thank you to give us your feeling. Being in Europe fr the moment we (me and my Thai wife) would like to know.

We never noticed that we are a second class. When you treat people nice and polite you will be treated the same. I think many farang behave like they are in Europe and have European expectations....if so, do not go to Asia. This is Asia!!! We love Asia every day. The Thai country is nice, people are nice and friendly etc. Okay, there is a difference in the culture, you have to accept this, otherwise (I am sorry to say) you will not be happy in this beautiful country.

[SeeJo]

P. P. P. S - I forgot to respond to someone's assertion that my Avatar was what I really look like.

Please be advised that it is my "Spitting" image!!!!!!!!!!!

SeeJo

[Crow Boy]

This thread is showing all the signs of degenerating into a flame war. I discussed it with the moderating team and we think it is best to close it before that happens.

For future reference please note that both McGriffith and I are happy to see threads that create divisions in thought and opinion however the posts must abide by the rules of good behaviour.

regards

CB