Refused Entry in BKK - Second METV - Deported back to London

[MattDM]

Didn't count really the days in 2018. Two SETV's with extension plus about 5 weeks of the start of the METV

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, Tuvoc said:

I'm retiring to Thailand late next year, joining my wife who went ahead of me at the end of last year. So for about two years in the interim I'll be making 4 x trips a year for 2 weeks each, on visa exempt. The address on the TM6 won't be a hotel but will be a residential address. I'm getting worried now that the residential address will create problems and they will think I'm living in Thailand. Any advice ? In this calendar year I've been once, 4 weeks in July/August. Or am I concerned about nothing...

If you have no history of long stays in Thailand, I believe four short visits a year will be OK. The residential address is easily explained as where your wife is living. Having tourist visas (even for these short stays) might be even safer.

[ICELANDMAN]

4 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

I'm retiring to Thailand late next year, joining my wife who went ahead of me at the end of last year. So for about two years in the interim I'll be making 4 x trips a year for 2 weeks each, on visa exempt. The address on the TM6 won't be a hotel but will be a residential address. I'm getting worried now that the residential address will create problems and they will think I'm living in Thailand. Any advice ? In this calendar year I've been once, 4 weeks in July/August. Or am I concerned about nothing...

You are the perfect dream IO tourist ????

[yogi100]

On 10/10/2019 at 11:10 AM, nailbrains8 said:

Was not asked to show 20k although he had it. I've known him since he first came to Thailand and his only other history was a single entry tourist visa.

 

- Single Entry (back to England)

- METV (back to England)

- METV (DENIED)

 

That's his entire history.

 

I'll ask him to jump on this thread when he can.

Just tell him he picked the wrong queue at the wrong time and the wrong IO who unfortunately was just having a bad day. That's all.

 

He'll be OK next time. If he pops into the Thai Embassy in Queensgate they'll refund the money he wasted on the airfare.

 

They've recently set up a special desk there specifically for this purpose.

[baboon]

9 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

Just tell him he picked the wrong queue at the wrong time and the wrong IO who unfortunately was just having a bad day. That's all.

 

He'll be OK next time. If he pops into the Thai Embassy in Queensgate they'll refund the money he wasted on the airfare.

 

They've recently set up a special desk there specifically for this purpose.

They certainly ought to, given that the entire visa system has been rendered effectively pointless. Warnings should be issued to the effect that all your visa provides is permission to show up at the border and take your chances of being allowed entry.

[yogi100]

On 10/10/2019 at 7:58 PM, Smokegreynblues said:

Few years ago I was on my second Tourist visa, I wore a suit , the immigration official questioned me like crazy. It is never a good idea to wear a suit.

Be honest. You wore a suit hoping to get a free upgrade to Business Class.

 

This 'insufficient funds' and 'working in Thailand' malarkey had not been thought up back then!

[Martyp]

3 hours ago, MattDM said:

Didn't count really the days in 2018. Two SETV's with extension plus about 5 weeks of the start of the METV

So it sounds like between early 2018 until June 2019 you spent about half that time in Thailand. That is consistent with other reports of people being denied entry. The problem is the disconnect between the Consulates issuing the visa and the entry standards of Thai Immigration at the border. It would be hard For anyone to know that you are at risk of being denied entry unless you follow social media closely for a long time. That turned into an expensive problem for you. 

[tomartoh]

On 10/11/2019 at 7:40 AM, Banana7 said:

I believe there is a rule somewhere (maybe not within law) that states entry is refused if foreigner has been in Thailand more than 180 days, in the current calendar and without a long-term visa.

 

 

That seems reasonable and maybe why they refused entry.  The whole picture to immigration was probably that he was living in Thailand.   

[yogi100]

On 10/11/2019 at 12:26 AM, BritTim said:

I am often critical of the ignorance of consular staff, but they are not at fault here. In many cases, the embassy will not even be aware of the entry point you will use to enter Thailand. That being the case, even if they are aware of various different, unofficial rules being applied at some entry points. it may still be impossible for them to know if you might be denied entry.

But the embassy staff are well aware of how to take your money off you when you apply for a visa.

 

If the embassy see fit to issue a visa then by rights that should be good enough for the goons at BKK airport.

[Martyp]

14 minutes ago, tomartoh said:

That seems reasonable and maybe why they refused entry.  The whole picture to immigration was probably that he was living in Thailand.   

The problem is that visas are issued by Consulates that don't conform with the discretionary practices of the IO's on the border. Many people who get a visa thinks that ensures entry but it doesn't. That results in people being denied entry and having to spend, sometimes, significant sums of money to end up where they started. I sympathize with genuine tourists. Not so much with people trying to live here on tourist visas.

[yogi100]

On 10/11/2019 at 2:56 AM, yuiop said:

Yes that's true, I hear this advice a lot, but you do need to show a ticket to Thailand when applying for a visa in your home country don't you. A throw away ticket would be something expensive, then you will have to buy your ticket to let's say Malaysia. The all thing would cost a fortune if you buy a refundable ticket. Unless you enter visa exempt (by land crossing for example) or apply for a visa in a neighboring country. At this point, better to chose another country to spend your time and money.

I've been getting METVs for years from the London Embassy and various UK consulates.

 

I've never once been even asked about any airline ticket.

[yogi100]

On 10/11/2019 at 3:28 AM, chrisinth said:

This to me is one of the major problems here. Embassies/consulates coming under MFA and immigration coming under immigration. Two separate parts of the government that currently don't seem to talking to each other. Main factor of this is that MFA don't (currently) have access to the Immigration database(s) and will issue visas through a checklist system and visual information obtained from your current passport.

 

What they believe and what immigration officials think could be worlds apart.

 

I noticed in post #67 of this thread by @Lovethailandelite that he states:

 

"The majority of Embassy's do not yet have access to the immigration database.....until very early next year"

 

If this is the case (not doubting it just because I haven't heard of this before) then IMO, this will not be any advantage to the frequent visitor but rather lead to a dramatic increase in the refusal to issue various visas as the person's travel history will be available.

 

It will however (if this is indeed true that MFA will have access to immigration databases from early next year) reduce the amount of visa turn-away's  entering Thailand.

What's MFA?

[Martyp]

4 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

What's MFA?

Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Completely different than the Department of Immigration.

[yogi100]

23 hours ago, StevieAus said:

I have been visiting Thailand for over 20 years and have lived here as a retiree on a retirement extension for more than eight years.

During this time I have never had an issue with Immigration and never been questioned at any airport or border crossing.

We have regular and return visitors from overseas as do many of my expat friends and none of them seem to have experienced any problem as it would seem neither do the thousands who arrive here daily.

I suspect the only ones who experience problems are the ones who want to stay here longer than a few weeks or make regular repeat visits over short period and are deemed not to be a “genuine tourist”

Answer go somewhere where they are happy to have tourists for long periods of time and give them your money.

But we do not know who has had these problems when trying to enter Thailand. Nor do we know how many others have experienced them. Especially falangs who do not even speak or read English. There are millions in Europe alone.

 

Very few visitors to the LOS are aware of this forum let alone the issue we're discussing. Many of them especially the older ones do not even know how to turn a computer on.

 

Some of my older pals definitely don't.

[yogi100]

22 hours ago, MadMuhammad said:

I disagree. I’m covered in ink which I don’t cover up and I always enter dress casually. 37 entries in 7 years now with never a question asked. 

Mixture of extended METV, extended SETV x 2, a bunch of exempts and now non-ED

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

 

There's always a first time. There was for my friend that I mentioned in the other topic on the same subject.

[Percy Penguin]

5 hours ago, MattDM said:

Didn't count really the days in 2018. Two SETV's with extension plus about 5 weeks of the start of the METV

 

6 hours ago, MattDM said:

I was in Thailand during 2019 for 6 months, less about 3 weeks for the trips to Singapore, Malaysia, Myanmar and Vietnam

With that history there was always a high risk they wouldn't let you in this time, especially coming in at BKK. There's obviously something pretty wrong with a system that takes money off you for a visa and then doesn't let you in. Did Hull give you any kind of warning that this might happen?

[yogi100]

6 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

I'm retiring to Thailand late next year, joining my wife who went ahead of me at the end of last year. So for about two years in the interim I'll be making 4 x trips a year for 2 weeks each, on visa exempt. The address on the TM6 won't be a hotel but will be a residential address. I'm getting worried now that the residential address will create problems and they will think I'm living in Thailand. Any advice ? In this calendar year I've been once, 4 weeks in July/August. Or am I concerned about nothing...

Some people are thinking twice about even holidaying in Thailand.

 

Let alone retiring there!

 

In the last few years there have been just too many negative developments to consider. Visas, insurance, poor exchange rates worsening attitudes etc.

 

Unless of course you don't seek a stress free retirement. In which case go for it!

[OJAS]

On 10/11/2019 at 5:04 AM, moontang said:

A few years ago, Lufthansa made me sign something saying I would be financially responsible for my return, if denied entry. 

If the word were to get about in the airline industry that, even those with valid visas were being denied entry into Thailand, the requirement to sign such disclaimers before being permitted to board flights to Thailand could conceivably become a matter of routine for all non-Thai nationals at airports of origin, regardless of their immigration status.

Edited October 12, 2019 by OJAS

[Martyp]

2 minutes ago, OJAS said:

If the word were to get about in the airline industry that, even those with valid visas were being denied entry into Thailand, the requirement to sign such disclaimers before being permitted to board flights to Thailand could conceivably become a matter of routine for all and sundry at airports of origin.

Of course. It is not the airline's responsibility. A visa isn't a guarantee to enter any country. And it will make the visa holder think seriously about the risks of travel.

[OJAS]

2 minutes ago, Martyp said:

Of course. It is not the airline's responsibility. A visa isn't a guarantee to enter any country. And it will make the visa holder think seriously about the risks of travel.

As you say, a visa doesn't guarantee entry anywhere, but if this is a particular issue with regard to Thailand, then airlines will surely not view with ecstatic joy the prospect of having to bear the cost of flying those denied entry at BKK or wherever back to their airport of origin, will they?

[moontang]

15 minutes ago, OJAS said:

If the word were to get about in the airline industry that, even those with valid visas were being denied entry into Thailand, the requirement to sign such disclaimers before being permitted to board flights to Thailand could conceivably become a matter of routine for all non-Thai nationals at airports of origin, regardless of their immigration status.

Was also grilled a little bit by AA in Chicago at the gate before boarding JAL, that was 2017..she was confused about the four year old visa, and the extensions, but took my word for it.  Seemed like the stories were circulating.  Impossible for them to be familiar with the countless possibilities for different visa scenarios.  Seems like airport employees are the lowest of the low nowadays.  They discovered a Somali war criminal working security at IAD.. probably couldn't get hired by fast food. 

Edited October 12, 2019 by moontang

[Martyp]

14 minutes ago, OJAS said:

As you say, a visa doesn't guarantee entry anywhere, but if this is a particular issue with regard to Thailand, then airlines will surely not view with ecstatic joy the prospect of having to bear the cost of flying those denied entry at BKK or wherever back to their airport of origin, will they?

Hence the prospect of airlines asking those flying to Thailand to sign a document saying they will pay for their way back.

[baboon]

26 minutes ago, Martyp said:

Of course. It is not the airline's responsibility. A visa isn't a guarantee to enter any country. And it will make the visa holder think seriously about the risks of travel.

Not a cast-iron guarantee, no. But the expectation is and should be that the chances of refusal of entry are slim indeed.

The airline flying you to Thailand could not absolve it's responsibility for ensuring their planes are airworthy by arguing that passengers know travelling carries risks.

[yogi100]

9 minutes ago, Martyp said:

Hence the prospect of airlines asking those flying to Thailand to sign a document saying they will pay for their way back.

 Will that be when you buy your ticket which would be fair enough as long as it's not in the small print. 

 

Or when you board the plane by which time you'd have forked out the money for the flight. Which could cause you to ask if they know something you're unaware of.

 

Not all people who travel to the Land Of Scams know about this latest obstacle.

[ChipButty]

35 minutes ago, moontang said:

Seems like airport employees are the lowest of the low nowadays.  They discovered a Somali war criminal working security at IAD.. probably couldn't get hired by fast food. 

Been going on a long time some years ago I had a problem at the old DM my flight from BKK to Dubai with a UK passport at check in the girl said you cannot board no visa, I dont need a visa to go to Dubai, yes you do she insisted ok get the manager to sort this out, she lost big face and the <deleted> behind me telling me to move away she already tell you, you need visa, you can <deleted> right off

[baboon]

7 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

Been going on a long time some years ago I had a problem at the old DM my flight from BKK to Dubai with a UK passport at check in the girl said you cannot board no visa, I dont need a visa to go to Dubai, yes you do she insisted ok get the manager to sort this out, she lost big face and the <deleted> behind me telling me to move away she already tell you, you need visa, you can <deleted> right off

You weren't pleased then, I gather...????

[Tayaout]

The grilling seems to be an Anglo-Saxon thing. I was only grilled coming back to my home country Canada and when visiting the UK and Australia. They are very strategic in their questioning and study your reactions. 

 

Sure I was grilled once in Thailand but they don't seems to listen or understand your reply. Their decision is already sealed before they start the talking. 

Edited October 12, 2019 by Tayaout

[OJAS]

28 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

The grilling seems to be an Anglo-Saxon thing. I was only grilled coming back to my home country Canada and when visiting the UK and Australia. They are very strategic in their questioning and study your reactions. 

 

Sure I was grilled once in Thailand but they don't seems to listen or understand your reply. Their decision is already sealed before they start the talking. 

Seeing as your home country is, I believe, France, you might be interested to learn that I received quite a grilling at CDG Airport last July before being permitted to board my return flight to BKK (after visiting my sister who lives in Paris), despite the existence of a re-entry permit in my (British) passport!

[ChipButty]

14 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 my (British) passport!

How dare they stop and question you with your British passport?

[OJAS]

Just now, ChipButty said:

How dare they stop and question you with your British passport?

Indeed!????