How to live with Isaan wife in respect of culture

[puchooay]

15 hours ago, Number 6 said:

I believe it's Mak-sii-da = guava = farang

 

Khmer the word is ba-rrang.

No. Incorrect. It is as I wrote.

[mlkik]

On 10/24/2019 at 10:33 PM, SteveK said:

Wrong again.

Paksida or Baksida is the Issan word for the fruit named farang or in English the fruit named guava 555 

 

However the word to describe the white foreigner most often used in Issan is still the word farang.

 

She was joking !

Edited October 27, 2019 by mlkik

[mlkik]

17 hours ago, Number 6 said:

I believe it's Mak-sii-da = guava = farang

 

Khmer the word is ba-rrang.

บักสีดา is spelt with bor bai mai as the leading consanant therefore it would be baksida.

Edited October 27, 2019 by mlkik

[puchooay]

31 minutes ago, mlkik said:

Paksida or Baksida is the Issan word for the fruit named farang or in English the fruit named guava 555 

 

However the word to describe the white foreigner most often used in Issan is still the word farang.

 

She was joking !

Those in Issan who speak Issan Lao will often use Baksida as a word for white foreigner. You only have to go to Roiet, Kalasin, Yasothon or some where similar and you will hear it.

 

 

[mlkik]

4 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Those in Issan who speak Issan Lao will often use Baksida as a word for white foreigner. You only have to go to Roiet, Kalasin, Yasothon or some where similar and you will hear it.

 

 

I live in a small village about 20 km from Udon Thani and am predominantly referred to as farang.

[HLover]

Just now, mlkik said:

I live in a small village about 20 km from Udon Thani and am predominantly referred to as farang.

What are they saying when they call me 'Khun Laaw"???

[mlkik]

5 minutes ago, HLover said:

What are they saying when they call me 'Khun Laaw"???

If it were คนลาว that would be Laos person but with your romanisation it is difficult to know. To translate accurately Thai or Issan script is needed.

[Briggsy]

15 minutes ago, HLover said:

What are they saying when they call me 'Khun Laaw"???

I suspect they may be calling you คนหล่อ, aka 'handsome man'. This normally precedes some sort of request, such as, "Buy me a d[r]ing[k]."

[mlkik]

6 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

I suspect they may be calling you คนหล่อ, aka 'handsome man'. This normally precedes some sort of request, such as, "Buy me a d[r]ing[k]."

Briggsy your thoughts are spot on.   คนหล่อ  a common complement and not specific to bars. Thai women often coment that we farang look better for are age than the Thai men of same age do.

คนลาว could be used as a complement if the person spoke Issan well and ate the food etc.

[Bangkokazy]

I've never met a woman that says anything I wanted to hear.
(apart from 'yes' now and again to keep it legal in some countries)

[puchooay]

2 hours ago, mlkik said:

Issan script is needed

 

2 hours ago, mlkik said:

person spoke Issan well and ate the food etc

Why your continual reference to "Issan" language?

 

There are several languages/dialects in Issan.

 

The correct reference would be "Issan Laos".

[mlkik]

19 minutes ago, puchooay said:

 

Why your continual reference to "Issan" language?

 

There are several languages/dialects in Issan.

 

The correct reference would be "Issan Laos".

Isan language

 

Isan or Northeastern Thai (Thai: ภาษาอีสาน, ภาษาไทยถิ่นตะวันออกเฉียงเหนือ, ภาษาไทยถิ่นอีสาน, ภาษาไทยอีสาน, ภาษาลาวอีสาน) is a group of Lao varieties spoken in the northern two-thirds of Isan in northeastern Thailand, as well as in adjacent portions of northern and eastern Thailand. It is the native language of the Isan people, spoken by 20 million or so people in Thailand,^[1] a third of the population of Thailand and 80 percent of all Lao speakers. The language remains the primary language in 88 percent of households in Isan.^[1] It is commonly used as a second, third, or fourth language by the region's other linguistic minorities, such as Northern Khmer, Khorat Thai, Kuy, Nyah Kur, and other Tai or Austronesian-speaking peoples. The Isan language has unofficial status in Thailand and can be differentiated as a whole from the Lao language of Laos by the increasing use of Thai grammar, vocabulary, and neologisms.^[4] Code-switching is common, depending on the context or situation. Adoption of Thai neologisms has also further differentiated Isan from standard Lao.^[5]

Edited October 27, 2019 by mlkik

[puchooay]

12 minutes ago, mlkik said:

Isan language

 

Isan or Northeastern Thai (Thai: ภาษาอีสาน, ภาษาไทยถิ่นตะวันออกเฉียงเหนือ, ภาษาไทยถิ่นอีสาน, ภาษาไทยอีสาน, ภาษาลาวอีสาน) is a group of Lao varieties spoken in the northern two-thirds of Isan in northeastern Thailand, as well as in adjacent portions of northern and eastern Thailand. It is the native language of the Isan people, spoken by 20 million or so people in Thailand,^[1] a third of the population of Thailand and 80 percent of all Lao speakers. The language remains the primary language in 88 percent of households in Isan.^[1] It is commonly used as a second, third, or fourth language by the region's other linguistic minorities, such as Northern Khmer, Khorat Thai, Kuy, Nyah Kur, and other Tai or Austronesian-speaking peoples. The Isan language has unofficial status in Thailand and can be differentiated as a whole from the Lao language of Laos by the increasing use of Thai grammar, vocabulary, and neologisms.^[4] Code-switching is common, depending on the context or situation. Adoption of Thai neologisms has also further differentiated Isan from standard Lao.^[5]

55555555555555555555555555555555555555555555.. Quoting Wikipedia in an attempt to prove correctness. So funny.

[mlkik]

4 minutes ago, puchooay said:

55555555555555555555555555555555555555555555.. Quoting Wikipedia in an attempt to prove correctness. So funny.

OK it is obvious  that your real identity is Martin Wheeler and you are the Mr Baksida 5555555

I surrender to your superior knowledge 5555 So funny.

[rumak]

1 hour ago, mlkik said:

OK it is obvious  that your real identity is Martin Wheeler and you are the Mr Baksida 5555555

I surrender to your superior knowledge 5555 So funny.

trying to prove something on TV  is like trying to convince a gecko to let go......

[mlkik]

12 minutes ago, rumak said:

trying to prove something on TV  is like trying to convince a gecko to let go......

 I agree and the my cock is bigger than your cock becomes a bit tiresome sometimes.

[puchooay]

On 10/27/2019 at 11:17 AM, rumak said:

trying to prove something on TV  is like trying to convince a gecko to let go......

Proving something on TV is actually quite easy.

 

You basically need 2 criteria : 1. You need to be correct. 2. You need a credible source to back your statement, not a website that can be written and edited by anyone and everyone, such as first hand knowledge.

 

 

[mlkik]

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

Proving something on TV is actually quite easy.

 

You basically need 2 criteria : 1. You need to be correct. 2. You need a credible source to back your statement, not a website that can be written and edited by anyone and everyone, such as first hand knowledge.

 

 

55555 so how come you have neither 555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555t5555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555

 

Do you even live in Issan ? 55555

Edited October 28, 2019 by mlkik

[mlkik]

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

Proving something on TV is actually quite easy.

 

You basically need 2 criteria : 1. You need to be correct. 2. You need a credible source to back your statement, not a website that can be written and edited by anyone and everyone, such as first hand knowledge.

 

 

ไม่เคยถูกเรียกว่าฝรั่ง 5555

[sunnyboy2018]

On 10/25/2019 at 7:47 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

G'day and welcome to Isaan.

 

I too married a charming lady from Isaan well over a decade again too, she is still the same charming lady I met back then, i.e. she has not changed one bit.

 

I will provide you with my rational or philosophy of how we survive here in Isaan, now this might not be for you or anyone else, but it fits me (us) like a glove, and this thing about culture, well, that's her culture, not mine or ours and I will explain as we go along.

 

First and foremost, you are marrying her, not her family, so keep them well out of the picture, respect that they are her family, but not yours, and as soon as you try to please anyone outside of your circle of love, you will eventually become unhappy as a marriage is between two people, no one elses business, regardless of culture, and both my wife and I do not believe in the culural thing, except when she has to adhere to it to keep her family happy, but not if it interferes in our circle of love.

 

I have seen too many guys falls by the roadside in their marriage to Thai ladies because they don't know how to put down barriers or boarders, discussion is key, openness is as equally important, if you both cannot get those down pat, then you will have issues, e.g. you both have to 1st understand and respect that you are getting married because you both love each other and want to have a happy life together, you DO NOT want added stresses in you relationship as you grow, i.e. her family is her family and she has a right to her family, at the same time she has to put up a STOP sign to all and any demands, if she can't do that, you are burnt toast.

 

Only invest as much as you are prepared to lose, and for crying out aloud, don't go throwing money around like a farang, you are not at liberty to share your hard earned cash because you're such a nice idiot. If you are going to buy gold and or give the family a Sin Sot, read a lot more here, and keep it to a limit, remember, once you set a benchmark, the only way direction from there is up, and DO NOT spoil her, because it will be your problem at the end of the day to live with.

 

Enjoy her, and keep her family at bay, smile, but remember, it's her family, not your family to support.

 

If she can't handle the above, she is not for you, in my opinion, i.e. unless you like the woman on top ? 

Wise words. I cringe at the idiots who build multiple houses for their inlaws. I would also like to remind people that issan is not all moribund villages.  The towns abd cities are great. Roi et...great fun and a beautiful city. A million times nice than Chang Mai. Nong Khai....Lovely with a lovely river view and both have night life. Thats only two. Village life in any country is dreadful usually but in Thailand especially hellish.

[gk10002000]

On 10/24/2019 at 7:56 PM, baansgr said:

Are guys still falling for and doing these nonsensical relationships up in the boonies...?  Unbelievable.

Many times the little head tells the big head what to do. 

[puchooay]

7 hours ago, mlkik said:

55555 so how come you have neither 555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555t5555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555

 

Do you even live in Issan ? 55555

Yes. I have lived in Issan for 21 years. I have lived amongst people who speak Issan Laos, Northern Khmer, Thai Korat and Gui ( often referred to as Suay). I speak some of all those languages. That is how I know there is more than one language in Issan and why one should reference Issan Laos and not Issan as a specific language.

 

Hence I do not need to refer to an unreliable source such as Wikipedia.

Edited October 28, 2019 by puchooay

[Gecko123]

A foreigner moving into a small village is actually in a pretty vulnerable position. Many people don't realize this, but there is often next to no inbound migration into many small towns and villages. It's all outbound migration driven by urbanization and the search for employment and educational opportunities. For example, in the small village I have lived in for 16 years, I can't think of a single adult individual who has relocated here except for a tiny handful of people who maybe grew up here, and maybe returned to the village after they stopped working, but even cases like these are few and far between. As a result, everyone who lives there has a lifelong relationship with everybody else, while the newly arrived foreigner doesn't know a single person. You have no idea who is related to whom, who is friends with who, who you can confide in, who is trustworthy, who you should steer away from. Even if there happens to be other foreigners in the vicinity, all of them are married to Thai women who are almost always the foreigner's main confidant. In other words, anything you tell to a foreigner is likely to be repeated immediately to his wife, and God only knows who she in turn might repeat it to. Before you know it everyone in town knows your personal business. And by the way, it won't be long before everybody knows your personal business. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

The initial euphoria of moving to a new village does dissipate, sometimes surprisingly rapidly. The excited tittering and finger pointing of kindergarteners when they spot your approach does not last forever. Prices in the grocery store you frequent can suddenly increase raising suspicions that you might be being overcharged. Unkind remarks can make their way back to you. Yes, there is a peaceful rhythm to rural life which can be appealing. But it's important to recognize going in that there are some harsh realities as well, not the least of which is poverty and the vicissitudes of farm life. It is not a 'Andy of Mayberry' or 'Farmer in the Dell' existence, and trying to romanticize life in rural Thailand, in my opinion, is a mistake.

 

The biggest thing I want the OP to know is that in the girlfriend/new wife's home village you are extremely vulnerable to being manipulated. You have virtually no way to independently verify what you are being told is going on around you. "People are laughing at my parents because you haven't married me yet. My parents lose a lot of face because sin sot so low. People say you are just use me, screw me, have no intention marry me. People don't think you have any money. They say you Cheap Charlie. Laugh at me. People ask why Thai lady with farang husband only ride around on a Honda Wave. People say other farang with Thai wife drive Fortuner SUV.'

 

If a prospective wife with ulterior motives thinks that a huge windfall is right around the corner, feigning a love interest for a few years is a small investment in time. Just think about what you might do if you earned 10K a month and thought that if you played your cards right, you might soon be reaping millions of baht in property? And that not only goes for the extended family anticipating ripple benefits, but it can even extend to the wider village. The wife has the power to keep everyone in town, especially shopkeepers and vendors, in line because they know she controls the purse strings, or at least has influence over where Mr Money Bags spends money. So it's not that difficult to orchestrate an ever-smiling, ever-good-natured welcoming committee if the incentives are there. Without any language skills, your ability to pick up on much of this is going to be severely impaired: for all practical purposes you are going to be like Jake Sully on Pandora.

 

The truth is that in the vast majority of cases, the foreign guy's only source of information about his girlfriend is his girlfriend. Nine times out of ten, the guy knows next to nothing about her background or history, whether it be medical, educational, employment, marital, sexual, credit (debts), or criminal, or her reputation in the village. No one is going to pull a foreign guy aside and give him a heads up about his love interest's sordid past. They're way too fearful that you'll only turn around and snitch on them back to her. After you break up with her and leave town, they'll have to contend with her wrath forever, so why take the risk? I would pay very close attention to how well the girlfriend is liked and respected in the village and be alert for any clues that she isn't well liked or respected. I would also pay attention to who the girlfriend is friends with in town and whether you think they are likeable and solid individuals. Do her friends seem wholesome with well-cared for kids, or do they seem a little shady with neglected kids? I would also try to make a family tree diagram to find out exactly who is in the extended family, find out who and where all the siblings, cousins, aunts and uncles are, and try and meet them to get a better feel for the family. You could learn a lot from that exercise.

 

The OP said a few pages back 'I've known this girl for 3 1/2 years, isn't that enough?' My answer would be: 'Maybe yes, maybe no.' Have you been living with her this whole time, or has it been a long distance relationship, characterized by long giggly Skype sessions where nothing really gets said because of the language barrier? Were your visits to see her periodic honeymoon-type trips to island destinations where you've been staying in top-end hotels and eating in fancy restaurants? Is there a big age difference between you and her? To what extent have you given this girl the idea that you: (a) have a lot of money, (b) are willing to pay a large sin sot, or (c) have expressed a willingness to spend money on land, real estate, farm equipment, personal autos, or give her a generous personal allowance after you marry? I expect the OP isn't particularly eager to share candid answers to these prying questions, which I totally understand, but if the answer to any of these questions is affirmative, you may have put yourself at risk of being duped despite the length of time you say you have already been together.

 

It used to be that out in the boonies you could sashay down to the local school and get hired on the spot as an English teacher. Teaching was an excellent way to make inroads into and gain status in the community. I taught for years in my village, mostly on a part time basis, but these days, with all the immigration crackdowns, I'm scared to even set foot on the school grounds out of fear of getting deported, and I routinely turn down requests for private tutoring for similar reasons. Teaching used to be a good way to become known and build goodwill in the village, but that avenue really isn't open to foreigners anymore, unless you manage to get a work permit, which few schools are willing to help you apply for. Which means that informal opportunites to earn income are pretty limited in rural Thailand, unless of course you're talking about some digital nomad option.

 

While I actually like the slow pace of village life, and have rarely suffered boredom in 16 years here, there are limits in terms of activities here.  I have managed to piece together a fairly satisfying patchwork of activities like bicycle riding, gardening, language study, Thai cooking, etc. Mental stimulation can come from e-books, the internet, Netflix, cable TV, travel, but there are limits to this. You can also learn to raise fighting roosters, how to build a chicken coop, forage for edibles, how to make charcoal, rebuild a tractor engine, birdwatch, play with your pets, become an expert on Thai botany. Are you starting to understand what I meant when I said there are limits in the mental stimulation department?

 

While we're on the subject of learning languages, I've said it before and I'll say it again: I've never known a single foreigner to move to a small village and pick up the language from a cold start. It just doesn't happen. If the OP thinks a small village is going to provide him with a "total immersion" language study environment, that's not really how it works. Few villagers have either the time, patience or teaching skill to help a novice language student learn the basics of the alphabet, pronunciation rules or grammar. Villagers in remote areas often talk in very rustic vernacular and incorporate regional dialects into their speech which can be quite confusing to a novice student, and study resources geared to a non-native student won't be of much use as a platform for a Thai villager trying to teach the language. Put simply, the thought of a foreigner moving to a remote village with zero Thai language skills, sends a shiver of concern up my spine. Someone wants to give it a shot, so be it, but I personally think the risks of social isolation, and concomitant risks of alcoholism and depression should be carefully considered before taking the leap.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Gecko123

[linno2]

On 10/24/2019 at 9:04 PM, mlkik said:

Issan is filthy! I have been for walks in the beautiful countryside only to see discarded rubbish every 6 feet.

Many people just throw their litter in the garden and it mounts up and looks so bad.

Not just Issan though,when I lived in Samutprakarn they were as bad with the litter.

One problem in many rural villages is that there is no rubbish collection at all - hence the common smell of burning plastic.  Also I remember a time in Australia when the roads were littered with trash - it took a health fine, lots of media and about 10 years to change the situation.  Trash has some value when a guy comes around on his motorcycle with side car and scales to take it away in exchange for a few Thai Baht.  The best I have been able to achieve is some heavy duty black bin liners on frames for most of it - but not the broken fans, 3 legged plastic chairs and other larger items.

[mlkik]

19 minutes ago, linno2 said:

One problem in many rural villages is that there is no rubbish collection at all - hence the common smell of burning plastic.  Also I remember a time in Australia when the roads were littered with trash - it took a health fine, lots of media and about 10 years to change the situation.  Trash has some value when a guy comes around on his motorcycle with side car and scales to take it away in exchange for a few Thai Baht.  The best I have been able to achieve is some heavy duty black bin liners on frames for most of it - but not the broken fans, 3 legged plastic chairs and other larger items.

We do have a weekly bin lorry collection and we have the black round rubber bins. The problem is many do not bother with putting stuff in the bin. Why would you when you can just chuck it on the floor 555.

We also have a collection of broke fans,sacks of beer and plastic bottles. Cardboard ,old water pump ,old water pipes etc.

Edited October 30, 2019 by mlkik

[Chazar]

On 10/24/2019 at 3:45 PM, Elzear said:

You farang husbands married to an Isaan woman, please tell me of your experiences and above all your advices.

Married  one whose  parents were  both dead, avoided a  lot  of  problems.........other than that, what I say goes! ha!

[Olmate]

7 minutes ago, Chazar said:

Married  one whose  parents were  both dead, avoided a  lot  of  problems.........other than that, what I say goes! ha!

Must be fun for you! Ha!

[sawadeeken]

I have about 40 years experience in Thailand and a 'couple Thai wives'... I've learned.....

I have read many replies on Here............... I think you are the 'driver seat of this vehicle' (you got the money) (and you are the driver) NEVER GIVE UP THAT (Driver seat) POSITION.........

IF YOU LOVE THEM THEN DO ALL YOU CAN...... BUT be careful of the 'educational level' of those making demands as to your spending money that is not theirs....... I have a good history of dealing with ''ISSAN/Thai' family who know nothing about 'saving' money..... Only 'Spending' it.......

YOU are the MOST experienced' (For sure)  and it is YOUR money...... YOU are the one to be in charge of how it is done (spent)......... all kindnesses considered.......

DON'T BE LAZY........ on your own behalf..... MAITAIN YOURSELF IN THE 'DRIVERS SEAT'......

All Issan ladies will love you for improving their life....... EVEN when It falls short of their families expectations....... and remember.... TIME IS ON YOUR SIDE...... and will show that you are 'of value as a 'family member'............. SO START SLOW..............

MAIN MESSAGE..............'YOU' keep control of the 'Drivers Seat'....... (They may try to take it away) ----- BUT YOU know who has experience to maintain the 'Driver Seat'..........

Don't let 'blind love' ruin your relationship...... Use 'your own good judgement' and have a good relationship,  with her and family, or IF NECESSARY..... act (cautiously) like you are backing out..... I bet you 'win'....... WIN..... WIN......

IT NOT..... AFTER ALMOST 40 YEARS EXPERIENCE IN THAILND.......... Go back to where you found her and find another like her....... (she won't want you to do that)

ME PERSONALLY, I have a Thai wife in the USA and a 'Mia-noi' in Thailand.... Both for 23 years.....and a few temporary ladies in between....... I KNOW Thailand... There are a multitude of Thai ladies just waiting for a good foreign men.....

Any further Quetions just Persona;l mail to me...........

I built a home in the NE of Thailand for a loveable girl who needs a man with a small income.... to take care of her and now two lovely daughters..... If a guy with sights of living in Thailand with a girl who just wants to be 'taken care of' and she already has a home in the 'countryside'.... Send me a private mail.... I like her a lot but have a wife in the USA and cannot help her permanently....

IN ANY CASE for this OP....... The one who can afford the car,,,,, KEEP CONTROL of the Drivers seat.... OR afterward............ be sorry......... CRY ALOT......

IF Your car...... YOU be the driver.......... If you give up the driver position....... anything can happen......

[Elzear]

On 10/30/2019 at 3:19 PM, sawadeeken said:

I have about 40 years experience in Thailand and a 'couple Thai wives'... I've learned.....

I have read many replies on Here............... I think you are the 'driver seat of this vehicle' (you got the money) (and you are the driver) NEVER GIVE UP THAT (Driver seat) POSITION.........

IF YOU LOVE THEM THEN DO ALL YOU CAN...... BUT be careful of the 'educational level' of those making demands as to your spending money that is not theirs....... I have a good history of dealing with ''ISSAN/Thai' family who know nothing about 'saving' money..... Only 'Spending' it.......

YOU are the MOST experienced' (For sure)  and it is YOUR money...... YOU are the one to be in charge of how it is done (spent)......... all kindnesses considered.......

DON'T BE LAZY........ on your own behalf..... MAITAIN YOURSELF IN THE 'DRIVERS SEAT'......

All Issan ladies will love you for improving their life....... EVEN when It falls short of their families expectations....... and remember.... TIME IS ON YOUR SIDE...... and will show that you are 'of value as a 'family member'............. SO START SLOW..............

MAIN MESSAGE..............'YOU' keep control of the 'Drivers Seat'....... (They may try to take it away) ----- BUT YOU know who has experience to maintain the 'Driver Seat'..........

Don't let 'blind love' ruin your relationship...... Use 'your own good judgement' and have a good relationship,  with her and family, or IF NECESSARY..... act (cautiously) like you are backing out..... I bet you 'win'....... WIN..... WIN......

IT NOT..... AFTER ALMOST 40 YEARS EXPERIENCE IN THAILND.......... Go back to where you found her and find another like her....... (she won't want you to do that)

ME PERSONALLY, I have a Thai wife in the USA and a 'Mia-noi' in Thailand.... Both for 23 years.....and a few temporary ladies in between....... I KNOW Thailand... There are a multitude of Thai ladies just waiting for a good foreign men.....

Any further Quetions just Persona;l mail to me...........

I built a home in the NE of Thailand for a loveable girl who needs a man with a small income.... to take care of her and now two lovely daughters..... If a guy with sights of living in Thailand with a girl who just wants to be 'taken care of' and she already has a home in the 'countryside'.... Send me a private mail.... I like her a lot but have a wife in the USA and cannot help her permanently....

IN ANY CASE for this OP....... The one who can afford the car,,,,, KEEP CONTROL of the Drivers seat.... OR afterward............ be sorry......... CRY ALOT......

IF Your car...... YOU be the driver.......... If you give up the driver position....... anything can happen......

I liked that, Sawadeeken..

Thank you for the hindsight. I don’t have a car.. she has. But I got the cheque book.. 

Where in the NE is she ? I am in Phon Charoen. Cheers

[sawadeeken]

21 hours ago, Elzear said:

I liked that, Sawadeeken..

Thank you for the hindsight. I don’t have a car.. she has. But I got the cheque book.. 

Where in the NE is she ? I am in Phon Charoen. Cheers

She is in Kantharalak..... Sisaket province...... Not more than an hour by car from UBON....

She is a lovely lady 'with a deformed foot only'..... BUT 'fully' able for cooking, cleaning, etc....

I'd love for her to find a 'good man'....... NOT A 'LEACH'...... She has had a few alreadey.......