Jomtien Condo Owners Sue For Sea View

[Binkie]

Dear Mark--

Perhaps you can answer the following questions in as direct a manner as possible:

1. Are you in any way professionally associated with Indochine Asset Management or any other development company?
   
2. If you are so associated, have you ever declared that in any of your postings on this website?
   
3. If you have not declared that association, are you being completely straightforward when you submit your opinions?
   
4. If you are not being completely straighforward, is that a reflection on your professionalism and integrity?
   
5. If it is a reflection on your professionalism and integrity, should anyone have faith dealing with you or your company?
   

Just asking.

Please go ahead and answer these poignant questions if you will. I am waiting with baited breath.

It is always nice and polite to announce if you have any agenda, that we should know. Thanks in advance of your response.

[marekm1]

Dear Mark--

Perhaps you can answer the following questions in as direct a manner as possible:

1. Are you in any way professionally associated with Indochine Asset Management or any other development company?
   
2. If you are so associated, have you ever declared that in any of your postings on this website?
   
3. If you have not declared that association, are you being completely straightforward when you submit your opinions?
   
4. If you are not being completely straighforward, is that a reflection on your professionalism and integrity?
   
5. If it is a reflection on your professionalism and integrity, should anyone have faith dealing with you or your company?
   

Just asking.

Please go ahead and answer these poignant questions if you will. I am waiting with baited breath.

It is always nice and polite to announce if you have any agenda, that we should know. Thanks in advance of your response.

It is obvious that Mark whatever, has no idea what he was talking about.

So don’t ask him any question as he hasn’t got any answer.

He is probably local real estate agent pushing the units for sale.

[Binkie]

Dear Mark--

Perhaps you can answer the following questions in as direct a manner as possible:

1. Are you in any way professionally associated with Indochine Asset Management or any other development company?
   
2. If you are so associated, have you ever declared that in any of your postings on this website?
   
3. If you have not declared that association, are you being completely straightforward when you submit your opinions?
   
4. If you are not being completely straighforward, is that a reflection on your professionalism and integrity?
   
5. If it is a reflection on your professionalism and integrity, should anyone have faith dealing with you or your company?
   

Just asking.

Please go ahead and answer these poignant questions if you will. I am waiting with baited breath.

It is always nice and polite to announce if you have any agenda, that we should know. Thanks in advance of your response.

It is obvious that Mark whatever, has no idea what he was talking about.

So don’t ask him any question as he hasn’t got any answer.

He is probably local real estate agent pushing the units for sale.

Well MarkBowling who are you are you an agent as has been suggested or are you a buyer in VT7 or Regatta. If your a buyer in Regatta, maybe you could PM me as this was my original interest in this thread.

Whatever you are or whatever your interest vested or otherwise. Be open and you will be a lot better received. Don't be a troll!!

[OhdLover]

VT7 will be built.

Keep this posting in mind and tell me within 2 years if I was right or not.....

Yes, you are right but HOW HIGH!!!

Exactly as planned, no doubt about that. There's just a delay.

And the JC-people shouldn't be surprised if VT7 will go to court afterwards to claim the loss of time and other costs.

It's a very risky trial going on now for the farangs who are used to the laws in their own countries.

I live in The Netherlands, and rules and laws are quite strict here, but even here the money wins it from the rules.

I've seen plenty of examples of buildings that were built where 1 or more laws should have prevented it.

Big building companies have more power and influence than you can imagine.

I would never even think of trying to stop VT7, even if I was the owner of a condo in JC.

It's quite naive to think that Thailand is a country of laws. If you live in Thailand long enough, you know that is not true. There are laws, but money can buy everything.

So, once again, VT7 will be there, 27 floors, maybe 2010 instead of 2009.

[Abrak]

I hate to butt into this debate with a very basic question (the answer to which may well be somewhere within this very thread).

Is VT7 being developed by the same VT that is doing Ocean Tower and the villas or is it the Thai company that develops the lower end condos?

[Irene]

VT7 will be built.

Keep this posting in mind and tell me within 2 years if I was right or not.....

Yes, you are right but HOW HIGH!!!

Exactly as planned, no doubt about that. There's just a delay.

And the JC-people shouldn't be surprised if VT7 will go to court afterwards to claim the loss of time and other costs.

It's a very risky trial going on now for the farangs who are used to the laws in their own countries.

I live in The Netherlands, and rules and laws are quite strict here, but even here the money wins it from the rules.

I've seen plenty of examples of buildings that were built where 1 or more laws should have prevented it.

Big building companies have more power and influence than you can imagine.

I would never even think of trying to stop VT7, even if I was the owner of a condo in JC.

It's quite naive to think that Thailand is a country of laws. If you live in Thailand long enough, you know that is not true. There are laws, but money can buy everything.

So, once again, VT7 will be there, 27 floors, maybe 2010 instead of 2009.

OhdLover,

The naivety is on your part. Not only that, you are so cynical in believing that money can buy everything. Sometimes, it cannot buy professional pride of our court. The Court's injunction as granted at the request of stopvt7, a farang, is an obvious respect for the rule of law and there are so many cases supporting this contention. Currently, there is one god-father who is on the run because of the court proceedings and one ex-minister of health is now in prison.

I do not venture to guess what would be the final outcome but the todate outcome is quite encouraging to support the existence of rules of law and small investors are protected irrespective of his nationality.

[OhdLover]

OhdLover,

The naivety is on your part. Not only that, you are so cynical in believing that money can buy everything. Sometimes, it cannot buy professional pride of our court. The Court's injunction as granted at the request of stopvt7, a farang, is an obvious respect for the rule of law and there are so many cases supporting this contention. Currently, there is one god-father who is on the run because of the court proceedings and one ex-minister of health is now in prison.

I do not venture to guess what would be the final outcome but the todate outcome is quite encouraging to support the existence of rules of law and small investors are protected irrespective of his nationality.

As I stated earlier, tell me in 2 years (or much earlier) whether I was right or not.

My info is not based on what I wrote earlier, and I know this sounds like "yeah, right"...

Just wait and see.

[ThaiBob]

I hate to butt into this debate with a very basic question (the answer to which may well be somewhere within this very thread).

Is VT7 being developed by the same VT that is doing Ocean Tower and the villas or is it the Thai company that develops the lower end condos?

"Is VT7 being developed by the same VT that is doing Ocean Tower and the villas".....No

"or is it the Thai company that develops the lower end condos?"....Yes

[Irene]

OhdLover,

The naivety is on your part. Not only that, you are so cynical in believing that money can buy everything. Sometimes, it cannot buy professional pride of our court. The Court's injunction as granted at the request of stopvt7, a farang, is an obvious respect for the rule of law and there are so many cases supporting this contention. Currently, there is one god-father who is on the run because of the court proceedings and one ex-minister of health is now in prison.

I do not venture to guess what would be the final outcome but the todate outcome is quite encouraging to support the existence of rules of law and small investors are protected irrespective of his nationality.

As I stated earlier, tell me in 2 years (or much earlier) whether I was right or not.

My info is not based on what I wrote earlier, and I know this sounds like "yeah, right"...

Just wait and see.

OhdLover,

We live in a rational world and this website is full of logics. So just tell us your reasons why you should be right in two-year time. Don't use the tactic of those Indian fortune-teller of putting you in suspense first then ask for money before he tells you the prophesy.

[stopvt7]

Big building companies have more power and influence than you can imagine.

I come from a contractor family and understand the relationship between builders and city hall! I’m sure this is the same same but different! Big builder don’t have influence, their liked for the tea parties.

But, this case is in Administrative Court who judge are hand pick by the palace and most from foreign educated lawyer. Many these judges are from families with loyalty to the palace. The 5 judges who discuss the case then 3 vote on the out come, so you telling me that VT have bought 4 judges? They would have to give enough money for life. Because in such a black and white issue (Issue 9: No building over 14 meters high be built until it 200 meters from high tide) the questionable judges would be removed and a disgrace to their families.

The injunction was signed by 3 judges and approved and signed by the Chief Judge of Administrative Court. So, you’re saying that VT7 has power and influence over all these judges and the palace to win the case?

The Administrative Court as establish by the King of Thailand in 1999 to fight questionable government action. This legal case was made for this court!

[Sapillyder]

PRESS RELEASE

On May 22^nd, 2007, the co-owners of Jomtien Condotel and Village filed a formal legal request with the Mayor of Pattaya City, to halt the construction of an eight floor building directly in front of their property on Dongtan Beach, Jomtien.

The planned project by Indochine Asset Management Co. Ltd, has already received a building permit from the City and construction is slated to begin June 1^st, 2007

The co-owners have filed a “Request for justice in the building permit appeal” on the following grounds;

1. Lack of arrangements made for the electrical, lighting, safety, drainage and waste-water systems, which could adversely affect those living nearby.

2. Lack of compliance with Ministerial Regulations pursuant to the Buildings Control Act, regarding safety of excavations near roads and other residences.

3. Lack of compliance with Ministerial Regulations pursuant to the Buildings Control Act, concerning the stipulated area of 200 meters forbidding construction of buildings over 14 m. in height.

4. Lack of compliance with other Ministerial Regulations relating to construction of buildings adjacent to narrow private roads.

5. Lack of an adequate analysis of the building’s impact on the surrounding environment.

Over 200 co-owners have signed a petition objecting to the development as proposed. They plan to approach the Chonburi Land Office and the Environmental Investigation Agency in Bangkok. The newly elected Management Committees have been instructed to seek justice in the Administrative Court if necessary.

[stopvt7]

PRESS RELEASE

On May 22^nd, 2007, the co-owners of Jomtien Condotel and Village filed a formal legal request with the Mayor of Pattaya City, to halt the construction of an eight floor building directly in front of their property on Dongtan Beach, Jomtien.

The planned project by Indochine Asset Management Co. Ltd, has already received a building permit from the City and construction is slated to begin June 1^st, 2007

The co-owners have filed a "Request for justice in the building permit appeal" on the following grounds;

1. Lack of arrangements made for the electrical, lighting, safety, drainage and waste-water systems, which could adversely affect those living nearby.

2. Lack of compliance with Ministerial Regulations pursuant to the Buildings Control Act, regarding safety of excavations near roads and other residences.

3. Lack of compliance with Ministerial Regulations pursuant to the Buildings Control Act, concerning the stipulated area of 200 meters forbidding construction of buildings over 14 m. in height.

4. Lack of compliance with other Ministerial Regulations relating to construction of buildings adjacent to narrow private roads.

5. Lack of an adequate analysis of the building's impact on the surrounding environment.

Over 200 co-owners have signed a petition objecting to the development as proposed. They plan to approach the Chonburi Land Office and the Environmental Investigation Agency in Bangkok. The newly elected Management Committees have been instructed to seek justice in the Administrative Court if necessary.

Sapillyder; GOOD GOING!

Her a other person who understands! “Thailand is a country of laws”.

[Barryz]

Strange this! All along, whilst reading this thread I'd got the impression that construction of the illegal building had actually started. I now get the impression that the building is still in the planning stage. No construction work has actually been carried out. Is this the case?

If it is the case, then that throws a different light on the issue.

[stopvt7]

Strange this! All along, whilst reading this thread I'd got the impression that construction of the illegal building had actually started. I now get the impression that the building is still in the planning stage. No construction work has actually been carried out. Is this the case?

If it is the case, then that throws a different light on the issue.

Its pass the planning stage! I walk by this land and the builder has cleared the land. They received a question able building permit! To get a building permit you must give a copy set of your plans. They announce that construction will stare in June.

It’s good the builder learns about more then 200 co-owners of Jomtien Condotel and Village are working together to protect their legal right under Thai law. Before the builder invests a lot of money in a building witch the Admin Court not allowed build.

[Binkie]

Strange this! All along, whilst reading this thread I'd got the impression that construction of the illegal building had actually started. I now get the impression that the building is still in the planning stage. No construction work has actually been carried out. Is this the case?

If it is the case, then that throws a different light on the issue.

Its pass the planning stage! I walk by this land and the builder has cleared the land. They received a question able building permit! To get a building permit you must give a copy set of your plans. They announce that construction will stare in June.

It’s good the builder learns about more then 200 co-owners of Jomtien Condotel and Village are working together to protect their legal right under Thai law. Before the builder invests a lot of money in a building witch the Admin Court not allowed build.

You talk about these 200 peoples rights under Thai Law. What are their rights?

The building so far as I can see is not even going to be an eyesore. From all that I have seen it will improve the area.

Once again, I have no vested interest in this only a marginal interest in buying a unit in that area I was looking at a corner unit in JCV however that was sold, shame.

I honestly cannot see VT7 being stopped completely.

Once again I wish you would stop gloating for a moment and remember where you are. Nothing is decided until the final ruling comes in.

remember carpe canem.

[Barryz]

Its pass the planning stage! I walk by this land and the builder has cleared the land.

In that case, I think your chances of having the development stopped ar at least amended are improved. Clearing land is no more that the first step in construction. Nothing yet to pull down. You've nipped it in the bud, so to speak.

[stopvt7]

Binkie Please don’t mix up confidence with gloating!

I’m sure VT7 will not be built over 14 meters high! I have read much about the Thai legal system, other then some of the criminal system, I understand much has change and it’s a fairly good legal system. Maybe better then where you come from?

[Tammi]

Good for Jomthien Condotel! Now what will Grand Condo do? Will Grand Condo apply to the Admin Court to have VT5 cut back to 200 meters from the seashore?

[lookat]

Good for Jomthien Condotel! Now what will Grand Condo do? Will Grand Condo apply to the Admin Court to have VT5 cut back to 200 meters from the seashore?

Good move! The co-owners at Jomthien Condotel and Village acted courageously!

Now what is going on with the co–owners at the Sea Breeze? Are their any co-owners at the Sea Breeze with balls to take action against North Point? I heard their condo manager has a fatter bank account. Was he hired to keep their co-owners misinformed?

[OhdLover]

OhdLover,

We live in a rational world and this website is full of logics. So just tell us your reasons why you should be right in two-year time. Don't use the tactic of those Indian fortune-teller of putting you in suspense first then ask for money before he tells you the prophesy.

The website is full logics... I'll leave that for your account.

The 2 years is just a period I mentioned, you might as well tell me in a few months.

Once again I cannot tell you about my sources, so I don't blame you for questioning my contributions.

I wouldn't believe me either.

[Irene]

OhdLover,

We live in a rational world and this website is full of logics. So just tell us your reasons why you should be right in two-year time. Don't use the tactic of those Indian fortune-teller of putting you in suspense first then ask for money before he tells you the prophesy.

The website is full logics... I'll leave that for your account.

The 2 years is just a period I mentioned, you might as well tell me in a few months.

Once again I cannot tell you about my sources, so I don't blame you for questioning my contributions.

I wouldn't believe me either.

OhdLover,

We don't want to know your sources. We just want to know your logics of why vt7 will rise otherwise we think your statement is wasting our time to read.

[Artisan]

It was then that the residents were told that there is a law that was recognized since 1994, which states that only buildings of 14 meters in height are allowed to be built at 200 meters from mean sea level, subsequent buildings to rise in height only at a 45 degree angle.

Hello stopvt7. This apparent addendum to the original law of 1978 interests me greatly, as a Norwegian developer has a plan to build a project called "The Beach" on Jomtien Beach Road. The project will consist of a shopping mall, a multi-floored carpark, an hotel and a condo of more than 60 floors. The developer says that marketing of the properties will start next month and construction will start January 2008. The website link to this project is:

The Beach, Jomtien

Do you know where I can find information or, better still, confirmation of this addendum to the law? Thanks for your help.

[borracho]

I was wandering around in VT5 a couple of months or so ago and they seemed to be putting in foundations for VT7.

The Viewtalay company has one of the best tract records in Pattaya. They are an extremely well connected outfit.

I'd say I't would be a bad bet to count them out on the VT7 project.

I looked at the plans. It will be the best of them all. It will get built. And Jomtien condohotel owners will continue to have conniptions.

[stopvt7]

It was then that the residents were told that there is a law that was recognized since 1994, which states that only buildings of 14 meters in height are allowed to be built at 200 meters from mean sea level, subsequent buildings to rise in height only at a 45 degree angle.

Hello stopvt7. This apparent addendum to the original law of 1978 interests me greatly, as a Norwegian developer has a plan to build a project called "The Beach" on Jomtien Beach Road. The project will consist of a shopping mall, a multi-floored carpark, an hotel and a condo of more than 60 floors. The developer says that marketing of the properties will start next month and construction will start January 2008. The website link to this project is: http://www.the-beach.no/sitemap.php

Do you know where I can find information or, better still, confirmation of this addendum to the law? Thanks for your help.

I have a copy on issue 9 which set the limit of 14 meters in height are allowed to be built at 200 meters from sea level. I heard my lawyer talk about the 45 degree angle but I don’t have any info on issue? The 45 degee issue didn’t effect case against VT7?

You be smart to call Asia LawWorks Co., Ltd and talk with Markus Klemm.

[stopvt7]

I was wandering around in VT5 a couple of months or so ago and they seemed to be putting in foundations for VT7.

The Viewtalay company has one of the best tract records in Pattaya. They are an extremely well connected outfit.

I'd say I't would be a bad bet to count them out on the VT7 project.

I looked at the plans. It will be the best of them all. It will get built. And Jomtien condohotel owners will continue to have conniptions.

What tract record is that? Tea parties or ogle buildings? I you knew anything about construction you be signing a different tune.

Their connections are local! Thet been in the building business since 1999 and VT7 is their 6 project in 8 years. All their projects are cereal boxes on their side.

I talked with buyers who were glade to sell and get out of VT project. So don’t blow smoke.

[brooklynbridge]

I was wandering around in VT5 a couple of months or so ago and they seemed to be putting in foundations for VT7.

The Viewtalay company has one of the best tract records in Pattaya. They are an extremely well connected outfit.

I'd say I't would be a bad bet to count them out on the VT7 project.

I looked at the plans. It will be the best of them all. It will get built. And Jomtien condohotel owners will continue to have conniptions.

What tract record is that? Tea parties or ogle buildings? I you knew anything about construction you be signing a different tune.

Their connections are local! Thet been in the building business since 1999 and VT7 is their 6 project in 8 years. All their projects are cereal boxes on their side.

I talked with buyers who were glade to sell and get out of VT project. So don't blow smoke.

Do you mean "track record"? If you deliberately wrote "tract record", take credit for a nice play on words.

[stopvt7]

brooklynbridge: Do you mean "track record"? If you deliberately wrote "tract record", take credit for a nice play on words.

"Tract record" for the ticky-tacky boxes VT7 builds!

ticky-tacky: sleazy or shoddy material used especially in the construction of look-alike tract houses; also : something built of ticky-tacky; adjective : of an uninspired or monotonous sameness

[OhdLover]

brooklynbridge: Do you mean "track record"? If you deliberately wrote "tract record", take credit for a nice play on words.

"Tract record" for the ticky-tacky boxes VT7 builds!

ticky-tacky: sleazy or shoddy material used especially in the construction of look-alike tract houses; also : something built of ticky-tacky; adjective : of an uninspired or monotonous sameness

stopvt, you are obviously and logically driven by your wish to keep them from building (the wish is the father of the thought). But being in a situation like that will do your objectivity no good. So I am afraid the smoke is on your

side.....

[Tammi]

Guys, let's just stay with the fundamentals which are that on Jomthien Complex going to the Admin Court the Court gave an injunction that VT stop work on VT7 probably because the Law says that nothing over 14 metres can be built within 200 metres of the seashore (probably the high tide mark).

Hua Hin City has stopped issuing permits for construction over 14 metres within the 200m until the decision is made by the Admin Court on VT7.

Jomthien Condotel has taken its case to Pattaya City Hall to try to stop Indochine starting work on Regatta which is planned to be 8 storey and over 14 m and is within 200 m from the seashore. I suppose that if City Hall says that Indochine can go ahead with Regatta that Jomthien Condotel will also go to the Admin Court.

So we just all now have to wait for the Admin Court's decision on VT7 and City Hall's decision on Regatta.

Hua Hin were sensible in deciding to stop issuing permits until Admin Court's decision.

We can argy-bargy back and fore but it means nothing and usually doesn't sound nice or sensible.

[Artisan]

......Guys, let's just stay with the fundamentals which are that on Jomthien Complex going to the Admin Court the Court gave an injunction that VT stop work on VT7 probably because the Law says that nothing over 14 metres can be built within 200 metres of the seashore (probably the high tide mark).........

Hi Tammi. I know that I'm risking sounding pedantic but the construction of VT7 has been stopped temporarily. I know that you are perfectly aware of that but I feel that you should apply some precision to your comment. It was not a conclusive verdict.....and that's one of the "fundamentals" in the issue.

I'm just wondering on what available evidence you define "seashore" as being the high tide mark? There is no probability about it......the average mid-water mark is used internationally as the cartographic standard, both land and maritime....and that's how it's defined in Thailand also, judicially, militarily or whatever. Yet another "fundamental".