Need Help With Laptop Problem

[PattayaDavid]

I have a IBM T40p 1.6Ghz 1G memory Pentium M laptop that I bought back in October 2003. Over the course of the past year, maybe longer, occasionally my laptop would just suddenly shutdown. The CPU would max out at 100%, the fan would come on and seconds later, it would just shutdown. When I attempt a restart, it would perform a normal start, no safe mode, almost as if it had saved all of my data before shutting itself down because no data would be lost, even if I was in the middle of writing an email or word document.

Now it is happening more and more often. I used to use Norton Internet Security 2005 until it expired then I switched over to Zone Alarm Pro version 6.0, 6.5. I don't think the sudden shutdowns began until well after the switch to Zone Alarm, but thought I would mention it anyway. Sometimes it will go for weeks without shutting down, but over the course of yesterday and today, my laptop has shutdown more than 15 times. It took me at least 5 attempts to open my internet browser and Microsoft Outlook today. Each of the 4 previous attempts resulted in uncommanded shutdown partially through the loading. Sometimes, it will shutdown even before Windows begins loading, sometimes during the Windows loading and almost anytime thereafter. I suspected a possible CPU problem, overheating problem and hard drive problem, but with the inconsistency of the shutdown process, I have not been able to pinpoint the source of the problem. It seems to shutdown most often during multi-tasking operations. I downloaded CPU and memory testing software a while back and my laptop passed all of the tests.

I have not been able to run a virus or spyware scan on my computer without it shutting down before completion of the scan. Occasionally, I have been able to run the Ad-aware SE scan, but programs like Spybot, Spy Sweeper, Spy Doctor barely get started before computer shutdown. Even opening Firefox 2 or Opera 9.1 result in numerous shutdowns (I do have multiple tabs open). I can't confirm as to whether I have a hardware or software problem. I am at a loss of what to do to correct the problem and I am looking for your expertise for help.

I had considered reinstalling my Windows XP Pro operating system. I've never had to reinstall it since I purchased my laptop. The major problem with doing so is that my original Windows XP Pro is part of the IBM OEM installation disk and I don't know if I can install only the XP Pro or will the disk reformat my hard drive to it's original configuration. October 2003 is a long time ago and a lot of things have changed since then. My original software did not include any Windows Updates or Service Packs so that would leave me a lot of work to bring it back up to speed.

Can I buy a disk at TukCom that would contain both service packs and all of the windows updates that I could install if I did a clean Windows XP Pro installation with my original software?

Edited March 27, 2007 by PattayaDavid

[Jdietz]

Sounds like a simple case of overheating. System performs an emergency shutdown to protect itself from further harm.

As soon as the system is 'really' used, like in scans, system activity is high enough to quickly reach shutdown temperature.

Get a can of pressured air, and clean out all vents, check if the fans are actually running smoothly, or have them replaced.

Good luck

[gharknes]

there is software out there that will display your GPU and CPU temps, I have this on my laptop it sits in the system tray showing both temps, the one i have is designed for dell laptops not sure if it will work on yours do a search for I8kfanGUI

as mantioned above it sounds like an over heating problem but to be honest it could be any piece of hardware failing including the PSU block, does it happen on battery, try unplugging the mains when the problem persists like it did yesterday, when on battery the cpu usually goes into a speed reduction mode to save power and with that it reduces heat called speed step, do a swearch on the internet for your model of comp might be a common issue with your machine, you could also check the log files on XP to see what it flags up just before shutdown, my machine tells me that the system shut down due to over heating when I reboot, this is related to the bios, yours may not do that, you may also have a virus or other nasty SW running, check your task manager.......................can't think of anything else right now

[hereforgood]

Also DL speed fan it is a free Program for Laptop Temps

[Petch01]

Here is the url for speedfan.

http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

Petch01

[Guest Reimar]

IBM has an exellent Service in Thailand.

The best you can do is to go to IBM in Bangkok at Pahonyithin Road, it's Headoffice in Thailand. While they check you Laptop you can wait and the service charges not expensive as HP/Compaq or Toshiba!! but they charge only if they repair. The Ceck-out Service is free of charge.

Don't use other service as IBM, you may will loose!

[PattayaDavid]

Thanks for everyone's input. I too, felt that it was an overheating problem. What basically happens is that I will try to open a program, website or even the IBM launcher to load a new driver then the CPU speed will almost immediately go to 100% with the computer fan running then after a few or up to maybe 10 seconds, the computer will shutdown. I can open a program or a web page that I have opened numerous times, but this one time will cause the CPU to max out. It's almost like the computer hangs up in the middle of opening the website or loading the program. I tried it using battery power only and the results are the same. The problem is that there is no consistency to the problem. My CPU could be indicating 0% with the fan not running then I try to run SpyBot for example and as soon as I load the program, the CPU speed almost immediately climbs to 100%, the fan runs wildly and seconds later the computer suddenly turns off. I thought it might be a software problem, but it happens on different software at different times. It always fails on SpyBot, Spyware Sweeper or Doctor, NOD32 Anti-virus (any anti-virus program), just about anything labor intensive that performs a scan of my computer. Sometimes my anti-virus will make it almost to the end then it fails when it reaches the registry scan. I know what you're thinking, try a register cleaner. Done that many times with different cleaners. I downloaded FanControl.exe from the SpeedFan site, but was unable to install it due to a error message indicating that it couldn't find the WINIO.DLL file. I'll work with this again tomorrow, but my fan seems to run fine and I can feel the air blowing out the exhaust port. Also, the exhaust port airflow is not always hot when the laptop shuts down. Again, thanks for your help and I welcome other suggestions. I just may have to take a ride to Bangkok and visit the IBM Service Center.

Pattaya Dave

[Merlin]

one thing you can do to see if it's a hardware or software problem is to boot it up from a live CD such as Ubuntu and see how long it runs under a completely different OS etc. You can browse the web, play some games, run a few things at once to load up the CPU etc to see how it goes.

At least that would put things like a rootkit or virus infection etc out of the picture.

[gharknes]

http://help.allegheny.edu/news/archives/000427.html

could be a virus, after thinking hard and long about what you have posted I am almost 90% sure this is your problem, especially when you mention AV scanning

[PattayaDavid]

http://help.allegheny.edu/news/archives/000427.html

could be a virus, after thinking hard and long about what you have posted I am almost 90% sure this is your problem, especially when you mention AV scanning

I followed the suggestion of Gharknes last night.  This ultimately led me to the Symantac weblite which instructed me to close "Windows Restore" function then to reboot my computer in the "Safe Mode" and run my anti-virus program.  I did just that, I ran NOD32 virus program, SpyBot and Spy Sweeper programs.  It must have taken a good 6 hours of constant hard drive access.  

The good news is that my computer did not shut down once throughout the scans.  When I try to run SpyBot and Spy Sweeper under the Windows "Normal Mode", my computer would shut off within seconds of beginning the scans.  No viruses or malware was found on my computer.

The bad news, after restarting my computer in the "Normal Mode", it shut off at or near the end of Windows loading. I restarted my computer again and it shut off before I could even type in the hard drive password.  The third time was a charm, Windows loaded and all was fine.  I shutdown to go to bed and turned off all power going into the computer.  This morning, on a cold start, I attempted to startup my computer and again it shutdown at or near the end of the Windows loading.  I would hear a rapid surge of the fan just before the computer shuts off.  My computer started fine on my second try which is why I am able to write this message.

I'm beginning to suspect a power management problem.  Possibly there is a conflict with the IBM ThinkPad power manangement software and the Windows Power Management software.  Of course they have both been residing on my computer since initial purchase in October 2003.  Maybe one of the Windows Updates or Service Pack Updates contains something that causes the conflict.  Why does the computer run fine when in the "Safe Mode", but suddenly shuts off when operating in the "Normal Mode"?  

I guess I will try a different approach over the weekend.  Again, please respond to my new developments if you have any suggestions.

Pattaya Dave

[nikster]

http://help.allegheny.edu/news/archives/000427.html

could be a virus, after thinking hard and long about what you have posted I am almost 90% sure this is your problem, especially when you mention AV scanning

I followed the suggestion of Gharknes last night. This ultimately led me to the Symantac weblite which instructed me to close "Windows Restore" function then to reboot my computer in the "Safe Mode" and run my anti-virus program. I did just that, I ran NOD32 virus program, SpyBot and Spy Sweeper programs. It must have taken a good 6 hours of constant hard drive access.

The good news is that my computer did not shut down once throughout the scans. When I try to run SpyBot and Spy Sweeper under the Windows "Normal Mode", my computer would shut off within seconds of beginning the scans. No viruses or malware was found on my computer.

The bad news, after restarting my computer in the "Normal Mode", it shut off at or near the end of Windows loading. I restarted my computer again and it shut off before I could even type in the hard drive password. The third time was a charm, Windows loaded and all was fine. I shutdown to go to bed and turned off all power going into the computer. This morning, on a cold start, I attempted to startup my computer and again it shutdown at or near the end of the Windows loading. I would hear a rapid surge of the fan just before the computer shuts off. My computer started fine on my second try which is why I am able to write this message.

I'm beginning to suspect a power management problem. Possibly there is a conflict with the IBM ThinkPad power manangement software and the Windows Power Management software. Of course they have both been residing on my computer since initial purchase in October 2003. Maybe one of the Windows Updates or Service Pack Updates contains something that causes the conflict. Why does the computer run fine when in the "Safe Mode", but suddenly shuts off when operating in the "Normal Mode"?

I guess I will try a different approach over the weekend. Again, please respond to my new developments if you have any suggestions.

Pattaya Dave

If you can reliably reproduce that everything works in Safe Mode, then you can conclude it's a software problem. I would also follow the above advice and run Ubuntu from the live CD to test out the system.

Re-install of Windows XP will be your best and safest option. Before you do that, make sure to download all the latest drivers for your machine from the IBM website or wherever they are. Then install XP (or use recovery CD if you have that), then install all the latest drivers - note that the drivers on the recovery CD or the original CD that came with the machine might be outdated, better to upgrade to the latest.

Recently I have fixed wireless networking for two friends - both had the issue that all of a sudden, and with apparently no input of their own, wireless didn't work anymore. Both are not computer-savy, so the chances that they screwed around with the drivers are pretty much zero. Yet, it just stopped working. Both times I was able to fix it by downloading the latest drivers from Intel and installing them. Apparently Windows XP has the capability of suddenly breaking down for no apparent reason.

Now, if you experience shutdowns in safe mode and / or Ubuntu, then it's a hardware problem and you need to clean the machine with pressured air, as mentioned above. If that doesn't help, it may just be a mainboard problem - and maybe time for a new computer.

I say that because I previously had a system that would randomly shut down and overheat, and it was the mainboard - fixed under warranty at that time.

Edited March 29, 2007 by nikster

[autonomous_unit]

I also think it sounds like a software problem given that safe mode works, though I was originally thinking "bad battery" until you said you had tried it both with battery and mains power.

Just for reference, I have a T42 which is very similar hardware to your T40 and it did have an overheating problem. It would "throttle" the CPU to 600 MHz but it kept running.

[PattayaDavid]

one thing you can do to see if it's a hardware or software problem is to boot it up from a live CD such as Ubuntu and see how long it runs under a completely different OS etc. You can browse the web, play some games, run a few things at once to load up the CPU etc to see how it goes.

At least that would put things like a rootkit or virus infection etc out of the picture.

Merlin,

I've never heard of Ubuntu, could you bring me up to speed on it?  Also, does anyone know of any specific diagnostic software that I could run to check out my system?  I've already run the PC Doctor software that I downloaded from the IBM Support site which found no problems.

Thanks,

Pattaya Dave

[joka]

On my Thinkpad R40, there is a function called IBM Access, there you can restore all your drivers, etc. even if you format the hard drive.

[Aussietraveller]

One other thing to think about is the surface that you are using the laptop on.

I has similar prpoblems a while ago, and eventually worked out that problems occured when using the laptop on a soft surface, i.e. the bed, a chair..

These would not allow sufficient ventilation to the laptop and it shut down.

I now avoid these surfaces, and have not had problems since...

Hope this is of some help

[Merlin]

Merlin,

I've never heard of Ubuntu, could you bring me up to speed on it? Also, does anyone know of any specific diagnostic software that I could run to check out my system? I've already run the PC Doctor software that I downloaded from the IBM Support site which found no problems.

Thanks,

Pattaya Dave

I really like Ubuntu - I use it on my main machines most of the time, especially for any internet related work.

From the home page at http://www.ubuntu.com/

Ubuntu is a community developed, linux-based operating system that is perfect for laptops, desktops and servers. It contains all the applications you need - a web browser, presentation, document and spreadsheet software, instant messaging and much more.

Basically, it's a complete OS with all the apps you need all rolled into one CD - and the best part is you can boot the CD in "live" mode, which just loads itself into RAM so you can browse the internet, use Open Office, GIMP etc and see how you like it. Then if you want you can actually install it onto your machine - either by itself or dual-boot with Windoze etc.

[drake]

1. Yes, UBUNTU is a fine OS, bud access Windows HD Partition (NTFS,FAT) only via samba.

If u can find WINTERNALS in a PC Shop, this boot WinXP from CD with Crash-Analysis.

2. Check the LOG Records, - System and - Application.

My Computer/Manage (right Mouse click) / System Tools / Event Viewer...

Maybe u find some Error Records, then (right Mouse), Properties explain the Error - or go.microsoft.com

3. Go Start/Run MSCONFIG. Under Startup deselect all what u think its not necessarily, same under Services (Hide MS services). Restart (?).

4. Years ago a had the similar Problem. Shut down after short Time.

The reason was the Battery. The Control-Circuit in the Battery like to load the old Battery, bud not enough Power was available from Powersupply.

Take out the battery and work only with Powersupply. (maybe)

cu drake

[PattayaDavid]

1. Yes, UBUNTU is a fine OS, bud access Windows HD Partition (NTFS,FAT) only via samba.

If u can find WINTERNALS in a PC Shop, this boot WinXP from CD with Crash-Analysis.

2. Check the LOG Records, - System and - Application.

My Computer/Manage (right Mouse click) / System Tools / Event Viewer...

Maybe u find some Error Records, then (right Mouse), Properties explain the Error - or go.microsoft.com

3. Go Start/Run MSCONFIG. Under Startup deselect all what u think its not necessarily, same under Services (Hide MS services). Restart (?).

4. Years ago a had the similar Problem. Shut down after short Time.

The reason was the Battery. The Control-Circuit in the Battery like to load the old Battery, bud not enough Power was available from Powersupply.

Take out the battery and work only with Powersupply. (maybe)

cu drake

Thanks Drake, I'll give your suggestions a try.  This has really been a pain in the butt.  I tried to backup my hard drive the other day and my computer shutdown after about 5 or 10 minutes, maybe sooner, into the backup process. Note that the uncommanded shutdown also occurs when operating on battery power only.

Pattaya Dave

Edited April 3, 2007 by PattayaDavid

[lmponder]

I have a IBM T40p 1.6Ghz 1G memory Pentium M laptop that I bought back in October 2003. Over the course of the past year, maybe longer, occasionally my laptop would just suddenly shutdown. The CPU would max out at 100%, the fan would come on and seconds later, it would just shutdown. When I attempt a restart, it would perform a normal start, no safe mode, almost as if it had saved all of my data before shutting itself down because no data would be lost, even if I was in the middle of writing an email or word document.

Now it is happening more and more often. I used to use Norton Internet Security 2005 until it expired then I switched over to Zone Alarm Pro version 6.0, 6.5. I don't think the sudden shutdowns began until well after the switch to Zone Alarm, but thought I would mention it anyway. Sometimes it will go for weeks without shutting down, but over the course of yesterday and today, my laptop has shutdown more than 15 times. It took me at least 5 attempts to open my internet browser and Microsoft Outlook today. Each of the 4 previous attempts resulted in uncommanded shutdown partially through the loading. Sometimes, it will shutdown even before Windows begins loading, sometimes during the Windows loading and almost anytime thereafter. I suspected a possible CPU problem, overheating problem and hard drive problem, but with the inconsistency of the shutdown process, I have not been able to pinpoint the source of the problem. It seems to shutdown most often during multi-tasking operations. I downloaded CPU and memory testing software a while back and my laptop passed all of the tests.

I have not been able to run a virus or spyware scan on my computer without it shutting down before completion of the scan. Occasionally, I have been able to run the Ad-aware SE scan, but programs like Spybot, Spy Sweeper, Spy Doctor barely get started before computer shutdown. Even opening Firefox 2 or Opera 9.1 result in numerous shutdowns (I do have multiple tabs open). I can't confirm as to whether I have a hardware or software problem. I am at a loss of what to do to correct the problem and I am looking for your expertise for help.

I had considered reinstalling my Windows XP Pro operating system. I've never had to reinstall it since I purchased my laptop. The major problem with doing so is that my original Windows XP Pro is part of the IBM OEM installation disk and I don't know if I can install only the XP Pro or will the disk reformat my hard drive to it's original configuration. October 2003 is a long time ago and a lot of things have changed since then. My original software did not include any Windows Updates or Service Packs so that would leave me a lot of work to bring it back up to speed.

Can I buy a disk at TukCom that would contain both service packs and all of the windows updates that I could install if I did a clean Windows XP Pro installation with my original software?

This is classic overheating. Most likely your fans/heatsink have dust in them. I've had this problem before. Two choices at this point. If you have under warranty take to IBM service center and have them do it. If not, go to Pantip and have one of the tech guys on the bottom floor clean it for you. I used to have this problem here with my Toshiba. Its not a software or virus thing. The fan is a dead giveaway. Once you clean out the dust, your laptop fans will rarely come back on, depending on what you are doing. This is a common problem seen in the repair shops.

No big deal.

[gharknes]

I have a IBM T40p 1.6Ghz 1G memory Pentium M laptop that I bought back in October 2003. Over the course of the past year, maybe longer, occasionally my laptop would just suddenly shutdown. The CPU would max out at 100%, the fan would come on and seconds later, it would just shutdown. When I attempt a restart, it would perform a normal start, no safe mode, almost as if it had saved all of my data before shutting itself down because no data would be lost, even if I was in the middle of writing an email or word document.

Now it is happening more and more often. I used to use Norton Internet Security 2005 until it expired then I switched over to Zone Alarm Pro version 6.0, 6.5. I don't think the sudden shutdowns began until well after the switch to Zone Alarm, but thought I would mention it anyway. Sometimes it will go for weeks without shutting down, but over the course of yesterday and today, my laptop has shutdown more than 15 times. It took me at least 5 attempts to open my internet browser and Microsoft Outlook today. Each of the 4 previous attempts resulted in uncommanded shutdown partially through the loading. Sometimes, it will shutdown even before Windows begins loading, sometimes during the Windows loading and almost anytime thereafter. I suspected a possible CPU problem, overheating problem and hard drive problem, but with the inconsistency of the shutdown process, I have not been able to pinpoint the source of the problem. It seems to shutdown most often during multi-tasking operations. I downloaded CPU and memory testing software a while back and my laptop passed all of the tests.

I have not been able to run a virus or spyware scan on my computer without it shutting down before completion of the scan. Occasionally, I have been able to run the Ad-aware SE scan, but programs like Spybot, Spy Sweeper, Spy Doctor barely get started before computer shutdown. Even opening Firefox 2 or Opera 9.1 result in numerous shutdowns (I do have multiple tabs open). I can't confirm as to whether I have a hardware or software problem. I am at a loss of what to do to correct the problem and I am looking for your expertise for help.

I had considered reinstalling my Windows XP Pro operating system. I've never had to reinstall it since I purchased my laptop. The major problem with doing so is that my original Windows XP Pro is part of the IBM OEM installation disk and I don't know if I can install only the XP Pro or will the disk reformat my hard drive to it's original configuration. October 2003 is a long time ago and a lot of things have changed since then. My original software did not include any Windows Updates or Service Packs so that would leave me a lot of work to bring it back up to speed.

Can I buy a disk at TukCom that would contain both service packs and all of the windows updates that I could install if I did a clean Windows XP Pro installation with my original software?

This is classic overheating. Most likely your fans/heatsink have dust in them. I've had this problem before. Two choices at this point. If you have under warranty take to IBM service center and have them do it. If not, go to Pantip and have one of the tech guys on the bottom floor clean it for you. I used to have this problem here with my Toshiba. Its not a software or virus thing. The fan is a dead giveaway. Once you clean out the dust, your laptop fans will rarely come back on, depending on what you are doing. This is a common problem seen in the repair shops.

No big deal.

by the description of the problem I'd disagree, a CPU will function for a while without fans running (depends of course on what load) there is nothing described above that would indicate a pattern suggesting overheating especially since it happens during battery power when everything is slowed way down to reduce power consumption, the fans will very rarely even come on when on battery power, not required. so although this type of problem could be heat the sympton don't suggest that to me.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

If you do decide to re-install your OS and have a valid XP Professional licence, you can pick up Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 with RyanVM's Windows XP Post SP2 Update Pack integrated within. Version 2.1.8 is the latest.

IE7 & Media Player 11 are also integrated, so you won't need to download and install them again.

You can pick a copy up at Pantip.

http://www.ryanvm.net/msfn/updatepack.html for details of what is contained in the update pack

Therefore you'll have virtually no updating to do.

Edited April 10, 2007 by Jiu-Jitsu

[PattayaDavid]

Thanks all for your helpful suggestions. I am still working the issue, but have yet to narrow down the cause of the uncommanded sudden shutdowns. I have been told that the cause may be associated with my built-in wireless network card, but since I have it turned off and have never used it, I can't imagine this to be the cause. Again, I appreciate all of your posts and those made in the future.

Pattaya Dave

[Jiu-Jitsu]

You can pick a copy up at Tukcom.