Money Transfers...

[cshehan]

Various visas require a savings amount in order to apply new or renew your visa. My question to anyone who has done so, how do you legally get the required amounts of monies into Thailand without violating any currency rules. To clarify, if you need $20k US in the bank, and the limit you can carry in is $10k, do you bring a certified US bank draft and will they accept it at say, Thai Farmers Bank to open an account? My goal is to apply for the type O visa upon my 50th birthday in November. I thought to make a short run on a tourist visa and set up my banking. Open to suggestions and advise.

[lopburi3]

The bank accounts, although passbook saving, are intended to be used by you for day to day expenses and will be reviewed at each extension of stay. You should have a method of depositing into your account while you are here and most people use wire transfer for this. Set up a transfer agreement with your bank and then after you set up your account here you can request transfers when required.

[ProThaiExpat]

Had Thaivisa been around with the great lopburi3 in it when I came to Thailand, I would have definitely done as he has suggested.

Unforturnately, my bank advised me that they would not wire transfer me money from my account even though I have online banking priviliges as I was in Thailand when requesting the service.

Thus I am faced with the problem of getting money here, while I am here.

Someone has suggested, and I intend to try it when I need to, is to use a debit card for a point of sale transaction at the bank and the very next day you have the funds in your account with minimum of fees. Wire transfer costs 40 dollars or more.

The poster said Siam Commerical Bank does it for sure. I will try it at Bangkok Bank and will let your know as waiting to try it when I need the money is unwise. Will do it on a test basis next week and advise.

[lopburi3]

Unforturnately, my bank advised me that they would not wire transfer me money from my account even though I have online banking priviliges as I was in Thailand when requesting the service.

Did you ask about doing it by phone or fax and that account is in your name? I use phone call which is recorded and requires a password and they know I am here in Bangkok so do not use callback to confirm. Takes about 4 minutes.

Will be interested in your debit card test, especially if amount is above normal debit card daily merchant limit per your electronic transfer agreement paperwork.

[astral]

Unforturnately, my bank advised me that they would not wire transfer me money from my account even though I have online banking priviliges as I was in Thailand when requesting the service.

You need a new bank!!

Lopburi3 is quite correct.

Most banks have authentication systems for faxes and phone calls

Where did you get the $10,000 limit from?

You can bring in more, just declare it to customs,

especially if you wangt to take it out again.

Not advisable to carry that much in cash, but TC will be fine.

Just fill in my name at the top, thanks.

Edited June 6, 2004 by astral

[holm188]

when transferring money make sure originator and receiver pay their respective charges at their end, i.e if you try to get all charges paid at the origin, the Thai bank at the receiving end will charge their fee anyway.

[ProThaiExpat]

lopburi3: I am going to try the debit card approach Monday and will definitely make it for substantially more than my $500 ATM limit. If they use the same limit for the debit card, then I am going to take them to task based on the information posters have suggested re: fax and telephone call.

I understand about security and since I am not there to set up any of the proceedures mentioned, arguably someone could capture my identity information and then without being physicall present, drain my funds.

However, when I inquired via e-mail, e-mail going through the same secure link through which I access my account, I was advised they couldn't even tell me my ATM limit or debit card limit, due to security reasons. Evidently, a low level functionary.

I will start writing letters if the debit card doesn't allow me substantially more than the ATM.

[lopburi3]

lopburi3: I am going to try the debit card approach Monday and will definitely make it for substantially more than my $500 ATM limit. If they use the same limit for the debit card, then I am going to take them to task based on the information posters have suggested re: fax and telephone call.

You should have a 'very fine print' copy of a document called Automated Banking Card and Electronic Funds Transfer Agreement somewhere in your banking files which will set out the limits for a debit card. Mine is $5,000 per card on weekdays when contact is possible with home bank. Much higher than the normal $500 atm use per day but not the full amount I might have in the account.

[ProThaiExpat]

lopburi3: That would work for me. My ATM limit is the same as yours, so I will try the $5K tomorrow, as that level works for me.

I also sent a secure-link e-mail to the author of the "security forbids revelation" message asking for an explanation as to why the link that allows for complete withrdawal of all my funds is not secure enough to reveal a debit card limit.

I was NICE, and asked for her help in coming up with a solution to my objective of making $5k or more single withdrawals from Thailand without going the check route. I also mentioned that my "expat friends" have suggested that I change banks, but before doing that, etc. etc.

Will keep you advised how it comes out and thanks for your input.

[JimGant]

Pro,

I'm curious too. I'm tired of paying $50 wire fee (although if I send more than $5000, I'm still money ahead since my bank (Suntrust) charges 1% for ATM transactions.)

We had a discussion here several months back about this, and one guy did use his debit card to transfer money (maybe where you got your idea). And the fees, as I recall, were very reasonable. So, yes, please let us know what happens, particularly since I too have an account with Bangkok Bank.

[RDN]

Unforturnately, my bank advised me that they would not wire transfer me money from my account even though I have online banking priviliges as I was in Thailand when requesting the service.

You need a new bank!!

Agreed! I use a "S.W.I.F.T." transfer ("Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication" - http://www.slowtrav.com/europe/swift.htm ). This has been around for over 30 years and I've never had a problem. I have to print out the form from my bank's web site, fill it in and send it back to England. The money usually arrives within two weeks. Cost is £20 (1400 baht) which I consider as the price you have to pay each year for living here. (Just like the one year extension of stay 1900 baht, multiple re-entry permit 3800 baht).

I see a lot of posters writing about "wire transfer". Is this the same as SWIFT?

[lopburi3]

I see a lot of posters writing about "wire transfer". Is this the same as SWIFT?

Yes.

[ProThaiExpat]

JimGant, lopburi3, etc. I went both to Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial bank today as promised. JimGant was correct, that the debit card method of money transfer spoke of by someone in this forum some months ago was were I got the idea. I don't recall that post discussing a limit on the amount of transfer.

Both banks I visited today said the same thing. Both will accept Visa and Mastercard debit cards. BKK bank didn't mention a limit and I didn't ask since I don't have a Visa or Mastercard debit card. However, Siam Commercial made it clear to me that the debit card approach is limited to 20k Baht per day. Since that is the amount of my ATM limit, it doesn't help me any.

When my bank told me to use their ATM card to do a point of sale transaction at any bank, since it was also a debit card, and they refused for "security reasons" to divulge the limit, I can see that I was "handled".

They will be receiving a deluge of e-mails until we come up with some solution to this problem, which thankfully I didn't wait to solve until I needed the money.

Siam Commercial gal suggested that I get travellers checks in large denominations from my bank and they would cash them for 30 baht each.

Since I believe my bank gives free travellers checks to seniors and those with certain balances, I will try that approach as well. The problem, of course, is they usually require you to be present at the bank and sign the checks in their presence.

Will continue to update as I develope different ways around this problem. I had wire transfer priviliges at Charles Schwab with money link to my bank, however, I closed my Schwab account after taking a "bath" in 2002.

[JimGant]

Pro,

Sorry to hear this. Apparently the poster who did have good luck with his debit card just happened to get the right branch and the right clerk to interpret rules in his favor. Kinda like immigration.

What really irks me is that there is in place with some European countries (well, at least Switzerland) the ability to transfer money to your Thai account strictly through the Internet. There's actually a cipher like machine involved when you do this from your home computer, so the extra wickets for security are in place. I have never seen, nor even heard about, such a system relative to US banks. I guess the wire fee folks have a good lobby.

[thaihome]

For me the SWIFT wire transfer is the only way to go. Since my bank charges me a godawfull % charge on international point of sale transactions, the $50 wire fee is the better of 2 evils. I use First Internet Bank for the wire transfers. These are done by sending a fax to them which is then confirmed by an exchange of e-mails. I still maintain my old bank account into which my paycheck is deposited. I make free ACH transfers from it to the FIB account when I need to make a wire transfer.

TH

[ProThaiExpat]

thaihome: Thanks for the link to First Internet Bank. Their money market account pays a fraction for interest than Citibank, where I am presently investigating setting up a money market.

If First Internet Bank of Indiana works with expats overseas over the internet, I will be a happy camper.

Jim Gant:

I received a response to my e-mail to my bank in the U.S. and a complete capitulation on the "can't tell you your limits for security reasons" even though the link I used could drain my account.

I was told in a somewhat oblique way that I could use my ATM (limit $500) for a "cumulative" total limit of $2500 per day.

Likewise, I was told I could use my debit card for a maximum of $5000 per day at any "point of sale transaction" with a merchant and more with a authorization call to my bank.

The gap in all this is "can a bank act as a point of sale merchant and credit a local account for $5000"? This was the gist of the post a couple of months ago. I asked then and was told Siam Commercial Bank could do this.

While the Siam branch I went to yesterday was a small one, they called twice, to their main office to answer the questions I posed, and they relayed the information that the debit card could only be used in the ATM machine.

My current plan is to try to set up a money market account in a "internet friendly exapat in Thailand welcome" bank who will wire transfer to me.

However, I am quite "put off" by the $50 fee. However, if it is once a year for a transfer to bring my baht account up to 800k , may not be too bad.

I get charged $2 for each ATM transfer. Then given a 400,000 annual budget, the ATM route and the wire transfer route cost the same. I had contemplated leaving the 800k alone in the bank and drawing cash through my ATM from U.S. bank for expenses, keeping the ATM slips to show immigration.

On reflection, the once a year transfer with sounds safer with immigration and less cumbersome in keeping the receipts, etc.

Comments?

[ProThaiExpat]

thaihome: Please elaborate on your experience with FIB.

I have studied their web page and am attracted by their a little above average money market accounts.

Is the fax letter approach the only way they do wire transfers?

How does ACH work?

I have a bill pay feature on the internet banking at my bank so sending money to them is easy by electronic check, but would like to learn of other methods.

There is information on the internet to the effect that the 60 strictly internet banks have with time been reduced by lack of interest to 20.

They do have a debit card so that is a good approach for paying non-cash purchases. I would like to dump my Platinium Visa for which I pay 145 dollars a year for. Screw the free air miles.

I tried to "chat" with them online on their website but three attempts ended for naught.

Any information would be appreciated.

[ProThaiExpat]

In another thread, can't remember where, there was talk of Paypal being available in Thailand soon.

I scanned their website and it would seem that if you had an account with them, that you could send money to Thailand via their system from your bank.

There was someone else who said a Thai bank was not a proper receipient for such a transfer.

Can anyone elaborate on whether Paypal is a method of money transfer into Thailand and what the cost is?

[farangene]

While the Siam branch I went to yesterday was a small one, they called twice, to their main office to answer the questions I posed, and they relayed the information that the debit card could only be used in the ATM machine.....

On reflection, the once a year transfer with sounds safer with immigration and less cumbersome in keeping the receipts, etc.

Comments?

I have used Swift transfers from my Schwab acct (PNC Bank)in the states two times with no problems and funds were in my acct within two days. This year I decided I would forego the wire xfer and try to transfer funds via debit card.

Earlier this year, I needed to get my ret. account up to 800k Bt and needed about $12,000 to do so. I went to the Emporium Branch of Bangkok Bank (FOREIGN CURRENCY EXCHANGE DESK in the front) and tried to use my debit card to transfer $12,000. Bkk bank said they had no limit on the amount to be transferred although the ATM limit is about $250 or 10,000 Bt.

However, my transfer was rejected by the US bank (even after giving my security info). I called Schwab in the states and asked them to add a comment to my account that I wanted to do a large transfer and their operator noted that the unsuccessful attempts were already included in my acct history.

Went back to Bkk Bank on second day anticipating success, and the @#$@#%% at Schwab had put a hold on my account!! Called them again and explained the situation and they added the note again.

Went back to Bangkok Bank on third day and, at the bank's suggestion, I requested a smaller amount-- like $3,000 or $4,000. Bingo!! Success. Went back on 3-4 consecutive days and each time withdrew a similar amount until the acct was over 800K again. Each time, I received a Bangkok Bank receipt for the transfer so you would have proof of funds transfer if Immig. asks.

Bkk Bank People were very nice and the same staff (2 - 4 people) always work the currency exchange desk so they are knowledgeable about transfers via debit or credit cards. The exchange desk is open every day (exc New Years Day I think) and the hours are from 8 AM to 8 PM which is convenient.

I will be sure to allow enough time next year if I run into any problems (like a few weeks at least). This year, there were many holidays (April) and after getting the $$ transferred you still have to wait for the head office to issue their letter that the funds are on balance before you head out to immigration (2-3 days). Good luck.

[thaihome]

thaihome:  Please elaborate on your experience with FIB.

Is the fax letter approach the only way they do wire transfers?

How does ACH work?

I'm not sure I would call FIB expat friendly, but it works for me.

I opened the account through their web site. You have to have a US address, which I had to verify by faxing a credit card bill with that address to them.

I think you can do wire transfers via telephone, but since I live in Asia, the time difference makes the fax/e-mail the best way for me and I have never tried any other way. They only send USD, so the currency exchange is at the receiving end.

To use the ACH you have to set up a pre-approved transfer which involves filing out a form (faxing to them) telling them what the sending bank account is, they then verify this by doing a dummy transfer. This took a couple of tries as the FIB person had some trouble reading my account number correctly from the fax. Once that is approved, you simply fill in on-line form giving the sending bank and account number (must be first pre-approved by process above), the amount, and the FIB account you want the money to go to. Transfer done by end of next business day. There is no charge for incoming ACH transfers. You can send money ACH, but I believe there is a charge.

I only use FIB to send money overseas, so I only keep a balance of $500 to avoid the service charge. Been doing this for just over a year now, and no screw-ups yet. I don't claim this is the most cost effective way, but works and it is convenient.

TH

[ProThaiExpat]

Thaihome: Many thanks for your articulate and prompt reply.

I could change my credit card mailing address to a friends home in the U.S. and then go the FIB route using Bangkok Bank's New York swift number.

However, my initial reluctance to do five $500 ATM transactions in consecutive days to get larger amounts of money to Thailand from my U.S. account seems to pall in comparison to the difficulties I have been advised of through FIB or PayPal.

Will try the ATM approach, as the fees are comparable to the wire transfer fee, and there is the option of setting up another bank account in the U.S. in a bank that will permit wire transfers from abroad, when I visit there next year.

[KevinN]

I get charged $2 for each ATM transfer. Then given a 400,000 annual budget, the ATM route and the wire transfer route cost the same. I had contemplated leaving the 800k alone in the bank and drawing cash through my ATM from U.S. bank for expenses, keeping the ATM slips to show immigration.

On reflection, the once a year transfer with sounds safer with immigration and less cumbersome in keeping the receipts, etc.

Comments?

PTE, I went to my SCB branch again 4 days ago on the 5th. and gave them my VISA ATM/CHECK card and made my usual transfer to my SCB passbook acct. I checked the ATM at street level before going in, made my transfer at the usual 60 TBH fee and left,checked and the money was in my acct. at the ATM also stamped in my passbook and was up to date, I use that acct for daily living expenses as it is supposed to be,

I tried a couple of years ago to show my ATM reciepts and a printout of my bank statements and the immigration officer wouldn't even look at them,only the bank book was of any interest to her.

[lopburi3]

I tried a couple of years ago to show my ATM reciepts and a printout of my bank statements and the immigration officer wouldn't even look at them,only the bank book was of any interest to her.

Correct. Do not try to use ATM receipts for proof of money transfer for deposit accounts. They can be used by travelers on tourist visas if asked during a border crossing how they afford to live here but are not, as a rule, acceptable for transfer proof to required savings accounts used for visa extensions. What they want in this case is your bank book with indications of foreign source code printed along with the transaction.

[ProThaiExpat]

lopburi3: You are so right again, also KevinN.

Went to ATM today to see if my U.S. Bank ATM card would "do the trick" in documenting U.S. withdrawals and failed on all counts.

Not only could I not get The Bangkok Bank ATM to communicate consistently, once only givng me 1k and the next 10K Quick Cash, but never 20k my limit. Likewise, the ATM receipt was meaningless, not even indicating my balance in dollars nor the source of the withdrawal.

I am back to trying First Internet Bank of Indiana. Friend of mine in Hawaii is making me a "roomate", if anyone asks, (I am on an extended trip to Thailand)

and ironcally, I still have some checks for my bank when my condo was in the same building.

Changed my U.S. credit card to that address electronically, and will await his forwarding of my first mailed statement there, before I tell them to make my statment "electronic" henceforth.

I can sure see the value of a mail drop that doesn't give the appearance of one.

Will advise if it all works. Their money market accounts pay a percentage point higher in interest than my bank, no bricks and mortar allows them to do that, so they say.

Internet advises the number of internet banks shrunk from 60 to 20 in the past few years.

Will go slow with investmests with them although all deposts are insured by FDIC.

[lopburi3]

Not only could I not get The Bangkok Bank ATM to communicate consistently, once only givng me 1k and the next 10K Quick Cash, but never 20k my limit. Likewise, the ATM receipt was meaningless, not even indicating my balance in dollars nor the source of the withdrawal.

The highest "quick cash" I have seen on BBL ATM's is 10k. You have to select withdrawal/checking account/type in amount to get more. If ATM is low on funds (no 1k notes) you will not be able to obtain 20k in any case.

The receipt, when they provide a receipt, shows your account number which makes it obvious not from a Thai account (although I have noted the account number on TMB slips which use PLUS clearance do have have my real bank account number) but the cash was taken from the real account.

[ProThaiExpat]

KevinN: NOW you really have my attention!!

(1) Is it true that your card is a debit/atm card issued with a Visa format?

(2) Is it also a credit card?

(3) Is it issued by an overseas bank?

(4) What actually happens when you put it in the ATM at SCB and how do you get it from a withdrawal from your overseas account into your SCB passbook account?

(5) Is this transaction limited to your single use ATM limit?

Your transaction borders on my fantasy at this point. Getting this kind of card from my bank in Hawaii, without actually going there, seems remote.

On the other hand, the card issued by First Internet Bank is a debit/atm/Visa from what they state on their webpage.

So, I wouldn't have to pay wire transfer fees, if I am not limited to the usual $500 single use ATM/debit card limit. Thus my question on your maximum amount allowed per transaction.

[ProThaiExpat]

lopburi3: Yee of so little faith!

First try: Withdrawal 20k response incorrect amount

2nd Withdrawal 19k ditto dittor (Make sure not conversion prob)

3rd Withdrawal 1k got cash

4th Quick Cash 10k got cash

5th with staff in attendance repeat #1 communicatin problem

6th ditto repeat #2 incorrect number

etc.

Staff suggested I try another bank ATM.

I have been successful in the past, over a year ago, at the 2k withdrawal level, however, all the receipts printed above didn't show any conncetion to the U.S. and no number printed on the receipt corresponded to any number on the atm card.

My thought was, with 800k in a passbook account, the only hurdle was to show immigration where my living expenses were coming from. So far, looks like the ATM route is NOT the way to go based on your advice and my inability to document overseas origin of funds.

[lopburi3]

I have been successful in the past, over a year ago, at the 2k withdrawal level, however, all the receipts printed above didn't show any conncetion to the U.S. and no number printed on the receipt corresponded to any number on the atm card.

For BBL there should be a 19 digit number starting with your checking account number and ending with a bunch of zeros. If from a Thai account there will only be the 10 digit account number.

Sounds like ATM was having a problem communicating. This used to be a problem here in Bangkok 4 or 5 years ago but have not had it happen for a long time. Sometimes you would get really nasty language with fraud and such mentioned but believe most banks have toned that down now.

[PhillipJ]

$50 for a wire transfer sounds expensive. I have used an Australian bank (National) to wire money to Thailand many times and it only cost me $25AUS. I think it pays to shop around as different banks have different fees.

[huski]

KevinN:  NOW you really have my attention!!

(1) Is it true that your card is a debit/atm card issued with a Visa format?

(2) Is it also a credit card?

(3)  Is it issued by an overseas bank?

(4)  What actually happens when you put it in the ATM at SCB and how do you get it from a withdrawal from your overseas account into your SCB passbook account?

(5)  Is this transaction limited to your single use ATM limit?

Your transaction borders on my fantasy at this point.  Getting this kind of card from my bank in Hawaii, without actually going there, seems remote.

On the other hand, the card issued by First Internet Bank is a debit/atm/Visa from what they state on their webpage.

So, I wouldn't have to pay wire transfer fees, if I am not limited to the usual $500 single use ATM/debit card limit. Thus my question on your maximum amount allowed per transaction.

the credit card is being used for a purchase and gives either a higher limit or no limit. there actually is three steps .

withdrawl/purchase from account using credit card

currency exchange

deposit to thai bank account