US Proof of Income

[cyclone6]

I am considering retiring in Thailand going the Non-O with retirement extension route.  I am a US citizen, and receive 2 annuity payments every month in the total amount of $4000.  The payments are direct deposited into my Charles Schwab Bank account every month before the 1st of the following month - and have been for 3 years to this point.  I much prefer to go the 65,000 B/month income route than the 800,000 B/bank deposit route, if possible.  Since the US embassy is no longer doing income verification letters, I wonder what my options are.  Will any of the 3 below work?

 

1)  Income letters from the 2 annuity companies showing the 4,000 $/month?

 

2) Leave the deposits coming into the Schwab bank, and show my bank records showing identical deposit amounts each month for the past 3 years proving its greater than 65,000 B/mo?  (And use the free ATM withdrawals to access the money.)

 

3) Open a Thai bank account and have the 4,000 $/mo annuity payments deposited there for a few months before I apply?

 

If none of these will work, is there another way I have not considered to prove the income requirement?

 

Thanks.

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, cyclone6 said:

3) Open a Thai bank account and have the 4,000 $/mo annuity payments deposited there for a few months before I apply?

That is your only option now.

You only need to transfer enough to meet the 65k baht requirement (about $2200 at the current rates). You will need proof the funds were transferred into the country from abroad.

You may also need proof of the source of your income.

For the first extension of stay application you only need a couple of months of transfers

[Martyp]

You could transfer the money monthly from your US accounts yourself in one lump sum. In which case you have to make sure the transfer is coded as an international transfer.  If you have two annuity payments transferred directly then make sure they are not too close to the beginning or end of the month. You don’t want to have a payment transferred on the wrong month just because the 1st is a a Saturday or Sunday or holiday. You should check with your Immigration office whether they will accept two payments and sum them. You might also want to get a letter from the source of the annuities confirming the monthly income.

[UKresonant]

1 hour ago, cyclone6 said:

3) Open a Thai bank account and have the 4,000 $/mo annuity payments deposited there for a few months before I apply?

Just a thought......

 

Direct deposit, leaves the possibility of tax complications in the future, unless it is very clearly covered under the DTT? (Though I believe the US treaty is clearer than the UK one). Will the annuity be considered as past savings transfers or treated as taxable income by Thai Tax Authorities? 

 

I have an option via a currency service account, that could be funded in December, for regular transfers to be made each month throughout the next calendar year of >65000+cover for the Thai Bank deposit fee. Though at the moment I'm doing manual monthly transfers via SWIFT of a pension amount paid 1 year ago.

 

[cyclone6]

Thank you for your comments.  I was just checking and it appears the US is one country that no longer has a non-immigrant O for retirement purposes (just for Thai family or volunteering).

 

So I guess I would have to apply for an non-immigrant O based on retirement here in Thailand (which is where my butt is firmly planted at the moment).  Would this change how I would go about the process of using the 65000 B/mo process? 

 

Ubon Joe said a couple of months deposits for an initial app would be sufficient.  Do there have to be 12 of them when you go back to extend for year #2?  Or would a lesser amount work if I wanted to spend some time away from Thailand and send that monthly amount elsewhere?

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, cyclone6 said:

So I guess I would have to apply for an non-immigrant O based on retirement here in Thailand (which is where my butt is firmly planted at the moment).  Would this change how I would go about the process of using the 65000 B/mo process? 

No 

You can apply for a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at immigration by showing you transferss and then apply for the extension.

 

5 minutes ago, cyclone6 said:

Do there have to be 12 of them when you go back to extend for year #2? 

Yes you would have to show 12 months of transfers.

[Tanoshi]

You could also deposit 800K THB in a Thai bank account to meet the financial requirement, or a combination of a funds deposit plus lesser monthly transfers totalling 800K THB for the year.

[cyclone6]

3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

You could also deposit 800K THB in a Thai bank account to meet the financial requirement, or a combination of a funds deposit plus lesser monthly transfers totalling 800K THB for the year.

Intriguing.  So if I kept $7500 USD in an account the year round (trying to avoid US FBAR reporting requirements), and deposited another $20000 USD sporadically through the year while I am here, would that suffice?

 

On a completely different note, but relevant because it may make the need for a retirement visa moot - what is the current thinking about how many tourist visas can be used in a given year before issues arise?

 

Thanks for the advice.  I know these questions are common in the forums, but its changing all the time and everybody's situation is just different enough...

 

 

[Thomas J]

cyclone6  FBAR is triggered if you have more than $10,000 in a foreign bank account.  So if you transferred $65,000 thb monthly or about $2.200 at current exchange rate and spent enough to keep the balance below $10,000 USD you would not have to file the FBAR. 

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, cyclone6 said:

Intriguing.  So if I kept $7500 USD in an account the year round (trying to avoid US FBAR reporting requirements), and deposited another $20000 USD sporadically through the year while I am here, would that suffice?

If combining income and money in the bank to reach 800k baht you would still have to do monthly transfers.

For example if you transferred $9000 that would be around 270k baht. Then you would need a total income of 530k baht which would be about $1500 per month.

[ChouDoufu]

34 minutes ago, cyclone6 said:

Intriguing.  So if I kept $7500 USD in an account the year round (trying to avoid US FBAR reporting requirements), and deposited another $20000 USD sporadically through the year while I am here, would that suffice?

fbar reporting is quite painless. 

 

you can report online.  fill in a short form, no additional documentation required to upload or to mail.  takes all of 5-10 minutes, depending on how many foreign accounts you maintain.

 

https://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/main.html

https://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/NoRegFBARFiler.html

https://bsaefiling1.fincen.treas.gov/lc/content/xfaforms/profiles/htmldefault.html

[BertM]

39 minutes ago, cyclone6 said:

Intriguing.  So if I kept $7500 USD in an account the year round (trying to avoid US FBAR reporting requirements), and deposited another $20000 USD sporadically through the year while I am here, would that suffice?

Just so you know, filing FBAR is not hard. It only takes me about 10 minutes to file. I wouldn't worry about going over the limit if you wanted to xfer more. The one-time 800k xfer is easier if you have the money, but "it's up to you".

Also, the US gov't will still know you have a foreign account even if you don't file FBAR because all foreign financial institutions are required to report those accounts. See below:

Starting July 1, 2014 Foreign Financial Institutions are required by the US government, under FATCA, to report information regarding accounts of all US citizens (living in the US and abroad).

[BertM]

11 hours ago, cyclone6 said:

3) Open a Thai bank account and have the 4,000 $/mo annuity payments deposited there for a few months before I apply?

You cannot do option 1 & 2. Without an income affidavit from US embassy, Thai Immigration wants to see foreign xfer deposits in a Thai bank account using a bank book & bank letter from the Thai bank. You can check with your annuity companies, but they may not be able to make xfers to overseas accounts. So, your best option may be to just xfer from your Schwab bank account. That way you can xfer just enough to cover the > 65k. With Schwab you will pay $25 for international wire xfers, but if you have > $100k balances, you get 3 xfers free per Qtr. Just a tip: Better to xfer USD and let Thai bank convert to THB.

Edited November 23, 2019 by BertM

[UKresonant]

You could also just Transfer USD to a FCD account, then pick when you convert to THB (my FCD charges 0.25% deposit fee min 200THB), then withdraw at TT rate via debit card, in branch or transfer to your THB account at the ATM.

[cyclone6]

8 hours ago, UKresonant said:

You could also just Transfer USD to a FCD account, then pick when you convert to THB (my FCD charges 0.25% deposit fee min 200THB), then withdraw at TT rate via debit card, in branch or transfer to your THB account at the ATM.

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a FCD account?

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, cyclone6 said:

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a FCD account?

A foreign currency account, the money is in an account in Thailand but hasn't been converted to Baht.

[cyclone6]

So the advantage to an FCD account would be what?  Fewer international transfers from the States to Thailand?

[jacko45k]

Just now, cyclone6 said:

So the advantage to an FCD account would be what?  Fewer international transfers from the States to Thailand?

You can chose to convert it to local currency at a time that suits you. It protects it's foreign currency value if you believe the Thai baht will lose value. You spread risk. 

[BertM]

6 hours ago, cyclone6 said:

So the advantage to an FCD account would be what?  Fewer international transfers from the States to Thailand?

You can open up 2 accounts at a Thai bank. In your case, one would be a USD account and the other a THB account. You then xfer USD from your US bank account to the USD Thai bank account and let it sit for as long as you want. Then you can convert the USD to THB at your convenience. You don't have to do that. You can just have a THB account, then the bank will automatically convert to THB when they receive your USD xfer at whatever the going exchange rate is that day. It's up to you if you want to let money sit in your USD account to try and play the exchange rate game. It works for me... You can get your US bank to convert USD to THB and send THB, but the exchange rate is usually worse than sending USD to your Thai bank and letting the Thai bank convert it. That is why I always send USD.

Edited November 24, 2019 by BertM