Bringing back money to the UK

[Europeanguy]

I am sure this must have been talked about previously but forgive me for not finding anything relevant or useful to me on the subject in this forum.

I bought a house in Udon Thani where I am very happy.

What I didn't appreciate when I decided to live here is that it could perhaps be difficult to get money back to the UK.

My pension money is in the UK, so I have control of the other way round (basically, I transfer how much I want). But I am worried of transferring back to the UK for my children's sake.

The question arises about my Thai will. It has the necessary clauses to get the proceeds of my house sale to my 3 children who all live in the UK. It could also arise if I wanted to go back to Europe, something I do not foresee though.

Following searches on the Internet, I picked up that at the very least I should have proof of the UK transfers to pay for the house. I have that.

My house is worth 10m Bahts (250,000£ / 330,000$) to give you an idea of how much I am talking about.

Is there any advice on a strategy to achieve such transfers back? It should take into account that in case of my passing I would obviously not be able to do anything about it. 

Perhaps a Thai or living in Thailand financial adviser contact?

I say "Thai adviser" because I found it impossible to find a UK financial adviser. They all say that they know nothing about it or say that they do not have the legal competence in that field. But I might be wrong and perhaps you know somebody in the UK.

Thank you for your time and attention.

Kind regards

[Jip99]

You didn't make it clear on what basis you enjoy ownership of the house ?

[Khon Kaen Jeff]

13 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

You didn't make it clear on what basis you enjoy ownership of the house ?

He bought it but just doesn;t own it ????

[UKresonant]

Kids are UK nationals, or do they have Thai dual nationality?

[Europeanguy]

You are right. I didn't make it clear. I didn't want to make my posting to be diluted and veer to something else by touching other issues, namely ownership in Thailand. But as you ask, I will answer. It will probably muddy the waters as my question really was pointed to "I have 10m Bahts in my pocket. How can I get it to the UK", and not the separate issue of property for foreigners in Thailand.

 

We all know that a foreigner cannot own in Thailand (apart from condos I understand). So my house is "owned" by my Thai wife. But an interest has been registered in the Land office that I paid for it. Furthermore, I have a legally binding usefruct contract saying that I can keep the property regardless of what my wife would want to do. Furthermore I have another legally binding contract with my wife saying that she has no rights whatsoever. She cannot do anything without my approval and I can do whatever I want without consulting her. All contracts drawn by Solicitors

 

I fear that answering your question will take this thread away for my question. But so be it, you asked, I answered.. I would be so grateful if somebody opened a new thread on the ownership issue and let people answer my question without deviating (sorry I repeat): "I have 10m Bahts in my pocket. How can I get it to the UK" .

 

Thank you all and kind regards

[Europeanguy]

1 hour ago, UKresonant said:

Kids are UK nationals, or do they have Thai dual nationality?

My children are all UK nationals and live in the UK. Not Thai. Children from my previous wife when I was living in the UK.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Europeanguy
missing information

[daveAustin]

When you brought monies into Thai to buy house, did you acquire banking certificate that states what said funds were for? Don't quote me on this (been a while), but if so, this paper is grounds for repatriating same monies from sale of property, I believe. It's a stop-fraud measure.

[saengd]

Under Thai law you could only have bought that house using funds that had been introduced into Thailand from overseas, you will have a bank letter issued to the Land Office when you bought the house stating that fact. The bank account that recieved those funds from overseas will have proof of where the funds originated, you will also have been issued with a foreign exchange form by the bank, at the time the funds were received.

 

All of the above confirms the funds used to buy your house originated from your account overseas.

 

When your house is sold your estate will have to pay tax on the sale and the Land Office will issue you with a blue tax paid receipt, that will clear the way for the banks to repatriate those funds.

[amykat]

I sold my house and sent the money back to myself in Bangkok Bank, the same account I sent the money to Thailand, in chunks of less than $50,000.   I had to go every week or ten days for a while.  I had a lot of paperwork to show but they never asked me.  
 

I think if you really want your kids to have that money you will need to do this before you die.  I am not sure you can will a house you do not own to them.  Your usufruct dies with you.  Then the owner owns the house free and clear of you and any obligations to you, as I understand it.

[lkv]

OP, do you want to sell the house now, or die in it?

 

If you die in it, there's no money, there is an asset to be sold, and proceeds to be distributed after judgements of Thai courts.

 

Not doing scaremonging, but there have been situations of foreigners losing assets through corrupt Thai courts due to forgery, working closely with corrupt lawyers hired by wives. Of living individuals, never mind dead.

 

Bank accounts get frozen, with or without money in them, when someone dies. If there is money in the account, that money will again be distributed through Courts.

 

If you die in your own house, you don't "have 10M baht in your pocket", but the heirs you nominate might have an asset to inherit and sell at market prices, assuming everything goes well.

 

Asset = the construction, not the land.

 

Usefruct is valid while alive, gives you the right not to be thrown out of the house until you die.

 

Any other current agreements with wife, valid while alive. They become void upon your death.

 

You should consult a lawyer, really.

Edited November 27, 2019 by lkv

[Orton Rd]

Why assume it could be sold at all, unless it's in a very popular area and a rock bottom price it might well be very difficult to sell

[saengd]

7 hours ago, amykat said:

I sold my house and sent the money back to myself in Bangkok Bank, the same account I sent the money to Thailand, in chunks of less than $50,000.   I had to go every week or ten days for a while.  I had a lot of paperwork to show but they never asked me.  
 

I think if you really want your kids to have that money you will need to do this before you die.  I am not sure you can will a house you do not own to them.  Your usufruct dies with you.  Then the owner owns the house free and clear of you and any obligations to you, as I understand it.

Yes, I think that's correct, a superficies is perhaps a better way to go.

[UKresonant]

All the before death options above, keep the transfer docs and copies in a very safe place.

 

Some of the complications of leaving the house as part of your estate are noted above. 

One angle I may have explored in your situation, was that the kids had loaned a component of the monies invested in the house, to be repaid on death, say £50k each, which would possibly give them some leverage to repatriate the money to the UK (proof of liability or invoice to transfer the money to the UK by the Thai executor or your wife), in conjunction with the totality of the will(s). 

In the UK, it is possible for the child(ren), to lend money to the parent, instead of them potentially taking equity release, similar concept.

I share the concerns above that the full purchase price of your property investment may not be realized on death.

When planning a will I look at leaving money to a few people rather than one, to make sure the estate will go to someone, to cover the "all in the same car crash" scenario, and possible tax and transfer problems. 

 

It is a good question, that I can find no packaged answer for, provokes thought certainly. As per all legal thinks, a probable outcome is maybe the  best available, there is likely not an off the shelf 100% perfect solution.

[Europeanguy]

16 hours ago, saengd said:

Under Thai law you could only have bought that house using funds that had been introduced into Thailand from overseas, you will have a bank letter issued to the Land Office when you bought the house stating that fact. The bank account that recieved those funds from overseas will have proof of where the funds originated, you will also have been issued with a foreign exchange form by the bank, at the time the funds were received.

 

All of the above confirms the funds used to buy your house originated from your account overseas.

 

When your house is sold your estate will have to pay tax on the sale and the Land Office will issue you with a blue tax paid receipt, that will clear the way for the banks to repatriate those funds.

Thank you all for all the answers. Food for thoughts. I have proof of the international transfers but nothing from the bank except statements of course. I will see what I can do.  Probably go back to the solicitor who drew all the contracts and put this aspect I did not think about at the time to him. He is a good man, he will help. Thank you all again.

[Europeanguy]

2 hours ago, UKresonant said:

All the before death options above, keep the transfer docs and copies in a very safe place.

 

Some of the complications of leaving the house as part of your estate are noted above. 

One angle I may have explored in your situation, was that the kids had loaned a component of the monies invested in the house, to be repaid on death, say £50k each, which would possibly give them some leverage to repatriate the money to the UK (proof of liability or invoice to transfer the money to the UK by the Thai executor or your wife), in conjunction with the totality of the will(s). 

In the UK, it is possible for the child(ren), to lend money to the parent, instead of them potentially taking equity release, similar concept.

I share the concerns above that the full purchase price of your property investment may not be realized on death.

When planning a will I look at leaving money to a few people rather than one, to make sure the estate will go to someone, to cover the "all in the same car crash" scenario, and possible tax and transfer problems. 

 

It is a good question, that I can find no packaged answer for, provokes thought certainly. As per all legal thinks, a probable outcome is maybe the  best available, there is likely not an off the shelf 100% perfect solution.

I posted on another post (same thread) my thanks to all who have answered. I extend it to you particularly as you are opening paths I didn't think about. I wish you had the packaged answer so you would be a millionaire ????. But thank you again all the same.

I will let people know here what comes out of my discussion with my solicitor. You rightly say that it is an important question for anybody with people they care about who do not live in Thailand.

Kind regards

[Europeanguy]

9 hours ago, saengd said:

Yes, I think that's correct, a superficies is perhaps a better way to go.

Excuse my ignorance but I do not now what you mean by superficies. It is the measure of a surface as far as I know and I do not know what it means in our context.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Europeanguy
forgot something

[saengd]

On 11/27/2019 at 11:36 PM, Europeanguy said:

Excuse my ignorance but I do not now what you mean by superficies. It is the measure of a surface as far as I know and I do not know what it means in our context.

"The usufruct gives the foreigner temporary ownership in land and buildings, while the superficies grants unlimited and inheritable house ownership on foreign land.” 

 

https://pugnatorius.com/usufruct/#:~:targetText=“The usufruct gives the foreigner,house ownership on foreign land.”

[Speedo1968]

As an ordinary layman I find the subject, terminology and comments fascinating.

I wish the OP a successful outcome that satisfies all parties.