Death Sentence Awarded To Drug Trafficker

[Jai Dee]

A man was sentenced to death for drug trafficking

The Criminal Court Thursday sentenced a 29-year-old man to death on drug-trafficking charges.

Jirasak Chatworaniti, aka Asun, earlier fled to China, but was arrested there and deported to Thailand last month.

Anti-narcotics police have identified Jirasak as a member of large drug-trafficking network in Thailand and Laos.

Other drug suspects implicated Jirasak, after they were caught with 60 bars of heroin and 137,800 meth-amphetamine pills in possession two years ago.

Source: The Nation - 30 March 2007

[Jai Dee]

A Criminal Court official accompanies 29-year-old Jirasak Chatworraniti into the courtroom, where he was sentenced to death for drug-trafficking in Thailand and Laos.

Source: The Nation - 30 March 2007

[LoveDaBlues]

som nam na

[PhilHarries]

som nam na

Yeah, though I'm opposed to the death penalty due to the vagaries of Thai justice, I'll not lose sleep over the passing of this one.

[aussiestyle1983]

I just wish Australia had a reciprical punishment system so those caught bringing drugs in and out of Australia would get punished the same way they would in their home country.

I don't approve the death penalty for drug related offences, but if western countries adopted this kind of system, people would think twice before trying to traffic drugs into other countries with light penalties.

Foriegners have been executed in Asian countries for drug trafficing, and many people from countries with the death penalty have trafficed drugs into western countries and got of lightly.

I say any country still using the death penatly for drug trafficing, the citizens of that country should also be punished in the same way if caught trafficing drugs into other countries.......................

[Tornado]

I say any country still using the death penatly for drug trafficing, the citizens of that country should also be punished in the same way if caught trafficing drugs into other countries.......................

I totally agree with you.

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

I say any country still using the death penatly for drug trafficing, the citizens of that country should also be punished in the same way if caught trafficing drugs into other countries.......................

I totally agree with you.

I will third that motion! Although as has been shown, even when the penalty is clearly stated as being death for trafficking people just seem to think "it only happens to others". I just cannot understand the mentality of these people! With the last case in Singapore everyone in Australia was jumping up and down about how unfair it all was that the guy got the death penalty and wanted the government to step in and stop it. If they didn't do it in the first place they would not be facing the death penalty and be back home. Don't do the crime if you can't face the punishment!

Cheers

[atlastaname]

All the usual predictable responses as always.

Before this thread gets inevitably closed down , as it most likely will, i will make one observation. Posters talk above about "light sentences" when what they mean is something in excess of 10 years at least. There is no way that is a light sentence, thats a heavy one . Have you people any idea how long 10 years is? It must seem like a lifetime. Yet people always say "light" sentences when offenders get put away sometimes for 15 years or more. Whatever the sentence the moralists will always say its not enough.... maybe they would be happier if they peeled the skin off him first and then gave him life? No... better still, peel the skin off him , flog him weekly , and give him life? No.... i'm sure you'll all say "its not enough" . Unless of course it was one of your own kids.... then it would be different i'm sure

[SamuiJens]

All the usual predictable responses as always.

Before this thread gets inevitably closed down , as it most likely will, i will make one observation. Posters talk above about "light sentences" when what they mean is something in excess of 10 years at least. There is no way that is a light sentence, thats a heavy one . Have you people any idea how long 10 years is? It must seem like a lifetime. Yet people always say "light" sentences when offenders get put away sometimes for 15 years or more. Whatever the sentence the moralists will always say its not enough.... maybe they would be happier if they peeled the skin off him first and then gave him life? No... better still, peel the skin off him , flog him weekly , and give him life? No.... i'm sure you'll all say "its not enough" . Unless of course it was one of your own kids.... then it would be different i'm sure

You hit the nail right on, IF it was their kid, then it would be a BIG mistake, since my kid doesn't do such things!

[atlastaname]

All the usual predictable responses as always.

Before this thread gets inevitably closed down , as it most likely will, i will make one observation. Posters talk above about "light sentences" when what they mean is something in excess of 10 years at least. There is no way that is a light sentence, thats a heavy one . Have you people any idea how long 10 years is? It must seem like a lifetime. Yet people always say "light" sentences when offenders get put away sometimes for 15 years or more. Whatever the sentence the moralists will always say its not enough.... maybe they would be happier if they peeled the skin off him first and then gave him life? No... better still, peel the skin off him , flog him weekly , and give him life? No.... i'm sure you'll all say "its not enough" . Unless of course it was one of your own kids.... then it would be different i'm sure

You hit the nail right on, IF it was their kid, then it would be a BIG mistake, since my kid doesn't do such things!

Exactly !!

[ajarnmark]

Seems like punishments week here in Thailand

This guy death penalty for drugs and another guy life sentence for murder. Seems equitable in a way that this guy might have killed hundreds, if not thousands and made equal number of families suffer. A small money and thousands or probably millions of people suffer from such acts.

Although, I do not like the idea of death penalty, however, I think if not death penalty than what could possibly stop him for doing any such thing in the future and deter the rest of the potential drug dealers.

As for a poster claiming that the laws of one country should apply to its citizens no matter where they committed the crime. Sounds like a good idea but it would defeat the very own purpose of the law, i.e. equal for everyone. For example if a Singaporean citizen get caught dealing in drugs in Australia then he should be hanged, seems unfair to me, as Australian law must be applied to everyone equally, same with the Singapore law, i.e. they dont care about how committed the crime, they apply the law equally IMO.

[Steely Dan]

Seems like punishments week here in Thailand

This guy death penalty for drugs and another guy life sentence for murder. Seems equitable in a way that this guy might have killed hundreds, if not thousands and made equal number of families suffer. A small money and thousands or probably millions of people suffer from such acts.

Although, I do not like the idea of death penalty, however, I think if not death penalty than what could possibly stop him for doing any such thing in the future and deter the rest of the potential drug dealers.

As for a poster claiming that the laws of one country should apply to its citizens no matter where they committed the crime. Sounds like a good idea but it would defeat the very own purpose of the law, i.e. equal for everyone. For example if a Singaporean citizen get caught dealing in drugs in Australia then he should be hanged, seems unfair to me, as Australian law must be applied to everyone equally, same with the Singapore law, i.e. they dont care about how committed the crime, they apply the law equally IMO.

Hmmm, 'might have killed hundreds if not thousands' I wonder how many Mr Chang or Mr Krung Thrip have killed, but then again they pay loads of tax and don't suffer the prohibition which leads to such price distortions that killing a drug trafficer is like cutting the head off the hydra as two more grow in it's place. I'm not saying the smuggler was motivated by anything other than greed, but lets try and mix some perspective with the morality.

[jasreeve17]

I have a fundamental problem ("yes we know", you are crying aloud.)

I don't trust the Thai police or prosecuters to tell the truth.

Thus, in such a country, the death penalty can never be just. The law is a complete and utter lie here. We all know this statement to be true.

SamuiJens; such statements are very dangerous. Particularly in such a corrupt country.

[sanget]

All the usual predictable responses as always.

Before this thread gets inevitably closed down , as it most likely will, i will make one observation. Posters talk above about "light sentences" when what they mean is something in excess of 10 years at least. There is no way that is a light sentence, thats a heavy one . Have you people any idea how long 10 years is? It must seem like a lifetime. Yet people always say "light" sentences when offenders get put away sometimes for 15 years or more. Whatever the sentence the moralists will always say its not enough.... maybe they would be happier if they peeled the skin off him first and then gave him life? No... better still, peel the skin off him , flog him weekly , and give him life? No.... i'm sure you'll all say "its not enough" . Unless of course it was one of your own kids.... then it would be different i'm sure

The sentences are light in relation to the harm and death they cause. I have many years of law enforcement experience and I can tell you that a sentence of 10-15 years for the agony and torture that drug dealers cause to people is very light. With execution, there is absolutely no recidivism! All the more power to the authorities for sending the clear message that death to dealers is a very viable deterrent.

[aussiestyle1983]

All the usual predictable responses as always.

Before this thread gets inevitably closed down , as it most likely will, i will make one observation. Posters talk above about "light sentences" when what they mean is something in excess of 10 years at least. There is no way that is a light sentence, thats a heavy one . Have you people any idea how long 10 years is? It must seem like a lifetime. Yet people always say "light" sentences when offenders get put away sometimes for 15 years or more. Whatever the sentence the moralists will always say its not enough.... maybe they would be happier if they peeled the skin off him first and then gave him life? No... better still, peel the skin off him , flog him weekly , and give him life? No.... i'm sure you'll all say "its not enough" . Unless of course it was one of your own kids.... then it would be different i'm sure

Don't assume you know what others are refering to as light scentances, unless you have ESP?

I call a light scentance for drug trafficking about up to 20 years, according to the crime of course .

But for the case mentioned, 10 years (which is the number you mentioned) would be a light scentance, even 20 years would be.

The scentance should be made according to the crime, so when you say 10 years is not a light scentance, how would you feel about a murderer getting only 10 years? Seems like a light scentance to me!

Edited March 31, 2007 by aussiestyle1983

[atlastaname]

All very easy to condemn others that are strangers to you . Lock em up and throw away the key ... thats what you all love. Unless of course it was one of your own....how many years would you like to see your sons get? Sanget wants them killed , his own flesh and blood, how about the rest of you ? Or is that different now?

As for the law enforcement officers ...well... wonder how much hurt and suffereing they have caused in the past by prosecuting and getting jailed innocent people . Like the recent case this week of Sally Clark from the UK. Wrongly convicted of killing her child , jailed in appalling conditions for several years , released eventually when found she was innocent...then killed herself cos she couldn't face the world anymore. Nice one Police .... you did a great job there , another one YOU have killed never mind the drug dealers

[MaiPenLai]

I just watched a 5-6 part series on the "Big Tiger" on You Tube last week. It was the first time cameras were allowed into the infamous Bangkok Hilton. It was produced by the BBC, made in 2003-2004 if I remember correctly.

There is some inequity in the way sentences are actually served by foreigners in Thailand. The prisoners that are interviewed make a valid point that most Europeans and North Americans really only serve 8 years and then go home to serve a couple of months and are released. This appears to be due to some kind of agreement between certain countries and Thailand.

The British prisoners interviewed were really upset as they had 50 year or more sentences and their government does not honor this agreement. I don't think they interviewed any Australian prisoners?

So the Thai system is actually quite soft if you are a foreigner.

They also interview Thai prisoners with death sentences. They get two hours notice that their sentence is being carried out.

I just would not want to spend one night at the Hilton.

Edited March 31, 2007 by MaiPenLai

[aussiestyle1983]

Can you please PM me the link to watch the youtoube video on Bangkwang.

[Nebukanezar]

I just wish Australia had a reciprical punishment system so those caught bringing drugs in and out of Australia would get punished the same way they would in their home country.

I don't approve the death penalty for drug related offences, but if western countries adopted this kind of system, people would think twice before trying to traffic drugs into other countries with light penalties.

Foriegners have been executed in Asian countries for drug trafficing, and many people from countries with the death penalty have trafficed drugs into western countries and got of lightly.

I say any country still using the death penatly for drug trafficing, the citizens of that country should also be punished in the same way if caught trafficing drugs into other countries.......................

Dude, didn't you just say :

I vote No.

A horible life in prison is good enough for the scum that deserves it.

In the last thread about the death penalty??? If your against it be against it, not flip flop when ever it sounds better to be for or against.

Anyway me personaly I say fry em up. Drugs only make the community worse and cause innocent deaths through collateral damage.

[markr]

I just wish Australia had a reciprical punishment system so those caught bringing drugs in and out of Australia would get punished the same way they would in their home country.

I don't approve the death penalty for drug related offences, but if western countries adopted this kind of system, people would think twice before trying to traffic drugs into other countries with light penalties.

Foriegners have been executed in Asian countries for drug trafficing, and many people from countries with the death penalty have trafficed drugs into western countries and got of lightly.

I say any country still using the death penatly for drug trafficing, the citizens of that country should also be punished in the same way if caught trafficing drugs into other countries.......................

Dude, didn't you just say :

I vote No.

A horible life in prison is good enough for the scum that deserves it.

In the last thread about the death penalty??? If your against it be against it, not flip flop when ever it sounds better to be for or against.

I see no contradiction there! he says no in both statements

Mark

Edited March 31, 2007 by markr

[JacknDanny]

All very easy to condemn others that are strangers to you . Lock em up and throw away the key ... thats what you all love. Unless of course it was one of your own....how many years would you like to see your sons get? Sanget wants them killed , his own flesh and blood, how about the rest of you ? Or is that different now?

As for the law enforcement officers ...well... wonder how much hurt and suffereing they have caused in the past by prosecuting and getting jailed innocent people . Like the recent case this week of Sally Clark from the UK. Wrongly convicted of killing her child , jailed in appalling conditions for several years , released eventually when found she was innocent...then killed herself cos she couldn't face the world anymore. Nice one Police .... you did a great job there , another one YOU have killed never mind the drug dealers

Nonsensical liberalist clap trap.

The above case, sad though it is,canot possibly be blamed on the police.

They arrested her, based on evidence they had.

In England it is NOT hte decision of the Police to prosecute, that is down to DPP.

She was found guilty by a jury NOT the police.

She was convicted as a result of mainly 2 issues, 1)Meadows Law (look it up)..2) The evidence of a now discredited paediatrician.

So get down off your liberal high horse and look at the facts.

In relation to the Thai case, there are laws in place for a good reason, no doubt if it was upto you then these scum bags who are peddling their filth would be given a rehabillitating programme at the tax payers expense and allowed to re offend time and time again.

Wake up and smell the coffee!!!!!!!!!!

[JacknDanny]

Can you please PM me the link to watch the youtoube video on Bangkwang.

There is an exceptional book called "The Last Executioner" which is the memoirs of Thailands last prison executioner.

Very well written and gives an insight into what happens at these executions.

[aussiestyle1983]

I just wish Australia had a reciprical punishment system so those caught bringing drugs in and out of Australia would get punished the same way they would in their home country.

I don't approve the death penalty for drug related offences, but if western countries adopted this kind of system, people would think twice before trying to traffic drugs into other countries with light penalties.

Foriegners have been executed in Asian countries for drug trafficing, and many people from countries with the death penalty have trafficed drugs into western countries and got of lightly.

I say any country still using the death penatly for drug trafficing, the citizens of that country should also be punished in the same way if caught trafficing drugs into other countries.......................

Dude, didn't you just say :

I vote No.

A horible life in prison is good enough for the scum that deserves it.

In the last thread about the death penalty??? If your against it be against it, not flip flop when ever it sounds better to be for or against.

I see no contradiction there! he says no in both statements

Mark

Nebukanezar: Obviously you can't read, or do your eyes just "FLIP FLOP" all over the place while you read so that you can only see what you want to see.

I vote "NO" to the death penalty as I said in BOTH my posts.

I just believe if western countries with weak penalty systems treated foriegners with a reciprical punishment system, it would hopefully deter alot of possible criminals and maybe countries such as Thailand would abolish the death penalty once its own citizens were subject to the same fate in other countries.

[aussiestyle1983]

Can you please PM me the link to watch the youtoube video on Bangkwang.

There is an exceptional book called "The Last Executioner" which is the memoirs of Thailands last prison executioner.

Very well written and gives an insight into what happens at these executions.

Thanks for that. That video on youtoube was also very interesting........................

I've just been thinking about visiting a random inmate there as quite afew people seem to do it, but after watching that video it seems like it could be a rather un-forgetable experience.

[Nebukanezar]

*sigh* just man up and accept your words Aussi you said "I say any country still using the death penatly for drug trafficing, the citizens of that country should also be punished in the same way if caught trafficing drugs into other countries......................."

What your saying here is if say a Saudi gets caught selling drugs in Aussi he should get his head cut the ###### off like they would for that offense in his country.

Yet you claim to; Vote NO, and say "I don't approve of the death penalty"

how can you condone it in your contry just because they do it in others, yet still Vote No, and not approve????

<deleted>???

I mean if your against it be against it, whats up with all the exclusions?

[aussiestyle1983]

*sigh* just man up and accept your words Aussi you said "I say any country still using the death penatly for drug trafficing, the citizens of that country should also be punished in the same way if caught trafficing drugs into other countries......................."

What your saying here is if say a Saudi gets caught selling drugs in Aussi he should get his head cut the ###### off like they would for that offense in his country.

Yet you claim to; Vote NO, and say "I don't approve of the death penalty"

how can you condone it in your contry just because they do it in others, yet still Vote No, and not approve????

<deleted>???

I mean if your against it be against it, whats up with all the exclusions?

I don't approve it. I say ALL countries should abolish the death penatly, but untill that happens, its only FAIR for ALL countries to use it.

I don't think its fair that some countries subject citizens of others countires to such a fate when the citizens of that very country get to smuggle drugs into others countries and get off a lot lighter..............

If an Aussie gets the death penalty in Saudi, then a Saudi should get the death penatly in Oz, that is FAIR. Once this started happening in sure some countires would abolish the death penalty after the execution of some of its citizens because they would no longer have the attitued "We can traffic drugs into your country but you can't traffic drugs into our country"

[Chris Lawrence]

There is a lot of literature out there that says the death penanlty doesn't work. Dimanond Jim McCelland wrote a good paper on this; also during the 70's in USA no one was put to death for a few years. When they did start the killing again the rates of homicides did not really decrease over time. The primary purpose of the death penalty is to act as a deterent.

From this perspective of changing people' fear of consequence nothing really changes.

However the politicians usually have a good win when you have a hanging. Sir Henry Bolte was returned to office after the last person in Australia was put to death. Prior to this he was well behind in the poles.

One of the outcomes here is that some people feel that a execution will change things for the families. Again listen or read some of the Nuns work; the one that was the writer of Dead Man Walking? Does talk about the work that has been done with survivors.

The other thing is no you cant say no to death penalty but still want reciprical rigths. That is in fact agreeing to a death penalty.

At one stage I did believe that it was the right to take anothers life. After doing some work in this area I have changed my view. Who is going to pull the rope; what if you did this and the person was inocent. Of course you do have more serious crime. At the end of the day, do you feel conferdent in handing this control to a politician.

I can think of nothing worse of spending 10 years let alone one day in a Thai prision. I read a good book by Warren Fellows, a terible crime but a terible time in prision. He spent a lot of time in Bankok prision.

The other problem is greed. The money is the wow factor in the drug trade.

This is just my 2 bob's worth.

[SamuiJens]

There is a lot of literature out there that says the death penanlty doesn't work. Dimanond Jim McCelland wrote a good paper on this; also during the 70's in USA no one was put to death for a few years. When they did start the killing again the rates of homicides did not really decrease over time. The primary purpose of the death penalty is to act as a deterent.

From this perspective of changing people' fear of consequence nothing really changes.

However the politicians usually have a good win when you have a hanging. Sir Henry Bolte was returned to office after the last person in Australia was put to death. Prior to this he was well behind in the poles.

One of the outcomes here is that some people feel that a execution will change things for the families. Again listen or read some of the Nuns work; the one that was the writer of Dead Man Walking? Does talk about the work that has been done with survivors.

The other thing is no you cant say no to death penalty but still want reciprical rigths. That is in fact agreeing to a death penalty.

At one stage I did believe that it was the right to take anothers life. After doing some work in this area I have changed my view. Who is going to pull the rope; what if you did this and the person was inocent. Of course you do have more serious crime. At the end of the day, do you feel conferdent in handing this control to a politician.

I can think of nothing worse of spending 10 years let alone one day in a Thai prision. I read a good book by Warren Fellows, a terible crime but a terible time in prision. He spent a lot of time in Bankok prision.

The other problem is greed. The money is the wow factor in the drug trade.

This is just my 2 bob's worth.

Right (Write) on! This is also my take on this, that sitting in ie. a Thai jail for 50 years, I'd rather have death. Maybe easy to say when not in their shoes, but those are my feelings on the subject.

Edited April 1, 2007 by SamuiJens

[astral]

I am not sure the Death Sentence is an "Award".

To me that word implies something good.................

[vegan]

hat a sentence of 10-15 years for the agony and torture that drug dealers cause to people is very light

It's not drug dealers who cause agony and torture, it's censorship and misinformation

Many people use drugs and there's not one place on earth where repression has shown to change this fact.

Governments can then repeat the same mistakes over and over again, or reconsider their policy.

Outlawing drugs creates the black market with the risks and violence it implies.

Put an end to the black market and put an end to this violence. Keep the prices as they should be on the legal market, and see drug related delinquency drop because there's no use for it anymore.

Put an end to the taboo surrounding drugs, and allow users to feel accepted in society and not choose marginal lifestyles that sometimes degenerate.

It's not the use of drugs that is dangerous, it's their misuse.

People unfortunately judge drugs, drug users and drug dealers, not on facts, but on myths widely spread without the slightest reflection.

Some are so ridiculous than anyone who stopped for a second to think about it would see them as the lies they are.

But everyone is too eager to draw conclusions about a subject they know little about, from a few sensational cases they vaguely recall.

Anyone who has used drugs knows that apart from a minority of users who indeed have issues with drugs, there is a huge majority of functional drug users to who drugs pose no more problems than the beer you take legally in a bar.

Actually, if you support any kind of punishment on drug dealers, you'd better do the same about your local 7-11 employees for selling cigarettes and alcohol.

Here are some statistics to get the facts right :

Annual Causes of Death in the United States

Tobacco 435,000

Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000

Alcohol 85,000

Microbial Agents 75,000

Toxic Agents 55,000

Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000

All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000

Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600

Marijuana 0

from http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm

But anyway, let's forget quickly about the fact that if governments cared about our health rather than just being on a witch hunt, they'd concentrate their efforts on tobacco and alcohol first.

And let's talk about other drugs.

There are exceptional cases of adverse reactions to recreational drugs, as there are to aspirin.

But in the huge majority of cases, it's not actually the drug itself that was responsible of the physical problem (such as death), but its misuse. And its misuse is due to disinformation. And disinformation is due to a policy of repression rather than help.

Does heroin kill the heroin addict?

Heroin in itself is an extremely safe drug that doesn't have negative effects on the body.

But the fact that it's illegal and the taboo that surrounds it forces users to use it irresponsibly and sometimes adopt unhealthy lifestyles.

If it were sold in pharmacies as it used to be, users would know exactly what they are buying. But when buying it off the street, they have no way to know the purity and may very well overdose on a potent batch while thinking that they are using the same amount as usually.

The ban on drugs doesn't just prevent people from knowing the purity of the product (= how much they are taking), but also from knowing the product itself.

There have for examples been a few fatalities of people who had taken PMA (para-methoxy-amphetamine) when thinking to be using ecstasy (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine).

It's only because those drugs are illegal that such risks exist.

When you go to a shop to buy a bottle of whiskey, you know you're not buying gasoline.

If you could go to the pharmacy to buy a 60mg pill of MDMA, you'd know you're not getting PMA.

But since governments insist on repression rather than information, people don't even have the slightest idea about what they are taking or how they should take it.

And this disinformation is quite dangerous.

It's responsible for instance for the few cases of "ecstasy deaths" by hyponatremia.

The pattern is the same : there is no information provided to drug users ; someone hears that "when you take ecstasy your temperature rises so you have to drink X liters of water" ; the person drinks too much water and dies of it.

And who's blamed for the death? Ecstasy

And who's to blame? Disinformation

There's always irresponsible behaviours, but the legality of drugs and diffusion of information certainly wouldn't encourage them.

So back to our drug dealer.

Why did he deal drugs? To make money.

Why did the car seller sell cars? To make money.

How many people are killed every day in car accidents?

Much more than by drug related incidents.

Is the car seller responsible for those deaths?

Or are the drivers?

Is the 7-11 salesman responsible for the death of the alcoholic and the victim of drunk driving accident?

Or are the alcoholic and the drunk drivers responsible?

Should we ban cars because they cause deaths?

Should we ban drugs because they cause deaths?

Should we ban peanuts because they cause hundreds of deaths by allergy each year?

Either you decide to live, or you decide to stay at home all your life to avoid risks.

But if you decide to go outside and live, there will be risks.

Some people life to practice sports, some like to play games, some like to take drugs.

All have their amount of risk ; but as long as those risks concern ourselves and not others, no one should try to take away from us our freedom to choose the life we wish.

You wish to drink : a dealer will sell you alcohol.

You wish to climb a mountain : a dealer will sell you shoes.

you wish to take drugs : a dealer will sell you drugs.

There may be a risk when drinking, climbing a mountain or taking drugs, but if you don't put the health of others in danger, it is your right to do it. And the dealer is to you no worse than the car dealer to who buys a car.

The real criminals, responsible for drugs' victims are those who prevent the diffusion of information because of ignorant a prioris about a topic they never considered with an open mind.