Erewin National Park - Forget Double Pricing

[Nebukanezar]

Personally I hate the double standards for the "farang" white skinned people. It is unjust BUT... I am able to relate to a tourist industry being from Las Vegas. In Las Vegas there are local discounts on everything. all you have to do is present your ID. It is how a touristy area makes its money FROM THE TOURISTS.

Unlike Las Vegas, Thailand does have natural resources but they are trying to increace revenue from their tourist industry. Makes perfect sense to me, HOWEVER...

Now as a resident of Thailand I would think that I would be granted these special local discounts, but nope, my skin color is too white.

I now operate a business in Koh Phangan. Certain Thais have told me that I need a Thai discount, and I asked why? Their answer is "because we are Thai". Well sorry Thailand, your people pay the same price as everyone else.

My wife (Thai) runs her own clothing shop here now. She is enacted the same policy of equality among ethnicities.

Yeah thats right it's a big conspiracy against the white man..... Got news for ya Mr. Duke I get the same treatment of double priceing and I have to fight it just as much as you do and I'm the same color as many of them.

They do that to forgrieners regaurdless of the color of their skin.

[qwertz]

Personally I hate the double standards for the "farang" white skinned people. It is unjust BUT... I am able to relate to a tourist industry being from Las Vegas. In Las Vegas there are local discounts on everything. all you have to do is present your ID. It is how a touristy area makes its money FROM THE TOURISTS.

Unlike Las Vegas, Thailand does have natural resources but they are trying to increace revenue from their tourist industry. Makes perfect sense to me, HOWEVER...

Now as a resident of Thailand I would think that I would be granted these special local discounts, but nope, my skin color is too white.

I now operate a business in Koh Phangan. Certain Thais have told me that I need a Thai discount, and I asked why? Their answer is "because we are Thai". Well sorry Thailand, your people pay the same price as everyone else.

My wife (Thai) runs her own clothing shop here now. She is enacted the same policy of equality among ethnicities.

Yeah thats right it's a big conspiracy against the white man..... Got news for ya Mr. Duke I get the same treatment of double priceing and I have to fight it just as much as you do and I'm the same color as many of them.

They do that to forgrieners regaurdless of the color of their skin.

Dual pricing and standards exist everywhere, in the OP's case it's in tourist land. If you're on their turf, wherever you are, you have to sit still for it or think again why you're there because the inevitable "If you can't hack it, go home" comment from the "I'm allright. Jack" brigade is a zero contribution for anyone looking for advice, as you've probably aready learned.

I could whinge too at my end of the world when I'm paying €330 per month for compulsory health cover and the so called refugees from Russia, Africa and Asia get it for nothing and get to jump the queue but I don't because I live comparatively well here. It's because I'm an EU national and they're not.

However, whinging won't cut the mustard. As an expat, you're there for a reason, family ties, fun, whatever - that's the situation, fait accompli - and you knew it before you went there.

BTW, I've always wondered why you expats haven't formed a national association and got a collective voice. There must be a few among you with legal training.

Just a thought, don't mind me, please post on.

[Mossfinn]

It looks like the voices of reason have prevailed!

And to repeat other posters, there is Double Pricing in an awful lot of places in the world, here a student town, you will see it everywhere, 10% discount if Student Card shown, no foreign languages required.

And this does wind you up when you have contributed more into the local community than a 3 year stint on the doss

Have a nice day

Good Luck

Moss

[popshirt]

I have never had a problem obtaining the senior discounted rate on the MRT (subway/underground) in Bkk. And I am astonishingly white. But I'm old.

[bangkapiboy]

Thing is -- I am okay with double pricing, as long as it is reasonable. 20B for locals and 400B for foreigners? That is way out of line. I just don't go to places with such extreme pricing strategies. I don't think anybody would care if locals were paying 20B and foreigners paid double at 40B, because this seems reasonable. Even though it is double price, none of us would get angry over it. But it's not double pricing -- it's at the point of insulting. So, I'm not going to insult myself by making myself feel bad paying such a price. Thailand should never forget the biggest reason foreigners come here -- because it is cheap.

[raro]

Had the same problem at the same park many years ago. Parents and Thai g/f in the car and that guard wanted 200 B per Farang and 20 Baht for the Thai.

I told that guy that I am working in Thailand, he didn't care. Showed my driving license, no avail. Told him in Thai (learned that one by heart... ) that I work like a Thai, pay taxes like a Thai and pay here 20 Baht like a Thai. Didn't impress him. Told him that I pay more taxes than he makes a salary, didn't impress him either.

I refused to enter the park, other cars lining up behind me. He said I can make a U-turn around the booth. I said I do not ENTER the park, and this means crossing the barrier.

Waited until he came out of the booth and rearranged the cars behind me so that I could back-up out of the driveway.

Am I a <deleted>? Possibly yes. Do I care? No.

Enough other nice places to see!

[jdinasia]

Thing is -- I am okay with double pricing, as long as it is reasonable. 20B for locals and 400B for foreigners? That is way out of line. I just don't go to places with such extreme pricing strategies. I don't think anybody would care if locals were paying 20B and foreigners paid double at 40B, because this seems reasonable. Even though it is double price, none of us would get angry over it. But it's not double pricing -- it's at the point of insulting. So, I'm not going to insult myself by making myself feel bad paying such a price. Thailand should never forget the biggest reason foreigners come here -- because it is cheap.

Sadly you'll miss some WONDERFUL places ... by being cheap. Erawan National Park is great! (not sure that I'd go unless there had been some rain recently ....)it isn't 'double pricing' we are referring to here ... it is 2-tier pricing. Frankly well worth it to have western toilets and a few signs in English until you are adapted to being in the country ....

The places where I find it offensive is at privately run tourist traps like a Croc farm ... There's where I won't pay. But since I can speak Thai and read it ... I watch for the travel fairs in BKK and other places and go and get tix there.

[KhunMarco]

Thing is -- I am okay with double pricing, as long as it is reasonable. 20B for locals and 400B for foreigners? That is way out of line. I just don't go to places with such extreme pricing strategies. I don't think anybody would care if locals were paying 20B and foreigners paid double at 40B, because this seems reasonable. Even though it is double price, none of us would get angry over it. But it's not double pricing -- it's at the point of insulting. So, I'm not going to insult myself by making myself feel bad paying such a price. Thailand should never forget the biggest reason foreigners come here -- because it is cheap.

Sadly you'll miss some WONDERFUL places ... by being cheap. Erawan National Park is great! (not sure that I'd go unless there had been some rain recently ....)it isn't 'double pricing' we are referring to here ... it is 2-tier pricing. Frankly well worth it to have western toilets and a few signs in English until you are adapted to being in the country ....

The places where I find it offensive is at privately run tourist traps like a Croc farm ... There's where I won't pay. But since I can speak Thai and read it ... I watch for the travel fairs in BKK and other places and go and get tix there.

Ha the envy, taking a crap in a national park at 400 baht a shot (2-3 days of avg Thai wage, just to keep things in context) ,must feel great, thank you but no thank you

[jdinasia]

Thing is -- I am okay with double pricing, as long as it is reasonable. 20B for locals and 400B for foreigners? That is way out of line. I just don't go to places with such extreme pricing strategies. I don't think anybody would care if locals were paying 20B and foreigners paid double at 40B, because this seems reasonable. Even though it is double price, none of us would get angry over it. But it's not double pricing -- it's at the point of insulting. So, I'm not going to insult myself by making myself feel bad paying such a price. Thailand should never forget the biggest reason foreigners come here -- because it is cheap.

Sadly you'll miss some WONDERFUL places ... by being cheap. Erawan National Park is great! (not sure that I'd go unless there had been some rain recently ....)it isn't 'double pricing' we are referring to here ... it is 2-tier pricing. Frankly well worth it to have western toilets and a few signs in English until you are adapted to being in the country ....

The places where I find it offensive is at privately run tourist traps like a Croc farm ... There's where I won't pay. But since I can speak Thai and read it ... I watch for the travel fairs in BKK and other places and go and get tix there.

Ha the envy, taking a crap in a national park at 400 baht a shot (2-3 days of avg Thai wage, just to keep things in context) ,must feel great, thank you but no thank you

Bored in Italy this evening?

But that's OK ... I've seen and experienced 2 tier princing there too

[cclub75]

Get over it, you don't pay Tax, Taxes support the park and pay that man's salary. 400 baht is not a big deal, you say it's more than the average Thai pays in a month... They are paying it all year every year their entire lives, and you wanna bitch about a month??? Suck it up.

It's pathetic to see foreigners repeating ad nauseam the stupid statements given by the thai authorities... without interconnecting a few neurones.

"You don't pay taxes, so you pay 400 THB for natural park".

What about the... VAT ?

Everybody pay the VAT, thais and foreigners alike. And foreigners more because they spend more.

It's simple as that.

But of course, if you ask a guy from Revenue department, he would be able to say that Income taxes pay for natural parks expenses. And VAT revenues pay for other parts of the government budget.

I mean it wouldn't be surprising.

As for the issue of dual pricing, I think it's not shocking, it's only sad. Because by doing that the thais... put themselves in an inferior state, a third world state. It's like a stupid statement : "foreigners are superiors". Talk about loosing face...

[jdinasia]

Get over it, you don't pay Tax, Taxes support the park and pay that man's salary. 400 baht is not a big deal, you say it's more than the average Thai pays in a month... They are paying it all year every year their entire lives, and you wanna bitch about a month??? Suck it up.

It's pathetic to see foreigners repeating ad nauseam the stupid statements given by the thai authorities... without interconnecting a few neurones.

"You don't pay taxes, so you pay 400 THB for natural park".

What about the... VAT ?

Everybody pay the VAT, thais and foreigners alike. And foreigners more because they spend more.

It's simple as that.

But of course, if you ask a guy from Revenue department, he would be able to say that Income taxes pay for natural parks expenses. And VAT revenues pay for other parts of the government budget.

I mean it wouldn't be surprising.

As for the issue of dual pricing, I think it's not shocking, it's only sad. Because by doing that the thais... put themselves in an inferior state, a third world state. It's like a stupid statement : "foreigners are superiors". Talk about loosing face...

You don't pay income tax here in all liklihood ...... and if you really ARE a tourist you are paying taxes on what you spend FAR lower than what you would at home ... if you are a tourist here and make any major "for a Thai" purchases from many places you get your VAT back. If you don't think where you come from has 2 tier pricing list where it is and I bet I can find an example

BTW .... a flat tax like VAT is FAR more painful to the average Thai than it is to a foriegner. 7% of 7000 baht total income/mo while still only 7% hurts more than a sliding tax would where the poorest wouldn't pay it.

Again ... if you get a Thai Driver's license or WP etc ... you'll pay local prices ....

in the USA our Uni's have 3 tier pricing ... and what they charge foriegners is embarassing!

Edited March 31, 2007 by jdinasia

[KhunMarco]

Thing is -- I am okay with double pricing, as long as it is reasonable. 20B for locals and 400B for foreigners? That is way out of line. I just don't go to places with such extreme pricing strategies. I don't think anybody would care if locals were paying 20B and foreigners paid double at 40B, because this seems reasonable. Even though it is double price, none of us would get angry over it. But it's not double pricing -- it's at the point of insulting. So, I'm not going to insult myself by making myself feel bad paying such a price. Thailand should never forget the biggest reason foreigners come here -- because it is cheap.

Sadly you'll miss some WONDERFUL places ... by being cheap. Erawan National Park is great! (not sure that I'd go unless there had been some rain recently ....)it isn't 'double pricing' we are referring to here ... it is 2-tier pricing. Frankly well worth it to have western toilets and a few signs in English until you are adapted to being in the country ....

The places where I find it offensive is at privately run tourist traps like a Croc farm ... There's where I won't pay. But since I can speak Thai and read it ... I watch for the travel fairs in BKK and other places and go and get tix there.

Ha the envy, taking a crap in a national park at 400 baht a shot (2-3 days of avg Thai wage, just to keep things in context) ,must feel great, thank you but no thank you

Bored in Italy this evening?

But that's OK ... I've seen and experienced 2 tier princing there too

Actually I'm in Krabi atm, however I'm sure some sort of 2 tier pricing is existent in every country but 20 times is simply greed, there's no way it can be justified.

You know what, I've never seen a sign in Italy with a 2 tier pricing, museums, parks etc. Honest!

Care to tell me where it happened if you don't mind? Just curious

I even tried a search on google and couldn't find a thing... guess what, a lot of Thailand results though

[retiredusn]

Get over it, you don't pay Tax, Taxes support the park and pay that man's salary. 400 baht is not a big deal, you say it's more than the average Thai pays in a month... They are paying it all year every year their entire lives, and you wanna bitch about a month??? Suck it up.

Now, if it was a PRIVATE company like say Mini Siam in Pattaya that is supported by customers and charges forginers a higher price I would say SCREW them thats just bigotry at it's finest.

But Tax is Tax, if you pay taxes then it should be the same price for you too.

Yeah, but I PAY TAX in this country and have done so for many years. Indeed, I'm 100% legal here in terms of tax card, work permit, tabien ban, visa, drivers's license, etc. And my opinion is that 400 baht is an utter ripoff.

I also am completly legal in Thailand (retirement visa) and pay tax everyday be it gas or food sales at tesco the only time I go to the national parks is when invited and as such expect to be paid for as a guest, when my thai friends have to pay for me they have no problems yelling at the gate keepers ect. several have sent emails and letters to the goverment asking how to change this injustice

[andook]

The National Park across -the-board fee of 400 B for foreigners does tend to rankle a bit. Especially when a lot of farangs see this as a subsidy for Thais to litter and spoil a beautiful location.

As for perceived double-pricing, get used to it. Or shop in places where everybody pays the same price, like Tesco or something. Brush up on the language / bartering skills otherwise.

[jumnien]

For those with an aversion to differential pricing I highly advise not to go to Chatuchak market where bargaining is the norm. It's funny how many foreigners complain of the extraordinary differential in price at national parks 400/20, but quite often buy DVD's and CD's at vastly lower prices than in their home countries. I guess the only place some people will feel comfortable is eating at McDonald's and Burger King with their set meal pricing policy. Of course, they charge white men a cheaper price for a Big Mac combo in Bangkok than they charge a black man in Denver for the same meal. I'm not sure this is a big political issue, it just is the way it is.

[Xangsamhua]

I also am completly legal in Thailand (retirement visa) and pay tax everyday be it gas or food sales at tesco the only time I go to the national parks is when invited and as such expect to be paid for as a guest, when my thai friends have to pay for me they have no problems yelling at the gate keepers ect. several have sent emails and letters to the goverment asking how to change this injustice

I don't get fussed personally about the two-tier thing. TIT and nothing surprises me. But it does leave a bad taste in the mouth of foreign visitors and embarrasses their Thai hosts who take them to these places. Most times the work permit is enough, but not always. I recently went to a beautiful national park (Nam Tok Pliw) in Chanthaburi with Thai friends and they were upset at the 400 baht foreign rate (40 baht for Thais), though there was no problem for me because of the DL. Perhaps 200 baht would be more acceptable. I think even my passivity would have been shaken had I actually had to pay 400 baht (400 baht!!!).

Actually I was more put out by the sight of foreign tourists at the park walking from their bus to the waterfalls (through a street full of shops and people) wearing bikinis and g-strings. Unfortunately they weren't all Bo Dereks either (far from it). They needed some warning from their tour guides about Thai standards of modesty in dress (but maybe if you're being ripped off on the price, anything is permissible).

I emailed TAT about both issues.

[Xangsamhua]

For those with an aversion to differential pricing I highly advise not to go to Chatuchak market where bargaining is the norm. It's funny how many foreigners complain of the extraordinary differential in price at national parks 400/20, but quite often buy DVD's and CD's at vastly lower prices than in their home countries. I guess the only place some people will feel comfortable is eating at McDonald's and Burger King with their set meal pricing policy. Of course, they charge white men a cheaper price for a Big Mac combo in Bangkok than they charge a black man in Denver for the same meal. I'm not sure this is a big political issue, it just is the way it is.

Buying pirated CDs and DVDs is theft, not differential pricing. Everyone does it, but it's still a form of theft.

[Neeranam]

Whilst farang are often charged more than Thais, there are many things that work in our favour. I am let off by traffic police all the time, for example, especially with my little one in the car. I can get discount that Thais wouldn't have the nerve to ask for, and better service in shops. Bank workers go out of their way to help me. I don't lose face very easily, which enables me to get away with a lot more than my Thai brothers and sisters.

Thai people are not all after money(anymore than foreigners) and the longer I live out of Bangkok/tourist areas, I realise this.

I hate to hear the farang saying, "they can't do this to me, do you know what would happen in United Farangland if they did this?". Quite simply, I have started a new life in a country, which will never accept me as one of them, even if I pass a degree in Thai, become a monk, or have Toxin's daughter as a "mia noi".

I have to chill out and adjust certain ideas and attitudes. I must remember that this is not my home country, and therefore has different ways of doing things. Christ, that is one of the reasons I love it here. I used to want them to keep doing the things I liked and stop doing the things I didn't like. What a shity attitude!

Realise what I can change and what I can't. Don't let the things that you can't get on top of you, they're not worth it. Once you have done this, weigh up the pros and cons of living in a new land and decide if it is for me or not. I have not been sentenced to live in Thailand, it is my choice.

Some things like double pricing are the Thai way an I sometimes think I should simply respect their decision - when I do this I usually see that they have a valid reason for doing something that thought 'racist' or unfair.

It's my fear of being take advantage of that I have to address. "can't have them Thais getting the better of ME, the almighty!

I know that if I want to become a Thai citizen I can, but when I weigh up all the pros and cons, I would rather keep my British passport.

If I were selling DVDs and a farang(who didn't speak Thai) came along buying for the woman and her kids I'd try and rip him of too.

If a foreigner who was much richer than I came to my country and couldn't speak a word of English, I'd charge him more and probably have a good laugh about it.

Some of us farang, whether we like it or not, have MUG written on our foreheads.

The longer I stay here the less visible it becomes to Thais, and the more obvious other people's becomes. To Thais, it very obvious.

N N

Edited April 1, 2007 by Neeranam

[Maigo6]

Thai people are not all after money(anymore than foreigners) and the longer I live out of Bangkok/tourist areas, I realise this.

I have to chill out and adjust certain ideas and attitudes. I must remember that this is not my home country, and therefore has different ways of doing things. Christ, that is one of the reasons I love it here. I used to want them to keep doing the things I liked and stop doing the things I didn't like. What a shity attitude!

Realise what I can change and what I can't. Don't let the things that you can't get on top of you, they're not worth it. Once you have done this, weigh up the pros and cons of living in a new land and decide if it is for me or not. I have not been sentenced to live in Thailand, it is my choice.

Neeranam, that's a great point. ( amongst other good points ).

Good post mate.

I wonder how many Farangs would have the Thai Citizenship over their own Countries citizenship just to enter National Parks at the 40 Baht rate.

Edited April 1, 2007 by Maigo6

[Furbie]

Had the same problem at the same park many years ago. Parents and Thai g/f in the car and that guard wanted 200 B per Farang and 20 Baht for the Thai.

I told that guy that I am working in Thailand, he didn't care. Showed my driving license, no avail. Told him in Thai (learned that one by heart... ) that I work like a Thai, pay taxes like a Thai and pay here 20 Baht like a Thai. Didn't impress him. Told him that I pay more taxes than he makes a salary, didn't impress him either.

I refused to enter the park, other cars lining up behind me. He said I can make a U-turn around the booth. I said I do not ENTER the park, and this means crossing the barrier.

Waited until he came out of the booth and rearranged the cars behind me so that I could back-up out of the driveway.

Am I a <deleted>? Possibly yes. Do I care? No.

Enough other nice places to see!

I have had the same problem. Speak Thai, have DL, have WP - still had to pay 400 baht to get in on a recent trip. Kills me because that 400 baht does not go to improving anything, facilities are terrible, and nobody is cleaning the place up. This does not hold true across the board, as I was impressed at how clean Bamboo Island is - but having gone to many parks, I can say that when it was 200 it was too much, 400 is a joke.

[KhunMarco]

To Maigo6 , I don' really understand what you are still doing in this forum, with all these people complaining again and again, it's obvious that you don't like what you see here... YET you keep reading and posting... sounds familiar??????

I don't know what you expect from a forum where most of the members are expats, expatriating is a difficult thing, even in an "easy" country like Thailand. I agree some people should think carefully before posting insulting comments about Thais and their country, I don't like that and I've been guilty of the same stupid behavior in the past.

But really, you can't expect people posting only about good experiences, that's not human nature

Lol just take a look at a tech forum, it's full of people complaining about bugs, or technical problems, you seldom read " Oh happy day, your software/product is so perfect, I feel so good!" . Ain't gonna happen, people express their frustrations with much more emphasis.

I think you are not looking at the whole picture, if this forum disturbs you so much because of the negativity, quit reading it, really I quit reading newspaper and watching tv for the same reason, it was too much pressure.

I feel much better now.

edit: or even better, read only posts with positive titles, that's what I do in this country, I try to avoid the negative aspects and enjoy the rest

Edited April 1, 2007 by KhunMarco

[Nebukanezar]

Whilst farang are often charged more than Thais, there are many things that work in our favour. I am let off by traffic police all the time, for example, especially with my little one in the car. I can get discount that Thais wouldn't have the nerve to ask for, and better service in shops. Bank workers go out of their way to help me. I don't lose face very easily, which enables me to get away with a lot more than my Thai brothers and sisters.

Thai people are not all after money(anymore than foreigners) and the longer I live out of Bangkok/tourist areas, I realise this.

I hate to hear the farang saying, "they can't do this to me, do you know what would happen in United Farangland if they did this?". Quite simply, I have started a new life in a country, which will never accept me as one of them, even if I pass a degree in Thai, become a monk, or have Toxin's daughter as a "mia noi".

I have to chill out and adjust certain ideas and attitudes. I must remember that this is not my home country, and therefore has different ways of doing things. Christ, that is one of the reasons I love it here. I used to want them to keep doing the things I liked and stop doing the things I didn't like. What a shity attitude!

Realise what I can change and what I can't. Don't let the things that you can't get on top of you, they're not worth it. Once you have done this, weigh up the pros and cons of living in a new land and decide if it is for me or not. I have not been sentenced to live in Thailand, it is my choice.

Some things like double pricing are the Thai way an I sometimes think I should simply respect their decision - when I do this I usually see that they have a valid reason for doing something that thought 'racist' or unfair.

It's my fear of being take advantage of that I have to address. "can't have them Thais getting the better of ME, the almighty!

I know that if I want to become a Thai citizen I can, but when I weigh up all the pros and cons, I would rather keep my British passport.

If I were selling DVDs and a farang(who didn't speak Thai) came along buying for the woman and her kids I'd try and rip him of too.

If a foreigner who was much richer than I came to my country and couldn't speak a word of English, I'd charge him more and probably have a good laugh about it.

Some of us farang, whether we like it or not, have MUG written on our foreheads.

The longer I stay here the less visible it becomes to Thais, and the more obvious other people's becomes. To Thais, it very obvious.

N N

Great Points, The last part about the MUGS sums it up well. I always said "If you look like food you will be eaten!" Thats not to say the we should just suck up unfair double priceing and just bend over and take it. No, but we can arm ourselves in many ways, learn the lanuage enough to get your numbers down and to tell them your not stupid. I found that so long as I could relate to them I'm not a moron and I could negotiate in Thai numbers, smile and make a game out of it I usualy got damm good prices in markets and with vendors. Though for hotels I still use my fiance' as the dule teir hotel rates just are too much for my paticence to handle.

Anyway, I usaly like this lil gem and perhaps neeranam you can correct my pronuciation. This works lovely when your at a stand and they tell you something stupid like 300baht for a dvd or something.

"Pben Heeeeya Arai? Pom mai dai quai!.............nong/pi (age dependant) jing talai?"

Loosly translated : "<deleted> is this??? I'm not stupid (Buffalo) Bro/Sis whats the real price?

I like the looks I get when I whip that out.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm not much of a nature-boy, but when I've gone to national parks, etc. I have mostly been with school groups- kinda hard to deny I'm working here in those situations! Otherwise my various papers have always been accepted in other touristy places to get me the local rate.

[ThaiFelix]

I'm not much of a nature-boy, but when I've gone to national parks, etc. I have mostly been with school groups- kinda hard to deny I'm working here in those situations! Otherwise my various papers have always been accepted in other touristy places to get me the local rate.

Yep, I just flash my school ID card (teacher) and dont ever have a problem. I also try to be as Thai as possible. I cant speak Thai but try to and I show respect. Its usually works for me. When it hasnt it has been because I havnt been able to control my temper!

[StickKettleOn]

The guy at the gate of The National Park is just doing his job, and being paid about 3500 - 4000 Baht per month.

Those rates for Farangs are laid down by the higher powers, not the humble National Park worker.

I can't understand why you would go into the park after paying the 400 Baht, then come on here whining about the CHOICE you made..................you could have refused to go in.

Simple. Because I am not a cheap charlie and i had my GF, and two children in the car. had it been 3000 baht, i would still have gone in as it was there day, not mine, and i wanted them to enjoy it. Clearly, you are missing my point. Its not about the money - its the principle. I dont mind paying a little extra if i have to - but 2000% extra? 20B Vs 400B? Its so typicly Thai; no inteligent logic prevails with these people sometimes. How do they arive at 400B? Let me tell you how.... some bloated official sat in his office with one eye on chanel 7 and one eye on the papaer. His brief for the day was 'arive at a suitable pricing system for ferang Vs local people.' In a split second, he arived at 400B. Just because he could. It pisses me off. To put this in a context that they would apreciate, it would be like charging your average Thai £800 for a standard seat at any English football game.

You are like the Farangs that buy houses in a Thai womens name, then come onto Internet forums complaining about the Land ownership laws, they already knew the laws, yet they still paid for a house.

I fail to see the corolation between spending 5/10/15 million baht on a house and 400 baht at a national park. Think of a relavent analogy, and i will be happy to debate with you. Your anology is just stupid mate.

Will farangs never cease their constant whining about how hard done by they are in Thailand ?

Constant? choose any thread at random on this forum and you will read thoughts and opinions of a posotive nature. A little 'whining' here and there is hardly 'constant'. In this case, it is deserved.

Jesus h Christ, nobody is chaining you up to keep you here, think how lucky you are having that passport that can take you to almost any country you choose, the majority of Thai people do not have that choice. They are stuck here, you ain't!

Thats the age old argument of a blinkered being - if you dont like it, go home. Not a very inteligent answer now is it?

I just cant grasp the logic behind this mark up. 400B Vs 20B? I want to know the real reason behind the thinking... Is it because i am a westener, and clearly can afford it? Or is it because they presume i dont pay taxes? (owing to my basic Thai) and should contribute?

Either way, i disagree with both reasons. Yes, i can afford it - but i do enough thank you very much. On that very day i brought a new bycicle for a 5 year old kid who lives three streets away that I hardly know - but took pity on as his father just buggered off to the other side of the country with his new wife and the wee fella needed cheering up. Aware that i may be percived as 'that bloody ferang flashing his cash' i made a point of insisting to his Mum that the bike came from her, not me, and not to tell anyone i brought it. I could give examples like this all day. I, like so many ofus, contribute to Thailand in many, many ways. They benefit from my being here. But all these things are my choices - its up to me if i want to buy a kid a new bike. Having someone TELL me i must be genorous and pay 20 times more than a local just pisses me off.

And even if i didnt pay taxes - I would guess that the taxes generated from one toursit on a 2 week holiday is likely the same as the average Thais tax for an entire year! In short i guess what i am saying is this; we do enough already and we contibute vast revenues to LOS. So dont take this piss.

<deleted> to them anyway. I am unsure of the reason, but something has sparked a negative fire in my belly with this. Its made me sit up and think a little more. If they want to rob me - fine... they cant have it both ways. My attitude is changing now. I went out for a meal at the local rstraunt tonight and the waitress looked at me funny when i only left a 20 baht tip, as aposed to my usual 200. <deleted>. If they want to nibble me for being white - i will stopbeing so genorous and recoup where i can.

To quote an earlier poster - Am i acting like a <deleted>? Probably. Do i care? No.

Edited April 1, 2007 by StickKettleOn

[jdinasia]

Whilst farang are often charged more than Thais, there are many things that work in our favour. I am let off by traffic police all the time, for example, especially with my little one in the car. I can get discount that Thais wouldn't have the nerve to ask for, and better service in shops. Bank workers go out of their way to help me. I don't lose face very easily, which enables me to get away with a lot more than my Thai brothers and sisters.

Thai people are not all after money(anymore than foreigners) and the longer I live out of Bangkok/tourist areas, I realise this.

I hate to hear the farang saying, "they can't do this to me, do you know what would happen in United Farangland if they did this?". Quite simply, I have started a new life in a country, which will never accept me as one of them, even if I pass a degree in Thai, become a monk, or have Toxin's daughter as a "mia noi".

I have to chill out and adjust certain ideas and attitudes. I must remember that this is not my home country, and therefore has different ways of doing things. Christ, that is one of the reasons I love it here. I used to want them to keep doing the things I liked and stop doing the things I didn't like. What a shity attitude!

Realise what I can change and what I can't. Don't let the things that you can't get on top of you, they're not worth it. Once you have done this, weigh up the pros and cons of living in a new land and decide if it is for me or not. I have not been sentenced to live in Thailand, it is my choice.

Some things like double pricing are the Thai way an I sometimes think I should simply respect their decision - when I do this I usually see that they have a valid reason for doing something that thought 'racist' or unfair.

It's my fear of being take advantage of that I have to address. "can't have them Thais getting the better of ME, the almighty!

I know that if I want to become a Thai citizen I can, but when I weigh up all the pros and cons, I would rather keep my British passport.

If I were selling DVDs and a farang(who didn't speak Thai) came along buying for the woman and her kids I'd try and rip him of too.

If a foreigner who was much richer than I came to my country and couldn't speak a word of English, I'd charge him more and probably have a good laugh about it.

Some of us farang, whether we like it or not, have MUG written on our foreheads.

The longer I stay here the less visible it becomes to Thais, and the more obvious other people's becomes. To Thais, it very obvious.

N N

Great Points, The last part about the MUGS sums it up well. I always said "If you look like food you will be eaten!" Thats not to say the we should just suck up unfair double priceing and just bend over and take it. No, but we can arm ourselves in many ways, learn the lanuage enough to get your numbers down and to tell them your not stupid. I found that so long as I could relate to them I'm not a moron and I could negotiate in Thai numbers, smile and make a game out of it I usualy got damm good prices in markets and with vendors. Though for hotels I still use my fiance' as the dule teir hotel rates just are too much for my paticence to handle.

Anyway, I usaly like this lil gem and perhaps neeranam you can correct my pronuciation. This works lovely when your at a stand and they tell you something stupid like 300baht for a dvd or something.

"Pben Heeeeya Arai? Pom mai dai quai!.............nong/pi (age dependant) jing talai?"

Loosly translated : "<deleted> is this??? I'm not stupid (Buffalo) Bro/Sis whats the real price?

I like the looks I get when I whip that out.

lol ... no ... that isn't even close to loosely translated ..... look up 'mai dai' (the rest of that sentence is just as bad)

[Shah Jahan]

They did this S**T in pai after having the hotsprings free for years. What actually happened was that the man in change in BKK petitioned to have the Thaepe Hot Springs annexed into Huai Nam Dang National Park so that his office could apply an entrance fee. So suddenly one day it was 20b for thai and 400b for whitey.

this is a place where tourists and locals go to bathe everyday. Well what ended up happening is all the local falang organized and refused to pay and started sneaking in, then they started doing Ghandi protests where they parked their motorbikes on the outskirts and calmly walked into the gates and went to bathe while ignoring the curses and shouting of the guards.

the funniest thing was when they shouted that they would call the police

i would love to see the police get off their butts to drive 10km to respond to a call of a falang refusing to pay 400b to get into the always free hotsprings

in other cases there were verbal confrontations and even a physical confrontation where the guard involved was never seen again. (not good face to assault a falang backpacker)

well eventually the people that ran the hot springs on a day to day basis called a truce and kept trying to charge the fee, but locals or people who put up a fuss, they just started ignoring.

but its still not good for tourism - because all the tourists will still have to pay the fee to get in and approx %90 of them turn right around and dont enter with a crappy feeling in their stomachs. Way to kill tourism guys.

[Nebukanezar]

Whilst farang are often charged more than Thais, there are many things that work in our favour. I am let off by traffic police all the time, for example, especially with my little one in the car. I can get discount that Thais wouldn't have the nerve to ask for, and better service in shops. Bank workers go out of their way to help me. I don't lose face very easily, which enables me to get away with a lot more than my Thai brothers and sisters.

Thai people are not all after money(anymore than foreigners) and the longer I live out of Bangkok/tourist areas, I realise this.

I hate to hear the farang saying, "they can't do this to me, do you know what would happen in United Farangland if they did this?". Quite simply, I have started a new life in a country, which will never accept me as one of them, even if I pass a degree in Thai, become a monk, or have Toxin's daughter as a "mia noi".

I have to chill out and adjust certain ideas and attitudes. I must remember that this is not my home country, and therefore has different ways of doing things. Christ, that is one of the reasons I love it here. I used to want them to keep doing the things I liked and stop doing the things I didn't like. What a shity attitude!

Realise what I can change and what I can't. Don't let the things that you can't get on top of you, they're not worth it. Once you have done this, weigh up the pros and cons of living in a new land and decide if it is for me or not. I have not been sentenced to live in Thailand, it is my choice.

Some things like double pricing are the Thai way an I sometimes think I should simply respect their decision - when I do this I usually see that they have a valid reason for doing something that thought 'racist' or unfair.

It's my fear of being take advantage of that I have to address. "can't have them Thais getting the better of ME, the almighty!

I know that if I want to become a Thai citizen I can, but when I weigh up all the pros and cons, I would rather keep my British passport.

If I were selling DVDs and a farang(who didn't speak Thai) came along buying for the woman and her kids I'd try and rip him of too.

If a foreigner who was much richer than I came to my country and couldn't speak a word of English, I'd charge him more and probably have a good laugh about it.

Some of us farang, whether we like it or not, have MUG written on our foreheads.

The longer I stay here the less visible it becomes to Thais, and the more obvious other people's becomes. To Thais, it very obvious.

N N

Great Points, The last part about the MUGS sums it up well. I always said "If you look like food you will be eaten!" Thats not to say the we should just suck up unfair double priceing and just bend over and take it. No, but we can arm ourselves in many ways, learn the lanuage enough to get your numbers down and to tell them your not stupid. I found that so long as I could relate to them I'm not a moron and I could negotiate in Thai numbers, smile and make a game out of it I usualy got damm good prices in markets and with vendors. Though for hotels I still use my fiance' as the dule teir hotel rates just are too much for my paticence to handle.

Anyway, I usaly like this lil gem and perhaps neeranam you can correct my pronuciation. This works lovely when your at a stand and they tell you something stupid like 300baht for a dvd or something.

"Pben Heeeeya Arai? Pom mai dai quai!.............nong/pi (age dependant) jing talai?"

Loosly translated : "<deleted> is this??? I'm not stupid (Buffalo) Bro/Sis whats the real price?

I like the looks I get when I whip that out.

lol ... no ... that isn't even close to loosely translated ..... look up 'mai dai' (the rest of that sentence is just as bad)

Ok ok then help me out, I'm not at home now so I can't look it up easy, Mai dai is like don't have or what?

[KhunMarco]

Can not

Edited April 1, 2007 by KhunMarco

[November Rain]

Whilst farang are often charged more than Thais, there are many things that work in our favour. I am let off by traffic police all the time, for example, especially with my little one in the car. I can get discount that Thais wouldn't have the nerve to ask for, and better service in shops. Bank workers go out of their way to help me. I don't lose face very easily, which enables me to get away with a lot more than my Thai brothers and sisters.

Thai people are not all after money(anymore than foreigners) and the longer I live out of Bangkok/tourist areas, I realise this.

I hate to hear the farang saying, "they can't do this to me, do you know what would happen in United Farangland if they did this?". Quite simply, I have started a new life in a country, which will never accept me as one of them, even if I pass a degree in Thai, become a monk, or have Toxin's daughter as a "mia noi".

I have to chill out and adjust certain ideas and attitudes. I must remember that this is not my home country, and therefore has different ways of doing things. Christ, that is one of the reasons I love it here. I used to want them to keep doing the things I liked and stop doing the things I didn't like. What a shity attitude!

Realise what I can change and what I can't. Don't let the things that you can't get on top of you, they're not worth it. Once you have done this, weigh up the pros and cons of living in a new land and decide if it is for me or not. I have not been sentenced to live in Thailand, it is my choice.

Some things like double pricing are the Thai way an I sometimes think I should simply respect their decision - when I do this I usually see that they have a valid reason for doing something that thought 'racist' or unfair.

It's my fear of being take advantage of that I have to address. "can't have them Thais getting the better of ME, the almighty!

I know that if I want to become a Thai citizen I can, but when I weigh up all the pros and cons, I would rather keep my British passport.

If I were selling DVDs and a farang(who didn't speak Thai) came along buying for the woman and her kids I'd try and rip him of too.

If a foreigner who was much richer than I came to my country and couldn't speak a word of English, I'd charge him more and probably have a good laugh about it.

Some of us farang, whether we like it or not, have MUG written on our foreheads.

The longer I stay here the less visible it becomes to Thais, and the more obvious other people's becomes. To Thais, it very obvious.

N N

Great Points, The last part about the MUGS sums it up well. I always said "If you look like food you will be eaten!" Thats not to say the we should just suck up unfair double priceing and just bend over and take it. No, but we can arm ourselves in many ways, learn the lanuage enough to get your numbers down and to tell them your not stupid. I found that so long as I could relate to them I'm not a moron and I could negotiate in Thai numbers, smile and make a game out of it I usualy got damm good prices in markets and with vendors. Though for hotels I still use my fiance' as the dule teir hotel rates just are too much for my paticence to handle.

Anyway, I usaly like this lil gem and perhaps neeranam you can correct my pronuciation. This works lovely when your at a stand and they tell you something stupid like 300baht for a dvd or something.

"Pben Heeeeya Arai? Pom mai dai quai!.............nong/pi (age dependant) jing talai?"Loosly translated : "<deleted> is this??? I'm not stupid (Buffalo) Bro/Sis whats the real price?

I like the looks I get when I whip that out.

lol ... no ... that isn't even close to loosely translated ..... look up 'mai dai' (the rest of that sentence is just as bad)

Ok ok then help me out, I'm not at home now so I can't look it up easy, Mai dai is like don't have or what?

You use hiiya (heeya) in such a trivial complaint? Bet the Thais love that! Please, can a better Thai speaker than me confirm this, but I thought hiiya was a really, really bad insult. As far as I know it literally translates to "monitor lizard", but is the sort of thing that will get you a punch in the face if you say it to the wrong person. Again, my Thai is not very good at all, but I believe you want mai chai instead of mai dai

Edit - mai mee is "don't have"

Edited April 2, 2007 by November Rain