Non-OA retirement extension and insurance

[Wake Up]

I did the 800 K and I don’t mind the 90 day and Tm 30. I actually like Thailand a lot. But I have 2 million dollars of Cigna health insurance but no outpatient coverage as I can pay outpatient on my own. I have no Thai wife or child or own anything in Thailand. If CW will not accept my Cigna 2 million dollar coverage then reluctantly I will leave and wish Thailand the best. No hard feelings but I am happy I don’t have a thai family, farm and lot of investment in Thailand. And I will not be buying any truck or home for any Thailand woman or condo for myself. So I hope it works out for the Thai people but I am not buying pacific cross or any outpatient coverage that is good only in Thailand and I am taking my 100,000 baht a month expenses to another country.  No regrets no anger just some of us have choices and I feel for the men who have been here for a long time or have families here. Things change and IMO this is a big change. Happy to be a freebird but sad to be forced out of Thailand because I will not buy outpatient Thailand health insurance which is not needed. 

[travelerjim]

7 hours ago, Lim Yuan Hai said:

Hi, Can you share: 
what is a benefit of using the agent?
how much have to pay for the agent? 

Did they ask for medical exam?

I have to use the crutches because of my sciatic nerve injury of the left leg when I was 1 year old. I am 57 years. I am worry that they might increase the premium when they saw walking with 2 crutches. Can you please advise?
 
Thank you.

They will want physical exam. Also will rider / not cover preexisting conditions. 

[Wake Up]

16 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

There are several ongoing topics about a original OA visa entry requirement insurance when you apply for an extension of stay.

On is here where it has been discussed. https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1138196-o_a-extensions-75-based-on-retirement-only/

There are some office far from Bangkok that may be not require it but you would not be apply there without formally changing your address to where it is located.

Info about the companies offering the insurance is here. https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

Many people are opting to do away with their original OA visa entry by going out of the country to get a non-o visa entry and then applying for a new extension due to the insurance not be required for them.

When does your current extension end?

 

What the heck is going on in this country with immigration? Why would any single male buy anything with the army controlling the country?. Many expats with lots of money don’t need outpatient health insurance that only applies in Thailand. Don’t mind the 800 k, 90 day reports, and  TM 30. But buying outpatient health insurance only good in Thailand is a waste of money and having to convert to an O visa because they will not issue an extension of stay because you have an old O-A visa is lunacy. People with money and no commitments have choices. I feel for the men who have Thai families or own a Thai condo with no choices. Until we get a clear answer I am buying nothing and my rented condo from a Thai owner will be vacant when I exit Swampy and take my 800 k baht with me. No anger just a belief the army is ruining this country. 

[Tchooptip]

3 hours ago, DUNROAMIN said:

I don't believe the BS that is being spun by the government, as to "farangs" not paying their bills. Can you provide me with written proof that all Expats living here racked up these unpaid bills of billions of barht. I believe the main offenders are tourist arriving here with no medical insurance. Yes, there maybe some expat "farangs" that have slipped out without paying their bill, but not to the extent of what the government says. From my experience here, if you end up in hospital and need surgery(not life threatening) the hospitals requires the funds up front before they go ahead. My personal belief is that the government and hospitals have cooked up this scam to line the pockets of the Thai elite who own and run most of the Thai private hospitals and health insurance companies. Many expats have private health insurance with global HI companies, which are not excepted with this new rule. Myself and many of my friends pay their own way for hospital treatment and I suspect many do the same.  Keep in mind this country has always relied on money from external resources and has always struggled to generate its own income due to a lack of proper governing surrounded by corruption. 

"Many expats have private health insurance with global HI companies, which are not excepted with this new rule"

Right not accepted by immigration, but would be accepted by every hospitals, proof it is a pure scam!

[moontang]

1 hour ago, Wake Up said:

I did the 800 K and I don’t mind the 90 day and Tm 30. I actually like Thailand a lot. But I have 2 million dollars of Cigna health insurance but no outpatient coverage as I can pay outpatient on my own. I have no Thai wife or child or own anything in Thailand. If CW will not accept my Cigna 2 million dollar coverage then reluctantly I will leave and wish Thailand the best. No hard feelings but I am happy I don’t have a thai family, farm and lot of investment in Thailand. And I will not be buying any truck or home for any Thailand woman or condo for myself. So I hope it works out for the Thai people but I am not buying pacific cross or any outpatient coverage that is good only in Thailand and I am taking my 100,000 baht a month expenses to another country.  No regrets no anger just some of us have choices and I feel for the men who have been here for a long time or have families here. Things change and IMO this is a big change. Happy to be a freebird but sad to be forced out of Thailand because I will not buy outpatient Thailand health insurance which is not needed. 

Accurate response.. I was very close to buying the cigna global in September.. 

Obviously a better policy, but still not cheap, at all.. Glad I didn't, and would also be making other arrangements if I had. I just got a new year, but am seriously considering elsewhere.. Don't mind the 800k or the policy, but hate the instability.  And they do almost seem cynically unappreciative.. But that is such a small sliver of society, that is holding some cards. 

[Onrai]

10 hours ago, DUNROAMIN said:

I don't believe the BS that is being spun by the government, as to "farangs" not paying their bills. Can you provide me with written proof that all Expats living here racked up these unpaid bills of billions of barht.

I didn’t say “all” expats are not paying for their insurance. All I can go by is what I have read in the past on the Thai visa forum and news. It seems pretty cavalier to suggest that your conspiracy theory and the thai elite concocting a means to line their pockets is any more plausible. And do you have any proof to substantiate your theory? 

And can you explain why you think it is tourists arriving here with no medical insurance vs. expats living here that cause the problem. 

Logic would suggest that the longer you the higher your chances of needing medical care. 

Your comment about surgery and the hospital demanding payment up front is not my experience. When I went for a minor surgery I paid after the surgery. My girl friend who just had breast cancer surgery paid during a week long visit in the hospital. In the same ward as my girl friend with a 65,000 bill that we could over hear that they didn’t have the money to pay. 

 

[fishtank]

Of course it is a scam.

Biggest problem is people on holiday renting bikes and having accidents with no insurance.

Not long term residents.

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, fishtank said:

Of course it is a scam.

Biggest problem is people on holiday renting bikes and having accidents with no insurance.

Not long term residents.

Well they will have the compulsory 3rd party insurance, presuming they do actually have a bike licence. Most likely insufficient (or zero) personal medical insurance for any accident and injury. Interesting that insurance has been imposed on foreign tourists, but not those who rent out motorbikes. (On second thoughts, no, it is absolutely predictable.)

[tgeezer]

7 hours ago, Tchooptip said:

"Many expats have private health insurance with global HI companies, which are not excepted with this new rule"

Right not accepted by immigration, but would be accepted by every hospitals, proof it is a pure scam!

It does represent a good money stream and I suspect that is a motivation for the natural inability to think logically to dominate policy.  

[justin case]

just get a multi entry tourist visa in an embassy nearby ? no ?

[moontang]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Well they will have the compulsory 3rd party insurance, presuming they do actually have a bike licence. Most likely insufficient (or zero) personal medical insurance for any accident and injury. Interesting that insurance has been imposed on foreign tourists, but not those who rent out motorbikes. (On second thoughts, no, it is absolutely predictable.)

The motorbike crashes do seem to be a big part of the problem, and besides the idiotic outpatient requirement, it would make a lot of sense to require an insurance rider, for those riding bikes, just like you would for rock climbing, etc., or at least a discount for those that don't ride..I would rather be in an insurance pool with smokers than motorcycle riders.

[SamMunich]

I got an Non-Im "O" with multiple entries, but there is no "A" in sight. Is the O-A for foreigners, who need not leave the country every 90 days?
Another point: As slightly over 50% of the overall tax income of Thailand is due to VAT, foreigners do in fact pay as much taxes as 70% of all Thais.
And finally, Thais going to Europe need to prove to have a valid travel health insurance, but that is a lot cheaper, even though health expenses are way higher in Europe. In general, unless it is an emergency, no "customer" is admitted to hospital unless it is cleared, that he/she can pay the bill. A valid credit card is a magic key...

[SamMunich]

Just looked at an embassy site and it says, an O-A is for people, who do NOT leave the country every 90 days. So to avoid the insurance scam, it would make sense to go for a regular Non-Im O/M and leave the country every 89 days. Flying to Chiang Rai is easy, hop on a bus to Mae Sai and there cross over to Tachilek. Just get your stamps the same day and back to C.R. Have some Northern Food and the next day fly back and you're done. A nice excursion of 3 days. Or fly to Vietnam or to Singapore (2,5 hours).
Sounds better than an outrageous insurance bill.

[SamMunich]

About the hospitals sitting on unpaid bills:
I know a hospital around here, that left the group of hospitals, that accept Social Security Office members. Why? Because the SSO hasn't paid its bill for quite some time... And the SSO is NOT foreigners.
Next, the SSO is funded by contributions of 5% each from employee and employer (max. 750 B/month), plus 2.75% from the Government. Only... the government hasn't transferred it's dues, amouting to around 56 Billion Baht so far. That was reported in local newspapers!
So the hospitals would be glad, if the government paid up first and then maybe the hospitals get their outstanding bills paid.

[moontang]

41 minutes ago, SamMunich said:

About the hospitals sitting on unpaid bills:
I know a hospital around here, that left the group of hospitals, that accept Social Security Office members. Why? Because the SSO hasn't paid its bill for quite some time... And the SSO is NOT foreigners.
Next, the SSO is funded by contributions of 5% each from employee and employer (max. 750 B/month), plus 2.75% from the Government. Only... the government hasn't transferred it's dues, amouting to around 56 Billion Baht so far. That was reported in local newspapers!
So the hospitals would be glad, if the government paid up first and then maybe the hospitals get their outstanding bills paid.

I was at AEK Hospital inquiring about teeth cleaning a few years ago.  Was the largest in Iron, at the time.  Sign on the dooor;. BUPA customers must pay first...and BUPA was just about the gold standard in LOS.  Hopefully, some of the more reputable companies will try to get on the approved list.. Tokiomarine and IMG come to mind, CIGNA global, too.

[Peter Denis]

55 minutes ago, SamMunich said:

Just looked at an embassy site and it says, an O-A is for people, who do NOT leave the country every 90 days. So to avoid the insurance scam, it would make sense to go for a regular Non-Im O/M and leave the country every 89 days. Flying to Chiang Rai is easy, hop on a bus to Mae Sai and there cross over to Tachilek. Just get your stamps the same day and back to C.R. Have some Northern Food and the next day fly back and you're done. A nice excursion of 3 days. Or fly to Vietnam or to Singapore (2,5 hours).
Sounds better than an outrageous insurance bill.

An even simpler solution to avoid the bogus health-insurance scam, is to exit Thailand (to 'kill' your Non Imm OA - retirement Visa), and return VisaExempt.  Then apply in the first week of your return at your local IO for a 90 days Non Imm O - retirement Visa (application must be done minimum 15 - some IOs require 21 - days before expiry of your permission to stay from that VE-entry).  In the last month of that 90 days Non Imm O - retirement Visa, apply for a 1 year extension of stay at that same local IO.  The requirements and conditions for extension of stay of an OA - retirement Visa and an O - retirement Visa are exactly same, except that the latter does NOT require health-insurance.

In case someone is interested > I compiled a comprehensive roadmap to switch from a Non Imm OA - retirement Visa to a Non Imm O - retirement one, addressing all issues and options.

It provides more detail on how to embark on the the steps outlined above.

Just PM me, if you'd like to receive a copy.

 

[Momofarang]

On 12/21/2019 at 4:45 PM, Onrai said:

Since you have 5,805 posts I am assuming you have been in Thailand for some time. Since it has been in the news and posted on Thai visa forum it should come as no shock to hear that dead beat farang have cost the Thai medical system billions in losses from unpaid bills.

Well, since you have only 63 posts you probably assume you are a fast learner. But the very official figure of unpaid medicals bills is 500 000 000 Bahts. So if a deabeat Farang spends, hence brings into this excrement hole 500 000 Bahts a year, 1000 deadbeats will cover the loss for the Thai economy. And most of us spend a lot more then that.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Momofarang

[Lim Yuan Hai]

Many people said Pacific Cross took very long to process. One even complained he waited 6 weeks but not done yet. My extension of non-OA will be expired in about 4 weeks’ time, worst, now is festive season.

Can anyone please advise which insurance company is processing fast with reasonable premium?

Thank you

[Momofarang]

Glad I have to put the Insurance part of my plan on the back-burner. I'll go ahead with PC only once a have some guarantee that I won't become the meat in the sand witch between them and my existing CIGNA/WIPO plan. Better I get my next extension first, by whatever route and apply for insurance mid next year when the dust settles a bit.

[Onrai]

3 hours ago, Momofarang said:

Well, since you have only 63 posts you probably assume you are a fast learner. But the very official figure of unpaid medicals bills is 500 000 000 Bahts. So if a deabeat Farang spends, hence brings into this excrement hole 500 000 Bahts a year, 1000 deadbeats will cover the loss for the Thai economy. And most of us spend a lot more then that.

So that is your rationale for not paying medical bills? Even the lowest income expats easily make up for what the thai govt. lost in providing free care to foreigners? What we spent in the economy easily wipes out the Farang that don’t pay. That is probably the least logical exculpatory explanation I’ve ever heard? And if you perceive Thailand as an excrement hole, why in God’s name are you living here?There are 195 countries in the world to choose from. Certainly you could find one that better suits your needs. 

Excrement hole sounds just like a Trump right wing supporter would say. 

[Lim Yuan Hai]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 3:02 PM, moontang said:

you can go to the Pacific Cross office by Surasak bts, and take care of it...it will still take a week until you can pick up all the required stuff...my agent met me down at the pier.

Many people said Pacific Cross took very long time to process. How long did it take to get your policy?

[Momofarang]

59 minutes ago, Onrai said:

So that is your rationale for not paying medical bills? Even the lowest income expats easily make up for what the thai govt. lost in providing free care to foreigners? What we spent in the economy easily wipes out the Farang that don’t pay. That is probably the least logical exculpatory explanation I’ve ever heard? And if you perceive Thailand as an excrement hole, why in God’s name are you living here?There are 195 countries in the world to choose from. Certainly you could find one that better suits your needs. 

Excrement hole sounds just like a Trump right wing supporter would say. 

Yes the whole thing looks a bit like someone deciding to eradicate pornography by poking out the eyes of the entire male population.

[Huckenfell]

On 12/21/2019 at 3:21 PM, 4MyEgo said:

Might be dripping beef to them, but how many have changed to Non O visas, the current loophole for those on the O/A visa.

 

If the government is stupid enough to introduce mandatory health insurance to the retirement and marriage visas/extensions, Thailand will lose it's last farangs, the tourists aren't coming, and a lot of expats left when the TM 30 enforcement came into play.

 

Personally I think they are starting to understand that farangs are not like Thai's, i.e. they have choices, and if they don't like what they throw at them, farangs exit, as I will if they ever make it mandatory health insurance, money is welcome in a lot of countries, with less hassles, especially back in my homeland, albeit more expensive than Thailand.

 

In a nutshell, there is a clear difference between farangs and Thai's and I think the loss of face/money is starting to show in them backing off on the TM 30 by a lot of offices not enforcing it, but time will tell, as all it takes is a nutta to do something stupid and it costs the nation billions in revenue and the Thai business owners grief and hardship.

VietNam has become a very welcoming destination for many that i know. I have until  the end of October an will then probably take the same route along with my 2 pensions.

[Huckenfell]

On 12/21/2019 at 4:45 PM, Onrai said:

Since you have 5,805 posts I am assuming you have been in Thailand for some time. Since it has been in the news and posted on Thai visa forum it should come as no shock to hear that dead beat farang have cost the Thai medical system billions in losses from unpaid bills. Blame them. Blame all the foreigners who come over here, don’t have insurance, go to the hospital and skip out on the bill. What would you expect your country to do if you had a bunch of free loaders taking advantage of the system. Health care is reasonably priced here. The least we can do is pay our bills and not ruin for everyone else.

A lot more than 'meets the eye' is concerned here. I know quite a few farang, many on the O-A who like myself have never been within coo-ee of walking out of a hospital without paying and neither have we tried to, as it is just about impossible, so something with this arguement stinks !  We are not like Thai's so we question things and there is a big question to be answered here.

[Huckenfell]

On 12/21/2019 at 5:27 PM, natway09 said:

I still cannot understand why the grizzles about some decent sort of health care.

Having lived here for 30 years & seen some terrible accidents along with 1 guy committing suicide rather than spend their small nest egg on treatment (being left for his son) 

Why would you possibly NOT insure yourself ?

How old are you ?

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, Huckenfell said:

VietNam has become a very welcoming destination for many that i know. I have until  the end of October an will then probably take the same route along with my 2 pensions.

So I hear, but as my wife has said referring to many people, they shouldn't just put both feet out of the boat onto land before they think, because if the boat moves back into the water, how will they get back into the boat.

 

I have heard some stories, that it's much the same, same, then I have heard it's more relaxed, so depending on your situation, i.e. what age you are, what type of visa/extension you have, what hoops you have to jump through, just do your due diligence before you put both feet onto dry land from that boat.

 

Perhaps a short holiday (2 weeks), more research and then a firm decision, yes Thai immigration have thrown a few stones at us of late and there is uncertainty about future health insurance policies becoming mandatory, which will seal many coffins here for expats, so to speak, so why not just take that holiday to Vietnam and have plan B ready for when and if the Thai government wants to go down that path, personally I think this will all blow over, i.e. unless they are dumber than dumber ? 

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, Momofarang said:

Glad I have to put the Insurance part of my plan on the back-burner. I'll go ahead with PC only once a have some guarantee that I won't become the meat in the sand witch between them and my existing CIGNA/WIPO plan. Better I get my next extension first, by whatever route and apply for insurance mid next year when the dust settles a bit.

Just change visas as many other have done.

[4MyEgo]

14 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

I compiled a comprehensive roadmap to switch from a Non Imm OA - retirement Visa to a Non Imm O - retirement one, addressing all issues and options.

Well done, now there is someone who thinks outside the square and looks for loop holes in the system, let's just hope they don't spread this madness to other visa/extensions, or at least grandfather them so current expats are secure.

 

The thing is every expat I know and that's a fair few, pay their hospital bills, so as you stated and everyone knows, it's a scam, good guys in, bad guys out, good guys want to stay, pay...pay....pay so I can get my commission trailer, exactly like the insurance brokers do.

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, SamMunich said:

Is the O-A for foreigners, who need not leave the country every 90 days?

Yes, it allows for one year Permissions of Stay. 

[Lim Yuan Hai]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 9:43 PM, Sheryl said:

You have the option of agreeing to pay the first 300,000 baht yourself in exchange for a 50% reduction in premium.

 

You should do this only if you can actually come up with 300k any time needed.

 

There are also smaller deductible options starting I think around 40-50 baht. These also reduce premium but by a lesser percentage.

 

Choose the maximum deductible you can afford and keep that amount set aside in the bank at all times (separate from the finds used to qualify for your visa if using the 800k lump sum method).

 

At your age no physical exam required and can do it all online/by mail. You will have to declare your disability and that may lead to the policy containing an exemption for anything related to it but should not preclude getting insured per se.

 

Pacific Cross is taking several weeks these days to issue policies as they have a lot of applicants so keep that in mind.

 

It is preferrable to get the policy through a broker, they can help speed up processing if necessary and also help with any issues related to claims afterwards. And explain to you all the various options among different policies.  It does not cost any more than buying directly.

 

AA Brokers are good.  www.aainsure.net

 

My broker there is Jenny and she is a great help

 

[email protected]

I am doing physio therapy (outpatient) at SNMRI (I do not know whether it is a hospital or not) and Samitivej hospital.

Can I eligible to apply medical visa with letter from either of above mentioned hospital at the CM?
If so, what are the requirements and how long visa will I get, can my wife also get the same duration of stay visa as assistant because I have to walk with 2 crutches?

Our extension of non-OA will be expired in about 4 weeks’ time, I am worry that insurance policy will not get it on time as many people complained it take very long to process it?

Thank you and have a nice day.