How to stop a scammer?

[gettinglost]

 Someone, let's call them Bob, scammed about 30k USD from me in another county. I currently have a civil suit pending against him(isn't red tape grand?). Bob is now in Thailand and recruiting both staff and victims for his next scam. I believe unless I take action he will scam others, flee Thailand, and then repeat in the next country.  I am looking for advice on what I can do to stop him.

Some things I know. Bob's scam will take place in a few weeks during the Chinese new year. He will be holding a business investment meeting/scam near CM(I know which resort and it seems to be owned by a thai military officer). Bob is renting the resort out for a "corporate retreat". The meeting will be held in English with Chinese translators flying in to work. I am not sure if he is only targeting Chinese people, or perhaps Thai and other Farang as well. 

I know I could just hope for Bob to ruin himself, but in the time it will take for the law, or Karma, to catch up, he will hurt many others. Thanks for your honest advice. I am hoping to get more "clear steps" I can take, and less "vigilantly justice" ideas.  

[henry2109]

For getting a better understanding/background, I should know the following:

 

Is there "only" a civil case against him in another country, or are there also criminal cases? Was he ever convicted for scamming other people or for other things in another country?

 

Does he arise under a company name here or his own name? What is the history of the company? Does he have a work permit?

 

Does he - for the planned business meeting - give inaccurate or false information to participants or workforce?

[donnacha]

Personally, I would just focus on my own civil case and not doing anything that could possibly complicate that.

 

If you are determined, however, I would suggest the following.

If you are in Thailand, try to arrange an in-person meeting with the resort owner or manager. Bring any documents you have regarding your pending civil suit.

Be clear that you are only there as a courtesy to them. Explain that this guy is a scammer, that he leaves a trail of lawsuits in his wake, that it may mean liability for them. Do not over-explain. Keep it as simple as possible. Never presume, in Thailand, that people understand because they are nodding and appear to be listening.

If you can convey that "bad man make problem for you", 90% of Thai businesses will do all they can to avoid that.

If they seem inclined to brush it off, and say that they are merely providing the space, say "Okay" and stay friendly. As you go, however, make it clear that, after the scam, you will let all the victims know that the venue owner was warned, meaning that it will be their problem too.

If you are not in Thailand, you could send a simple email with the documents attached, but bear in mind that this would be documentary evidence of slander, a serious offense in Thailand regardless of the justification.

 

[teacherofwoe]

You know he is currently recruiting for the scam, you know where the scam will take place, you know when the scam will take place, and you know who the scam will take place with. Is there anything else you would like to tell us?

[TheAppletons]

Sounds like "Bob" is planning to work without a work permit.  Someone not too long ago was arrested for hosting just such a seminar without a work permit.  The host of the seminar plus 10 others were arrested.  Happy hunting.

 

 

[Just Weird]

47 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Personally, I would just focus on my own civil case and not doing anything that could possibly complicate that.

 

If you are determined, however, I would suggest the following.

If you are in Thailand, try to arrange an in-person meeting with the resort owner or manager. Bring any documents you have regarding your pending civil suit.

Be clear that you are only there as a courtesy to them. Explain that this guy is a scammer, that he leaves a trail of lawsuits in his wake, that it may mean liability for them. Do not over-explain. Keep it as simple as possible. Never presume, in Thailand, that people understand because they are nodding and appear to be listening.

If you can convey that "bad man make problem for you", 90% of Thai businesses will do all they can to avoid that.

If they seem inclined to brush it off, and say that they are merely providing the space, say "Okay" and stay friendly. As you go, however, make it clear that, after the scam, you will let all the victims know that the venue owner was warned, meaning that it will be their problem too.

If you are not in Thailand, you could send a simple email with the documents attached, but bear in mind that this would be documentary evidence of slander, a serious offense in Thailand regardless of the justification.

 

 

You're not a lawyer, are you?

 

"... you could send a simple email with the documents attached, but bear in mind that this would be documentary evidence of slander, a serious offense in Thailand regardless of the justification".

That would not be "slander", it would be libel.

 

"...As you go, however, make it clear that, after the scam, you will let all the victims know that the venue owner was warned, meaning that it will be their problem too".

Nonsense.  Unless the owner of the rented space was party to the fraud who, in this case, clearly wouldn't be.

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Just Weird

[donnacha]

8 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Edited 8 hours ago by Just Weird

Never has a username been more apt. 

Given that the difference between slander and libel is that one is spoken and the other written, I'm going to give myself a pass on that one. Both are defamation, which is a criminal offense in Thailand.

If a venue owner if credibly informed, before the event, that a scam is going to take place in his venue, yes, there is some level of legal culpability. You may not regard such culpability to be sufficiently provable but, as ever, your opinion is irrelevant. The question is whether the owner is going to want to run any risk at all for some foreigner he has probably never actually met.

The important thing is that I was giving the OP suggestions to achieve his aim of disrupting this scammer, if that is what he really wants to do. You, on the the other hand, are engaging in one of your typically acidic and entirely unhelpful attacks on another member. I have no idea why you behave in this way.

Once again, on behalf of everyone here, I urge you to find something more positive to do with your life.
 

[Traubert]

22 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Never has a username been more apt. 

Given that the difference between slander and libel is that one is spoken and the other written, I'm going to give myself a pass on that one. Both are defamation, which is a criminal offense in Thailand.

If a venue owner if credibly informed, before the event, that a scam is going to take place in his venue, yes, there is some level of legal culpability. You may not regard such culpability to be sufficiently provable but, as ever, your opinion is irrelevant. The question is whether the owner is going to want to run any risk at all for some foreigner he has probably never actually met.

The important thing is that I was giving the OP suggestions to achieve his aim of disrupting this scammer, if that is what he really wants to do. You, on the the other hand, are engaging in one of your typically acidic and entirely unhelpful attacks on another member. I have no idea why you behave in this way.

Once again, on behalf of everyone here, I urge you to find something more positive to do with your life.
 

Yeah, he's right though.

 

You are clearly not familiar with Thai law.

[Elmer Fudd]

Trying to intervene has the potential to cause even more serious problems for yourself. Let it go.

[AlexRich]

You could issue a fatwa against Bob, imploring the denizens of Chiang Mai to do the world a favour.

 

Is Bob an independent advisor or is he attached to a company?

[Just Weird]

10 hours ago, donnacha said:

Never has a username been more apt. 

Given that the difference between slander and libel is that one is spoken and the other written, I'm going to give myself a pass on that one. Both are defamation, which is a criminal offense in Thailand.

If a venue owner if credibly informed, before the event, that a scam is going to take place in his venue, yes, there is some level of legal culpability. You may not regard such culpability to be sufficiently provable but, as ever, your opinion is irrelevant. The question is whether the owner is going to want to run any risk at all for some foreigner he has probably never actually met.

The important thing is that I was giving the OP suggestions to achieve his aim of disrupting this scammer, if that is what he really wants to do. You, on the the other hand, are engaging in one of your typically acidic and entirely unhelpful attacks on another member. I have no idea why you behave in this way.

Once again, on behalf of everyone here, I urge you to find something more positive to do with your life.

 

"If a venue owner if credibly informed, before the event, that a scam is going to take place in his venue, yes, there is some level of legal culpability"

No, there isn't.  Even if there was some responsibility on the part of the person who is renting out space, nothing more, unless you knew exactly what the content of the seminar was going to be, which you don't, "the scam" would only be your defamatory opinion.

 

"You may not regard such culpability to be sufficiently provable but, as ever, your opinion is irrelevant".

The relevance of my opinion and your opinion are both exactly the same!   

 

"Once again, on behalf of everyone here, I urge you to find something more positive to do with your life".

Sorry to disappoint you but you do not represent anyone here apart from yourself so urging me to, pretentiously, do anything "on behalf of everyone here" is ridiculous.

[Just Weird]

21 hours ago, gettinglost said:

Someone, let's call them Bob, scammed about 30k USD from me in another county.

What was the "scam" that you allege?  Which county [sic] was it in?

[NancyL]

Isn't up to the authorities where the first scam occurred to notify the authorities in Thailand that this seminar is about to occur in their country? At this least the Thais would be interested in Bob and his crew working without a permit.  But the warning would carry much more weight if it came from law-enforcement officials from another country where Bob had operated.

 

I think the OP should go back to the law enforcement officials in the country where his scamming occurred and ask them to tip off law enforcement in Thailand.

[donnacha]

16 hours ago, Traubert said:

You are clearly not familiar with Thai law.

No, I am responding to the OP's request: his goal is to disrupt the event, not to actually take the venue owner to court. Suggesting that an event could lead to complications for the venue owner will likely be enough to get the booking canceled. Just Weird knows that but is trolling.

If you think that lawyers, in conversation, never mix up words that are practically synonyms, such as libel and slander, you have clearly never worked with lawyers. We are not robots.

So far, the suggestion which will most effectively achieve the OP's goal is @NancyL's international law enforcement route, but it would need to be very clear to the authorities in that other country that a crime had actually occurred.

It might also be worth trying to spook the venue owner, but I would generally agree with @Elmer Fudd and others that he would be better off not risking further problems for himself or complications for his own case.

I definitely understand, though, that urge to hit back. When your own case is over, consider putting together all the info you have on this guy and any associates, ideally along with photos of them, and publish it anonymously online. That will at least warn others and somewhat hamper his ability to operate.

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by donnacha

[gettinglost]

Thanks for all of the advice. I will be taking @NancyL advice. It's a great idea and might stop Bob.