3,000 Bangkok Buildings Confirmed Unsafe

[george]

3,000 Bangkok buildings may be unsafe

Thai officials issue warning as critics blame bureaucracy and slow legal system for last week's department store collapse

BANGKOK - Acknowledging it was sheer luck that more people were not injured or killed when part of the New World department store building in Bangkok collapsed last Wednesday, Thai officials have warned that more than 3,000 buildings in the capital could be unsafe.

At least 700 buildings with department stores, theatres, shophouses and residential units were definitely unsafe, said Deputy Interior Minister Pramual Rujanaseri.

A ministry official said demolition plans for these buildings would be accelerated and the work would be completed in four years.

The president of the Engineering Institute of Thailand, Mr Tortrakul Yomnak, warned that 'the New World incident would certainly be repeated'.

Part of the building collapsed as workers were demolishing seven floors which were illegally constructed. At least 10 people were injured, including two seriously.

Mr Tortrakul pinned the blame on an outdated Building Control Act, saying a new law proposed in 2000 would have allowed the authorities to speedily demolish unsafe and illegal buildings.

That law had not been implemented because of bureaucratic delays, he said.

The case of the New World building was compounded by unsafe work that was carried out, experts said.

Two of last Wednesday's victims are still in critical condition in a Bangkok hospital.

A member of Thailand's Council of Engineers said at the weekend that the engineer in charge of the long-delayed New World demolition operation was not listed as a member with the council.

Mr Nawin Noengpul, who used the membership number of another registered member, was jailed some years ago for forging a professional engineer's licence, the Engineering Institute of Thailand said.

Ms Sadanan Chanthong, a 28-year-beautician who worked at the Gay Cuts salon on the ground floor of the New World building, is now hooked to a respirator in Bangkok's Vachira hospital, her abdomen crushed by concrete in the collapse.

Ms Boonrerm Thongmai, 29, lies in another room, her arms and legs broken and her skull fractured.

Ms Sadanan's family may file civil and criminal suits against the owners of the building.

Despite a court order 10 years ago, the owners delayed demolishing the seven illegally constructed floors in the 11-storey building.

The store's management had delayed the demolition by wrangling in court with the city authorities over who would do the job.

The delay enabled the management to collect rents from those occupying the illegal floor space.

Now it is likely that the owners will be the first target of a crackdown to set an example for other building owners embroiled in similar legal proceedings.

Many politicians have visited the two seriously injured victims and two committees have been set up to probe the incident.

Bangkok Governor Samak Sundaravej said legal loopholes had made the city authorities powerless to speed up the pace of demolition.

A lawyer for the building's owners, Kaew Fah Shopping Arcade, told reporters that his clients would pay the medical bills of the injured and would surrender themselves to the police.

'Someone should go to jail for this,' Bangkok Post columnist Wasant Techawongtham wrote in a commentary.

--The Straits Times 2004-06-07

[john b good]

Acknowledging it was sheer luck that more people were not injured or killed when part of the New World department store building in Bangkok collapsed last Wednesday, Thai officials have warned that more than 3,000 buildings in the capital could be unsafe.

At least 700 buildings with department stores, theatres, shophouses and residential units were definitely unsafe, said Deputy Interior Minister Pramual Rujanaseri.

A ministry official said demolition plans for these buildings would be accelerated and the work would be completed in four years.

The president of the Engineering Institute of Thailand, Mr Tortrakul Yomnak, warned that 'the New World incident would certainly be repeated'.

A ministry official said demolition plans for these buildings would be accelerated and the work would be completed in four years.

What a lot of absolute horsesh*t.

It is over 10 years since the Kader fire and about the same time has elapsed since the hotel in Korat collapsed.

Many more events have occurred (the fire in Jomptien, and the factory explosion in Sanpatong. The list is endless)

Nothing has been done in more than 10 years and little will be done in the next ten.

And even if it were to be done within the 4 years timeframe, how many will die and be crippled in the meantime.

Thailand is one big

[maerim]

At least 700 buildings with department stores, theatres, shophouses and residential units were definitely unsafe, said Deputy Interior Minister Pramual Rujanaseri.

I don't suppose there is a list available is there?

I for one would'nt mind paying for one.

[george]

Update:

Thousands of Bangkok buildings unsafe

BANGKOK: Authorities in Thailand's teeming capital have listed 3,000 high-rise buildings as gravely unsafe saying many are under particular threat from fire, according to a press report.

The Bangkok buildings threatening public safety have not been named for fear of inciting a wave of law suits against the city, the president of the Engineering Institute of Thailand (EIT) reportedly said.

"The state simply says there are 3,000 unsafe buildings in Bangkok and stops at that," EIT's Totrakul Yomnak told the Bangkok Post.

"They fear being hit with defamation suits, so they say nothing."

Concern over Bangkok's high-rises surged with the collapse earlier this month of part of a city department store which killed one person and injured six others.

The building's owners had been ordered years ago to tear down its top floors as they were built illegally, and the collapse sparked concern that several city skyscrapers had violated the law or skirted construction regulations.

EIT's chairman Pichaya Chatranuwat was cited as slamming the lack of standardized fire prevention systems in the structures and said it was vital to raise the safety of buildings in the city, which is home to some 10 million people.

Thai hotels have been known to lock fire exits, while department stores block them with merchandise, he said.

"We should place our focus on the fire problem," Pichaya said in the English-language daily.

"Previous records have shown that most tragic incidents in high-rise buildings involved this type of accident."

He pointed to a deadly 1997 fire in the Royal Jomtien Hotel in the beach resort of Pattaya south of Bangkok, which killed 91 people.

- AFP 2004-06-20

[otherstuff1957]

The Bangkok buildings threatening public safety have not been named for fear of inciting a wave of law suits against the city, the president of the Engineering Institute of Thailand (EIT) reportedly said.

"The state simply says there are 3,000 unsafe buildings in Bangkok and stops at that," EIT's Totrakul Yomnak told the Bangkok Post.

"They fear being hit with defamation suits, so they say nothing."

I bet you could find out what SOME of those buildings are: Just check to see if Shincorp has put any of its facilities up for sale recently

[31x]

If I learned anything about the Thai government in my years living in the Kingdom, is that officials have to come out every now and then to make these "public declarations" of some nature to appear as if they are doing their job. It is nothing more than hot air. It is not a call to change, or the first step in implementing a plan of action...no...just a bunch of words.

Good old Mr. Toxic himself is the biggest "declarer" of them all. "There is no more bird flu" and so, because he says it, it must be true! Think about the "no more drugs in the entire country" in what was it, three or six months. Then the very next year, he announces another anti-drug campiagn. But wait, you eliminated drugs 100% the previous year, what happened? People forget I guess.

I gave up reading the Thai papers and stuck with the Tribune, not that it was all fact, but better than the charade the Thai officials put on all the time. Plus, the Post and Nation aren't allowed to print anything of real truth against the Thai government because of the censorship.

If you want a good laugh, the Post and Nation are your papers to read. I am sure you guys can come up with many of these declarations as well. But, when it comes to foreigners living there, that seems like the only thing Toxic is moving on.

[DaveYo]

This is another project for the PM to implement. Just like he did on his drug war, do the same to these buildings. Condemn these buildings, and start the demolition derby.

The list should be made available to all especially to the public. So what is the problem some defamation lawsuit. I don't think there will be any lawsuits if this list happens to be legit and the proof is there that these buildings are unsafe. Also my bet would be some of these buildings bring in a huge cash cow, and revealing such will cripple the tourist industry no doubt, cause many of these tourists will not want to be in these buildings or go to these malls that they have included in such list.

This is not a laughing matter. 3,000 buildings is a heck of a lot of buildings, and whoa the concrete that is involved in such is mind boggling. If this is really true, this comprises almost all of Bangkok that is taller than 6 floors.

What is the final result????????? A literal Ghost town. Everybody will vamoosa and head out to the outskirts and watch the dust rise up to the high sky. By then it will be way too late to really save face. Ahhhhh, now the lawsuits will come in and it will break the Thai piggy bank for sure.

I can name a few right now. World Trade Center, Don Muang International Airport, V.P Tower and these three do not have a sprinkler system in place. If any of you don't believe me go look yourselves.

Daveyo

[meemiathai]

Wow! Is it that serious? They don't even have A SPRINKLER SYSTEM in place!!!

[DaveYo]

Well if you don't think it is serious Mthai, park yourself in one of the 3,000 buildings not revealed. If you survive it, please let me know the exclusive details of your exciting experience. Me thinks you will be so hot you will have plenty of water to spare for the fire department.

Daveyo

[Nam Kao]

THIS IS INSANE !!!

[Felt 35]

Just plain logic in a society where the most used word is "mai pen rai"

[john b good]

From Bangkok Post 04 June 2004

Bangkok governor Samak Sundaravej yesterday rejected charges that the city administration had been negligent .

The governor said he had expected there would be a disaster from the demolition work at New World but was unable to take any action to prevent it.

He said the owner of New World , Kaew Fah Shopping Arcade, had exploited legal loopholes that enabled it to delay demolition of the illegal floors for more than 10 years.

As a result of Samak's negligence a young lady died in the New World collapse.

By his own stated admission he acknowledged that he expected a disaster yet did nothing about it.

IMHO opinion he should be charged with culpable manslaughter..............

No one is ever held responsible for anything that happens in Thailand.

Has anyone ever been convicted over the deaths of 388 people who perished in or as a result of the Kader dolls factory fire in 1994, or the hotel collapse in Korat in which 137 died, or the Hotel fire in Jomtien where close to 100 people died, or the Lamyai processing factory explosion in 1999 in Sanpatong (around 40 deaths) or the New Phetchburi Road gas explosion.

To my knowledge none have.

It's just another case of TIT AND trying to save someone's face.

People who post on the forum (the majority anyway) are always saying how one has to be aware of and accept the face saving culture that exists here in Thailand.

Maybe Thailand would get the message if everyone here (on the forum) told all their friends and relatives back home just what a dangerous place Thailand actually is so that all of these people (the tourists) gave Thailand one big miss and instead were to visit safe and secure destinations.

Only if and when the "head waiter" and his cronies can see the downturn in visitor arrivals as a result of their inadequacies might something be done to having this face saving culture scrapped and put where it belongs "in the archives of history" (in the rubbish bin)

Or folks do nothing and as a result of your very own "mai pen rai" attitude and acceptance, you or one of your loved ones might be icluded in the next statistics to be published.

"saving face" what a load of dogs <deleted>.

LOS "LAND OF SHAME" (and sham)

[castelleone]

If all this is true there will be no serious way out of that mess than control and redevelope all the appropriate constructions.

Anyway this seems to be a perpetual topic that will occupy the authorities and folks still for a long time.

[Jing Joe]

I stayed in a 12 storey Bkk condo recently for 10 nights and a long vertical crack in the edge of an outside wall looked like in could peel off one day. mmmm

[tess79]

Sawasdee ja ...took kon ... mai pen rai rok na !! building mai dee that's ok...no earthquake anyway !! ... lo len na ja!!

[tess79]

From Bangkok Post 04 June 2004

Bangkok governor Samak Sundaravej yesterday rejected charges that the city administration had been negligent .

The governor said he had expected there would be a disaster from the demolition work at New World but was unable to take any action to prevent it.

He said the owner of New World , Kaew Fah Shopping Arcade, had exploited legal loopholes that enabled it to delay demolition of the illegal floors for more than 10 years.

As a result of Samak's negligence a young lady died in the New World collapse.

By his own stated admission he acknowledged that he expected a disaster yet did nothing about it.

IMHO opinion he should be charged with culpable manslaughter..............

No one is ever held responsible for anything that happens in Thailand.

Has anyone ever been convicted over the deaths of 388 people who perished in or as a result of the Kader dolls factory fire in 1994, or the hotel collapse in Korat in which 137 died, or the Hotel fire in Jomtien where close to 100 people died, or the Lamyai processing factory explosion in 1999 in Sanpatong (around 40 deaths) or the New Phetchburi Road gas explosion.

To my knowledge none have.

It's just another case of TIT AND trying to save someone's face.

People who post on the forum (the majority anyway) are always saying how one has to be aware of and accept the face saving culture that exists here in Thailand.

Maybe Thailand would get the message if everyone here (on the forum) told all their friends and relatives back home just what a dangerous place Thailand actually is so that all of these people (the tourists) gave Thailand one big miss and instead were to visit safe and secure destinations.

Only if and when the "head waiter" and his cronies can see the downturn in visitor arrivals as a result of their inadequacies might something be done to having this face saving culture scrapped and put where it belongs "in the archives of history" (in the rubbish bin)

Or folks do nothing and as a result of your very own "mai pen rai" attitude and acceptance, you or one of your loved ones might be icluded in the next statistics to be published.

"saving face" what a load of dogs <deleted>.

LOS "LAND OF SHAME" (and sham)

Khun John ja ... don't angry na ja ...don't worry be happy na ja mai tong kit mak rok ..ok? ... some things happen that's out of your control na ja , so if it happens to you . I'll cry with you ok? ...( I hope it won't)

[raro]

If the officials do not name the buildings, why don't we list them ourself?

So far we have:

World Trade Center

Don Muang Airport

V.P. Tower

I may add:

The shopping center between MBK and Siam Square (not sure about its name). even under "normal" conditions you loose orientation. The place is packed with people (mostly students) and the alleys arew narrow at best. Don't want to be there in case of fire.

NASA Vega hotel in Ramkamhaeng Road. Fire escapes are locked at the tenth floor. I used to stay in that place frequently until I found out about it. Raised the issue to the management, they said no problem the bell boy will come up with the keys to open the doors. Asking the hotel manager how he can make it that fast, he answered "with the lift".

[stumonster]

is there any highrise in BKK that does not have glaring cracks in the concrete filled up with who knows what.( maybe chewing gum...might be the strongest part of the building?)

[scratt]

Anyone know anything about the Tall Condos in Muang Thong Thani?

Thinking about buying one.....

Cheers,

scratt

[NedKelly]

A mate of mine lives high up in a condo block. He got home one day to find his door open. After checking his condo found nothing missing and then he realised that the whole door jam had moved during the day so that the door just swung open !!!!! Doe sthis sound like a safe building....not on your life !! Who needs an earthquake ?

[DaveYo]

Well, I was up on the highest building in BKK just recently eating on the top floor mind you and yes I too saw a crack big enough for you to stick your finger inside towards the bottom of the wall and the floor.

Trust me folks if that biggie building ever falls, many will die in that area, since it is heavily populated.

I don't even want to think of the casualties that might be involved. It will most certainly be a repeat of the World Trade Center Towers .

Daveyo

[ka12345]

I can name a few right now. World Trade Center, Don Muang International Airport, V.P Tower and these three do not have a sprinkler system in place. If any of you don't believe me go look yourselves.

Not like MBK then. They have sprinklers but almost every sprinkler head in the cramped together mobile phone section have been replaced with plugs...

[capitalinvestment]

Well, I was up on the highest building in BKK just recently eating on the top floor mind you and yes I too saw a crack big enough for you to stick your finger inside towards the bottom of the wall and the floor.

Trust me folks if that biggie building ever falls, many will die in that area, since it is heavily populated.

I don't even want to think of the casualties that might be involved. It will most certainly be a repeat of the World Trade Center Towers .

Daveyo

Name and shame that's how I see it.

You meant the Bayioke Sky Hotel, correct?

I for one would warn every parent not to send their children to the "Siam Colakan Music School" on the corner of Sukhumvit 67. the top floor has a fire exit but... locked. I studied there myself so I know for a fact that the "rusty lock" has never been opened because I have checked. Every floor has around 30 wooden pianos and each floor is divided into around thirty wooden cubicles/classrooms.

Yes, there are fire extinguishers, 3 in total but there is no way they will be of any help since all windows have steel bars.

A catatrophe waiting to happen IMO.

[Padkapow Guy]

Back in 96 I stayed at the Monarch lee on silom. It had a huge crack in the wall of the lobby. I never gave it to much thought back then but it makes me wonder now.

I have not been there since so I don't know if it is fixed , but I doubt it. TIT

[DaveYo]

Yes that is the place my man. And guess what even cockroaches feast looking down on you

Isn't there a place you won't find a roach??? Has to be some place on land that they don't exist. I wouldn't be surprised to see one having an igloo up by the North or South Poles.

Daveyo

[brianbrain]

If it's of any interest, the two-storey building in which I live "wobbles" when a truck drives past. The wobble is sufficiently strong to make make my 17" monitor rock on the desk. No signs of building cracks - I assume it's solid but floating on a bed of unstable land. At least that's what I tell myself

[NedKelly]

It will be an interesting law suit if a building collapses or is gutted by fire and loads of people die. The authorities say they have a 'tops secret' list of unsafe buildings......so they already know !! i am no lawyer but I would think that this is admitting negligence so the Bangkok Administration and even the Government of Thailand should re-think it's position on this hopefully. Btest to save a life and even your own face than to be an ignorant fool and allow this situation to go on.