Too Young To Retire!

[jmkiser]

It seems that the more I get involved with attempting to semi-retire and re-locate to Thailand the more stumbling blocks I run into. I am a forty-five year old American man that has been traveling back and fourth to Thailand for the last five years. This last vacation I took in January and February of 2004 was a decision point in my life. I decided to semi-retire and move to Thailand and basically become a Professional Beach Bum. I am currently in the process of liquidating all of my assets in America and was planning on re-locating to Phuket (Patong Beach area) around October 2004.

I was planning on accepting a job in Phuket City (just to keep my mind occupied as not to get into trouble from boredom), and staying for three years on a non-immigrant stay and then apply for permanent residency in Thailand. Since then my tentative employer has notified me that there is a small problem with my employment because he lacks the Thai staff to accommodate another Foreigner visa for me!

As far as visa’s go I have the monetary requirement for retirement, however I’m five years from the minimum age, and I’m not going to stay here in Alaska for five more years I can assure you of that, so a retirement visa is out of the question.

After reading some posts in this forum I have become a little disturbed. My current idea was to go ahead with my re-location plans and then from the Patong Beach area make visa runs to Ranong every thirty days. I wouldn’t have a problem doing that, however it would be a little bothersome every month. Now I’m reading in this forum (I realize that it’s probable not Thai Government/Law approved or over looked), that myself and many others may not be able to exit and re-enter Thailand every thirty days for several months or years for that matter. Basically this now has me very concerned.

Since I am extremely close to liquating my assets, selling my residential real property, and terminating my job position in the communications industry I would like very much to hear from someone that has first hand knowledge of what I am planning to do. Obviously if I go through with my current plans and then not be allowed into Thailand for more than three months at a time without a six month stay elsewhere, this would financially devastate me. I have written the Phuket Gazette several times as well as the Immigration Department in Phuket about my concerns, even the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles. Apparently all combined they can’t seem to get a reply email off to me.

Best regards,

John Kiser

Anchorage, Alaska

United States of America

[ProThaiExpat]

Dear John. (This is NOT a "dear john" letter)

Not to WORRY! There will be many very knowledgeable posters following this post with first hand experience regarding how to reach your objective.

One approach, which I have read "gurus" recommend is to obtain a non-immigrant O visa based on study of Thai culture. Since you are going to make this your permanent home, learning the language will certainly be helpful, so your being truthful when applying for this form of visa, which carries a 1 year extention feature, I think.

Lopburi3 or Dr. Pat please confirm or deny!

[PvtDick]

John,

If it's not too personal a question, I was wondering on what basis you have decided you have enough money to last you the rest of your life in Phuket. How much are you figuring you'll have at your disposal for living expenses on a monthly basis.

PvtDick

[simcity]

Jmkiser

I am little bit in the same situation as you are, I have been in Thailand with a 3 by 3 months visa for the last 6 years , waiting to reach 50 .

Until now I do not have problem to get a visa in Australia .

I came to see them with a full bundle of papers showing my financial, I am single / dual citizen ( French / Australia ) .

I believe in your situation a 3 million bahts transfer will solve your problem, perhaps I will do if I need to, but the 3*3 visa in find for me for the time been .

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It seems that the more I get involved with attempting to semi-retire and re-locate to Thailand the more stumbling blocks I run into. I am a forty-five year old American man that has been traveling back and fourth to Thailand for the last five years. This last vacation I took in January and February of 2004 was a decision point in my life. I decided to semi-retire and move to Thailand and basically become a Professional Beach Bum. I am currently in the process of liquidating all of my assets in America and was planning on re-locating to Phuket (Patong Beach area) around October 2004.

I was planning on accepting a job in Phuket City (just to keep my mind occupied as not to get into trouble from boredom), and staying for three years on a non-immigrant stay and then apply for permanent residency in Thailand. Since then my tentative employer has notified me that there is a small problem with my employment because he lacks the Thai staff to accommodate another Foreigner visa for me!

As far as visa’s go I have the monetary requirement for retirement, however I’m five years from the minimum age, and I’m not going to stay here in Alaska for five more years I can assure you of that, so a retirement visa is out of the question.

After reading some posts in this forum I have become a little disturbed. My current idea was to go ahead with my re-location plans and then from the Patong Beach area make visa runs to Ranong every thirty days. I wouldn’t have a problem doing that, however it would be a little bothersome every month. Now I’m reading in this forum (I realize that it’s probable not Thai Government/Law approved or over looked), that myself and many others may not be able to exit and re-enter Thailand every thirty days for several months or years for that matter. Basically this now has me very concerned.

Since I am extremely close to liquating my assets, selling my residential real property, and terminating my job position in the communications industry I would like very much to hear from someone that has first hand knowledge of what I am planning to do. Obviously if I go through with my current plans and then not be allowed into Thailand for more than three months at a time without a six month stay elsewhere, this would financially devastate me. I have written the Phuket Gazette several times as well as the Immigration Department in Phuket about my concerns, even the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles. Apparently all combined they can’t seem to get a reply email off to me.

Best regards,

John Kiser

Anchorage, Alaska

United States of America

Spend 3 million baht on a condo'. That'll give you eligibility for a visa issued in the US and extendable a year at a time in Thailand while you retain the condo'.

[Wanttocalldotcom]

I tried to retier when i was 28 with a paper from my goverment. It did not work in Thailand but it did work in my country. I had to go out every 90 days. But i could not make a new one in Thailand beucase the Immigration never heard of such a visa and the embassy said the Thai Immigration was stupid. But now i got a wife so the problem is over for now.

[Baht Simpson]

Spend 3 million baht on a condo'. That'll give you eligibility for a visa issued in the US and extendable a year at a time in Thailand while you retain the condo'.

Could you expand on that Dr. Patpong? Does continued ownership of a BHT 3M property allow you an automatic annual extension on a visa? Which visa is this? I suppose that is in tandem with the BHT 800M or equivalent requirement.

Many thanks

[rainman]

Too bad i can't (legally) retire at 21 in Thailand yet.

[stroll]

Does continued ownership of a BHT 3M property allow you an automatic annual extension on a visa? Which visa is this? I suppose that is in tandem with the BHT 800M or equivalent requirement.

Several people on this forum have enquired at different embassies and immi. offices, and the answers -you've guessed it!- don't match. Do a search on the subject, the options on the top and the bottom of the page after you log in.

And rainman, are you (not legally) retiring in Thailand? I am getting really envious now, he's got the looks, right age, -AND THE MONEY!!?

[rainman]

And rainman, are you (not legally) retiring in Thailand? I am getting really envious now, he's got the looks, right age, -AND THE MONEY!!?

Well, i don't think i'll ever retire. I'm just not the kind that can be without working. And i have been working my butt off for the past 3 years, seven days a week, 18 hours a day. But it would be nice getting the retirement visa at 21, much easier ...sadly, legally, i can't.

[ajarnski]

I'll be 39 when I retire in Thailand. No VIsa needed (cause I'm Thai). I'm so glad my Mom registered me in the "Tah Bein Baan" before we immigrated to the states.

I recommend you enroll in a Uni so you can get a 1 year VISA. Cost at most major Uni is about 40,000 baht per semester. You don't really need to show up for class to unless u really want a Thai degree. 55555555

Ajarnski...

[mbkudu]

Spend 3 million baht on a condo'. That'll give you eligibility for a visa issued in the US and extendable a year at a time in Thailand while you retain the condo'.

Could you expand on that Dr. Patpong? Does continued ownership of a BHT 3M property allow you an automatic annual extension on a visa? Which visa is this? I suppose that is in tandem with the BHT 800M or equivalent requirement.

Many thanks

I have looked into this, and technically it is not a visa. However, if you wired 3 million Baht into Thailand for a condo or government issued bonds, you could get a one year extension on an existing visa of some sort. This is an uninterupted stay of one year. It is NOT a VISA; it is an extension of one year. I am not just pulling this information out of my a$$ either. I went through quite a lot of persistent e-mailing to get it:

In case of Investment of no less than 3 million Baht

1. The application of visa extension(TM 7)

2. Copy of passport

3. Certificate of financial transferring

4. Certificate of time deposit from Government bank

5. Copy of purchase of government bonds issued by government official

6. Copy of official purchase agreement of flat (condo) according to assessment value from official at Land Department

(You can extension of stay for a period of one year for each time)

Name Pol.Lt.Col.Chalermpong (203.113.34.) [Tuesday 18 May 2004]

This is an email I received right from Mr. Chalermpong from Immigration Division 3 in Bangkok, www.imm3.police.go.th. My best advice would be to only

listen to the immigration in Bangkok, after all they are the ones who are making the rules. Mbkudu.

[RDN]

I am currently in the process of liquidating all of my assets in America and was planning on re-locating to Phuket (Patong Beach area) around October 2004.

No, no, no, no! John! Anywhere but Patong!!!

[ghengis]

Being over 50, I have thought about buying a condo and retiring in Thailand. With the stock market crashing and interest rates low, the prospects for a decent retirement income have taken a pounding recently. The surveys I have seen indicate that you need an income of at least 40,000 b/month to live comfortably (i.e. not like a native).

Interest rates are now rising and annuities will follow suit - see Historic UK Annuity Rates . With the world economy on the up I guess that stock market investments will rise over the next few years which means that maybe in 4-5 years time it might be a good time to retire before the next crash.

Property prices are getting to silly levels in the UK. My house bought in Dec 1999 has now doubled in value. I can't see that going on for too much longer. Maybe it would be a good idea to liquidise UK real-estate assets sometime in the next 2 years before the property market takes a dive like it did back in 1989.

I think timing is everything when thinking about when to retire - if everything is looking good then go for it.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Spend 3 million baht on a condo'. That'll give you eligibility for a visa issued in the US and extendable a year at a time in Thailand while you retain the condo'.

Could you expand on that Dr. Patpong? Does continued ownership of a BHT 3M property allow you an automatic annual extension on a visa? Which visa is this? I suppose that is in tandem with the BHT 800M or equivalent requirement.

Many thanks

I have looked into this, and technically it is not a visa. However, if you wired 3 million Baht into Thailand for a condo or government issued bonds, you could get a one year extension on an existing visa of some sort. This is an uninterupted stay of one year. It is NOT a VISA; it is an extension of one year. I am not just pulling this information out of my a$$ either. I went through quite a lot of persistent e-mailing to get it:

In case of Investment of no less than 3 million Baht

1. The application of visa extension(TM 7)

2. Copy of passport

3. Certificate of financial transferring

4. Certificate of time deposit from Government bank

5. Copy of purchase of government bonds issued by government official

6. Copy of official purchase agreement of flat (condo) according to assessment value from official at Land Department

(You can extension of stay for a period of one year for each time)

Name Pol.Lt.Col.Chalermpong (203.113.34.) [Tuesday 18 May 2004]

This is an email I received right from Mr. Chalermpong from Immigration Division 3 in Bangkok, www.imm3.police.go.th. My best advice would be to only

listen to the immigration in Bangkok, after all they are the ones who are making the rules. Mbkudu.

You need to get the appropriate non-immigrant visa at home and extend it each year provided that you retain the investment.

[ProThaiExpat]

ghengis: Your right about the amount it costs to live comfortably here, but I would say you need to own your car and house, ie. no rent or car payments inorder to make it on 40K baht a month. With time, you can reduce that amount by 10k as you settle in, as I have done. I don't dirnk, smoke or go out more than two or three restaurant meals a week, and then not to expat restaurants. Also I don't live in BKK, Pattaya or Phuket.

As far as retirement timing is c0ncerned, I lost a bundle in the 2001 stock market crash but I brought in 4 Million baht at 44 baht to the dollar, so did something right.

The cost of my home has risen in the last two years by 1500 baht a square meter for the land, although the construction cost is only up about 5%.

There are so m any issues involved in retirement planning that I doubt you will do everything right, but likewise you won't do everything wrong as well.

Good luck. Thiavisa is the place to check in regularly as you approach the time, there is no better place to get "up" on Thailand so your decisions will be based on sound knowledge, not just guess work.

[Khun ?]

Living off 40,000 baht a month. Your not retired your just not working anymore.

What is it, everyone that can afford a meal in cheap country thinks they are retired. I would venture to say it is more being a lounge lizard. Your a slave to a cheap budget and it controls everything you do. The definition most of you are using for retired would make a person drawing unemployment benefits semi retired. People not working that have to watch every baht they spend are just as miserable as a person still working to get their cash. A lazy man stops working before he has enough funds to enjoy what the world has to offer. Many people can

not work and live cheap but that does not mean they are retired.

[Khun Larry]

Living off 40,000 baht a month. Your not retired your just not working anymore.

What is it, everyone that can afford a meal in cheap country thinks they are retired. I would venture to say it is more being a lounge lizard. Your a slave to a cheap budget and it controls everything you do. The definition most of you are using for retired would make a person drawing unemployment benefits semi retired. People not working that have to watch every baht they spend are just as miserable as a person still working to get their cash. A lazy man stops working before he has enough funds to enjoy what the world has to offer. Many people can

not work and live cheap but that does not mean they are retired.

Khun ? brings up an important point. Be careful not to underestimate what you need. Many people do.

The recommended MINIMUM savings for retirement is 20 - 25 times your annual expenditures. Annual expenditures are what you spend over and above any pension or social security. If you are properly invested, a withdraw rate of 4 - 5% will essentially last forever.

So if you need 40,000 baht / mo, that is $1000/ mo = 12,000 / yr

12,000 x 25 = $300,000 of savings

If your retiring early you will need at least that as you will not get a SS for some time.

If you get $1000 / mo from social security then I suppose it is possible to get by with no savings.

Likewise $1000 / mo SS combined with a savings of $150,000 will give you a budget of $18,000 a year. That is $6000 ($150,000 x 4%) from savings plus 12,000 from SS for $18,000 a year. That is about 60,000 baht a month, not too bad.

Whatever you need best to plan well in advance.

Chookdee

[Khun ?]

In ten years or so when Thailand has plenty of asians from other countries retiring or living in Thailand with plenty of cash do these people especially westerners with 40K baht income think they are going to be desirable. Thailand is a small country with an infastructure that will become so expensive to maintain with the population growth it will no longer be feasible to accept low income retirees from outside the asian region. Hel* will there be enough petrol to get them there. Depending on the exchange rates but very easily in 5 or so years that 40K

will be less than 35K or even 30K if the exchange rate drops enough. Then again you can bet it the other way.

[ghengis]

More than 1m elderly British expatriates who worked hard all their lives to qualify for a state pension are being ordered by the Government to prove they are still alive.

And unless they do so within a tight deadline of just two months, their pensions will be taken away.

See Proof of life.

[ghengis]

I think Khun Larry is right when he says you need a retirement investment of 20-25x your annual expenditure. UK 'Inflation Proof' Annuity Rates Age 60 are around 4.5% now and this will rise as interest rates go up.

The THB exchange rate has been very volatile against sterling - so it would be unwise to assume the current good rates will last forever. I am assuming the long term GBP/THB rate will be around 50.

There seems to be a lot of crazy people in the UK who think they can retire in Thailand and go native by living in an Issan village on only 20,000 b/month. I feel that these people may have some serious shocks in the future - especially if the Thai government begin to refuse Visas for retired farangs they consider to be 'too poor'.

[Baht Simpson]

I think the thing is to follow your dreams if you want, but don't burn your bridges behind you. Always have a plan B and a plan C that will allow you alternatives, including that of returning to your own country at short notice as circumstances dictate.

[rainman]

I think the thing is to follow your dreams if you want, but don't burn your bridges behind you. Always have a plan B and a plan C that will allow you alternatives, including that of returning to your own country at short notice as circumstances dictate.

very true. you may be too young to retire, but who says you have to? find another way to achieve what you want. there's always ways around immigration laws. i'm 21 and hold a long term visa for the US and a permanent residence for Canada. i'm citizen of neither country. now, thailand is next for me..

[Khun Larry]

In ten years or so when Thailand has plenty of asians from other countries retiring or living in Thailand with plenty of cash do these people especially westerners with 40K baht income think they are going to be desirable.

I have read about Asian tourists to Thailand. The vast majority of Asians visiting Thailand are on group tour or sex tourist. They have no interest in LTR or retirement as there is little which appeals to them fo long term. So generally Asians will not retire in Thailand.

[mbkudu]

I think the thing is to follow your dreams if you want, but don't burn your bridges behind you. Always have a plan B and a plan C that will allow you alternatives, including that of returning to your own country at short notice as circumstances dictate.

very true. you may be too young to retire, but who says you have to? find another way to achieve what you want. there's always ways around immigration laws. i'm 21 and hold a long term visa for the US and a permanent residence for Canada. i'm citizen of neither country. now, thailand is next for me..

Rainman, just curious, what country do you hold citizenship in?

[LivinLOS]

I am in exactly the same position as John except being only 30 and retired here on Phuket I have even longer to wait until a 50 year retirement visa becomes appropriate..

As to 20 - 25 times your expenditure I would only hold that as safe if you are late in life... for me I would not even think about retiring without 50 - 80 times my annual expenditure at this stage of life..

John needs to look at real visa's not tourist 30 day stamps which technically prevent car ownership, bank accounts, internet banking (at my bank anyway), and many many more things that make you a second class citizen.

As I have stated many times in various threads I dont know why there is no visa for those that wish to just bring money into Thailand and spend it ?? Set the bar high and say we need to bring 1 mil baht into the country each year !!

[RDN]

As to 20 - 25 times your expenditure I would only hold that as safe if you are late in life... for me I would not even think about retiring without 50 - 80 times my annual expenditure at this stage of life..

Sure, assume you will live 'til 80, and have enough money to live 'til then.

John needs to look at real visa's not tourist 30 day stamps which technically prevent car ownership, bank accounts, internet banking (at my bank anyway), and many many more things that make you a second class citizen.

I did manage to get a bank account with just a 30 day stamp in my passport, but I have heard it is getting more difficult now.

As I have stated many times in various threads I dont know why there is no visa for those that wish to just bring money into Thailand and spend it ?? Set the bar high and say we need to bring 1 mil baht into the country each year !!

But there IS a way of doing this. Get a non-immigrant visa and transfer 3 million to a Thai bank and you qualify for a "temporary stay" of one year, renewable every year. You can buy a condo if you like with the money or just leave it there, in the bank. This is what I was going to do before they lowered the retirement visa age to 50, so I went for that instead.

Use the search facility on the site - I'm sure this has been discussed before.

[anamore]

Many people think about stopping with work and going to live in thailand, their savings being enough to have a good life. I would say get down to earth and think seriously before you start.

consider inflaction, money devaluation, your civil rights in a strange country, the years you have to go, the ones you are responsable for or could be in the future. How you want to use your time and life, what rol do you want to play? sightseeing is nice for a time but boring and useless as lifefulfillment.

when you are young and healthy maybe you think you can live with less money, but is thailand still a paradise if you have lack of money?

From my experience I can say that 40 thousand bath isn't enough for a month but for 2 weeks. Unless one thinks about getting that rich feeling from comparing your situation with the situation of the poor people around. But they have connections , family and friends and most of all are used to live that way.

A good level of life with good ensurance for healthcare also costs money in thailand. Well less than europe, but what you save you spend om planetickets to go back once or twice a year to your homeland. Otherwise it looks like exile.

This site gets so much response because western people miss the connection with their background and other western people. Thailand doesn't have it all. All places have their dis/advantages.

And what about paying taxes in thailand? nobody writes about it. Do people only think about their personal profit/benefits without being concerned about what they should/could do for their new country? It looks quite selfish and anti-social to me.

And please no story about contributing by giving money to the thai girl and her family. Charity doesn't solve the people's or the land's problems and it doesn't mean participating in the developement of thai society. It's egoinflating for the giver and not much more than that.

greetings to all

[RDN]

From my experience I can say that 40 thousand bath isn't enough for a month

I only have one a week.

(Copyright maerim)

And what about paying taxes in thailand? nobody writes about it. Do people only think about their personal profit/benefits without being concerned about what they should/could do for their new country? It looks quite selfish and anti-social to me.

Thailand and the UK have a double taxation agreement. I pay my taxes in the UK.

And please no story about contributing by giving money to the thai girl and her family. Charity doesn't solve the people's or the land's problems.

But I do, and it does.

[Khun Larry]

And what about paying taxes in thailand? nobody writes about it. Do people only think about their personal profit/benefits without being concerned about what they should/could do for their new country? It looks quite selfish and anti-social to me.

Have to disagree with you here. Taxes are for workers and citizens. Tourists and retirees are here to spend their vacation and / or retirement money. When the host country doesn't want you any more your out. So there is no mutual long term interest in the country. Some may think they have one, but actually not.