Corona Virus in Chiang Mai

[WaveHunter]

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

Some people are just too paranoid. To ban a country as huge as the USA or Europe is just silly.

 

That's just like stopping all flights from all of Europe just because London is the epicenter of a virus.

 

China has already lockdown the epicenter so it's quite safe in Thailand.

 

To make a comparison, it takes 73 England size countries to make one China.

 

"epicenter"...as in singular?  Not Correct!  Wuhan is not the only epicenter.  There are multiple epicenters of n-CoV outbreak right now throughout China (look at the map from Johns Hopkins). 

 

New confirmed case numbers are growing in all those other epicenters. With an R-naught factor of 2.6 or greater, it is spreading quite rapidly, both in number of infected cases and in geographic reach. The city seeding in other provinces confirms that the lockdown in Wuhan has been quite ineffective.

 

New seeding is also continuing to occur outside of China as well.  I would hardly call what is happening in China right now an effective lockdown.  Far from it!

 

In fact, most experts now agree that containment will be marginally effective at best within China.  As for preventing the spread outside of China, prudence dictates that strong and decisiveness measures, however draconian and unprecedented they may seem are warranted.

 

Banning all flights out of China right now only makes sense except in the most dire circumstances.  Conducting regularly scheduled flights is just irresponsible by any standard.

 

When you consider that the number of new cases continues to grow at such a fast pace within China, and especially when you consider that "confirmed" cases does not even include suspected cases that have not yet been tested, or cases that have not even been reported, this is a serious situation. 

 

In Wuhan City alone, it is estimated that there are probably over 75,000 infections with that number still growing, based on computer modeling reported a few days ago in The Lancet (which is probably the most well respected, peer-reviewed source of medical information in the world.  Computer modeling suggests it may be even as high as 133,000 cases of infection.

 

I would hardly call prompt and decisive action "just silly" even if it seems draconian and unprecedented.  This particular virus is unprecedented!

 

Epicenters of nCov in China and surrounding countries as of 07 February, according to Johns Hopkins NCoV mapping website

Edited February 7, 2020 by WaveHunter

[EricTh]

9 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

"epicenter"...as in singular?  Not Correct!  Wuhan is not the only epicenter.  There are multiple epicenters of n-CoV outbreak right now throughout China (look at the map fr

Those are not epicenter. If those are epicenters, then Thailand and Japan in the map and all neighboring countries are also considered as such.

 

Might as well ban all countries around China like Singapore and Taiwan to be 100% safe. To just ban China alone is racist.

Edited February 8, 2020 by EricTh

[saengd]

9 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

"epicenter"...as in singular?  Not Correct!  Wuhan is not the only epicenter.  There are multiple epicenters of n-CoV outbreak right now throughout China (look at the map from Johns Hopkins). 

 

New confirmed case numbers are growing in all those other epicenters. With an R-naught factor of 2.6 or greater, it is spreading quite rapidly, both in number of infected cases and in geographic reach. The city seeding in other provinces confirms that the lockdown in Wuhan has been quite ineffective.

 

New seeding is also continuing to occur outside of China as well.  I would hardly call what is happening in China right now an effective lockdown.  Far from it!

 

 

 

Those are not additional epicentres, they are seedings that are developing. This is very clearly a containment issue or lack of, the same development of seedings cannot be seen in other countries where flu has been seen.

[chingmai331]

3500 km from S'pore to Wuhan.  Not exactly next door.  

And racism usually implies 'superiority' in your own race.  I certainly don't think white folk are 'superior' to yellow folk, but white folk don't generally eat bats and get sick.

[WaveHunter]

13 hours ago, Trujillo said:

Wearing masks are not useful: 

 

WHO says masks no protection for healthy people

 

"How Big Are Coronavirus Particles?

The 2019 Novel Coronavirus, or 2019 nCoV, is a new respiratory virus first identified in Wuhan in China’s Hubei Province. Scientists have already taken electron microscope images to measure the size of coronavirus “virions” (or particles). The virions are spherical particles with diameters of approximately 125 nm (0.125 microns). The smallest particles are 0.06 microns, and the largest are 0.14 microns.

 

That makes the coronavirus particles smaller than PM2.5 particles, but bigger than some dust particles and gases."

That's true, but the main reason I'll use a mask is simply to avoid touching your face with your hands. The virus can survive outside of the body on countertop surfaces, door knobs, store products, anything an infected person might touch, and the nCoV virus remains active outside of the body for quite some time.

 

When out in public a mask and alcohol-based sanitizer is still the best way to stay safe.

 

When you arrive home the very first thing that should become a habit is removing your shoes before you enter your home if that's possible or at least taking them off and leaving them by the door.  Active viruses in streets, sidewalks, and floors should not be under-estimated.

 

It goes without saying that as soon as you are home, you should thoroughly wash your hands and face with soap and water for at least 20 seconds.

 

Think this is overdoing it?  I don't.

Edited February 8, 2020 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, saengd said:

Those are not additional epicentres, they are seedings that are developing. This is very clearly a containment issue or lack of, the same development of seedings cannot be seen in other countries where flu has been seen.

You don't think a province with confirmed cases exceeding or approaching 1,000 and growing exponentially are not new epicenters?   Think again!

 

Current city lockdowns outside of Hubei Province:

Zhejiang province - All major cities in lockdown

Liaoning Province - All cities in lockdown

Henan Province - All cities in lockdown

Sichuan Province - All cities in lockdown

Guangzhou Province - Cities of Shenzhen, Hangzhou, Nanjing, Chongqing, Kunming, Haiko, Fuhou, Suzhou...and the list is growing rapidly in the Guangzhou province, which now has the highest number of confirmed cases outside of Hebei province.

Shanghai in the Jiangsu Province is about to go in lockdown.

 

These lockdowns and the number of confirmed cases in other Provinces shown below is strong proof that city seeding has occurred despite the lockdown in Wuhan and the Hubei Province, and new cases are growing exponentially in them as well.  That, to me, makes them new epicenters.

 

You really think this list is not indicative of new epicenters?  Think again!

 

 

The only reason that significant international seeding has not occured yet is because of strong action by country leadership outside of China to screen and contain.

 

Nonetheless, cases outside of China continue to grow so international seeding is absolutely continuing to happen, and most foreign nation are acknowledging this with not only containment efforts but "field hospital strategies".

 

Consider that major "field hospital" strategies are being put into place for 10's of thousands of beds in the USA.  They are not merely considering it, they are being put into place now.  That is incredibly expensive and a logistic nightmare that would not be in progress if they thought that there is nothing to worry about.

 

People that are still in denial thinking that this is not a real global crisis need to grow up and face reality!

Edited February 8, 2020 by WaveHunter

[samuttodd]

28 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

You don't think a province with confirmed cases exceeding or approaching 1,000 and growing exponentially are not

 

People that are still in denial thinking that this is not a real global crisis need to grow up and face reality!

Good luck with that.  Just be patient and take care of what you can,  you can not help those who choose not to see/hear your message.

Let the disease do the talking,   it'll be heard.   

 

Save your energy for getting better when you get sick.   I believe we'll need all of our strength and a full measure of good fortune.

[WaveHunter]

18 minutes ago, samuttodd said:

Good luck with that.  Just be patient and take care of what you can,  you can not help those who choose not to see/hear your message.

Let the disease do the talking,   it'll be heard.   

 

Save your energy for getting better when you get sick.   I believe we'll need all of our strength and a full measure of good fortune.

We can all make a difference in this crisis simply by taking it seriously.  People that don't take it seriously, won't take precautions seriously either. 

 

How many people are going to be religiously washing their hands when they return home or taking off their shoes before entering their homes for instance, if they think this is just all being blown out of proportion?

 

If they don't take serious precautions and get sick, that affects all of us because of how infectious this virus really is, and the fact that those that are infected can be spreading the virus to many others with no outward signs that they are even infected.

 

At least with SARS, people were not able to spread the virus until they showed outward symptoms.  That is not the case with nCoV.

 

Just because the crisis is in China right now and not here in Chiang Mai is not cause to think it is someone else's problem.  Not when all it takes is one infected person to give it to 3 healthy people, who will then give it to three more healthy people, and so, and so on. 

 

Anywhere there is an nCoV infection, things can get out of control very fast!  

 

Nobody should consider this "someone else's" problem or responsibility.  The problem and responsibility belongs to all of us.

Edited February 8, 2020 by WaveHunter

[steven100]

A major cruise line has taken the extraordinary step of banning citizens of China regardless of when they were last there, while there was sorrow and anger over the coronavirus death of a doctor from Wuhan who had been reprimanded for sounding an early warning about the disease.

[samuttodd]

I get what you are saying Wavehunter,  bt it is kind of like throwing a party.

 

You can invite all of the neighbors and put on a good time with festivites and all,  but you can't force attendees to have the time of their lives.  

[XGM]

The term "epicenter" is confusing and irrelevant to the discussion here. Yes, it most probably started in Wuhan's infamous wet market. One could claim that very limited area to be "the epicenter". It has no practical implications for handling the situation today.

 

The real issue isn't what is the size or location of any such "epicenter" but where does significant seeding of new cases is taking place, and more specifically, where is the number of cases too big for the local medical infrastructure to identify and treat in a timely fashion.

 

All such places need to be isolated. However when the number of cases and spread is so large, we can safely assume there are many cases that weren't confirmed yet. No intentional hiding or elaborate conspiracy theories are necessary to reach this conclusion. Simply - lack of resources. Further, we can't only ban flights with people who visited some specific cities during the last month, such analysis / investigation of individual travel record isn't feasible. In my opinion, a temporary ban of flights from all of China is therefore justified.

Edited February 8, 2020 by XGM

[RJRS1301]

Diarrhea may be a secondary path of transmission for the novel coronavirus, scientists said Friday following the publication of the latest study reporting patients with abdominal symptoms and loose stool.

The primary path is believed to be virus-laden droplets from an infected person’s cough, though researchers in early cases have said they focused heavily on patients with respiratory symptoms and may have overlooked those linked to the digestive tract.

A total of 14 out of 138 patients (10 percent) in a Wuhan hospital who were studied in the new paper by Chinese authors in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) initially presented with diarrhea and nausea one or two days prior to development of fever and labored breathing.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-doctors-warned-to-protect-eyes-as-researchers-narrow-down-animal-host/news-story/67a0eae01f25052cb5f1df305933a071

 

[WaveHunter]

49 minutes ago, XGM said:

The term "epicenter" is confusing and irrelevant to the discussion here. Yes, it most probably started in Wuhan's infamous wet market. One could claim that very limited area to be "the epicenter". It has no practical implications for handling the situation today.

 

The real issue isn't what is the size or location of any such "epicenter" but where does significant seeding of new cases is taking place, and more specifically, where is the number of cases too big for the local medical infrastructure to identify and treat in a timely fashion.

 

All such places need to be isolated. However when the number of cases and spread is so large, we can safely assume there are many cases that weren't confirmed yet. No intentional hiding or elaborate conspiracy theories are necessary to reach this conclusion. Simply - lack of resources. Further, we can't only ban flights with people who visited some specific cities during the last month, such analysis / investigation of individual travel record isn't feasible. In my opinion, a temporary ban of flights from all of China is therefore justified.

Yes, right on the money!  There is no need to precisely define the term ''epicenter"  The fact that this virus which seems to originated in Wuhan has now spread throughout China in only a matter of a few weeks is proof enough that containment in Wuhan did not work, and it appears to not be working in those new regions either.

 

Seeding has occured as that chart I posted attests.  The numbers in those new areas are now growing exponentially.  That's all you need to know in order to take this very seriously.

 

The fact that international seeding continues to take place despite the best efforts of the international community is cause for concern that those number will also continue to grow.

 

People just need to take their head out of the sand and face the truth...this is serous and should be treated as such by all of us, irregardless of where we call home.

Edited February 8, 2020 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

54 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Diarrhea may be a secondary path of transmission for the novel coronavirus, scientists said...

 

I think the most underrated form of transmission is hand-to-mouth.  It is not yet known how long the virus can survive outside a host, but in other viruses, the range is between a few hours and months.  It's just to early in this outbreak to really know what it is for nCoV.

 

Most other coronavirus such as SARS for instance, can only survive for a few hours outside of a living organism, but the fact is that we just don't know with nCoV.

 

Irregardless, if it is only a few hours, that's all it takes for you to pick it up on your hands or shoes, and for it to find its way into your respiratory tract.

 

This means that if nCov is on a countertop, a doorknob, or the floor, sidewalk or street, it can find its' way to a healthy person.  Touching your face with your hands is a viable form of transmission.  Getting in your eyes from rubbing them can be as well.  Most people don't even consider the likelihood of picking it up on your shoes which will bring into your home.

 

So, IMO, take this seriously. 

• Wear a mask to prevent hand-to-face transmission and use alcohol-based hand sanitizers when out and about in public.
• Wash your hands at least for 20 seconds with soap and water when returning home.
• Remove your shoes and leave them outside your door before entering your home, or at least as soon as you enter, leaving them by the door.

 

Remember, with nCoV we just do not know what to expect unlike other viruses such as Influenza that we understand far better and that we have vaccines for.

 

Practicing due diligence is not just for your own safety; it is for the safety of everyone you come in contact with, and everyone they come in contact, and so on, and so on. 

 

This is a very infectious virus!  It only takes one person (you?) to cause dozens of others to become infected.  We all have a responsibility in containing this virus.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by WaveHunter

[samuttodd]

 

 

Dont watch this before bed.

[WaveHunter]

4 hours ago, EricTh said:

Those are not epicenter. If those are epicenters, then Thailand and Japan in the map and all neighboring countries are also considered as such.

 

Might as well ban all countries around China like Singapore and Taiwan to be 100% safe. To just ban China alone is racist.

With all due respect stop being obtuse and nitpicking the definition of "epicenter".   Call them nodes if you prefer.  It is real and it is serious.  Just look at the numbers! 

 

Here are just the top 4 provinces for highest number of confirmed cases outside of Hubei province.  All provinces in China are in fact showing steady growth in confirmed cases, but consider these:

 

1075 cases in Guangdong province

1048 cases in Zhejiang province

981 cases in Henan province

803 cases in Hunan province

 

Remember that there is roughly a two week lag time between the outbreak in Wuhan with outbreaks in these other provinces, so imagine what the number will be in two weeks from now, using the growth figures for the last two weeks in Wuhan as a benchmark!

 

Compare that with those regions you mention:

Japan with 89 cases

Singapore with 83 cases

Thailand with 25 cases

Taiwan with 16 cases.

 

I am not minimizing the seriousness of these other countries either.  Confirmed cases are growing steadily in all despite the best containment efforts. 

 

In China however, these provinces I am listing are truly new, self-sustaining and growing "nodes" (if you don't like to use the term "epicenter").  Call it whatever you like it is real and it is serious!

 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

At least one case of n-CoV in North Korea reported as likely now, and perhaps up to five deaths may be attributable to n-CoV

 

The global significance of a possible outbreak in North Korea should be considered.  Unlike China and most other developed nations of the world, the medical infrastructure within North Korea is not at all prepared or equipped to deal with a potential epidemic like this. 

 

What's more, The North Korean leadership has a history of failing to report outbreaks of contagious diseases, or has under reported deaths caused by outbreaks. North Korean officials appear to have been concerned that frank reports about outbreaks could lead to internal unrest or pose a danger to the regime.

 

North Korea’s state-run media reported on worldwide deaths caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in 2003, the Ebola virus in 2014 and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) in 2015, but failed to publish any reports on infection cases in the country.

 

Naturally official reports from the North Korean government (DPRK) do not confirm the case mentioned below, and being widely reported, or the cause of the five deaths being reported but many different independent (albeit anonymous) sources from within North Korea are reporting these two news items:

 

A Pyongyang citizen who returned from China appears to be North Korea’s first confirmed case of the new coronavirus, a source exclusively told the JoongAng Ilbo Friday.

The source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, told the paper that North Korean officials have been isolating everyone who recently visited a foreign country and testing them for the coronavirus. During this process, one woman from the North Korean capital tested positive, said the source.

It was not immediately known exactly when she was diagnosed, but the source said she was showing symptoms of the virus.  Everyone who had close contact with the patient has also been quarantined, said the source.

-------------------------------------

Daily NK sources in North Pyongan Province reported yesterday that five people died after suffering from fevers at hospitals in Sinuiju and a nearby area, and have speculated the patients suffered from coronavirus infections.

 

Daily NK sources said that North Korean authorities have ordered public health officials in Sinuiju to quickly dispose of the bodies and keep the deaths secret from the public.

 

The World Health Organization (WHO) has yet to officially confirm any cases of Wuhan coronavirus infections in North Korea. The WHO, however, bases its data regarding infection cases on reports provided by the North Korean government, which means there are limits to confirming the veracity of the WHO’s data.

Edited February 8, 2020 by WaveHunter

[khwaibah]

KTVN Channel 2 News

1 hr · 

The U.S. Embassy in Beijing says a 60-year-old U.S. citizen diagnosed with the virus died in Wuhan, apparently the first American fatality of the outbreak.

The U.S. Embassy in Beijing says a 60-year-old U.S. citizen diagnosed with the virus died in Wuhan, apparently the first American fatality of the outbreak.

KTVN.COM

 

First US Citizen Fatality Of Coronavirus In China

The U.S. Embassy in Beijing says a 60-year-old U.S. citizen diagnosed with the virus died in Wuhan, apparently the first American fatality of the outbreak.

 

[nrasmussen]

21 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Yeah, I agree that flights continuing to come in from China are very troubling.  I don't understand the rationale behind that at all.  Thai Airways has cancelled flights with six Chinese cities including Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Khun Ming,  Chengdu and Xiamen.  It would be nice to know why any inbound routes are still being flown,  but I can't find anything about the rationale behind that through Google searching.

To be more precise, THAI is still flying to/from these cities, but has reduced the number of daily/weekly flights in order to match demand: https://www.thaiairways.com/en_TH/news/news_announcement/news_detail/coronavirus.page

[WaveHunter]

11 minutes ago, nrasmussen said:

To be more precise, THAI is still flying to/from these cities, but has reduced the number of daily/weekly flights in order to match demand: https://www.thaiairways.com/en_TH/news/news_announcement/news_detail/coronavirus.page

Thanks for clarification.  You are correct.  I sure can't imagine sitting on one of those flights for several hours breathing recirculated air with strangers who may be infected.  The concerns for picking up a bug are bad enough under normal circumstances without any outbreak to be concerned about.

 

A lot of Chinese people are bragging on social media and providing tips on how to game the containment and get on outbound flights.  Check out WeChat and you'll see what I mean.  I sure won't be on one of those flights.

 

 

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

New World Order might have more than one virus in it's plan.  dailypost.ng/2020/02/07/benue-killer-disease-a-mystery-its-not-ebola-lassa-fever-or-coronavirus-nigerian-govt/  

[samuttodd]

Well,   now that everybody is in the loop on the virus situation and understands the badness potential,   I am not going to send any further information on it unless somebody asks,  or somebody I know personally gets it.

 

Enough energy in that direction.    Time for psychologic "quantum triage."  

 

I am going to ask you to do me a favor.  It is kind of an experiment in "changing the narrative" as Dr Miller might say.

 

I am asking you to make up a different ending to the story we are in.   You don't have to share it with me or with anybody if you don't want to.

 

The important part is to visualize it in your mind as it would happen if you could change the situation. If you could right this capsized ship.  Revisit the new script throughout the day.

See it,  watch it.

 

You could consider it a prayer or a special ritual to lend help if that works better.

 

[EricTh]

delete

Edited February 9, 2020 by EricTh

[EricTh]

21 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

With all due respect stop being obtuse and nitpicking the definition of "epicenter".   Call them nodes if you prefer.  It is real and it is serious.  Just look at the numbers! 

 

 

 

I wonder what happened to American doctor's oath not to turn away dying patients ?

 

What if you are dying, and the doctor refused to let you in because it is infectious. How would you feel?

 

I praise Thailand for not closing their doors and actually cured some of them. That is what I call Buddhist compassion. The number of recovered cases is actually the highest outside China at 10 people and no death so far.

 

 

The first (or first few) country to ban China is USA which tells a lot of their political people and 'compassionate' doctors. 

Edited February 9, 2020 by EricTh

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

 

I wonder what happened to American doctor's oath not to turn away dying patients ?

 

What if you are dying, and the doctor refused to let you in because it is infectious. How would you feel?

 

I praise Thailand for not closing their doors and actually cured some of them. That is what I call Buddhist compassion. The number of recovered cases is actually the highest outside China at 10 people and no death so far.

 

 

The first (or first few) country to ban China is USA which tells a lot of their political people and 'compassionate' doctors. 

No offence intended but your argument makes very little sense to me.  America is protecting its' people from a very dangerous viral outbreak and which is (irregardless of what many think) a very real and present danger for the entire global community! 

 

The prime directive of any nation on earth is to assure the safety and well-being of its' own citizens above all else.  That is how you define a nation; by its ability to do that.

 

The American government has not only acted responsibly in reacting to this crisis (unlike how China has reacted), but they have also acted compassionately towards China and its' people. 

 

Over a month ago, as soon as this outbreak became international news, the United States' Center for Disease Control (The CDC) offered their assistance to China, and the Chinese Central government completely ignored the offer since they were more concerned with trying to deny there was a problem, wanting the world to believe that they had everything under control! 

 

Sorry, but I just don't buy your argument that America is a villain in this crisis at all!

 

As for Thailand's response, make no mistake, they are acting responsibly in protecting their citizens as well with strong measure not to let the virus inside its' borders.  The cases they have treated were inside of Thailand already, and treating them was not only compassionate as you say, but in the national interest in order to contain this virus and protect its' citizens.

Edited February 9, 2020 by WaveHunter

[saengd]

42 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

No offence intended but your argument makes very little sense to me.  America is protecting its' people from a very dangerous viral outbreak and which is (irregardless of what many think) a very real and present danger for the entire global community! 

 

The prime directive of any nation on earth is to assure the safety and well-being of its' own citizens above all else.  That is how you define a nation; by its ability to do that.

 

The American government has not only acted responsibly in reacting to this crisis (unlike how China has reacted), but they have also acted compassionately towards China and its' people. 

 

Over a month ago, as soon as this outbreak became international news, the United States' Center for Disease Control (The CDC) offered their assistance to China, and the Chinese Central government completely ignored the offer since they were more concerned with trying to deny there was a problem, wanting the world to believe that they had everything under control! 

 

Sorry, but I just don't buy your argument that America is a villain in this crisis at all!

 

As for Thailand's response, make no mistake, they are acting responsibly in protecting their citizens as well with strong measure not to let the virus inside its' borders.  The cases they have treated were inside of Thailand already, and treating them was not only compassionate as you say, but in the national interest in order to contain this virus and protect its' citizens.

"The prime directive of any nation on earth is to assure the safety and well-being of its' own citizens above all else.  That is how you define a nation; by its ability to do that".

 

Horse poo!

 

Zimbabwe, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Rwanda, Myanmar, Congo etc etc

[WaveHunter]

13 minutes ago, saengd said:

"The prime directive of any nation on earth is to assure the safety and well-being of its' own citizens above all else.  That is how you define a nation; by its ability to do that".

 

Horse poo!

 

Zimbabwe, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Rwanda, Myanmar, Congo etc etc

Grow up buddy; educate yourself of what the definition of a nation actually is.  If it is not for the purpose of protecting the safety and well-being of its' own citizens, then what exactly is its' purpose? 

 

Your logic leads me to believe that if you are an American, you may be part of the lunatic fringe of the Democratic Party LOL.  No offense intended...just saying that you sound like you are living in an make-believe world where open borders should prevail, and nothing bad ever happens.

Edited February 9, 2020 by WaveHunter

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

educate yourself of what the definition of a nation actually is.  If it is not for the purpose of protecting the safety and well-being of its' own citizens, then what exactly is its' purpose? 

Definition of a Nation: To protect the lives, assets, family and futures of the people that are in control.

(That definition works for most countries far better than your definition)

Edited February 9, 2020 by BritManToo

[saengd]

5 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Grow up buddy; educate yourself of what the definition of a nation actually is.  If it is not for the purpose of protecting the safety and well-being of its' own citizens, then what is its' purpose? 

 

Your logic leads me to believe that if you are an American, you may be part of the lunatic fringe of the Democratic Party LOL.

No mate, British, not that it matters one jot, you are still misguided in your proclamation.

 

What you should have written but didn't is, the objective of a nation is..... , whether or not they achieve that is clear, many don't.

 

The purpose of a nation is nothing more than a grouping of people with similar ethnic, religious and racial profiles.

 

If you're going to play with words, pick the right ones.

[WaveHunter]

23 minutes ago, saengd said:

No mate, British, not that it matters one jot, you are still misguided in your proclamation.

 

What you should have written but didn't is, the objective of a nation is..... , whether or not they achieve that is clear, many don't.

 

The purpose of a nation is nothing more than a grouping of people with similar ethnic, religious and racial profiles.

 

If you're going to play with words, pick the right ones.

You are being foolish if you really believe what you just said. 

 

Objectives, directives...quibble with words if you like.  That's what most people resort to when they disagree with something that they don't understand or have positions they can not defend with logical thought.

 

The fact remains that democratic nations exists for the protection of their citizens.  In America, we have every possible ethnic, religious and racial type, all united as a nation.  Specific ethnic, religious and racial type do not define the American nation at all!  Nor do they in your country!

 

Preserving the rights of its' citizens, and providing for their safety and well-being, and basically defending their right to exists under common beliefs define most democratic nations in the world

 

Others like the China, under the current rule of the CCP or North Korea under the rule of the DPRK do it for the good of the Ruling party (over the good of its' citizens).  But ALL nations on earth have the same objective...to defend their right to exist as nation states.

Edited February 9, 2020 by WaveHunter