Sovereignty comes first: Britain lays out tough stance for EU trade talks

[nauseus]

12 hours ago, bannork said:

German trade with the UK comprises 6.6% of its exports. 2.6% of its GDP.

UK trade with the EU comprises 45% of its exports, 8% of its GDP.

 

Be fair! Why not quote UK trade with Germany as a proper comparison? 

 

Oh! I know!

[bannork]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Be fair! Why not quote UK trade with Germany as a proper comparison? 

 

Oh! I know!

I'm glad you know. It's because we're involved in trade talks with the EU, not just Germany.

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, bannork said:

I'm glad you know. It's because we're involved in trade talks with the EU, not just Germany.

So why quote "German trade with the UK" then?

[vogie]

Great to see the UK take a seat next to the USA at the WTO.

 

 

[bannork]

21 minutes ago, nauseus said:

So why quote "German trade with the UK" then?

To demonstrate how much smaller the effect of a breakdown in trade talks would be on Germany compared to the UK.

The £274 billion exports of goods and services to other EU countries were worth 13.4% of the value of the British economy in 2017. It’s been at around 12-15% over the past decade.

Exports from the rest of the EU to the UK were worth about 3-4% of the size of the remaining EU’s economy in 2016. The exact number depends on whether you use the £394 billion figure from EU goods and services data, or £315 billion from UK data.

 

 

[bannork]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Great to see the UK take a seat next to the USA at the WTO.

 

 

I think it's clear Boris is going all out for a UK US trade deal and is prepared to go out at the end of the year on WTO trading terms with the EU.  The US have made it clear a UK- US deal means no deal with the EU.

It's unbelievable that a country would sacrifice 45% of its exports to the EU for 10% for the US.

You couldn't make this sort of stuff up!

 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Rent-a-rant

"Do, Do, Do, Do, Do-da-do-do"...?

Edited February 4, 2020 by evadgib

[Rookiescot]

My word the gammons are fractious today.

 

Its almost as if they have suddenly woken up to a few realities. 

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Any import duties of UK products into the EU will have to be matched by similar reciprocal duties, which will be more than a LOT more and which will damage the EU budget more than it is going to be already. Yes, Greece is growing again but it is slow and their debt is still crippling. 

Nonsense. The total EU budget for 2018 was about 161 billion euros. The UK's net contribution was about 8 percent of the total  which amounts to 13 billion euros. Germany's budget surplus alone is many times that. 

 

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

The European/EU differential is important here. How interesting that the top two countries in the purchasing power rankings (namely Liechtenstein and Switzerland) are not in the EU. 

Very interesting. Both are members of EFTA which means they have to abide by most EU laws and rules on the one hand, but on the other they don't get to vote on them. Given the fecklessness of Farage and his ilk, maybe it would be better for the UK to follow their path to prosperity.

[winslowsjardine]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Nonsense. The total EU budget for 2018 was about 161 billion euros. The UK's net contribution was about 8 percent of the total  which amounts to 13 billion euros. Germany's budget surplus alone is many times that. 

 

Very interesting. Both are members of EFTA which means they have to abide by most EU laws and rules on the one hand, but on the other they don't get to vote on them. Given the fecklessness of Farage and his ilk, maybe it would be better for the UK to follow their path to prosperity.

Funny

[evadgib]

46 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

My word the gammons are fractious today.

 

Its almost as if they have suddenly woken up to a few realities. 

Yep, last week ????

[samran]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Great to see the UK take a seat next to the USA at the WTO.

 

 

The same WTO that the US is white anting and has made ineffective? 

[Rookiescot]

21 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Yep, last week ????

Remember that you own this.

No amount of false bravado from all the thin skinned Brexiteers is going to cover the damage which is going to be self inflicted.

No slogans. No banal speeches from liar Johnson. No blaming others for all the grief.

You guys own this. You all sucked up those lies from the Leave campaign. 

Now man up.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, samran said:

The same WTO that the US is white anting and has made ineffective? 

For those of us that has never heard the Australian expression White Anting: Fair dinkum on yer mate.

 

white anting

A term used when a bloke tries to steal another blokes misses

Wylie: hey mate did Fabio just steal your misses
Aaron: Yea mate I've just been white anted
Wylie: Maaaan That's white anting all right

[evadgib]

8 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Remember that you own this.

No amount of false bravado from all the thin skinned Brexiteers is going to cover the damage which is going to be self inflicted.

No slogans. No banal speeches from liar Johnson. No blaming others for all the grief.

You guys own this. You all sucked up those lies from the Leave campaign. 

Now man up.

The entire country owns it pal; 'losers consent' an' all that. Give it a rest.

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by evadgib

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The entire country owns it pal; 'losers consent' an' all that. Give it a rest.

 

I dont own it. Neither does the rest of the 48%.

Only the clowns who listened to Johnson own it.

[evadgib]

Which part of 

Quote

Losers consent

are you still struggling with?

[samran]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

For those of us that has never heard the Australian expression White Anting: Fair dinkum on yer mate.

 

white anting

A term used when a bloke tries to steal another blokes misses

Wylie: hey mate did Fabio just steal your misses
Aaron: Yea mate I've just been white anted
Wylie: Maaaan That's white anting all right

Wow - that wasn’t even funny. 
 

Keep it up though, one day you’ll get there...

[adammike]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I dont own it. Neither does the rest of the 48%.

Only the clowns who listened to Johnson own it.

What he said.

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, adammike said:

What he said.

As neither have the wit or imagination to make your insults remotely enjoyable I think i'll call that it for today.

G'night all ????

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, bannork said:

I think it's clear Boris is going all out for a UK US trade deal and is prepared to go out at the end of the year on WTO trading terms with the EU.  The US have made it clear a UK- US deal means no deal with the EU.

It's unbelievable that a country would sacrifice 45% of its exports to the EU for 10% for the US.

You couldn't make this sort of stuff up!

 

UK businesses can and will still trade with the EU, even with tariffs. Plus a lot of UK trade will go elsewhere in 2021, with many companies already reaching out to new markets. 45% of UK exports will not just evaporate if there is no deal with the EU. 

 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, bannork said:

To demonstrate how much smaller the effect of a breakdown in trade talks would be on Germany compared to the UK.

The £274 billion exports of goods and services to other EU countries were worth 13.4% of the value of the British economy in 2017. It’s been at around 12-15% over the past decade.

Exports from the rest of the EU to the UK were worth about 3-4% of the size of the remaining EU’s economy in 2016. The exact number depends on whether you use the £394 billion figure from EU goods and services data, or £315 billion from UK data.

 

 

Wrong answer. -1 for deviation.

[nauseus]

26 minutes ago, evadgib said:

As neither have the wit or imagination to make your insults remotely enjoyable I think i'll call that it for today.

G'night all ????

G'nite Ned.

[englishoak]

2 hours ago, bannork said:

I think it's clear Boris is going all out for a UK US trade deal and is prepared to go out at the end of the year on WTO trading terms with the EU.  The US have made it clear a UK- US deal means no deal with the EU.

It's unbelievable that a country would sacrifice 45% of its exports to the EU for 10% for the US.

You couldn't make this sort of stuff up!

 

 

Dont be ridiculous,  trade would still happen just on WTO rules... the vast majority of the world does so through WTO rules, Australia has been doing that with the EU for decades.. Its not a question of the EU free trade or none but rather is it worth the trouble for a bit of tax ? 10% with the US could be double or treble in a few years. Its a matter of weighing future trade deals with others over being constrained with the EU. id rather WTO have a clean break and put up with a bit of trade tarriffs, it will work both ways so Germany will feel it in the auto market France in ts autos wine and cheese .. etc etc. Still going to cost the EU far more overall than the UK if things go to WTO.. Im not bothered tbh. but free trade would be the best for all. 

[samran]

4 minutes ago, englishoak said:

 

Dont be ridiculous,  trade would still happen just on WTO rules... the vast majority of the world does so through WTO rules, Australia has been doing that with the EU for decades.. Its not a question of the EU free trade or none but rather is it worth the trouble for a bit of tax ? 10% with the US could be double or treble in a few years. Its a matter of weighing future trade deals with others over being constrained with the EU. id rather WTO have a clean break and put up with a bit of trade tarriffs, it will work both ways so Germany will feel it in the auto market France in ts autos wine and cheese .. etc etc. Still going to cost the EU far more overall than the UK if things go to WTO.. Im not bothered tbh. but free trade would be the best for all. 

Yeah, and Australia only exports about GBP 10 Billion worth of goods to the EU per year, whereas the UK does nearly GBP 300 billion.

 

Australia doesn't need a trade deal with the EU anywhere near as much. That's why WTO rules are fine why we focus on deals with markets closer to home.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

Nonsense. The total EU budget for 2018 was about 161 billion euros. The UK's net contribution was about 8 percent of the total  which amounts to 13 billion euros. Germany's budget surplus alone is many times that. 

 

Very interesting. Both are members of EFTA which means they have to abide by most EU laws and rules on the one hand, but on the other they don't get to vote on them. Given the fecklessness of Farage and his ilk, maybe it would be better for the UK to follow their path to prosperity.

Nonsense back at ya: EU budget contributions by member states are nothing to do with this. Liechtenstein and Switzerland are not in the EU - EFTA is largely away from the political mire - they certainly do not abide by "most" EU, laws, rules and policies.    

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

Nonsense. The total EU budget for 2018 was about 161 billion euros. The UK's net contribution was about 8 percent of the total  which amounts to 13 billion euros. Germany's budget surplus alone is many times that. 

 

Very interesting. Both are members of EFTA which means they have to abide by most EU laws and rules on the one hand, but on the other they don't get to vote on them. Given the fecklessness of Farage and his ilk, maybe it would be better for the UK to follow their path to prosperity.

You are mixing EFTA and EEA. Both countries are members of EFTA, yes.

 

Liechtenstein is party to the EEA (same as UK was last week) Switzerland is not party to the EEA.

 

Liechtenstein has the law/rule burden as you describe, it follows the EEA membership not the EFTA membership.

Switzerland does not have that burden (in the same way).

The "abide" challenges that Switzerland meets are due to the CH-EU arrangements, which are quite

separate from EFTA and EEA.

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by melvinmelvin
grammar

[englishoak]

1 minute ago, samran said:

Yeah, and Australia only exports about GBP 10 Billion worth of goods to the EU per year, whereas the UK does nearly GBP 300 billion.

 

Australia doesn't need a trade deal with the EU anywhere near as much. That's why WTO rules are fine why we focus on deals with markets closer to home.

Your joking  I hope, until we joined the EU the UK was Australia's biggest trading partner. so much for closer to home.  You also fail to mention that EU trade is around 500B and that would also take a hit, not in the least those nations like Germany and France etc  hit the hardest.

 

Its a two way street as you well know, both sides would be hit, So what does that prove ? absolutely nothing tbh, free trade deal or take a hit, who needs the break most ? not sure tbh but the Uk is far more flexible and able to make adjustments than the Eu can and its not a small economy.... free trade deal is still best for all so the EU would be better off dropping imo its stupid and out of date demands. If its going to be stubborn and cut its nose off then so be it, we have already left and will adjust quickly enough. Eu not so much. Bring it !

[bristolboy]

10 minutes ago, englishoak said:

 

 10% with the US could be double or treble in a few years. Its a matter of weighing future trade deals with others over being constrained with the EU. id rather WTO have a clean break and put up with a bit of trade tarriffs, it will work both ways so Germany will feel it in the auto market France in ts autos wine and cheese .. etc etc. Still going to cost the EU far more overall than the UK if things go to WTO.. Im not bothered tbh. but free trade would be the best for all. 

 

3 minutes ago, samran said:

Yeah, and Australia only exports about GBP 10 Billion worth of goods to the EU per year, whereas the UK does nearly GBP 300 billion.

 

Australia doesn't need a trade deal with the EU anywhere near as much. That's why WTO rules are fine why we focus on deals with markets closer to home.

In line with what Samran say, it's a virtual universally observed phenomenon that geography matters hugely in regards to how much trade is done between nations. Simply put, the closer 2 nations are, the more goods and services they are likely to sell to each each other. (Of course, the size of the respective economies matters, too)  Economists call this phenomenon "gravity". So when Englishoak asserts that trade with the US could double or triple in the wake of Brexit, that would be virtually impossible in terms of world trade. Especially given that the trade barriers between the US and the UK weren't really that great to begin with except for a few exceptions like agriculture and autos. Tariffs were and are mostly very low between the EU and the USA.

[bannork]

19 minutes ago, englishoak said:

Your joking  I hope, until we joined the EU the UK was Australia's biggest trading partner. so much for closer to home.  You also fail to mention that EU trade is around 500B and that would also take a hit, not in the least those nations like Germany and France etc  hit the hardest.

 

Its a two way street as you well know, both sides would be hit, So what does that prove ? absolutely nothing tbh, free trade deal or take a hit, who needs the break most ? not sure tbh but the Uk is far more flexible and able to make adjustments than the Eu can and its not a small economy.... free trade deal is still best for all so the EU would be better off dropping imo its stupid and out of date demands. If its going to be stubborn and cut its nose off then so be it, we have already left and will adjust quickly enough. Eu not so much. Bring it !

The consequences of a no-deal Brexit:

The EU’s average tariff rate is 3%, but tariffs would be much higher for certain products. Some examples:

Food: The EU’s average most-favored nation tariff rates are 11.1% for agricultural goods, 15.7% for animal products and 35.4% for dairy.

Automobiles: British carmakers would face a 10% tariff on all auto exports to the EU. Those levies could exceed 5.7 billion euros ($6.3 billion) per year and increase the average price of a British car sold in the EU.

Prices would increase for certain European imports, including food, cars and textiles. The U.K. has proposed to replicate the EU’s tariff commitments and quotas at the WTO. That means U.K. tariff rates on imports of certain European goods would increase from their current rate of zero. They include:

 Cars: A 10% tariff.

Cod and Haddock: A 12% tariff.

Suits, clothing and other apparel: A 12% tariff.

Britain would also impose tariffs and import quotas on beef, lamb, fish, poultry and swine.

A point worth mentioning that may well restrict our ability to strike trade deals outside the EU is we  may lose continuity of trade relations with many of the 72 nations that have forged preferential trade agreements with the EU, including Canada, Japan and Turkey.

WTO tariffs would likely apply to British goods and services exported to nations where the U.K. fails to roll over EU agreements. For example:

Japan may introduce a 12% tariff on British tea and a 19% levy on malt.

Canada may impose a 6.1% tariff on British cars and a 25% charge on dredging vessels.

Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, the U.K.’s tax-collecting agency, estimated that British businesses would spend 15 billion pounds ($19.6 billion) extra per year on paperwork in the event of a “no deal” Brexit.

U.K. service industries such as finance, law and accounting could lose preferred access to the European single market, which provides freedom of establishment (the right to set up a business or work as a self-employed person) and free movement of people within the EU trading bloc. That points to more red tape and headaches for Britain’s services providers, who collectively make up 79% of the U.K. economy and 45% of exports.

Cross-border services companies would need to hire lawyers and accountants to help them navigate a complex constellation of European regulatory, legal and administrative hurdles.

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by bannork