Non O Retirement expires - what Effects

[factseeker]

My wife and I have had Non O Retirement Visa for past eight years but due to delays in a House purchase in Europe we are going to miss our renewal date.

We originally obtained them via the 30 day - 90 day route.

It is so long ago that I forget exactly how it all came together.

 

The necessary 800k Baht for each will remain in our Thai Account - in fact more than that - so when we manage to get back it will be well aged - 8 years and counting.

My Pensions also get paid that way also at least for the moment.

 

If my Non O is expired will it be a problem Bank wise??

 

With the Re-entry Visa expired along with the Non O for both of us - how will we get back in - will it be a 30 Day Tourist Visa and then go for the 90 day extension?

 

Be grateful for any and all advice - I do not want to wreck all plans that we have built these last 8 years.

Future equal times Thai side and elsewhere starting from circa coming September time.

 

Hope to hear soonest - not really sensible to take a Flight to regularise situation with literally only a few days to go.

Rgds

Edited February 15, 2020 by factseeker

[Peter Denis]

Hi,

1. You can apply for an extension of your Non Imm O - retirement Visa 30 days before expiry of the Permission to Stay it provides.  Some IOs allow application even 45 days before expiry.  Also, due to special circumstances (e.g. not being back in-country before expiry date), your IO might be OK with extending your permission to stay even earlier.  Note: And of course you would need a Re-Entry Permit before exiting Thailand, to keep the granted Permission to Stay valid for re-entry.

2. If the above is not possible/feasible and your present permission to stay will expire while abroad, you will have to start from scratch again.

There are many options:

a) Applying for a 1-year Non Imm OA (long-stay) Visa in your home-country < this requires meeting the now mandatory health-insurance requirement, but when you already have international health-insurance coverage, would be worthwhile to consider >

b) Applying for a 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa in your home-country < not all countries still provide them, USA doesn't - UK and many European countries still do >

c) Returning to Thailand VisaExempt or on a Tourist Visa, and once in-country apply for a 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa at the local IO of the place where you want to stay, and in the last month of those 90 days apply for a 1-year extension of stay at that same local IO.

3. When opting for c) applying in-country, be aware that you need to be able to prove the foreign origins of the 800K in a thai bank-account.  When you cannot prove that anymore (you wrote that you already have them seasoned there long time), you could contact your local IO whether they would be OK with that.  Or alternatively you could apply for the 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa in a neighboring country which does not require to prove the foreign origin of the funds.  Also switching to the monthly-funds-transfer method is an option (you would not be required to prove 12 months of transfers as it is a NEW application).

 

>> I also PM-ed you a comprehensive Roadmap with all details/options to apply for or convert to a Non Imm O - retirement Visa.  To access your PM-messages just click the letter-icon next to your Profile when logged in to the Forum.

 

Success!

 

[CMBob]

OP sounds like he is in Europe so likely not able to extend as he noted.  Would note that you're allowed to extend your annual extension based on retirement in Chiangmai 45 days prior to the expiration date (should that be any help).

I'd avoid the Non-OA route simply to avoid the health insurance requirement.  Simply come in on the 30-day exemption and convert to a Non-O from there (and then later back to the annual extension based on retirement).  No sense in my view of getting a Tourist Visa in your home country (only an extra expense and hassle and you'd still have to convert to a Non-O here). 

Edited February 16, 2020 by CMBob

[Samuel Smith]

29 minutes ago, CMBob said:

 

I'd avoid the Non-OA route simply to avoid the health insurance requirement.  Simply come in on the 30-day exemption and convert to a Non-O from there (and then later back to the annual extension based on retirement).  No sense in my view of getting a Tourist Visa in your home country (only an extra expense and hassle and you'd still have to convert to a Non-O here). 

Don't you need an onward ticket if entering on visa exempt?

[Jip99]

19 minutes ago, Samuel Smith said:

Don't you need an onward ticket if entering on visa exempt?

 

 

Unlikely to be challenged but, if concerned,  just get a cancellable Booking.com hotel booking for Siem Reap for 3 weeks hence and say that you are traveling overland via Chong Chom.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Jip99

[Samuel Smith]

2 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Unlikely to be challenged but, if concerned,  just get a cancellable Booking.com hotel booking for Siem Reap for 3 weeks hence and say that you are traveling overland via Chong Chom.

Would that work at the airline check-in?

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, Samuel Smith said:

Would that work at the airline check-in?

 

 

It did for me.

 

 

The airline is not interested in a return flight ( it is a so-called Thai immigration requirement for the flight out) ...... you could be going to Bangkok, then Hanoi, then Singapore et al....

Edited February 16, 2020 by Jip99

[factseeker]

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Unlikely to be challenged but, if concerned,  just get a cancellable Booking.com hotel booking for Siem Reap for 3 weeks hence and say that you are traveling overland via Chong Chom.

Hi All,

 I did software contracting last years before retirement - lesson I learnt was do nothing ref Admin until a chat in the 'local' wherever I was with fellow contractors who had been there for some while - this Forum reminds me of that.

Grateful for all the advice.

Best Rgds.

[factseeker]

3 hours ago, CMBob said:

OP sounds like he is in Europe so likely not able to extend as he noted.  Would note that you're allowed to extend your annual extension based on retirement in Chiangmai 45 days prior to the expiration date (should that be any help).

I'd avoid the Non-OA route simply to avoid the health insurance requirement.  Simply come in on the 30-day exemption and convert to a Non-O from there (and then later back to the annual extension based on retirement).  No sense in my view of getting a Tourist Visa in your home country (only an extra expense and hassle and you'd still have to convert to a Non-O here). 

Thank you CMBob - so helpful - so far this year has been 'Hell on Wheels'' - just one of those things - but the thought of not getting back our CM 'sanctuary' to much to bear.

[factseeker]

8 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi,

1. You can apply for an extension of your Non Imm O - retirement Visa 30 days before expiry of the Permission to Stay it provides.  Some IOs allow application even 45 days before expiry.  Also, due to special circumstances (e.g. not being back in-country before expiry date), your IO might be OK with extending your permission to stay even earlier.  Note: And of course you would need a Re-Entry Permit before exiting Thailand, to keep the granted Permission to Stay valid for re-entry.

2. If the above is not possible/feasible and your present permission to stay will expire while abroad, you will have to start from scratch again.

There are many options:

a) Applying for a 1-year Non Imm OA (long-stay) Visa in your home-country < this requires meeting the now mandatory health-insurance requirement, but when you already have international health-insurance coverage, would be worthwhile to consider >

b) Applying for a 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa in your home-country < not all countries still provide them, USA doesn't - UK and many European countries still do >

c) Returning to Thailand VisaExempt or on a Tourist Visa, and once in-country apply for a 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa at the local IO of the place where you want to stay, and in the last month of those 90 days apply for a 1-year extension of stay at that same local IO.

3. When opting for c) applying in-country, be aware that you need to be able to prove the foreign origins of the 800K in a thai bank-account.  When you cannot prove that anymore (you wrote that you already have them seasoned there long time), you could contact your local IO whether they would be OK with that.  Or alternatively you could apply for the 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa in a neighboring country which does not require to prove the foreign origin of the funds.  Also switching to the monthly-funds-transfer method is an option (you would not be required to prove 12 months of transfers as it is a NEW application).

 

>> I also PM-ed you a comprehensive Roadmap with all details/options to apply for or convert to a Non Imm O - retirement Visa.  To access your PM-messages just click the letter-icon next to your Profile when logged in to the Forum.

 

Success!

 

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by factseeker
input error

[factseeker]

Hello Peter, Thank you for spending so much time on this - so helpful - so far this year has been 'Hell on Wheels'' - just one of those things - but the thought of not getting back to our CM 'sanctuary' to much to bear.

 

I think I will plump for your version c)  - that is the path I used previously - thnxs to advice from a Lady called Nancy - hope she is still well.

 

Ref Seasoning - In meantime will leave monthly pensions arriving and savings ageing furiously - should help our cause.

 

I have the proof of source of all funds from outside Thailand since inception of the Account in 2012 a just a Pension Lump Sum plus monthly still arriving.

 

My Bank Lady will also certainly confirm that.

 

Only query I would have on that is that the Bank once mentioned that having moved some of the Pension Lump Sum to an account for my wife - she has her own independent Retirement Visa - they said that it meant it was no longer sourced from outside Thailand.

 

Seemed most peculiar - surely could just be a 'loan'  or alternatively she could just give it back to me?

 

Once again my thnxs.

[Peter Denis]

2 minutes ago, factseeker said:

Only query I would have on that is that the Bank once mentioned that having moved some of the Pension Lump Sum to an account for my wife - she has her own independent Retirement Visa - they said that it meant it was no longer sourced from outside Thailand.

 

Seemed most peculiar - surely could just be a 'loan'  or alternatively she could just give it back to me?

Hi Factseeker,

Your Bank is correct.  When transferring funds from your thai bank-account to your wife's bank-account that is a DOMESTIC transfer.  And so the funds from that transfer cannot be used to demonstrate to IO that the funds originated from abroad.

In the comprehensive Roadmap I PM-ed you the various options to meet the financial requirements when applying for a new 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa are explained in detail.

 

[factseeker]

5 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi Factseeker,

Your Bank is correct.  When transferring funds from your thai bank-account to your wife's bank-account that is a DOMESTIC transfer.  And so the funds from that transfer cannot be used to demonstrate to IO that the funds originated from abroad.

In the comprehensive Roadmap I PM-ed you the various options to meet the financial requirements when applying for a new 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa are explained in detail.

 

 

[factseeker]

Thnxs will now go through the whole thing.

 

To be honest I have just found out that the Bank Uses certain codes to indicate if a trnsfr received is International.

 

Up to end 2017 ( I keep everything recorded ) - the correct Codes were applied to my monthly pension payments - I now see in my Passbooks - that since then they just denote them as a normal Transfer.

 

I can prove from UK end that is the source of each payment - where does that leave  me - in the middle of nowhere?

 

Luckily I have sufficient documentation showing an Intl source to justify more or less what is currently in the kitty - so I guess I could extract most of it - but I don't want to - just like to know possible.

 

Other point that has concerned me is the point ref IO accepting my funds are not ''over aged''.

 

Only source of funds is and always has been UK Pensions - enough comes annually to cover Retirement Kitty for at least one of us.

 

I will let you know how it all pans out.

 

Rgds.

[factseeker]

28 minutes ago, factseeker said:

 

 

6 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi Factseeker,

Your Bank is correct.  When transferring funds from your thai bank-account to your wife's bank-account that is a DOMESTIC transfer.  And so the funds from that transfer cannot be used to demonstrate to IO that the funds originated from abroad.

In the comprehensive Roadmap I PM-ed you the various options to meet the financial requirements when applying for a new 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa are explained in detail.

 

 

[Petrus]

On 2/16/2020 at 11:08 AM, Peter Denis said:

Hi,

1. You can apply for an extension of your Non Imm O - retirement Visa 30 days before expiry of the Permission to Stay it provides.  Some IOs allow application even 45 days before expiry.  Also, due to special circumstances (e.g. not being back in-country before expiry date), your IO might be OK with extending your permission to stay even earlier.  Note: And of course you would need a Re-Entry Permit before exiting Thailand, to keep the granted Permission to Stay valid for re-entry.

2. If the above is not possible/feasible and your present permission to stay will expire while abroad, you will have to start from scratch again.

There are many options:

a) Applying for a 1-year Non Imm OA (long-stay) Visa in your home-country < this requires meeting the now mandatory health-insurance requirement, but when you already have international health-insurance coverage, would be worthwhile to consider >

b) Applying for a 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa in your home-country < not all countries still provide them, USA doesn't - UK and many European countries still do >

c) Returning to Thailand VisaExempt or on a Tourist Visa, and once in-country apply for a 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa at the local IO of the place where you want to stay, and in the last month of those 90 days apply for a 1-year extension of stay at that same local IO.

3. When opting for c) applying in-country, be aware that you need to be able to prove the foreign origins of the 800K in a thai bank-account.  When you cannot prove that anymore (you wrote that you already have them seasoned there long time), you could contact your local IO whether they would be OK with that.  Or alternatively you could apply for the 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa in a neighboring country which does not require to prove the foreign origin of the funds.  Also switching to the monthly-funds-transfer method is an option (you would not be required to prove 12 months of transfers as it is a NEW application).

 

>> I also PM-ed you a comprehensive Roadmap with all details/options to apply for or convert to a Non Imm O - retirement Visa.  To access your PM-messages just click the letter-icon next to your Profile when logged in to the Forum.

 

Success!

 

Hi Peter Dennis,

I have the same problem as several other posters on this thread and would really appreciate a copy of your 'roadmap' to a new retirement visa Non imm - O

Thanks in appreciation of your sterling work for this community 

Petrus

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, Petrus said:

...

I have the same problem as several other posters on this thread and would really appreciate a copy of your 'roadmap' to a new retirement visa Non imm - O

...

Hi Petrus >>  I just did PM you the comprehensive Roadmap with all details/options to apply for or convert to a Non Imm O - retirement Visa.  To access your PM-messages just click the letter-icon next to your Profile when logged in to the Forum.

[beachbuggy]

Hi Peter Denis, could I be a nuisance and also request the roadmap please? I just renewed my OA and got stung for the health insurance even though I have good cover from Bupa Worldwide but now has to be a Thai Company. I will hopefully change to Non O whilst remaining in Thailand. Many thanks

[beachbuggy]

I am planning to do a Mae Sai border run, crossing with my OA voiding it then returning with either a VOA or the Visa exempt. Then back to CM to apply for a Non O.

Can anyone advise which one I should request if I have a choice, VOA or Visa exempt. I am from UK.

Also, my OA is valid until next Jan and I spent a fortune on Thai health insurance. Would one advise that I wait until nearer the expiry date or just get it over and done with soon. Stressful not knowing if I will get approval or not.

thanks

[CMBob]

6 hours ago, ragabob said:

I am planning to do a Mae Sai border run, crossing with my OA voiding it then returning with either a VOA or the Visa exempt. Then back to CM to apply for a Non O.

Can anyone advise which one I should request if I have a choice, VOA or Visa exempt. I am from UK.

Also, my OA is valid until next Jan and I spent a fortune on Thai health insurance. Would one advise that I wait until nearer the expiry date or just get it over and done with soon. Stressful not knowing if I will get approval or not.

If you leave without a re-entry permit, yes, you'll void your OA (or any extension thereof).

 

A VOA (visa on arrival) for Thailand applies to 19 countries....and the UK currently is not one of them (so that's not an option for you).  You could, I suppose, get a tourist visa out of Thailand and return, convert that to a Non-O here in country, and then go for an annual extension of that.  Simpler and cheaper would be to just come back and get the 30-day visa exempt and proceed with the conversion to a Non-O, etc.  Would note that there are rules that apply to your application for your "first" annual extension here (whether based on 65k a month or the 800k bank method) and you might want to bone up on that and be prepared to comply.  Other posts/threads might help you with that issue.

 

Just my opinion but why bother doing that now if you have already purchased the health insurance and your current visa (or, likely, extension) is good until next January.  I don't see any good reason not to wait (and perhaps the rules might even change between now and then that might alter what choice you make).