business electric meter issue

[bencottrell]

Hi guys

 

we have a rental property with single phase transformer and business meter

 

the meter installed by the electrical company is 15amps

our electrician has suggested that the amp of the meter is too low considering our house usage:

6 aircons, 2 fridge/freezers, 1 swimming pool pump

 

If this is the case, could this be the reason our electrical bill seems much higher than expected?

Currently around 20,000 THB per month

Aircons used at night only

pool pump used 10 hours per day

 

any advice is appreciated!

 

[lopburi3]

You say rental property but AC only used at night?  I average about 8k per month using 5 AC at night and 4 ref/freezers but no pool.  But at that amount of usage your meter must be spinning like a top and expect you do need more than 15/45 service.  

[Crossy]

Does your meter say 5/15 or 15/45?

 

An overloaded meter will lose accuracy and you can bet it won't read low.

 

What level of bill were you expecting?

 

Please post a photo of the meter.

 

[jackdd]

I don't know if this can be a reason for a too high reading, maybe you are just using so much, but considering that you seem to use about 4500kwh per month, if you break this down per hour this would mean an average use of 4500*1000/(24*30)/230 = 27amp. Considering now that you said the aircons run only at night you might be using 60amp during the night time through a meter which is specified for 15A with a max of 45A.

I would just exchange this with a 30A meter, then you are safe and you will also see if this has any effect on your bill.

[Crossy]

I'll move this to "Electrical" for directed responses.

 

[Bruce Aussie Chiang Mai]

Sounds bit high. Could be about right if you run pool pump 10 hours a day and have 6 airconds running.

My highest been 2700 when people staying, I have 4 airconds but rarely use. Guest run 1 all night.

Pool pump and water pumps be my biddest consumers.

I run pool pump 4 hours a day only.

[bencottrell]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

Does your meter say 5/15 or 15/45?

 

An overloaded meter will lose accuracy and you can bet it won't read low.

 

What level of bill were you expecting?

 

Please post a photo of the meter.

 

heres the meter attached. From my complex calculations based on appliance wattage and hours, I calculated about 3600 kwh per month. Transformer is single phase

IMG_0882.HEIC

[dimitriv]

4 hours ago, bencottrell said:

the meter installed by the electrical company is 15amps

Currently around 20,000 THB per month

 

 

How is this possible ?  Max 15 Amp. 

 

With 15 Amp you can use 3300 Watt maximum. That is 3.3 x 24 x 31 = 2455 kWh a month. At 5 Baht a unit this is 12276 Baht a month.

 

Something is wrong here. Do you pay more than 5 Baht for each kWh you use ?

[lopburi3]

7 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

 

How is this possible ?  Max 15 Amp. 

 

With 15 Amp you can use 3300 Watt maximum. That is 3.3 x 24 x 31 = 2455 kWh a month. At 5 Baht a unit this is 12276 Baht a month.

 

Something is wrong here. Do you pay more than 5 Baht for each kWh you use ?

A 15 amp meter it rated to 45 amps and can provide considerably more for periods of use.  It is not limited to providing 15 amps.

[Crossy]

8 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

A 15 amp meter it rated to 45 amps and can provide considerably more for periods of use.  It is not limited to providing 15 amps.

 

Indeed, but it appears our OP has a 5/15 meter!

 

I'm surprised it's not currently in low earth orbit.

 

 

[lopburi3]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Indeed, but it appears our OP has a 5/15 meter!

 

I'm surprised it's not currently in low earth orbit.

 

 

Oh my ...!!!  Won't even ask what main barker amperage is (or is it still fuse with emergency wires connecting)?  I had not been able to view photo as not Windows friendly.

 

Yes Yes Yes change that meter to at least 15/45 and 30 if available.  That 5/15 went out decades ago for most people (anyone with an AC)

[sometimewoodworker]

15 hours ago, bencottrell said:

heres the meter attached. From my complex calculations based on appliance wattage and hours, I calculated about 3600 kwh per month. Transformer is single phase

IMG_0882.HEIC 1.05 MB · 14 downloads

Without the transformer cost (I don’t know how much extra you pay, if anything) you are being billed for about 45000 kWh per month as has been mentioned. Your meter is certainly being used outside is accuracy range which will probably mean that you are using less power than the meter is registering as Crossy said.

 

Knowing which tariff you are being billed under would make clear how much the PEA/MEA thinks you are using the first picture is for the normal  1.2 tariff 4500kWh (business tariffs seem lower)

 

the second is if you are still on the Type 8 : Temporary Tariff 2800kWh per month.

 

 

 

 

 
 

[natway09]

If you are running 6 aircons at night you are getting more than 15 amps.

Do you mean the house has it's own transformer ? If so what capacity in KVA ?

[sometimewoodworker]

15 minutes ago, natway09 said:

If you are running 6 aircons at night you are getting more than 15 amps.

Do you mean the house has it's own transformer ? If so what capacity in KVA ?

It’s almost irrelevant if the power is going over 15 amps apart from the accuracy of the meter. The meter will happily pass 50% over the maximum rating, probably much more, but is likely to be inaccurate.
 

Why is the transformer capacity of interest?
 

Certainly the OP should have a bigger meter, but so far the actual usage is unknown, just how much is being paid. Minimum is a 15/45 meter and that is probably the correct size.

 

However unless the Pool pump humongous or the rate is still the temporary tariff then Something is rotten in the state of Denmark 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[shaemus]

On 2/16/2020 at 3:13 PM, bencottrell said:

Hi guys

 

we have a rental property with single phase transformer and business meter

 

the meter installed by the electrical company is 15amps

our electrician has suggested that the amp of the meter is too low considering our house usage:

6 aircons, 2 fridge/freezers, 1 swimming pool pump

 

If this is the case, could this be the reason our electrical bill seems much higher than expected?

Currently around 20,000 THB per month

Aircons used at night only

pool pump used 10 hours per day

 

any advice is appreciated

Hi mate. 

 

I am going to attemp to clarrfiy this for as i read some bizzare comments above. 

 

Your meter is calibrated to run at certain  rpm 15Amps. Running more Amps through it will potentially make it turn faster or slower ( as @Crossy@Crossy said probably faster. Which. Means a larger record of Kwh consumption on the dial.

 

I am sure you have worked out that your daily average is Massive (150Kwh). If i were you i would be turning everything of in your house or unplugging the items, leave the circuit breakers alone and go and have a look at your meter. If you have successfully stopped using the the power your meter will not be moving at all. If it is then you need to investigate other avenues. 

 

There are power monitoring meters available that you can clamp around your mains and it will Bluetooth a signal to your phone/app and you can wander around switching things on and off and instantly see your usage. 

 

I have an old fridge freezer that i was using at my farm. It cost me quite alot just to keep it on. 

 

So by ruling out if your neighbour is stealing power and understanding by investigating your load, you will be very well placed to add that to a new meter with a higher Amp calibration to reducing your bill. 

 

It could just be that the meter is faulty. You could do a calculation by boiling the kettle and recording the  Kwh used and then working out the time it took and how much power it should have used. But rule out the above first. 

 

Best of luck

 

Shaemus 

[lopburi3]

11 minutes ago, shaemus said:

Your meter is calibrated to run at certain  rpm 15Amps.

He only has a 5 amp meter of the kind used for huts with single rice cooker upcountry decades ago.  There is no question he needs a larger meter/service for his property with 4 ac and pool.  

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, shaemus said:

I am sure you have worked out that your daily average is Massive (150Kwh). If i were you i would be turning everything of in your house or unplugging the items, leave the circuit breakers alone and go and have a look at your meter. If you have successfully stopped using the the power your meter will not be moving at all. If it is then you need to investigate other avenues. 

If on a normal tariff and there is no extra charge for the transformer that’s spot on. Though it could be the temporary supply which would  drop it down to about 90kWh per day, but even so it seems much too high, probably at least 5X more than it should be. 
 

Power theft or incomplete information seems most likely.

 

posting a copy of the bill with personal information redacted may help.

[Crossy]

A very quick and dirty calculation:-

 

6 x A/C - let's assume 12,000 BTU and 30% duty cycle, 12 hours per night.

Each A/C will use about 1200W when the compressor is running, so about 0.4 units per hour = 0.4 x 12 = 4.8 units per night per A/C  =  28.8 units per night or 864 per month.

At 4 Baht per unit that's 3,500 Baht per month.

If the users set arctic conditions (100% duty cycle) bump that to 3,456 units / 13,000 Baht.

 

Pool pump - say 1HP - about 750W - 7.5 units per 10 hour day, 225 per month = 900 Baht per month at 4 Baht per unit.

 

So that's 1,089 units per month (about 4,400 Baht).

Even with arctic A/C that's 3,700 units per month (14,800 Baht) - nearer the OPs calculations.

 

Definitely something awry.

• With all the A/C running the load would be about 32A! So the meter reading high is a possibility.
• The meter is actually faulty.
• Power is being syphoned off somewhere.
• The OP has a load he's neglected.

 

If the OP is still on a construction tariff @ 8 Baht a unit that would make a difference.

 

Whatever happens our OP needs a new meter 15/45 minimum.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

If the OP is still on a construction tariff @ 8 Baht a unit that would make a difference.

The construction tariff (assuming it’s Type 8 ) would be about right for 2800 units to give the quoted billing. Though as you point out even that usage is far more than would be expected for the load given.

 

Until @bencottrell comes back with more information it’s difficult to know which of the possible answers are more correct.

[Max Brok]

If one is not looking to the costs of it but only the electrical system load I wonder the aircons are running. If I use a watercooker in the house of my sister in law the lights go already down, she has also a 5/15 meter. When I measure the voltage before and after switching on it goes from 230 V to 195 V. Is the main fuse to high capacity or bypassed or are the wires hot?

[lopburi3]

4 minutes ago, Max Brok said:

If one is not looking to the costs of it but only the electrical system load I wonder the aircons are running. If I use a watercooker in the house of my sister in law the lights go already down, she has also a 5/15 meter. When I measure the voltage before and after switching on it goes from 230 V to 195 V. Is the main fuse to high capacity or bypassed or are the wires hot?

If home has AC the meter and feed lines should likely be replaced with 15/45 meter/wires (if transformer allows).