Depressed

[millwall_fan]

My fiance has just been refused a UK visitor visa. The reasons given were the disparity in our ages (I am 44, my fiance is 30), my low income (well I'm a teacher so if I'm underpaid, thats the fault of the same British government thats rejected my visa. Hmmmm!) and the fact that my fiance does not own land or a car or other material possessions. So we're only allowed to fall in love with rich Thais.

I'm feeling very bitter and angry about this rejection as you can imagine. Has anyone had any similar experiences? Any ideas as to what to do next? Is there an appeals procedure? any advice would cheer me up no end.

[john b good]

I cannot really offer too much in the way of advice (I am not a brit) but I can certainly commiserate with you.

I think that it's true though that the Brits (at the British embassy are a bunch of absolute bast*rds.

I have found in the past (Oz embassy) that perhaps you could do worse than to demand to speak / see an actual British staff member at the embassy.

Many of the Thai staffers at the embassy's in Bangkok seem to resent the very fact that another Thai has found an opportunity to get out of this 3rd world country and visit a "first world country" The Thai staffers (mostly female) are likely to impose their own rules which are theirs and not actually embassy policy.

I had the experience where a Thai girl I was supporting in her application to visit me in Australia, and the Thai staff at the Australian embassy in Bangkok gave her one he*l of a run around. (All the paper work was in place)

I phoned the embassy and demanded to speak to an AUSTRALIAN. The response was what for and why. I repeated my demands and eventually got to speak to an Aussie. (and I wasn't an Australian citizen either)

I explained the situation to him and my girl had her visa within two days.

She thoroughly enjoyed her visit, saw kangaroos, got to hold a koala etc., and duly returned to Thailand to continue her "masters"

Keep trying and don't be put off by some Thai peon at the front desk.

[Dutchy]

My fiance has just been refused a UK visitor visa. The reasons given were the disparity in our ages (I am 44, my fiance is 30), my low income (well I'm a teacher so if I'm underpaid, thats the fault of the same British government thats rejected my visa. Hmmmm!) and the fact that my fiance does not own land or a car or other material possessions. So we're only allowed to fall in love with rich Thais.

I'm feeling very bitter and angry about this rejection as you can imagine. Has anyone had any similar experiences? Any ideas as to what to do next? Is there an appeals procedure? any advice would cheer me up no end.

Well... it happens a lot. I know several couples that have hired a lawyer. Some cases are even worse than your case, imagine being married and not being allowed to bring your wife back home...

Another nice story, a Thai lady got a 3-months visa for the Netherlands, she flew to Paris and how she got to the Netherlands I don't know. She left nine months later from Amsterdam, about 6 months overstay. She had the courage to ask for another visa which the embassy rightfully refused...

You could try to hire a lawyer, on the other hand, the embassy wonders why a teacher has a fiance without any material possessions.. That's a bit odd, isn't it? If you're from the same level, she must have a good job in Thailand too..

Good luck!

Dutchy

[maerim]

millwall_fan

Perhaps the above name might have had something to do with it.

On the other hand you might like to point out to these people in Soi Wittayu that they are civil servants paid by your taxes.

Tell them that you don't take lip from uncivil servants in the U.K. and you are not travelling 7,000 miles or so to take it here.

Ask to see the boss he is an English guy and ask why she was refused, they really are a law unto themselves in there.

I know we complain about Thai immigration but they are just the same, but better paid.

[lopburi3]

I am no expert on UK visas but if she were a fiancée should she not have applied for a settlement visa rather than visitors visa? From my reading of the Embassy web site I find this along with the link to settlement visa applications:

How do I qualify to join my fiancé or fiancée in the UK?

You must show that:

you plan to marry within a reasonable time (usually six months)

you plan to live together permanently after you are married

you have met each other

there is somewhere for you and any dependants to live until you get married without help from public funds

you and any dependants can be supported without working or having recourse to public funds

You will be allowed to stay in the UK for 6 months with no permission to work. When you are married you may apply for a two-year extension as a spouse and, if the application is granted, you will be allowed to work. Near the end of this time you may apply to stay in the UK permanently.

[peejay]

To Millwall Fan

Try this www.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind theirs

some good info in this hope you are lucky

peejay

[Mocksy]

Quick question

were you present for the application ?

[BIG SPUDS]

shit!!!!

Dont look good for me and you Mocksy, does it!!!!!

[chonabot]

Unfortunately the Tourist/Visitor visa cannot be appealed. You can re-apply later , or apply for a fiancee visa. It is a waste of time making an application if you are not aware of the things needed for a successful visa application.

Have a look at the website Thai-uk

They deal exclusively in visa issues to the UK.

[ghengis]

My fiancée has just been refused a UK Visitor Visa.

I was in a similar situation. I was about to apply for a Visitor Visa for my fiancée, but on reflection I though that it sounded wrong - because if you intend to marry, your future wife will want to stay permanently in the UK. I think that if the UK Embassy discovers she is your fiancée then you can kiss goodbye to a Visitor Visa. So we applied and got a Fiancée Settlement Visa.

A Settlement Visa is much easier to get. No worries about having land etc in Thailand. A Fiancée Settlement Visa gives you 6 months before you must be married. You have a couple of months dither time before everything for the marriage must be arranged, and if things don't work out your wife will have to return to Thailand if you don't support her FLR and ILR visas after she has arrived in the UK. So you have up to 2½ years grace before she can stay in the UK permanently. If she has to return to Thailand, then getting a subsequent divorce would be a lot cheaper than in the UK. So you have some (if slight) insurance if things do go pear-shaped.

If a Fiancée Visa fails, then get married in Thailand and apply for a Marriage Settlement Visa.

[rainman]

Appeal on basis of human rights if it really matters to you and if you think its worth it. I can't give you more information that that, as it varies from country to country, but you should contact a lawyer for more information on it. Thats all i can help you with.

[chonabot]

As mentioned before , the Tourist visa is non-appealable , if a fiancee/settlement visa ( they are one and the same) is refused, you can appeal in th UK .

The Immigration Advisory Service , based in Wellsey Rd in Lovely Croydon , will appeal on your behalf , the service is free , they have a very high success rate , process takes about 6-12 months.

[chonabot]

If a Fiancée Visa fails, then get married in Thailand and apply for a Marriage Settlement Visa.

Misinformation , they are one and the same.

[ghengis]

Fiancée and Marriage Visas are not the same. However, they are both called Settlement Visas and have the same forms to fill in for the UK Embassy.

If you are already married in Thailand then your Marriage Settlement Visa is for 24 months. After this time, you apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) in the UK. You can work on a Marriage Visa from Day 1 in the UK.

A Fiancée Visa is only for 6 months. You are not allowed to work in the UK during this time. After 6 months (and being married) you apply for Further Leave to Remain (FLR), which lasts for 24 months (Like a Marriage Visa). You can then work in the UK. 24 months after the FLR you can apply for ILR.

If you are married in Thailand then it is a lot easier to prove that you have a genuine relationship than if you are only engaged to be married. I have several friends here in the UK who got married in Thailand after they failed to get Fiancée Visas and successfully got Marriage Visas. If you get married then you can re-apply and don't have to appeal the Fiancée Visa.

It takes 2 years to get ILR on a Marriage Visa and 2.5 years to get ILR on a Fiancée Visa. The Marriage Visa avoids to need to get FLR (which costs 155 pounds by post or 250 if you go in person).

[chonabot]

Fair play , you know your Visa stuff Mr Khan!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

My fiance has just been refused a UK visitor visa. The reasons given were the disparity in our ages (I am 44, my fiance is 30), my low income (well I'm a teacher so if I'm underpaid, thats the fault of the same British government thats rejected my visa. Hmmmm!) and the fact that my fiance does not own land or a car or other material possessions. So we're only allowed to fall in love with rich Thais.

  I'm feeling very bitter and angry about this rejection as you can imagine. Has anyone had any similar experiences? Any ideas as to what to do next? Is there an appeals procedure? any advice would cheer me up no end.

The disparity in ages is not unreasonable at all 44 / 30 Presumably they had doubts that you might be unable to support her. Another essential ingredient for visa success is how long you have known her. You didn't say.

[Richard W]

My fiance has just been refused a UK visitor visa. The reasons given were ...  my low income (well I'm a teacher so if I'm underpaid, thats the fault of the same British government thats rejected my visa. Hmmmm!) ...

Presumably they had doubts that you might be unable to support her.

It falls under the general advice of the Immigration Advisory Service that girlfriends don't get visas. (Sometimes thay do.) Many people regard the common pattern of applying for a visitor's visa and then getting a fiancée visa as a racket. It would save a lot of grief if there were advice that poor applicants don't usually get visitor's visas, and certainly not poor girlfriends.

Have you read the notice of refusal? Many applicants don't understood the ostensible reason for refusal. (I have seen a claim that they don't always explain it, but ask for written confirmation that it has been explained nevertheless.) It's worrying that your income is considered insufficient. Perhaps you were considered too poor to put her up in a hotel for a few months! Are there jobs in your area that your beloved could do to boost your joint income when she becomes your wife?

[Pink Mist]

Disparity in ages, <deleted>, disparity in case workers discretion, that's the reason.

My soapdodger mate got a 3 month visa for his GF last year, him 60, she 26 and he knows another Falang and GF similar situation did it the year before.

There is no consistency in their decisions, perhaps build a database with peoples details, the visa decisions and reasons for refusals could be gathered. After we have a reasonable amount of info, it could be used to put pressure on the Embassies.

Actually if we started one and made it accessable to all visitors, I'm sure the details would filter back

[ponder]

I know nothing about how visa applications are really dealt with. However, a male friend of mine in Bangkok is about to apply for a visa to visit me in Ireland. If he does not get the visa, I will be going straight to my local TD (Member of Parliament, in English terms) to tell him to do something about it.

Why not try that?

[possom]

bronco havnt heard the term soap dodger for years !! gave me a chuckle , as a good mate of mine is aussie ,(i am english ) havnt seen him for years !! thanks for happy memories

[bangkokblue]

Forget all the <deleted> of refusal, appeal, etc, etc, Just slap in the next application and tell them the 3rd is in waiting.

[stroll]

"Forget all the <deleted> of refusal, appeal, etc, etc, Just slap in the next application and tell them the 3rd is in waiting."

This is a waste of time and money. Once the application has been refused, they advise you not to apply again until circumstances have changed substancially, i.e. you have been together for another three years, she suddenly inherits a lot or has held a wellpaid job for a couple of years, or you plan to marry.

You cannot appeal (visitor visa), but you could of course waste more of your time demanding an explanation form somebody further up about the ridiculous reasons given for refusal. I made the mistake of doing this in writing, and 2 months later received a photocopied letter stating how much they regret my feelings of disappointment but the decision is not appealable.

So no good news from me, I am afraid.

Probably the best is to play the marriage card and apply for a different visa as others suggested already.

[bangkokblue]

Stroll, Like i said forget what you also agree 'is a waste of time' with one exception, repeat application but after 6 months, someone was having a bad day to suggest 3 years. By all means go down the fiance route it's just another application too which the first will be refered. As for being a waste of time and money now that does'nt say much about a relationship does it, just refusal material. Whatever, the general census of opinion on this forum is tell the truth so what's it to be.

[drlawrence]

It may cheer you up to know that, all over the world, people who work at British Embassies are complete <deleted>. It's one of the very few drawbacks of being a Brit oerseas.

[ponder]

I wish I could understand what the big deal is about giving somebody a holiday visa. What do the authorities think is going to happen? I am going to create some stink over here (Ireland) if my friend's application for a holiday visa is refused.

What an insult to a person to say they cannot come to our great countries because they do not have a good reason to return to their own!

[millwall_fan]

Thanks to everyone who has taken the trouble to reply to my post (except No. 3 whose prejudices about the implications of me being a millwall supporter are on a par with the prejudices of UK visa officers 'nuff said)

I'm going with the advice of Bangkok Blue. The second application is on its way having addressed all the issues raised. The 3rd one wont be far behind it if necessary.

Since I wrote my post, I have seen the letter of rejection. The primary reason for refusal of application was that my fiance could not remember the date I entered the Kingdom last December when we met. This apparantly was evidence of a 'lack of candour' on her part. Also she could not give a blow by blow account of what she wanted to see whilst in the UK. This is disingenuous of the visa officer who must have realised (unless she is a compete halfwit) that a) as her sponsor and as my guest I would organise her itinerary and that gawping at Buck house or Tower Bridge is not the primary reason for visiting but to see where I live etc (and funnily enough, New Cross is not big on tourist attractions).

I dont want to apply for a settlement or fiance visa yet as the date of our marriage will be decided by us, not to suit the whims of HM government.

Once again, thanks to everyone for replying. I feel a lot better knowing that we are not alone in having problems with The British Embassy in Bangkok.

Cheers. GARY.

[eric1000]

My fiance has just been refused a UK visitor visa. The reasons given were the disparity in our ages (I am 44, my fiance is 30), my low income (well I'm a teacher so if I'm underpaid, thats the fault of the same British government thats rejected my visa. Hmmmm!) and the fact that my fiance does not own land or a car or other material possessions. So we're only allowed to fall in love with rich Thais.

I'm feeling very bitter and angry about this rejection as you can imagine. Has anyone had any similar experiences? Any ideas as to what to do next? Is there an appeals procedure? any advice would cheer me up no end.

well you are one of many ..its a common story .some guys go apeshit in the embassy and get physically thrown out by the guards onto the street !

only a small age gap ? 30 years is not uncommon , a thai gal i know who is spliting with her hubby is 30 years younger than he is .

trying to work out whats going on down there can drive you crazy , they are totally inconsistent , and unpredictable !

if they decide to refuse you they can cook up all sorts of reasons to fob you off .

so what they tell you can be total garbage ..

i know a guy who made a dozen applications and spent over 12,000 pounds before got a visa for his wife .

all you can do is access your position and keep making applications , but it could be expensive in the long run , or maybe you might have to move there and stay long term.

surprised that a civil servant was rejected ....

[eric1000]

Disparity in ages, <deleted>, disparity in case workers discretion, that's the reason.

My soapdodger mate got a 3 month visa for his GF last year, him 60, she 26 and he knows another Falang and GF similar situation did it the year before.

There is no consistency in their decisions, perhaps build a database with peoples details, the visa decisions and reasons for refusals could be gathered. After we have a reasonable amount of info, it could be used to put pressure on the Embassies.

Actually if we started one and made it accessable to all visitors, I'm sure the details would filter back

they wouldnt be bothered about any such thing , as long as i can remember the letters page of the Bangkok Post , (around 20 years) has had scathing and bitter complaints about the sh1tbags at the British Embassy ! and the ambassador as well !

Many years ago there was a BBC1 documentary about the BBK UK Embassy visa dept ,showing interviews and applicants going thru the process ,.to show how crazy they are

a brit guy in his 30s applied for his 16 year old thai gal !

Upon interviewing by the officer it turned out she lied about her age and was 15 years old !!!!

THEY ACTUALLY GAVE HER A VISA TO GO TO THE UK WITH THIS GUY ! IT WAS ON SCREEN FOR ALL THE UK PUBLIC TO SEE !!

A GUY IN HIS 30S GOT A VISA FOR A 15 YEAR OLD THAI GAL !!

YOU FIGURE OUT WHATS GOING ON DOWN THERE !!

you cant ..

[Erawan]

That seems a bit odd, the part where someone mentioned that if you failed a fiance visa, you could get married and apply successfully for a marriage visa?! Surely they'd view that as merely another attempt to bring your partner over and deny it?

Ok, so what happens if you got married in Thailand, applied for a marriage visa and it got turned down? I'm going with the 'unable to set up residence with your partner because of work commitments in the UK' card here. I think you're pretty much screwed, am I right? You can appeal... but from I've read here, it doesn't sound too hopeful.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

bronco havnt heard the term soap dodger for years !! gave me a chuckle , as a good mate of mine is aussie ,(i am english ) havnt seen him for years !! thanks for happy memories

You haven't been reading enough posts here on Thai Visa Possum, the term is very common hereabouts. A bit of stirring between the antipodeans and the poms, as per usual