UK coronavirus death rate to stay high top medic says, as toll passes 4,300

[Krataiboy]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Conversely, observing the government embarking on Johnson’s callous herd immunity experiment, his U-turn in the face of criticism from a whole bunch of health experts and the undeniable fact that his failed experiment has resulted in the virus spreading unhindered in the population.

 

Yeh, I know you just can’t please everyone.

We get it, honestly Chomps. You're no fan of Boris Johnson. Now how about giving it a rest.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Krataiboy said:

We get it, honestly Chomps. You're no fan of Boris Johnson. Now how about giving it a rest.

Forgive me for expressing my on topic views in this discussion forum.

[Forethat]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

1.Herd immunity:

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1255476/UK-coronavirus-U-turn-herd-immunity-Matt-Hancock-Boris-Johnson-Government

 

2: I can’t provide a link to a number the government has not published.

 

 

So you don't have a link to support your claim that "Johnson’s callous herd immunity experiment has failed"?

 

OK.

 

[daveAustin]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Johnson tried this, it failed.

How do you know this when it was only put in place a few weeks ago? Numbers are high in UK because people were already infected so it wouldn't have made a difference... London esp, being a major multinational transit point which is why, along with NYC, they've been hit so hard. If the measures to lock the old away were put in place immediately (when China let the cat out of the bag) to wait out a vaccine, death rates would surely be much lower. But which western gov' would see that scenario?

I just don't get people on their high horse over government action/inaction on this. Better off focusing your ire on the place that caused all this.

Edited April 5, 2020 by daveAustin

[Chomper Higgot]

36 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Yes, I do have links.

 

https://www.lastampa.it/topnews/primo-piano/2020/04/02/news/coronavirus-castiglione-d-adda-e-un-caso-di-studio-il-70-dei-donatori-di-sangue-e-positivo-1.38666481

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1375

 

https://rep.repubblica.it/pwa/locali/2020/04/03/news/milano_la_ricerca_dell_universita_statale_i_contagi_reali_in_italia_potrebbero_essere_5_milioni_-253027121/

Wrt the Italian language links: 

 

We know people may be infected but asymptomatic for 14 days or longer, the reports provide no clarification:

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200310/some-could-show-covid-19-symptoms-after-quarantine

 

wrt to the BMJ summary article, It’s not at all unreasonable to doubt data coming out of China. That aside, In recommend you click on the comments link to the BMJ summary article and read the response entitled

 

‘Where do pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic cases come from in China? Errors in Covid-19: four fifths of cases are asymptomatic, China figures indicate’

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, Forethat said:

So you don't have a link to support your claim that "Johnson’s callous herd immunity experiment has failed"?

 

OK.

 

If hadn’t failed he wouldn’t have done a U-turn.

 

OK.

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

How do you know this when it was only put in place a few weeks ago? Numbers are high in UK because people were already infected so it wouldn't have made a difference... London esp, being a major multinational transit point which is why, along with NYC, they've been hit so hard. If the measures to lock the old away were put in place immediately (when China let the cat out of the bag) to wait out a vaccine, death rates would surely be much lower. But which western gov' would see that scenario?

I just don't get people on their high horse over government action/inaction on this. Better off focusing your ire on the place that caused all this.

The causes of the virus are in the past, the ongoing response of government’s are in the present and have consequences.

 

All of a sudden holding government’s to account for their actions/inaction is troublesome. 

 

Nah.

[from the home of CC]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You and your family first then - for the greater good and all that.

 

 

 

The sacrifices I'm referring to is not lives, it's living the isolation protocol (that seems so hard for some) - in spite of the consequences of economic unraveling, it appears the only way to reduce deaths. I guess the government has to ask itself (which is supposed to be the view of it's people), how much is a human life worth? I guess the worth would be graded lower as age rose so if they would get a bigger bang for their buck if a viral cull was allowed that affected those mostly over 50 (lots of underlying conditions). Those who think the economy is more precious than life most likely were counting on this to occur. Sounds to me saner minds prevailed..

Edited April 5, 2020 by from the home of CC

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If hadn’t failed he wouldn’t have done a U-turn.

 

OK.

It hasn't failed because the herd immunity policy was never followed through to the end. The UK is now following a "suppression" policy based on social distancing.

 

After a few days of Daily Mail criticism along the lines of "Oh my God, are you going to let 200,000 Britons die?" Boris Johnson caved in, gave up the herd immunity approach and instead opted for "suppression".

 

Note the UK is not now following a herd immunity policy, it hasn't done so for weeks, and herd immunity was never followed through. Ergo, the herd immunity approach has never failed, it was just cancelled and abandoned.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Logosone

[gunderhill]

1400    people a  day NORMALLY  die  in the UK with  no virus.

[gunderhill]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The causes of the virus are in the past

Which has a  nasty habit  of  repeating itself.

[sungod]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Forgive me for expressing my on topic views in this discussion forum.

How many times do you think you can use the word 'callous' in a topic?

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, puipuitom said:

NONSENSE: That's why Dutch are in Belgium and German hospitals , French are in Belgium + German hospitals, medical utilities are shared, and French planes take also Belgium + Dutch tourists back, German planes the same.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/uk-discussed-joint-eu-plan-to-buy-covid-19-medical-supplies-say-officials and https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/articles/news/eu-create-strategic-stockpile-medical-equipment-fight-against-coronavirus

 

Corona-bonds: "you must repair your roof when it is dry": How can I defend to the Dutch, Germans etc THEY had to go on pension at 65 and now increasing towards 67, while the French were having an over one year Yellow Vests fight against 62 going to 64, with result it stays at 62 ?

The Italian nation debt went between 2016-2019 from 134,8 % towards 136,2% of GDP, while in the same period the Dutch went from 61,9% towards 48,9% with massive austerity measurements, increase of pension age from 65 towards 66.

Already forgotten the fierce discussions betweeen Mr "Selfini" c.s. and the EU about the Italian budget 2019 ? Then it was "the f.ck to the EU rules for increase of State Debt and budget shortage % of GDP". ( as it was already for decades ) 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/italy-budget-crisis-brexit-eu-economics-public-services-giuseppe-conte-matteo-salvini-a8597466.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45954022

https://www.politico.eu/article/italy-budget-europe-brussels-fight-italians/

 

The state ( public) debt in the Olive-oil countries is high, but the private very low ( see mortgages). These are in NL and especially Germany quite high. Also the "informal" economy in the south is substantial. Time to tax that and when still in shortage, of course the Germanic countries will help.

Of course the Germanic countries will help ........... once they have been shamed enough.

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Of course the Germanic countries will help ........... once they have been shamed enough.

The Germanic countries are already helping:

 

Hundreds of NHS workers' coronavirus swabs have reportedly been flown to Germany because the results are coming back in half the time.

Samples passed to Public Health England are believed to be taking up to four days to process but those on the Continent can come back in just two.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8182663/NHS-trusts-sending-swabs-Germany-coronavirus-checks-results-quicker.html

 

But there is no way in hell we'll allow Coronabonds.

 

None.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, sungod said:

How many times do you think you can use the word 'callous' in a topic?

Forgive me for using the English language when making comments in compliance with forum rules.

 

 

[kingdong]

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

 

If you don’t get close to an infected person you can’t catch the virus off them.

 

 

• And how long do.as the virus live on a hard surface for?

[BKKBike09]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Wrt the Italian language links: 

 

We know people may be infected but asymptomatic for 14 days or longer, the reports provide no clarification:

 

The report on blood donors in Castiglione d’Adda says that out of 60 people tested, 40 tested positive and were not just asymptomatic, but had antibodies, suggesting previous infection, and giving rise to discussion that their plasma could be used for treatment of others. Castiglione d'Adda is interesting because that is where, around 21 Feb, the first locally-transmitted case was identified in Italy. So it was ground zero in some respects.

 

[Logosone]

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Your constant claims wrt to social distancing are debunked by a rather simple logical argument:  

 

If you don’t get close to an infected person you can’t catch the virus off them.

 

 

No, but as soon as you step out the door again you will get the virus.

 

That's why social distancing does not work. In the end it has to be a temporary measure.

 

So those who have no immunity will have to step outside the door.

 

Where a very large number of asymptomatic carriers await.

 

 

[Krataiboy]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Forgive me for expressing my on topic views in this discussion forum.

Blimey! It must be past my bedtime. For a moment there, Chomps, I could have sworn you had written "Forgive me for expressing myopic views. . . "!

 

'Night.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Krataiboy

[TheDark]

UK Queen just spoke out. Only the 3rd time in modern history.

 

Boris is now officially a toast bread.

[TheDark]

Now UK PM has been hospitalised.

 

Who is now running the UK?  The Queen took effective the reign back to her self with her speech. But is she the leader of the country now? 

Edited April 5, 2020 by TheDark

[Forethat]

1 hour ago, TheDark said:

UK Queen just spoke out. Only the 3rd time in modern history.

 

Boris is now officially a toast bread.

5th time.

[Forethat]

5 minutes ago, TheDark said:

Now UK PM has been hospitalised.

According to official sources he's admitted for tests. He's not hospitalised.

 

Quote

Prime Minister Boris Johnson has been admitted to hospital for tests, 10 days after testing positive for coronavirus, Downing Street has said.

...

...

It was described as a "precautionary step" taken on the advice of his doctor.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52177125

[TheDark]

I don't bother to repeat myself.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, Logosone said:

No, but as soon as you step out the door again you will get the virus.

 

That's why social distancing does not work. In the end it has to be a temporary measure.

 

So those who have no immunity will have to step outside the door.

 

Where a very large number of asymptomatic carriers await.

 

 

Hyperbole.

 

Nobody gets the virus by simply ‘going outside’. 

 

‘Social Distancing’ is not simply staying in doors.

 

 

[sungod]

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Forgive me for using the English language when making comments in compliance with forum rules.

 

 

You are forgiven, I just looked at the forum rules and couldn't find anything against being boring and repetitive, crack on!

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, sungod said:

You are forgiven, I just looked at the forum rules and couldn't find anything against being boring and repetitive, crack on!

 

 

Do you have anything to add to the topic of discussion?

[sungod]

27 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Do you have anything to add to the topic of discussion?

So far all I can work out from your posts is that you dont like Boris and herd immunity is callous,

 

Looking forward to your next contribution where you dont try and politicize a pandemic. 

 

 

[Forethat]

On 4/5/2020 at 7:18 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

 

If you don’t get close to an infected person you can’t catch the virus off them.

 

 

Surely your comment above is an unfortunate error? You don't really mean this, do you? 

[bristolboy]

17 hours ago, Logosone said:

No, but as soon as you step out the door again you will get the virus.

 

That's why social distancing does not work. In the end it has to be a temporary measure.

 

So those who have no immunity will have to step outside the door.

 

Where a very large number of asymptomatic carriers await.

 

 

Yes. It's a temporary measure. But it does help lessen the overload on hospitals while treatments are subjected to tests. With some luck, once effective therapies have been established, and then social distancing can be scaled back.