Thai Girls Slitting Their Wrists

[oooooo]

this is a very delicate topic indeed. but what needs to be realized first is that these girls do not slash their wrists in order to commit suicide.

it is a form of self humiliation that often stems from causes such as:

losing money

losing a partner

business failure

mental depression

relationship problems

drug use

death in the family

and so forth and so on. primarily it is just a cleansing ritual of blood letting and not a serious attempt at suicide. but it is perfectly normal to claim temporary insanity for committing acts like this here in thailand.

it also seems to be a practice generally associated with ppl from the northeast. i ve yet to see a bkk thai with such marks.

anyways, happy songkran to all

dont slash ur wrists, be happy

Edited April 11, 2007 by oooooo

[Heng]

Bendix lives in the most cleansed and sterile environment of any expat in Thailand. He is happy about all recent visa and other developments here.

Sounds almost criminal to not know suicidal locals. Come on, Bendix... you have to be dissappointed and bitter about something.

[AmeriThai]

Self mutilation by cutting isn't limited to girls in Thailand. As others have said, there are girls in other countries that do it as well. And it isn't limited to bar girls, drug users or the poor. There are those from the middle class and the affluent who do it.

It seems to be a psychological disorder. Sometimes, it might be out of boredom. Sometimes, it might be due to depression and stress. In some cases, maybe most, for one reason or another, it may be a way of self punishment and feeling useless or hopeless. I'd say it's a way of crying out for attention. Some people may have a self image problem and feel unwanted or unattractive, so they resort to slashing. But there are very attractive people who do it because they have a poor sense of self esteem.

It seems that some cutters simply don't know how to resolve personal problems, usually emotional. So they resort to self slashing. What they need to do is understand their problems as a challenge to better themselves rather than to attempt self harm. I'd guess the vast majority don't do it because they want to die. Just the opposite - they want to live - just like everyone else. But they find it hard to express or resolve matters in a positive way. Regardless, if and when it reaches a point of frequent self mutilation, then they really need to get some psychological counseling or helpful information to help them overcome their problem.

Someone mentioned earlier that it seems to be a way of getting drugs into the system faster. That's nonsense. If the cut is scratched deep enough to bleed, the blood is coming out to the surface which means most of any drugs applied would not be going in.

[terry57]

i can be a fairly hard core punter at times, as ive seen things in my job that are not to pleasant.

but i must say that this topic makes my skin crawl because girls dont just do this self mutilation for laughs.

there's real pain and angst there, and they must suffer tremendously to even think about cutting themselves up with a knife.

anyway,

this thread makes me feel sick and i wish the mods would give it the flick as there aint nothing to discuss is there?, and unless you have sunk that low you would never know the answer.

luckily i have'nt, and dont know the answer either.

[meemiathai]

It seems to be a psychological disorder.

I think it is controversial to say it is a disorder. Unless one would say that to feel hungry is a disorder. To have an urge to come up to TV is a disorder. To want to smoke or to have beer is a disorder. It is just one of the charateristics of a human being or animal maybe.

It is too common a thing to say that it is a disorder, in my opinion. I have done it myself in my younger days.

Just my thought.

[GuestHouse]

I seldom agree with anything Terry has to say, but I agree whole heartedly with this.

there's real pain and angst there, and they must suffer tremendously to even think about cutting themselves up with a knife.

I hope the Mods don't close the thread because awareness about this issue is useful.

[Mid]

I seldom agree with anything Terry has to say, but I agree whole heartedly with this.

there's real pain and angst there, and they must suffer tremendously to even think about cutting themselves up with a knife.

I hope the Mods don't close the thread because awareness about this issue is useful.

Word

two for the price of one , gotta like bargins

[kmart]

Here is a link from a UK site regarding cutting or self-mutilation.

Self Harm Survey

I've seen a lot of local BG's with these types of scars. They seem to be adolescent self-injuries done while still teenagers.

Having reviewed this topic, I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the fools (in my opinion) that go in for the extreme "body-modification" crap in the West? "Scarification" and extreme piercing / tattooing, etc? Is that done by people with low self-opinion / mental problems?

[smartecosse]

Bendix lives in the most cleansed and sterile environment of any expat in Thailand. He is happy about all recent visa and other developments here. He lives the perfect life and prays for the day that he can reside here alone with only other perfect beings like himself. We should all now bow down and kiss the man's feet and proclaim that we ourselves are not worthy. After that, we must all leave Thailand forever so he can live here in peace and harmony in his pristine world

self harming is not something that the females of Thailand have the monopoly in by a long way

[November Rain]

Here is a link from a UK site regarding cutting or self-mutilation.

Self Harm Survey

I've seen a lot of local BG's with these types of scars. They seem to be adolescent self-injuries done while still teenagers.

Having reviewed this topic, I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the fools (in my opinion) that go in for the extreme "body-modification" crap in the West? "Scarification" and extreme piercing / tattooing, etc? Is that done by people with low self-opinion / mental problems?

What exactly do you mean by "scarification"? Is that a term that is used often? I haven't heard it before.

And what is "extreme body modification"? In your opinion? Sorry, I'd just like to know how you define those words/phrases.

In answer to the part of your question I do understand & feel qualified to answer, I don't think people that pierce or tattoo themselves do suffer from low self esteem. In general they seem to be self confident enough not to give a stuff what society as a whole thinks of them. Self harming is very often a private thing that is hidden. Tattoos & piercings are often displayed openly.

Mental health problems? I guess, like any cross section of the population, those that self decorate can be completely sane or completely insane & any point in between.

BTW, I have 3 tattoos; 2 on my back & one around my left ankle. I have them for my own reasons, got them in my 30's and don't regret any of them. I don't consider I have any self-esteem problems & I certainly don't think I have any mental health issues.

[GuestHouse]

Well said NovemberRain.

I'm not a fan of tattoos or peircings myself, but I certainly don't see them as self harm.

Self medicating with booze is perhaps more deserving of being classed as 'self harm'.

What I also find odd is that while their is ample information in this thread that debunks the assumptions about self harm, this information from professionals working in the field is ignored and the same old assumptions are dragged out again.

[terry57]

Here is a link from a UK site regarding cutting or self-mutilation.

Self Harm Survey

I've seen a lot of local BG's with these types of scars. They seem to be adolescent self-injuries done while still teenagers.

Having reviewed this topic, I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the fools (in my opinion) that go in for the extreme "body-modification" crap in the West? "Scarification" and extreme piercing / tattooing, etc? Is that done by people with low self-opinion / mental problems?

What exactly do you mean by "scarification"? Is that a term that is used often? I haven't heard it before.

And what is "extreme body modification"? In your opinion? Sorry, I'd just like to know how you define those words/phrases.

In answer to the part of your question I do understand & feel qualified to answer, I don't think people that pierce or tattoo themselves do suffer from low self esteem. In general they seem to be self confident enough not to give a stuff what society as a whole thinks of them. Self harming is very often a private thing that is hidden. Tattoos & piercings are often displayed openly.

Mental health problems? I guess, like any cross section of the population, those that self decorate can be completely sane or completely insane & any point in between.

BTW, I have 3 tattoos; 2 on my back & one around my left ankle. I have them for my own reasons, got them in my 30's and don't regret any of them. I don't consider I have any self-esteem problems & I certainly don't think I have any mental health issues.

thats very interesting miss rain,

and you are indeed correct about people that have tatts.

if they were all nutters then half the bleeding world would be full of nutters .

as it stands now, its just under half the world is full of nutters.

anyway,

any chance of letting us know what sort of top tatts you have just to lighten this thread up for a millisecond.?

and please dont tell me one of thems a dog.

thank you very much.

[terry57]

I seldom agree with anything Terry has to say, but I agree whole heartedly with this.

there's real pain and angst there, and they must suffer tremendously to even think about cutting themselves up with a knife.

I hope the Mods don't close the thread because awareness about this issue is useful.

excuse me guesthouse,

but can you please stop sucking up to me.

thank you very much.

[kmart]

Here is a link from a UK site regarding cutting or self-mutilation.

Self Harm Survey

I've seen a lot of local BG's with these types of scars. They seem to be adolescent self-injuries done while still teenagers.

Having reviewed this topic, I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the fools (in my opinion) that go in for the extreme "body-modification" crap in the West? "Scarification" and extreme piercing / tattooing, etc? Is that done by people with low self-opinion / mental problems?

What exactly do you mean by "scarification"? Is that a term that is used often? I haven't heard it before.

And what is "extreme body modification"? In your opinion? Sorry, I'd just like to know how you define those words/phrases.

In answer to the part of your question I do understand & feel qualified to answer, I don't think people that pierce or tattoo themselves do suffer from low self esteem. In general they seem to be self confident enough not to give a stuff what society as a whole thinks of them. Self harming is very often a private thing that is hidden. Tattoos & piercings are often displayed openly.

Mental health problems? I guess, like any cross section of the population, those that self decorate can be completely sane or completely insane & any point in between.

BTW, I have 3 tattoos; 2 on my back & one around my left ankle. I have them for my own reasons, got them in my 30's and don't regret any of them. I don't consider I have any self-esteem problems & I certainly don't think I have any mental health issues.

Here you go. November Rain. This type of stuff really seems to be popular in Europe and the States right now. Everyone to their own of course, but this shit bugs me out....

[November Rain]

Here is a link from a UK site regarding cutting or self-mutilation.

Self Harm Survey

I've seen a lot of local BG's with these types of scars. They seem to be adolescent self-injuries done while still teenagers.

Having reviewed this topic, I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the fools (in my opinion) that go in for the extreme "body-modification" crap in the West? "Scarification" and extreme piercing / tattooing, etc? Is that done by people with low self-opinion / mental problems?

What exactly do you mean by "scarification"? Is that a term that is used often? I haven't heard it before.

And what is "extreme body modification"? In your opinion? Sorry, I'd just like to know how you define those words/phrases.

In answer to the part of your question I do understand & feel qualified to answer, I don't think people that pierce or tattoo themselves do suffer from low self esteem. In general they seem to be self confident enough not to give a stuff what society as a whole thinks of them. Self harming is very often a private thing that is hidden. Tattoos & piercings are often displayed openly.

Mental health problems? I guess, like any cross section of the population, those that self decorate can be completely sane or completely insane & any point in between.

BTW, I have 3 tattoos; 2 on my back & one around my left ankle. I have them for my own reasons, got them in my 30's and don't regret any of them. I don't consider I have any self-esteem problems & I certainly don't think I have any mental health issues.

thats very interesting miss rain,

and you are indeed correct about people that have tatts.

if they were all nutters then half the bleeding world would be full of nutters .

as it stands now, its just under half the world is full of nutters.

anyway,

any chance of letting us know what sort of top tatts you have just to lighten this thread up for a millisecond.?

and please dont tell me one of thems a dog.

thank you very much.

No, no dogs, I promise! Even I'm not that sad! One is 4 stars, one is 2 jin-joks with the Thai character for my BF's name, the one round my ankle is the word "forever" in English & Thai (da lodt gang) joined by a candle. That one is for my father, BF & grandfather who have all died in the last 4 years.

[steakpudding]

A few of my mates have cut their wrists before, mainly to get attention from their "loved" ones. Strangely this happens lots more amongst lesbians.

When I was at school, a girl few years lower than me cut her wrist, wrote a love letter using her blood and sent it to my friend (saying how much she loved her, that she couldn't live without her blah blah blah). What's so romantic about that

[SnakeBite]

If you have to ask #7 then you are as dumb, stupid, or ill in the head as the one doing the slitting. Maybe I should have added NAIVE to that list.

Edited April 12, 2007 by SnakeBite

[noungning]

Here is a link from a UK site regarding cutting or self-mutilation.

Self Harm Survey

I've seen a lot of local BG's with these types of scars. They seem to be adolescent self-injuries done while still teenagers.

Having reviewed this topic, I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the fools (in my opinion) that go in for the extreme "body-modification" crap in the West? "Scarification" and extreme piercing / tattooing, etc? Is that done by people with low self-opinion / mental problems?

What exactly do you mean by "scarification"? Is that a term that is used often? I haven't heard it before.

And what is "extreme body modification"? In your opinion? Sorry, I'd just like to know how you define those words/phrases.

In answer to the part of your question I do understand & feel qualified to answer, I don't think people that pierce or tattoo themselves do suffer from low self esteem. In general they seem to be self confident enough not to give a stuff what society as a whole thinks of them. Self harming is very often a private thing that is hidden. Tattoos & piercings are often displayed openly.

Mental health problems? I guess, like any cross section of the population, those that self decorate can be completely sane or completely insane & any point in between.

BTW, I have 3 tattoos; 2 on my back & one around my left ankle. I have them for my own reasons, got them in my 30's and don't regret any of them. I don't consider I have any self-esteem problems & I certainly don't think I have any mental health issues.

scarification...

but anyway, those types of things: piercings/tattoos are form of art or expressions on the human body. i don't think they do it because they have self-esteem problems or have some sort psychological disorder. additionally, i don't think that slitting their own wrist is also a form of psychological disorder, it's not a disorder, it's their way of expressing anger or a way for relieving depression or stress.

and as mentioned in another post about writing a love letter in their own blood and lesbians slitting their arms more. when i was over in thailand last year, i was staying in a household with a few of lesbians and it's true that the girl always threatened to slit her wrist, but at that time i knew it was an attention seeking event. but as for writing a love letter in blood, what i know about this is that this is showing that you really love them, you are using your blood to write, it's much more than just a pen or pencil. sacrificing their life for love, i guess it's more of a symbol more than anything. it's quite hard to explain.

[beejoir]

I've seen this a fair bit too, in guys and girls, scary.

[AmeriThai]

It seems to be a psychological disorder.

I think it is controversial to say it is a disorder. Unless one would say that to feel hungry is a disorder. To have an urge to come up to TV is a disorder. To want to smoke or to have beer is a disorder. It is just one of the charateristics of a human being or animal maybe.

It is too common a thing to say that it is a disorder, in my opinion. I have done it myself in my younger days.

Just my thought.

Does this look like a well-adjusted, healthy thing to do?

Hunger, smoking and drinking doesn’t have anything to do with cutting. There's no comparison between slashing your body and getting hungry, etc. Neither does body modification for decorative purposes, sexual gratification, etc., although that’s not my idea of a fun time. Sometimes body cutting (in the context of what’s being discussed) is sort of a phase for some kids. But for those who seem to do it frequently, it can be a sign of a problem. If I’m not mistaken, that’s what’s being discussed. Consider also the risk of infection. There are a number of links already posted on this thread that gives more insight on the subject and worth a quick read. I'm adding two more.

Cutting (in the way I understood the OP to mean) is a symptom or a sign of an emotional disturbance, a way to relieve emotional stress because they don’t know how else to handle their problems. So then, yes, it is indeed part of a psychological problem, though cutting is not the source of the problem.

Quotes from the first link below:

“Self-injurers are not "crazy," they are not "attention seekers," they simply do not know how to better cope or have not learned how to handle some of the extreme emotions that they are experiencing.”

“Studies have suggested that when people who self-injure get emotionally overwhelmed, an act of self-harm brings their levels of psychological and physiological tension and arousal back to a bearable baseline level almost immediately. In other words, they feel a strong uncomfortable emotion, don't know how to handle it (often do not even have a name for it), and know that hurting themselves will reduce the emotional discomfort extremely quickly.”

http://www.cignabehavioral.com/web/basicsi.../selfInjury.jsp

http://harm.me.uk/

[meemiathai]

Just a disscussion.

I am not saying that none of them are psychological disorders. I was merely trying to point out that in most cases they are not as serious as cases of a disorder. It is just one of the ways to ease one's anger or sorrow. It is very common among teenagers.

[AmeriThai]

Just a disscussion.

I am not saying that none of them are psychological disorders. I was merely trying to point out that in most cases they are not as serious as cases of a disorder. It is just one of the ways to ease one's anger or sorrow. It is very common among teenagers.

Of course you are. And I am also. I was making a clarification about it.

Yes, it seems to be more common among teenagers, although I think most teenagers don't carve their flesh. Most don't do it as a regular habit. As I said, it's more of a phase or a fad that most kids who cut grow out of. Unfortunately, there are those who carve more often, and it appears to be a growing problem. It may be a way of easing difficult emotions, but there are much better solutions than cutting. I still think that people who slash to extremes, that is to say on a frequent basis, to relieve their problems, I'd have to wonder about their sense of self esteem. Obviously there's a deeper problem somewhere in such people that needs to be resolved.

[Begbie]

Self mutilation is common in girls who have been sexually abused as children. Sexual abuse of children is very common in Thai culture, but rarely talked about.

You'll find these girls also suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder or something similar.

[zzdocxx]

From wikipedia:

Suicidal gestures and attempts

Sometimes, a person will make actions resembling suicide attempts while not being fully committed, or in a deliberate attempt to have others notice. This is called a suicidal gesture (also known as a "cry for help"). Prototypical methods might be a non-lethal method of self-harm that leaves obvious signs of the attempt, or simply a lethal action at a time when the person considers it likely that he/she will be rescued or prevented from fully carrying it out.

On the other hand, a person who genuinely wishes to die may fail, due to lack of knowledge about what they are doing, unwillingness to try methods that may end in permanent damage if they fail or harm others, or an unanticipated rescue, among other reasons. This is referred to as a suicide attempt.

Distinguishing between a suicidal attempt and a suicidal gesture may be difficult. Intent and motivation are not always fully discernible since so many people in a suicidal state are genuinely conflicted over whether they wish to end their lives. One approach, assuming that a sufficiently strong intent will ensure success, considers all near-suicides to be suicidal gestures. This however does not explain why so many people who fail at suicide end up with severe injuries, often permanent, which are most likely undesirable to those who are making a suicidal gesture. Another possibility is those wishing merely to make a suicidal gesture may end up accidentally killing themselves, perhaps by underestimating the lethality of the method chosen or by overestimating the possibility of external intervention by others. Suicide-like acts should generally be treated as seriously as possible because if there is an insufficiently strong reaction from loved ones from a suicidal gesture, this may motivate future, and ultimately more committed attempts.

In the technical literature the use of the terms parasuicide, or deliberate self-harm (DSH) are preferred – both of these terms avoid the question of the intent of the actions.

[November Rain]

Self mutilation is common in girls who have been sexually abused as children. Sexual abuse of children is very common in Thai culture, but rarely talked about.

You'll find these girls also suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder or something similar.

What, all of them? That's a very broad statement. Can you back it up? Articles? Links? Statistics?

[November Rain]

From wikipedia:

Suicidal gestures and attempts

Sometimes, a person will make actions resembling suicide attempts while not being fully committed, or in a deliberate attempt to have others notice. This is called a suicidal gesture (also known as a "cry for help"). Prototypical methods might be a non-lethal method of self-harm that leaves obvious signs of the attempt, or simply a lethal action at a time when the person considers it likely that he/she will be rescued or prevented from fully carrying it out.

On the other hand, a person who genuinely wishes to die may fail, due to lack of knowledge about what they are doing, unwillingness to try methods that may end in permanent damage if they fail or harm others, or an unanticipated rescue, among other reasons. This is referred to as a suicide attempt.

Distinguishing between a suicidal attempt and a suicidal gesture may be difficult. Intent and motivation are not always fully discernible since so many people in a suicidal state are genuinely conflicted over whether they wish to end their lives. One approach, assuming that a sufficiently strong intent will ensure success, considers all near-suicides to be suicidal gestures. This however does not explain why so many people who fail at suicide end up with severe injuries, often permanent, which are most likely undesirable to those who are making a suicidal gesture. Another possibility is those wishing merely to make a suicidal gesture may end up accidentally killing themselves, perhaps by underestimating the lethality of the method chosen or by overestimating the possibility of external intervention by others. Suicide-like acts should generally be treated as seriously as possible because if there is an insufficiently strong reaction from loved ones from a suicidal gesture, this may motivate future, and ultimately more committed attempts.

In the technical literature the use of the terms parasuicide, or deliberate self-harm (DSH) are preferred – both of these terms avoid the question of the intent of the actions.

Firstly, self harm & attempted suicide (whether meant seriously or not) are 2 different things.

Secondly, wikipedia is not a reliable source of information, as anyone can put their definitions onto it, whether they know what they're talking about or not.

[weary]

Sounds like a coping strategy to me. Probably not a very good one though - even though it shifts your focus from the negative feelings you have inside, into something concrete like pain, it does not solve the underlying issues, and leaves scars that will make other people uncomfortable in the future as well as may be a problem for yourself in society, even if you have long overcome your anger issues.

Hearing a song like the below could give you the impulse to try it.

(I recommend the cover of the same song by Johnny Cash)

NINE INCH NAILS LYRICS

"Hurt"

I hurt myself today

To see if I still feel

I focus on the pain

The only thing that's real

The needle tears a hole

The old familiar sting

Try to kill it all away

But I remember everything

What have I become?

My sweetest friend

Everyone I know

Goes away in the end

You could have it all

My empire of dirt

I will let you down

I will make you hurt

I wear this crown of shit

Upon my liar's chair

Full of broken thoughts

I cannot repair

Beneath the stains of time

The feelings disappear

You are someone else

I am still right here

What have I become?

My sweetest friend

Everyone I know

Goes away in the end

You could have it all

My empire of dirt

I will let you down

I will make you hurt

If I could start again

A million miles away

I would keep myself

I would find a way

[WaiWai]

I still think that people who slash to extremes, that is to say on a frequent basis, to relieve their problems, I'd have to wonder about their sense of self esteem. Obviously there's a deeper problem somewhere in such people that needs to be resolved.

Yes, surely this is true ?

I can see that people might "slash" themselves for a variety of reasons, and these might not correlate with psychological problems, and the behaviour might be learned from the peer group, but I still find the idea disturbing, and it's disturbing to me if this behaviour has been normalised in some groups.

Have teenagers always done this, or is it a recent trend ?

[AmeriThai]

I still think that people who slash to extremes, that is to say on a frequent basis, to relieve their problems, I'd have to wonder about their sense of self esteem. Obviously there's a deeper problem somewhere in such people that needs to be resolved.

Yes, surely this is true ?

I can see that people might "slash" themselves for a variety of reasons, and these might not correlate with psychological problems, and the behaviour might be learned from the peer group, but I still find the idea disturbing, and it's disturbing to me if this behaviour has been normalised in some groups.

Have teenagers always done this, or is it a recent trend ?

The way I understand it is that it's being discussed more in recent times creating more awareness about it. Prior times though, it had still been done, but seemed to be somewhat of a taboo subject or just ignored. These days, the planet is more crowded with people, and global communication is much faster. That wasn't the case too many decades ago.

Any way you look at it, teenagers go through a lot of hormonal surges and changes that can be very difficult and confusing time. Some are able to find ways to resolve emotional conflicts and problems, and others hsve a more difficult time with it. But not all teenagers or young people turn into self-slashers.

So, no it's not just a recent trend as such, but self-cutting does appear to be more frequent these days. I'm not sure if that's because there are more people now, or if it's because there's more stress and the percentages are much higher. It might be somewhere in between.

[Begbie]

Self mutilation is common in girls who have been sexually abused as children. Sexual abuse of children is very common in Thai culture, but rarely talked about.

You'll find these girls also suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder or something similar.

What, all of them? That's a very broad statement. Can you back it up? Articles? Links? Statistics?

Here's one but there are many others.

I'm sure you know how to use google. Educate yourself.