Wanting To Invest Into Rubber

[SAP]

This Company is sub-dividing land, and then providing a Rubber Maintenance Company for those that want to invest but do not have the skill or time to take care of it......

<removed>

[ozzydom]

This Company is sub-dividing land, and then providing a Rubber Maintenance Company for those that want to invest but do not have the skill or time to take care of it......

<removed>

The world is full of these "investment opportunities" rubber ,eucalypts ,pine etc ,just ask yourself if its all that good why would they want to share it.?

By the time you buy the land,foot the bill for the care and maintenance plus management fees ,the dividends are so low that a drop in product price will wipe you out,

[btate]

Why would you think an investment in something you know nothing about is a valid excercise?

There is NO easy money in rubber, lessons learned from my own close observation. Got 35 years and lots of cash to throw into rubber in the meantime, you might, might see a return.

Bt

[SAP]

This Company is sub-dividing land, and then providing a Rubber Maintenance Company for those that want to invest but do not have the skill or time to take care of it......

<removed>

The world is full of these "investment opportunities" rubber ,eucalypts ,pine etc ,just ask yourself if its all that good why would they want to share it.?

By the time you buy the land,foot the bill for the care and maintenance plus management fees ,the dividends are so low that a drop in product price will wipe you out,

Its good to be skeptical, but before putting it down you should look at the numbers.. it is a good investment.

[ozzydom]

Why would you think an investment in something you know nothing about is a valid excercise?

There is NO easy money in rubber, lessons learned from my own close observation. Got 35 years and lots of cash to throw into rubber in the meantime, you might, might see a return.

Bt

My posting was not casting any slur on this particular company but as a generalisation of the industry, I know this company and its manager personally and he is an ok guy.

But in Oz investors are still waiting for a dividend 40years out. Because plantations were a tax deduction ,big money was thrown at it but investors would have been better off paying their tax and enjoying what was left.

[SAP]

Why would you think an investment in something you know nothing about is a valid excercise?

There is NO easy money in rubber, lessons learned from my own close observation. Got 35 years and lots of cash to throw into rubber in the meantime, you might, might see a return.

Bt

To True Bt

I have been working here in Ag for 7 yrs, and too many times I have met falung crying their eyes out as they have just lost 3-4MB in a house, car, motorbike etc......investing into something they knew nothing about and something that has no income potential.........this concept is investing to a commodity product and land; (although we all know purchase lease options have to be looked at for the potential investor to safeguard it).

[btate]

Leae/purchase is not a concept that is legal for a foreigner here. I have looked at purchasing up to 70 rai of producing rubber via the Ms. The economics just don't add up to a good ROI.

All pricing etc. is based on my location in Eastern Thailand.

Today #1 liquid latex is selling at 71 Baht/kilo. The family is getting about 10 kilo per rai on a good day. They have only cut 4 out the last ten days. #1 liquid latex has been as low as 45B per kilo within the last 12 months and as high as 92 I think.

They do all their own tapping and hauling. If your not 'into' rubber you will have to pay someone to do it for you at what used to be 40% gross. Now that number is as high as 60% in some areas due to no one wants to cut rubber for small money. The days of the really poor doing this as an employee are gone sorry to say.

They already own the land so there is no expense involved there. The 'maintenance' is several bags of fert per ria per year not extravagant. The cleaning and maintaining of the brush/grass and overall trimming etc can be had for roughly 100B/day.

You can only cut 'in season' when the tree can stand it. i.e not when budding etc. When cutting the tree must get rest every 4th or 5th day depending on a lot of factors. Yeilds can range from 5 kilo per day to 12 kilo per day per rai. of course depending on tree status, rain, soil etc.

Can't cut when it has rained heavily that day or if its currently raining. Hmmm rubber grows best in areas with high rainfall. I figured out, using the families experience, that on average they cut between 185 and 210 days a year.

SiL just sold off 18 rai of rubber trees for approx. 1MM baht. Now its clearing time, excavator, layout, weeding cutting brush etc. getting ready to plant prior to the coming rainy season. Total cost probably around 30K Baht as a lot of the work was done with family helping out.

Using the averages of pricing mentioned above:

#1 latex = 67 Baht / kilo

rubber tapper at 50% = 33 Baht / kilo

Gross /day = 34 Baht / kilo multiply by # of rai - X

X times the number of days 196 = annual gross.

Using a 20 ria plot that comes out to 133,280 Baht per year. (take out the rubber cutters salary and it doubles)

now deal with the 'maintenance'/ fertilizer issues probably less than 20,000 Baht.

When your trees get to be 30 - 35 years old they will not produce quality sap and its time to replace. You get the 1 MM baht but then you have to replant and then wait 7 years for start up production.

OK so you say those numbers aren't accurate... hmmm figure I'm off 20% either way that's Ok

A return of 150,000 Baht does not give me a return I'm interested in.

I have not looked at the site you posted so if they are giving the land away and charging actual cutter costs without any add-on fees then I might be interested..

All of the above is my personal observation of 1 family. They have mulitple sources of income since rubber can't hack it. They also do a lot of fruit.

Rgds

Bt

[SAP]

Leae/purchase is not a concept that is legal for a foreigner here. I have looked at purchasing up to 70 rai of producing rubber via the Ms. The economics just don't add up to a good ROI.

All pricing etc. is based on my location in Eastern Thailand.

Today #1 liquid latex is selling at 71 Baht/kilo. The family is getting about 10 kilo per rai on a good day. They have only cut 4 out the last ten days. #1 liquid latex has been as low as 45B per kilo within the last 12 months and as high as 92 I think.

They do all their own tapping and hauling. If your not 'into' rubber you will have to pay someone to do it for you at what used to be 40% gross. Now that number is as high as 60% in some areas due to no one wants to cut rubber for small money. The days of the really poor doing this as an employee are gone sorry to say.

They already own the land so there is no expense involved there. The 'maintenance' is several bags of fert per ria per year not extravagant. The cleaning and maintaining of the brush/grass and overall trimming etc can be had for roughly 100B/day.

You can only cut 'in season' when the tree can stand it. i.e not when budding etc. When cutting the tree must get rest every 4th or 5th day depending on a lot of factors. Yeilds can range from 5 kilo per day to 12 kilo per day per rai. of course depending on tree status, rain, soil etc.

Can't cut when it has rained heavily that day or if its currently raining. Hmmm rubber grows best in areas with high rainfall. I figured out, using the families experience, that on average they cut between 185 and 210 days a year.

SiL just sold off 18 rai of rubber trees for approx. 1MM baht. Now its clearing time, excavator, layout, weeding cutting brush etc. getting ready to plant prior to the coming rainy season. Total cost probably around 30K Baht as a lot of the work was done with family helping out.

Using the averages of pricing mentioned above:

#1 latex = 67 Baht / kilo

rubber tapper at 50% = 33 Baht / kilo

Gross /day = 34 Baht / kilo multiply by # of rai - X

X times the number of days 196 = annual gross.

Using a 20 ria plot that comes out to 133,280 Baht per year. (take out the rubber cutters salary and it doubles)

now deal with the 'maintenance'/ fertilizer issues probably less than 20,000 Baht.

When your trees get to be 30 - 35 years old they will not produce quality sap and its time to replace. You get the 1 MM baht but then you have to replant and then wait 7 years for start up production.

OK so you say those numbers aren't accurate... hmmm figure I'm off 20% either way that's Ok

A return of 150,000 Baht does not give me a return I'm interested in.

I have not looked at the site you posted so if they are giving the land away and charging actual cutter costs without any add-on fees then I might be interested..

All of the above is my personal observation of 1 family. They have mulitple sources of income since rubber can't hack it. They also do a lot of fruit.

Rgds

Bt

Bt

Actual Average Thai yields in Thailand is about 280 kg/rai/yr which is a little deceiving as it includes the old Para rubber varieties. So far in my research 360-400 kg/rai/yr is more likely with some people saying upto 900 kg/rai/yr.

Now if you pump these figures into what you are saying we are talking profit (please ignore the 900kg/rai/yr as I am still unconvinced of this)

By my calculation from 50 rai (harvest cost @ 40%) price 71 baht per kg you would recieve an average net income of approx 35,000 bt per month (this is averaged through the year)

Anytime after about 12-15 years you can cut and run; with the timber stock which is approx 50,000 bt/rai return, and the resale value on the land.

The key is to buy land worth less than 50,000 bt per rai to make it profitable

The price of rubber has to be less than 25 bt/kg before its becomes unprofitable

KR

SAP

[ozzydom]

Leae/purchase is not a concept that is legal for a foreigner here. I have looked at purchasing up to 70 rai of producing rubber via the Ms. The economics just don't add up to a good ROI.

All pricing etc. is based on my location in Eastern Thailand.

Today #1 liquid latex is selling at 71 Baht/kilo. The family is getting about 10 kilo per rai on a good day. They have only cut 4 out the last ten days. #1 liquid latex has been as low as 45B per kilo within the last 12 months and as high as 92 I think.

They do all their own tapping and hauling. If your not 'into' rubber you will have to pay someone to do it for you at what used to be 40% gross. Now that number is as high as 60% in some areas due to no one wants to cut rubber for small money. The days of the really poor doing this as an employee are gone sorry to say.

They already own the land so there is no expense involved there. The 'maintenance' is several bags of fert per ria per year not extravagant. The cleaning and maintaining of the brush/grass and overall trimming etc can be had for roughly 100B/day.

You can only cut 'in season' when the tree can stand it. i.e not when budding etc. When cutting the tree must get rest every 4th or 5th day depending on a lot of factors. Yeilds can range from 5 kilo per day to 12 kilo per day per rai. of course depending on tree status, rain, soil etc.

Can't cut when it has rained heavily that day or if its currently raining. Hmmm rubber grows best in areas with high rainfall. I figured out, using the families experience, that on average they cut between 185 and 210 days a year.

SiL just sold off 18 rai of rubber trees for approx. 1MM baht. Now its clearing time, excavator, layout, weeding cutting brush etc. getting ready to plant prior to the coming rainy season. Total cost probably around 30K Baht as a lot of the work was done with family helping out.

Using the averages of pricing mentioned above:

#1 latex = 67 Baht / kilo

rubber tapper at 50% = 33 Baht / kilo

Gross /day = 34 Baht / kilo multiply by # of rai - X

X times the number of days 196 = annual gross.

Using a 20 ria plot that comes out to 133,280 Baht per year. (take out the rubber cutters salary and it doubles)

now deal with the 'maintenance'/ fertilizer issues probably less than 20,000 Baht.

When your trees get to be 30 - 35 years old they will not produce quality sap and its time to replace. You get the 1 MM baht but then you have to replant and then wait 7 years for start up production.

OK so you say those numbers aren't accurate... hmmm figure I'm off 20% either way that's Ok

A return of 150,000 Baht does not give me a return I'm interested in.

I have not looked at the site you posted so if they are giving the land away and charging actual cutter costs without any add-on fees then I might be interested..

All of the above is my personal observation of 1 family. They have mulitple sources of income since rubber can't hack it. They also do a lot of fruit.

Rgds

Bt

Bt

Actual Average Thai yields in Thailand is about 280 kg/rai/yr which is a little deceiving as it includes the old Para rubber varieties. So far in my research 360-400 kg/rai/yr is more likely with some people saying upto 900 kg/rai/yr.

Now if you pump these figures into what you are saying we are talking profit (please ignore the 900kg/rai/yr as I am still unconvinced of this)

By my calculation from 50 rai (harvest cost @ 40%) price 71 baht per kg you would recieve an average net income of approx 35,000 bt per month (this is averaged through the year)

Anytime after about 12-15 years you can cut and run; with the timber stock which is approx 50,000 bt/rai return, and the resale value on the land.

The key is to buy land worth less than 50,000 bt per rai to make it profitable

The price of rubber has to be less than 25 bt/kg before its becomes unprofitable

KR

SAP

Which takes me back to my original post,if it is so profitable ,why not develop the plantation yourselves?

[btate]

SAP

A couple of points, at sections of 50 rai that is at least 6 cutters and more likely more. I'll give you the 40% as the locale may support that.

I don't know enough about the physiology of rubber to say whether you can get 400 or 1400 Kg of rubber off a well tended rai.

But the kicker for me, and I did look seriously at rubber, is vegetables. for a couple of reasons.

Not counting land costs, it is possible to average 50K per month on just 4 rai. If you have perused the farming forum you've come across the Growing Makua in Thailand thread. This assumes a well kept farm just as a well kept rubber orchard can produce the maximum.

The start-up costs, again excluding land is a max of 100k Baht. Production starts in months not years is another major plus. A couple of downsides are that the market fluctuates severely. as does rubber, and you replant in approx 3 years. Again the maturation period is only months though.

Again you mention the advantage of "buying" land ( at or less than 50K per rai), which is just not doable for any non-Thai without the hassles of setting up a Thai company that you do not control. You cannot bail after a number of years and "sell" the land, that's a fact. You might be able to sell a lease but not the land.

In a veggie farm I can walk away from a lease holding and write off (mentally at least) the original capital outlay.

Now for some specifics and questions. As you can see from my original post that 900 - 1000+ Kg per rai is doable in a well kept plantation, so I don't doubt that those figures can be attained. Even at that rate these folks just ain't gettin rich. I grant you that scale does matter in this business and the larger plantation you can run the higher the profit margin. I don't think that increase in margin can overcome the initial start-up costs especially if your starting from scratch.

I assume the fees are based on the aggregate costs. i.e. cost of plants, cost of cutters, cost of fuel, fertilizer, cleaning and trimming. The costs are aggregated and then a 'fixed' percentage is added. For a non-participatory owner I would imagine the total cost would run to 60 or 70 percent of gross. That's after 7 years when production starts. Who eats the first 7 years?

Sounds to me like there is a rubber company, with processing facilities nearby, that can't be bothered to run their own plantation. Yet, they want the product and want someone else to bear the risks of a) a downturn in rubber commodity pricing, or a bad stretch of weather. This takes the risks out of it for them but not the leaseholder. This is standard practice in Thailand because subsistence farmers don't run businesses with ROI in mind, they are just trying to feed their families. This model is throughout Thailand, CPF is a large proponent/abuser of this style of commercial agrinomics.

sorry but this is just not a feasable idea for anyone looking for a solid return.

Rgds

Bt

Edited April 12, 2007 by btate

[SAP]

Dear Bt

I studied Farm Management and have been managing 1500 rai of agricultural land in NE Thailand growing potatoes, sweetcorn, corn seed, tomatoes, pumpkins amongst other things. I do the budgeting, planning and acquisition of goods for this project. And it is in my professional opinion (Salesman aside) that for someone coming to Thailand and "wanting" to invest money into agriculture that rubber, palm oil and eucalyptus is the safest investment they can make. Forestry investments around the world have proven this already, and depending on what you want to invest in Thailand it is only 3-7 yr wait, not 25 yrs such as pine tree's.

AS I said above our companies primary production is for processing vegeatables and therefore I can counter the high risk environment by starting the rubber servicing company. Our company is also planting rubber tree's for demonstration blocks.

If you would like to pass your email to me via PM I would be very willing to show you the figures that I have and would appreciate your your commments.

Regarding rubber prices fluctuating it actually mimics the world oil prices eg 7 years ago 25 USD a barrel rubber was about 25 bt/kg. Last year 90 USD a barrel rubber was 95 bt/kg. Currently oil is about 65 USD a barrel ruuber is about 65bt/kg. This is because approx 50% of ruuber products are made from synthetics, synthetics are made from fossil fuel. The oil price goes up synthetics becomes to expensive to make and the demand for natural rubber increases. My prediction is oil will never drop below $50 USD a barrel and rubber will match it.

KR

SAP

[Roy Jing]

Leae/purchase is not a concept that is legal for a foreigner here. I have looked at purchasing up to 70 rai of producing rubber via the Ms. The economics just don't add up to a good ROI.

All pricing etc. is based on my location in Eastern Thailand.

Today #1 liquid latex is selling at 71 Baht/kilo. The family is getting about 10 kilo per rai on a good day. They have only cut 4 out the last ten days. #1 liquid latex has been as low as 45B per kilo within the last 12 months and as high as 92 I think.

They do all their own tapping and hauling. If your not 'into' rubber you will have to pay someone to do it for you at what used to be 40% gross. Now that number is as high as 60% in some areas due to no one wants to cut rubber for small money. The days of the really poor doing this as an employee are gone sorry to say.

They already own the land so there is no expense involved there. The 'maintenance' is several bags of fert per ria per year not extravagant. The cleaning and maintaining of the brush/grass and overall trimming etc can be had for roughly 100B/day.

You can only cut 'in season' when the tree can stand it. i.e not when budding etc. When cutting the tree must get rest every 4th or 5th day depending on a lot of factors. Yeilds can range from 5 kilo per day to 12 kilo per day per rai. of course depending on tree status, rain, soil etc.

Can't cut when it has rained heavily that day or if its currently raining. Hmmm rubber grows best in areas with high rainfall. I figured out, using the families experience, that on average they cut between 185 and 210 days a year.

SiL just sold off 18 rai of rubber trees for approx. 1MM baht. Now its clearing time, excavator, layout, weeding cutting brush etc. getting ready to plant prior to the coming rainy season. Total cost probably around 30K Baht as a lot of the work was done with family helping out.

Using the averages of pricing mentioned above:

#1 latex = 67 Baht / kilo

rubber tapper at 50% = 33 Baht / kilo

Gross /day = 34 Baht / kilo multiply by # of rai - X

X times the number of days 196 = annual gross.

Using a 20 ria plot that comes out to 133,280 Baht per year. (take out the rubber cutters salary and it doubles)

now deal with the 'maintenance'/ fertilizer issues probably less than 20,000 Baht.

When your trees get to be 30 - 35 years old they will not produce quality sap and its time to replace. You get the 1 MM baht but then you have to replant and then wait 7 years for start up production.

OK so you say those numbers aren't accurate... hmmm figure I'm off 20% either way that's Ok

A return of 150,000 Baht does not give me a return I'm interested in.

I have not looked at the site you posted so if they are giving the land away and charging actual cutter costs without any add-on fees then I might be interested..

All of the above is my personal observation of 1 family. They have mulitple sources of income since rubber can't hack it. They also do a lot of fruit.

Rgds

Bt

Btate,

You have stated that your family gets 10kg of rubber per Rai on a good day in one sentence , and in another sentence between 5kg and 12kg of rubber per Rai per day.

Correct me if I'm wrong but your calculations appear to be worked out on only getting 1kg of rubber per Rai per day and not between 5 and 12 kg per day.

Therefore I think your numbers should be more like this:

34baht (33 has gone to tapper) x 5 (kilo per rai - using your smallest number) x 20 ( No. of rai ) x 196 ( days cut ) = 666,400 baht not 133,280 baht as you thought.I would think your figures are at the very least 500% off the mark and not 20%

Hope this helps.

Roy

[btate]

Roy, your are absolutely correct thanks.... forgot to add the price into the math when using the calculator.

Too bad it took two days to sort it out eh?

So the figures are not as bas as I thought, OK... Still not for me though for a couple of reasons.

The long lead time for a 'new' operation .... 7 years

Apparently they are doing 50 rai sublets and that amount takes more than a couple of folks to cut and maintain, I'm not into hiring staff at all.

A strong vegetable crop can bring on average of 12000 - 15000 baht per rai per month, for a 20 rai plot that still comes out ahead of rubber me thinks.

In the case of a disaster, fire (a real possibility in the dry season), pests, or disease the recovery period for veggies is months rather than years.

Thanks again!

Bt

[Gary A]

I'd suggest that anyone planting rubber trees have access to water for irrigation. One of the locals here in Loei tried it and the trees looked great until the next year when we had near drought conditions. There were trees scattered around that survived but at least 95% died.

We have 10 rai that is still growing nothing but weeds. The wife refuses to take a chance on planting anything until we have water for irrigation.

[JungleBiker]

Today #1 liquid latex is selling at 71 Baht/kilo.

Bt

Actual Average Thai yields in Thailand is about 280 kg/rai/yr which is a little deceiving as it includes the old Para rubber varieties. So far in my research 360-400 kg/rai/yr is more likely with some people saying upto 900 kg/rai/yr.

Hi SAP and Btate,

I think quoted rubber yields (e.g. 280kg/rai/year) normally refer to dried rubber. So, Btate, how about the yields of latex and the price per kg for latex that you quoted, are you referring to kilograms of liquid latex or kg of its dried rubber content?

JB

[btate]

Today #1 liquid latex is selling at 71 Baht/kilo.

Bt

Actual Average Thai yields in Thailand is about 280 kg/rai/yr which is a little deceiving as it includes the old Para rubber varieties. So far in my research 360-400 kg/rai/yr is more likely with some people saying upto 900 kg/rai/yr.

Hi SAP and Btate,

I think quoted rubber yields (e.g. 280kg/rai/year) normally refer to dried rubber. So, Btate, how about the yields of latex and the price per kg for latex that you quoted, are you referring to kilograms of liquid latex or kg of its dried rubber content?

JB

All numbers in my post (corrected) were for liquid latex.

Bt

[chang35baht]

Roy, your are absolutely correct thanks.... forgot to add the price into the math when using the calculator.

Too bad it took two days to sort it out eh?

So the figures are not as bas as I thought, OK... Still not for me though for a couple of reasons.

The long lead time for a 'new' operation .... 7 years

Apparently they are doing 50 rai sublets and that amount takes more than a couple of folks to cut and maintain, I'm not into hiring staff at all.

A strong vegetable crop can bring on average of 12000 - 15000 baht per rai per month, for a 20 rai plot that still comes out ahead of rubber me thinks.

In the case of a disaster, fire (a real possibility in the dry season), pests, or disease the recovery period for veggies is months rather than years.

Good for you Btate that you work your 20 rai veggie plot on your own. you not into hiring staff at all????

Can you sell all of this locally or do you have a buyer for all of your vegetables already. A 1 or 2 rai plot is fine for the local market. Unless you specialise in a particular veg that you know you can sell enmasse, 20 rai seems a bit large, especially as you are doing it on your own.

Best regards,

C35b

[btate]

C35

Nope, not doing 20 rai of anything. The 20 rai was used as a comparison value for financial reference only. Since I am pretty familiar with approx 20 rai of actual rubber production it was a handy reference point.

However, if you've read some of the other threads you will have discovered a couple of products that can possibley produce 50K per month on a 4 rai plot. The labor is not intensive and can be handled by family members. Labor is basically harvesting for a couple of hours each morning.

With some research and planning and a reasonable investment in infrastructure, you can focus on doing one product well.

Sales are an issue, but, if done correctly should not pose a long term issue.

rgds

Bt

[Gary A]

C35

Nope, not doing 20 rai of anything. The 20 rai was used as a comparison value for financial reference only. Since I am pretty familiar with approx 20 rai of actual rubber production it was a handy reference point.

However, if you've read some of the other threads you will have discovered a couple of products that can possibley produce 50K per month on a 4 rai plot. The labor is not intensive and can be handled by family members. Labor is basically harvesting for a couple of hours each morning.

With some research and planning and a reasonable investment in infrastructure, you can focus on doing one product well.

Sales are an issue, but, if done correctly should not pose a long term issue.

rgds

Fifty thousand baht a month from four rai? I think it's illegal to grow marijuana or poppies in Thailand. If there was any crop that paid that much, everyone would grow it and the market would be flooded. Any vegetable crop is VERY labor intensive.

[btate]

Hmmm OK

[JungleBiker]

Today #1 liquid latex is selling at 71 Baht/kilo.

Bt

Actual Average Thai yields in Thailand is about 280 kg/rai/yr which is a little deceiving as it includes the old Para rubber varieties. So far in my research 360-400 kg/rai/yr is more likely with some people saying upto 900 kg/rai/yr.

Hi SAP and Btate,

I think quoted rubber yields (e.g. 280kg/rai/year) normally refer to dried rubber. So, Btate, how about the yields of latex and the price per kg for latex that you quoted, are you referring to kilograms of liquid latex or kg of its dried rubber content?

JB

All numbers in my post (corrected) were for liquid latex.

Bt

Okay, so now let's go back to the correction that Roy made to your calculations:

"34baht (33 has gone to tapper) x 5 (kilo per rai - using your smallest number) x 20 ( No. of rai ) x 196 ( days cut ) = 666,400 baht not 133,280 baht as you thought.I would think your figures are at the very least 500% off the mark and not 20%"

In this case Roy assumed a yield of 5 kg/rai/day x 196 days = 980 kg/rai/year. If we assume the dried rubber content of the liquid latex is 30 - 40% (reference: http://www.measurement.sk/2005/S3/Jayanthy.pdf) then this is equivalent to a dried rubber yield of 294 - 392 kg/rai/year. This range more or less fits with the yields quoted by SAP. So that's okay! I just wanted to make sure we weren't talking "apples and oranges" (or latex and dried rubber) in terms of yields. Sorry for the interruption.

Personally, if I had 20 or 50 rai of land and I wanted to plant a tree crop I would plant fruit trees not rubber. The time to first harvest is quicker (e.g. say 4 years, not 6 - 7), you only have to harvest one time per year (say over 7 days, not 196 days per year), and you can harvest during normal working hours (not before dawn) and I reckon the net income has got to be higher (due to the lower harvesting costs). The key is to select the right fruit crop for your farm (soil/climate) while also taking into account market demand.

JB.

[Lickey]

My wifes 39 rai farm has tamarind, 40 trees, Kanoon 2 trees, banana, about 20, lam-yi 40, mango 10, some lime about 6, and 9 rai papaya intercropped with with rubber trees, and half rai of salad bits and pieces,

the Papaya and rubber were planted in March last year, they had good sellable fruits in 6 months, since the missus bought the 9rai of Bro in law, we have vastly improved the irrigation system, that was 2 months ago, for the last month we have been selling to local market traders on a first come basis, they wait outside the farm gate till we get there about 6.30, they pick the papaya, we weigh and bag it, job done!! labour wise, missus get a bloke with a petrol powered strimmer once every 3 weeks to keep weeds down, need ground cover to keep moisture in, also sawdust from the sawmill on farm and some rice straw, we give them half a mug of fertiliser monthly and they are thriving,

Missus makes 1500bht everyday from sales to local market, 30 days 1 month 45000 bht, labour, 200bht, electricity for pumps, about 900bht, fertiliser/vitamim, 1200bht,

And the rubber trees? they are growing, might get a return in about 6 years?

Ps, 1 kilo of papaya in Udon thani tesco lotus was priced at 28bht, near yellow colour, Thais want the firm fleshed green ones to make pok pok ect, ours are firm green fleshed and we sell for 6 bht kilo, also kanoon {jackfriut} was selling for 50 bht kilo, i picked 3 today, the biggest is 19 kilo/14/12, in total that would be 2250bht , no way would we get that locally,

Food for thought, Rubber or Fruit??

[SAP]

Hi Fella's

Back from R&R and playing in the water and talcum powder. There has been some really good info posted here.

Lickey and his wife I think have got it about right, if you want to go into agriculture here and do it yourself, diversification into a number of fruit tree's maybe a little vege is sound farming practices. You have income coming in at different times of the years, some years one product will recieve high prices and others low. Last year I grew 40 rai of pumpkin and got 2 bt/kg, this year I grew 15 rai and got 9 bt/kg.

When it comes to Vege Pdn our comapny will not grow in the wet season as its too wet is this area. But to do full year round vege Pdn you need to look at mountainous regions such as Loei, Mae Sot, Chaiyapum etc.

My experience of vege Pdn here is you have to be on the ball 100% of the time. In the space of 3-4 days you can have an out break of aphids, to spread virus through your field. Or Caterpillars that within a week have made a small mark on produce that renders it almost worthless. This and increasing resistance to chemicals, low fertility soils that need to be monitored closely. When asked about doing vege pdn here I have always said its not easy. Unless you have experience in tropical regions of the world, I recommend to people to save their money.

To put a commercial grade irrigation system in you are looking from 10-15,000 bt per rai so this is quite and investment cost that has to be recoperated.

Also in the futre SAP will also be able to supply the same services for Palm Oil and Eucalyptus tree's. This makes sense as you can start to get some income after only 3-4 years.

Regarding Btate and labour issues, this is one of the services SAP will provide. As I speak right now we have 80 people harvesting 100 of seed corn by hand.

Happy Dry SongKran to everybody