Dan Crenshaw Debunks the left's COVID19 narrative

[AussieBob18]

A lot has been said in the Media and by the Dems about how Trump is to blame for all the deaths and has 'blood on his hands'.

If anyone wants to see/hear the truth as told by a right wing pundit  - then watch this youtube video - and then make up your own mind.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXZ9LPkQ3LA

 

[chessman]

33 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

the truth

lol

 

Political games. Nobody ever wants to take responsibility and say "yes, we made mistakes".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stocky]

45 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

If anyone wants to see/hear the truth as told by a right wing pundit 

Yes, it's all Obama's fault, China, the WHO, the Governors, the Fed, the FBI, the CIA, anybody, but anybody but the 'man' at the top.

 

I guess they lost Truman's "The Buck Stops Here" sign somewhere along the years.

 

 

[rabas]

13 minutes ago, chessman said:

lol

 

Political games. Nobody ever wants to take responsibility and say "yes, we made mistakes

 

"Yes", said Xi, "it came from a lab."

 

Who knew?

 

"Yes", explained Xi.

[AussieBob18]

6 minutes ago, Stocky said:

Yes, it's all Obama's fault, China, the WHO, the Governors, the Fed, the FBI, the CIA, anybody, but anybody but the 'man' at the top.

I guess they lost Truman's "The Buck Stops Here" sign somewhere along the years.

So you are agreeing with the video or not?

You saying Trump caused all the deaths from Covid?

 

[ThailandRyan]

5 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

"Yes", said Xi, "it came from a lab."

 

Who knew?

 

"Yes", explained Xi.

But, it was not my Lab, she has been spayed already...

[AussieBob18]

19 minutes ago, chessman said:

lol

Political games. Nobody ever wants to take responsibility and say "yes, we made mistakes".

 

You first - list all the Dems mistakes, and then I will list Trump's.

I will give you until the end of the month - it will take a while.

[simple1]

7 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

"Yes", said Xi, "it came from a lab."

 

Who knew?

 

"Yes", explained Xi.

Got a link to that game changer?

[timendres]

9 minutes ago, Stocky said:

Yes, it's all Obama's fault, China, the WHO, the Governors, the Fed, the FBI, the CIA, anybody, but anybody but the 'man' at the top.

 

I guess they lost Truman's "The Buck Stops Here" sign somewhere along the years.

I think the video does a good job of pointing out that there is plenty of blame to go around, or better still, things where no blame should be attached. He is not saying that there is no blame for Trump. I am no Trump fan, and it is painful to watch some of the videos I have seen of Trump displaying his Trump-ness. But to think any other president would have handled this much better (other than to be more diplomatic/presidential), is a bit naive.

[TopDeadSenter]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Got a link to that game changer?

The age of critical thought is well and truly over. There are 2 theories being floated, let's have a quick recap.

 

a)a horseshoe bat got lost by 1,000km and flew into a Wuhan live animal market where it went nuts and bit a pangolin for no reason. The bitten pangolin then somehow caught the very lost bats coronavirus, and went on to bite or scratch a human. The human then became infected and spread it around. For some unknown reason the CCP covered up the accidental sickness outreak, which makes it all Trumps fault.

 

b)a badly run lab researching bat coronaviruses had a leak. The CCP feared it would make them lose face, so they covered it all up.

 

 One of the above 2 scenarios makes much sense, the other is far fetched to the point of silliness. Nobody needs a link from MSM to tell them that.

[simple1]

Thought I'd check the guy's claim concerning trump and his State of the Union address on 05/02 as easy to do. Result? not what one would expect from his inference...

 

It’s true that Trump mentioned the coronavirus during his State of the Union address, but only in passing, taking 20 seconds out of his 78-minute speech. By contrast, he spent more than three minutes praising right-wing radio host Rush Limbaugh and presenting him with the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

In the speech, Trump said he was working with Beijing “on the coronavirus outbreak in China.” Trump did not mention that US intelligence agencies had already sent a flurry of warnings to the White House about the growing dangers of a pandemic, including at least one warning that was included in his daily intelligence briefing, according to The Washington Post and ABC News.

[Rancid]

Just like a flat earther can make a good argument for that, good arguments can be made on corona for numerous views. That being because all governments are not giving accurate information, seems we are forced to wade through it all and make our own determinations. Mine is based on what I've read, that it is little worse than a flu, however I certainly concede I could be wrong. Odd how political divides seem to divide us on almost everything, in the end there is no real political divide, it is all manufactured by manipulation experts.

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

The age of critical thought is well and truly over. There are 2 theories being floated, let's have a quick recap.

 

a)a horseshoe bat got lost by 1,000km and flew into a Wuhan live animal market where it went nuts and bit a pangolin for no reason. The bitten pangolin then somehow caught the very lost bats coronavirus, and went on to bite or scratch a human. The human then became infected and spread it around. For some unknown reason the CCP covered up the accidental sickness outreak, which makes it all Trumps fault.

 

b)a badly run lab researching bat coronaviruses had a leak. The CCP feared it would make them lose face, so they covered it all up.

 

 One of the above 2 scenarios makes much sense, the other is far fetched to the point of silliness. Nobody needs a link from MSM to tell them that.

In other words you don't have a factual response to my query

[TopDeadSenter]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Thought I'd check the guy's claim concerning trump and his State of the Union address on 05/02 as easy to do. Result? not what one would expect from his inference...

Was there anything else happening on and before the 5th Feb that might have distracted Donald Trump? What were the opposition doing on that day to help Trump focus on the Wuhan flu?

 

 

 

 

[chessman]

25 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

You first - list all the Dems mistakes, and then I will list Trump's.

I will give you until the end of the month - it will take a while.

why is everything so black and white? Where are the grey areas? Your political agenda is making you twist the facts to suit your own purposes.

 

Can the truth be somewhere in the middle?

 

The USA were very complacent at the start and should have started preparing earlier. This is the biggest mistake but the majority of countries made the same one. If (almost) everyone makes the same mistake then maybe you just say it was a really difficult problem and limit the blame.

 

After that, the response seems to be pretty standard, Trump has said plenty of incredibly stupid things (but doesn't he always?) but if you go by his actions, he's generally followed the advice of his medical experts. The USA started off badly with testing, but have managed to ramp this up and are now testing a lot more than some other countries. That seems good.

 

Fair?

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by chessman

[ChouDoufu]

21 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

The age of critical thought is well and truly over. There are 2 theories being floated, let's have a quick recap.

 

a)a horseshoe bat got lost by 1,000km and flew into a Wuhan live animal market where it went nuts and bit a pangolin for no reason. The bitten pangolin then somehow caught the very lost bats coronavirus, and went on to bite or scratch a human. The human then became infected and spread it around. For some unknown reason the CCP covered up the accidental sickness outreak, which makes it all Trumps fault.

 

b)a badly run lab researching bat coronaviruses had a leak. The CCP feared it would make them lose face, so they covered it all up.

 

 One of the above 2 scenarios makes much sense, the other is far fetched to the point of silliness. Nobody needs a link from MSM to tell them that.

 

wow, that's incredible!  now we know the rest of the story!

 

thailandryan took his lab out running, and due to too much corona, he badly needed to take a leak, unfortunately drenching a bat.  bats are considered good omens in china, thus the ccp covered up the urine stain, like, with a cloth.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by ChouDoufu
autocorrect mutations

[TopDeadSenter]

6 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

wow, that's incredible!  now we know the rest of the story!

 

thailandryan took his lab out running, and due to too much corona, he badly needed to take a leak, unfortunately drenching a bat.  bats are considered good omens in china, thus the ccp covered up the urine stain, like, with a cloth.

 

 

more plausible than the official MSM version.

[Phoenix Rising]

39 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

The age of critical thought is well and truly over.

I agree. That became painfully obvious when Trump was elected president.

[Logosone]

29 minutes ago, chessman said:

 

The USA were very complacent at the start and should have started preparing earlier. This is the biggest mistake but the majority of countries made the same one. If (almost) everyone makes the same mistake then maybe you just say it was a really difficult problem and limit the blame.

 

Yes, the USA did not test early enough. But that was entirely the CDC's fault, not Trump's.

 

Angela Merkel let Chinese planes land until 16 March, unchecked. Trump has handled this a little better than most.

 

Not perfectly, but better than most.

[spidermike007]

If you look at the timeline, it is astonishing how many mistakes were made, how long it took for Trump to take this seriously, and how little is still being done to prevent infections, and death. Fauci is the wrong guy for the job, as he cannot think outside the box, is bought and paid for by big pharma, and is way too orthodox to even consider progressive methods, and abandonment of medical protocols, which is needed at this time. Protocols are killing people. The ventilators are not working, and the drug cocktails need to be used. Just check out this video. When failure surrounds you, you must look toward those who are having success, right? This doctor has nailed it.

 

some vitally important front line information about the effect covid has on the lungs. and why we are getting it wrong.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g4u1LJQ7_k&feature=youtu.be  on that video minutes 18 to 35 are brilliant. alot of clarity.

[chercheur888]

Is this guy working by any chance for Trump's new favorite network OAN, One America News?

[bestie]

Yes he's responsible for many death. Do your country a favor and get rid of him. 

[Monomial]

59 minutes ago, chessman said:

why is everything so black and white? Where are the grey areas? Your political agenda is making you twist the facts to suit your own purposes.

 

Can the truth be somewhere in the middle?

 

The USA were very complacent at the start and should have started preparing earlier. This is the biggest mistake but the majority of countries made the same one. If (almost) everyone makes the same mistake then maybe you just say it was a really difficult problem and limit the blame.

 

After that, the response seems to be pretty standard, Trump has said plenty of incredibly stupid things (but doesn't he always?) but if you go by his actions, he's generally followed the advice of his medical experts. The USA started off badly with testing, but have managed to ramp this up and are now testing a lot more than some other countries. That seems good.

 

Fair?

 

 

It is very fair, but the problem today goes even further than that. Put politics and prejudice aside for a moment. Right now, it appears that the models used to justify this lockdown were wrong. In the few places where universal testing has been done, and people have tried to verify the model's predictions, it seems the data we used to build the model was incorrect. The asymptomatic carriers are much worse than anyone thought.

 

This is a tremendous issue, because you can't just say "Oops" at this point. A global depression has been initiated. Virus aside, that alone is going to result in hundreds of thousands of deaths.  Unless you are a psychopath who can simply ignore everything, people just aren't built to recover psychologically from those kinds of collosal mistakes. The natural human reaction is to double down and look for new data that may allow you to justify your entrenched position. The value of being a psycopath like Trump is he can simply ignore what he said yesterday and not feel the least bit guilty about it.

 

Think of it like this. I have a family to feed, and I need the data to say this lockdown should be scrapped. So I am going to notice data that supports my conclusion more than data that does not. But WHO and CDC researchers are no different from me. They are people too, and they need the lockdown they recommended to be worthwhile, so they are going to selectively notice only the data that supports their position. This is called selection bias. It is a well known problem, and scientists are people first and foremost. This pandemic has grown so big that many people just won't be able to see the reality. It's not that they are bad people. It's how we were built and evolved.

 

The question now is, who is giving the advice?  Is the President getting good advice from both sides of the debate? Is he seeing the actual details of the science, or only the parts shown through the sieve of selection bias by his advisors?

 

There are enough anomolies at this point that we know something is not right with these models. But what and where is a big open question, and short of sustained and repeated global testing of the entire population, it is nearly impossible to prove with certainty.

 

I just wish the establishment would come out and say this. We need to globally say "oops" at this point and admit we honestly know very little. The fact that human nature prevents it is the real problem.

[Seismic]

1 hour ago, AussieBob18 said:

You first - list all the Dems mistakes, and then I will list Trump's.

Always makes me laugh when someone posts a "this is the truth from a right wing pundit", and is probably the same person who constantly complains about the Biased MSM and the nasty Dems. Fact is Trump has spent his time listening to Fox news and other right wing media rather than the mass of experts he could listen to. Why?, because he is uncomfortable with people who are far more intelligent than him and do not have an agenda other than doing their jobs. Trump did nothing throughout the whole of February, and his China travel ban did not include the 40,000 Americans and Permanent residents who were allowed to fly back into the US without adequate screening. He has spent his time blaming Obama for a lack of stockpiles (ignoring the fact that he could have increased them in his three years in office). He is now blaming the WHO (hint, another idea he got from Fox news). Is he entirely to blame, no, of course not. Should he man up and accept the US response was less than stellar, Yes, but he will not, because In three years in office he claims he has never been wrong or made a bad call (if you believe that, I have a very fine Bridge I would like to sell you). The man is a Grifter who has been out of his depth since he stole the office, its time he and his criminal family got their just deserts.

[Logosone]

2 minutes ago, Seismic said:

Always makes me laugh when someone posts a "this is the truth from a right wing pundit", and is probably the same person who constantly complains about the Biased MSM and the nasty Dems. Fact is Trump has spent his time listening to Fox news and other right wing media rather than the mass of experts he could listen to. Why?, because he is uncomfortable with people who are far more intelligent than him and do not have an agenda other than doing their jobs. Trump did nothing throughout the whole of February, and his China travel ban did not include the 40,000 Americans and Permanent residents who were allowed to fly back into the US without adequate screening. He has spent his time blaming Obama for a lack of stockpiles (ignoring the fact that he could have increased them in his three years in office). He is now blaming the WHO (hint, another idea he got from Fox news). Is he entirely to blame, no, of course not. Should he man up and accept the US response was less than stellar, Yes, but he will not, because In three years in office he claims he has never been wrong or made a bad call (if you believe that, I have a very fine Bridge I would like to sell you). The man is a Grifter who has been out of his depth since he stole the office, its time he and his criminal family got their just deserts.

There are three ways to fight this pandemic:

 

1. Testing and isolating the infected

2. Clinical Management

3. Social distancing.

 

Trump couldn't start with testing early because the CDC was incapable of producing working tests on time. This caused a delay, but when testing was an option this was done on a grand scale in the US, more tests done than anywhere in the world.

 

Clinical management is limited by the hospital infrastructure in the country, not something Trump is directly responsible for. Over many decades the US health care system was subject to underfunding, you can't blame Trump for these mistakes.

 

Social distancing was put in place by Trump but it may be the least effective measure of all. 

 

Whatever personal animosity you have towards the man you have to look at the facts. They don't support the notion that Trump has handled this pandemic worse than anyone else. You may want this to be the case, but it's not.

[chessman]

43 minutes ago, Monomial said:

The natural human reaction is to double down and look for new data that may allow you to justify your entrenched position.

do you really think so? Do you not think the natural human reaction is to justify what you have done previously as much as you can and move slowly towards what you now believe the truth to be?

 

I think you overstate the problems with the models  and the 'mainstream' opinion too. There are a lot of unknowns and I think there is a significant chance you are correct but there is also a significant chance you are not. Look at the number of dead in New York State, how can that be explained? In such a situation it seems better that governments save as many lives as possible in the short term, improve testing and testing infrastructure, get PPE and bolster their health services. Trust that as the initial peak is reached and passed, more knowledge will be available. This is the first step...

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by chessman

[xylophone]

10 minutes ago, Logosone said:

There are three ways to fight this pandemic:

 

1. Testing and isolating the infected

2. Clinical Management

3. Social distancing.

 

Trump couldn't start with testing early because the CDC was incapable of producing working tests on time. This caused a delay, but when testing was an option this was done on a grand scale in the US, more tests done than anywhere in the world.

 

Clinical management is limited by the hospital infrastructure in the country, not something Trump is directly responsible for. Over many decades the US health care system was subject to underfunding, you can't blame Trump for these mistakes.

 

Social distancing was put in place by Trump but it may be the least effective measure of all. 

 

Whatever personal animosity you have towards the man you have to look at the facts. They don't support the notion that Trump has handled this pandemic worse than anyone else. You may want this to be the case, but it's not.

Unfortunately your "facts" don't fit other non-right wing facts which are available, and of course he's handled it very badly from the early stages by stating that: it would be over in a few days, that he had it under control, that it wasn't serious, that it was just like the flu, that the warm weather would see it decline etc, etc, etc......

 

And trump partly dismantled the office which was designed to handle such things as epidemics, hindering it beyond measure.

 

I would suggest that you might want to look elsewhere for your facts other than the TDS network or other right wing publications or news outlets.

 

I could publish the mistakes that trump and his cronies made with regards to this outbreak, and I have done this on several other posts, so I could dig it up for you very easily, and what I have posted is supported by facts and even by some Republicans would you believe!!,
 

[simple1]

2 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Was there anything else happening on and before the 5th Feb that might have distracted Donald Trump? What were the opposition doing on that day to help Trump focus on the Wuhan flu?

 

 

 

 

trump was well covered by his sycophants, what time did he need to invest other than watching proceeding on TV. oh that's right he went to visit his fellow authoritarian in India, praising Xi and so on rather than being proactive to protect US from Covid-19, though he did put some actions in place, but as we see now way to late.

 

BTW you & other trump supporters have kept very quiet on the topic below. Would have thought it would create a wave of excuses, claims of hoax etc...

 

 

The Washington Post reported Sunday that over a dozen Americans working at the World Health Organization provided “real-time” information about the emerging coronavirus to the White House, seeming to undercut President Trump’s accusations that the WHO failed to communicate the extent of the disease’s threat. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/04/19/report-americans-at-world-health-organization-told-trump-administration-about-coronavirus-late-last-year/#4168f49a548d

[Odysseus123]

3 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

A lot has been said in the Media and by the Dems

I really do think that you should have a nice strong cup of tea,a Bex powder and a good lay down...

[Monomial]

18 minutes ago, chessman said:

do you really think so? Do you not think the natural human reaction is to justify what you have done previously as much as you can and move slowly towards what you now believe the truth to be?

 

Not really. Once you have locked yourself into a position, it is very, very difficult to be convinced otherwise. As a scientist, I am trained to watch for this, and even I can't always do it. You assume that people will see an objective truth, but when faced with guilt over a bad choice, this generally doesn't happen. Instead, people perceive the truth to be whatever their opinion is, and look for data to justify it.  The other way is too painful, and we have evolved to avoid pain.

 

I have no idea what is driving the deaths in New York. Neither does anyone else though, and that is the problem. Certainly, if you remove New York from the equation as an outlier, the picture that is painted is entirely different. Nobody outside of New York has that huge R value they seem to have.

 

And as I said, you absolutely MUST account for the asymptomatic carriers. The fact that they are so high means the current lockdown should be having a very minimal effect at best. You would need a truly draconian lockdown to account for a reduced R value in this configuration, and that is not what seems to be happening, again with the possible exception of New York. Something other than the lockdown appears to be holding infections down elsewhere. Herd immunity maybe? No data to support this conclusion. Just a conjecture.

 

I don't have the answer. I would like to see more raw data and real discussion. I want to see the math and the assumptions by the people giving Trump advice. This tendency towards secrecy is not helpful in the discussion.