Underground water tank

[Metropolitian]

I was reading some threads about water shortage there was one line saying that underground water tank are best.

I am in a town house and really don't have room for a big tank standing outside, the only place where it can stand is at the backside on the 2nd floor (balcony on top of the shower/kitchen).

 

Underground would be in the front porch/patio, the only place that's 'outside'.

There is no room for a crane so only possible digging is do with hands.

Septic is in the back under the shower/kitchen (which was originally outdoor townhouse style)

 

Currently, for years, on normal days we do have water and it will get tot the upper floor fine. At 11 o'clock every evening the pressure drops and only the ground floor has water.

I am really used to this, and have a shower outside on the patio near the water meter. On nights that shower works fine.

 

Now, it happened that some days in the year that we don't have water and for that I am using big buckets (80l). I want those out of the way and was thinking about a  solution for a while.

I don't want to use regular waterpump to get the pressure up for on nights. The maintenance, space, noise, and so on.

 

The tanks just for emergency situations.

 

Underground or on 2nd floor balcony..   underground need a pump, I am fine with that as it only would be used on time of emergency or refreshing.  Balcony, will fill slowly but can be topped and can only used for the ground floor without pump unless if it's in the attic but water won't reach that far except when pressure during day is sufficient.

 

Story short: who has a (diy or prefab) tank underground and how did you do it?

[Crossy]

How big a tank were you thinking of?

 

The problem with the balcony is loading, a full 1000L tank weighs 1,000kg (1 Ton). Is the structure up to it?

 

There are some "slimline" tanks that are tall and thin, you could find space for one in a corner of your plot. The better (read more $$$) pumps are very quiet and there's no real maintenance needed.

 

I'm not convinced about underground tanks, the slightest hint of flooding and they fill with muddy water just when you really need them.

 

[VocalNeal]

Is the upper floor rated for that much point load?  Water is not light! 

 

Edit: how have your neighbours solved this problem?

Edited April 21, 2020 by VocalNeal

[Metropolitian]

7 minutes ago, Crossy said:

How big a tank were you thinking of?

 

The problem with the balcony is loading, a full 1000L tank weighs 1,000kg (1 Ton). Is the structure up to it?

 

There are some "slimline" tanks that are tall and thin, you could find space for one in a corner of your plot. The better (read more $$$) pumps are very quiet and there's no real maintenance needed.

 

I'm not convinced about underground tanks, the slightest hint of flooding and they fill with muddy water just when you really need them.

 

For the underground diy-ing I was thinking about 200 liter to cover the days without water.

 

Balcony, currently not a balcony but it will be.

It is now a roof on top of the shower/kitchen and will be replaced. The bedroom on the top floor is going to be extended and a corner left open as outside space.

Last year the foundation of the outer wall where the shower/kitchen is built, 'renewed' (eg, digged under the wall all along the wall and concrete poured.)

Both corners has concrete with rebar and the roof is iron.

I will put picture of the model that I made a few years ago in the next post.

 

If balcony option: then either the round blue tank or the beige tank  (with 3/4 letter brandname, forgot which one that was. It has embosed structure)

 

[Crossy]

200L isn't a very big tank, I would look at 4-500L minimum wherever you put it.

 

The blue tanks are not necessarily opaque to UV and you'll get a lovely green growth going on, the heavier ones are (at least theoretically) opaque to UV and shouldn't get green, it's still wise to circulate the water mind (use some and let it re-fill).

 

I was thinking something like this https://www.homepro.co.th/p/1019260 only 60cm diameter tuck it away in a corner ???? (I think I've seen some even slimmer ones but don't see them online)

 

We have a 2,400L tank and all our water goes through it, pumped to the house, the mains pressure tends to be just enough to fill the tank.

 

[uncleP]

I have a 1200L water tank under my porch. No problems at all as long as it has a footing. Have to clean it out occasionally but you should do that with every  tank. Make it big enough so a thai guy can get inside to clean ????

[Metropolitian]

The floors are aligned.

 

        

In the picture with the sketch, you can see the blue tank hiding behind the room extension.

 

[Metropolitian]

16 minutes ago, Crossy said:

200L isn't a very big tank, I would look at 4-500L minimum wherever you put it.

For the balcony the construction would (still) be the limiting factor.

But as said the foundation, and the vertical construction in the corners can have it.

Underground, the space that can be digged. 

For that I would think 200l minimum (two big buckets) pure for emergency cases eg. for plants, bum and ricepot.

 

16 minutes ago, Crossy said:

The blue tanks are not necessarily opaque to UV and you'll get a lovely green growth going on, the heavier ones are (at least theoretically) opaque to UV and shouldn't get green, it's still wise to circulate the water mind (use some and let it re-fill).

Good to know about the blue tanks, the same blue material as the ICE cubes crats right?

Yes I had re-filling in mind ,  quote: "pump only would be used on time of emergency or refreshing."  refreshing monthly to keep the water fresh as possible.

 

''balcony'' is facing north, only get sun light there during northern hemisphere summer which is about 4.5 months a year.

 

16 minutes ago, Crossy said:

I was thinking something like this https://www.homepro.co.th/p/1019260 only 60cm diameter tuck it away in a corner ???? (I think I've seen some even slimmer ones but don't see them online)

W-A-V-E... 4 letters.. check .. embossed casing.. check???? you got the one I have on my mind for the balcony, I have seen these in different colors.

 

[Metropolitian]

14 minutes ago, uncleP said:

I have a 1200L water tank under my porch. No problems at all as long as it has a footing. Have to clean it out occasionally but you should do that with every  tank. Make it big enough so a thai guy can get inside to clean ????

Did the tank came there before the porch? 

I will send my 5ft missus doing the cleaning in mine, as she is using the shower the most. ????

[Crossy]

19 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

The floors are aligned.

In the picture with the sketch, you can see the blue tank hiding behind the room extension.

 

OMG, he really does live in a cardboard box!

 

 

[Crossy]

If you go for the balcony / room extension I may be tempted to wall in to the edges and put the tank effectively IN the room.

 

A nice cupboard round it and you have the best use of the roof and available space.

 

[Metropolitian]

35 minutes ago, Crossy said:

200L isn't a very big tank,

Had these dimension on mind when I was looking to those black buckets that you can get at Tesco for 120-200thb which are 80 liters.

But they are round.

 

If I would get my hand on an cube say 1x1x1 meter, then that would theoretically be 1000liters.

Not impossible I think, maybe a big ice-cube crat and dig it underground. Removable tiling, maintenance cleaning once a year as the top can be lifted... ideas ideas...
 

Underground - DIY.
Balcony - Prefab tank, like the WAVE one.

[Crossy]

Just now, Metropolitian said:

Not impossible I think, maybe a big ice-cube crat and dig it underground.

 

1m3 "square" plastic containers (often with a cage) are readily available from the places that sell oil drums and the like, check what's been in it in the past.

[Metropolitian]

19 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

OMG, he really does live in a cardboard box!

  <YOUTUBE VIDEO>

Despite my movie knowledge I have never seen Marty with John along with Graham and Tim in one scene.

I totally missed out the existence of 'At Last the 1948 show' being in the pre-age of Monty P.

Good one and bookmarked.

 

[Metropolitian]

Ok, I think i will go for both solutions.

 

The main focus is on the  'balcony' which will happen around the middle of this year.

The wall is not easy to reach now from outside, as now there is construction in process at that side and when that is finished and the green dustscreen removed I will ask for right of way to realize the extension. We have the luck that the back is accessible by road and not private property.

If the current situation (c-19)  goes well then I will attend an expo (with homepro) next month and pickorder a tank for that.

 

And the project for the porch/patio underground will be 'whenever the change come' , that said; when I have found an container (tip of the plastic square container is a good one) or another option.

Then that altogether with earthing rod, underground tubes for electric, data and water before tiling it all over again.

 

There is still another thing I haven't mentioned before, I have a plan on paper here to put a barrel (those blue with lid) on the attic just above the shower which will be filled when there's enough pressure or aided with a little pump powered by a small solar panel and controlled by a floating ball switch.

And directly under it a nice valve and big shower head which currently are in use at the front, all items are already here except for the barrel that I planned to buy from a road-seller not so long ago and I didn't see the seller anymore but he sold them from his pickup under the tollway nearby every week, so another thing to blame the c19 for. ????

 

 

[canopy]

For heavens sake, put in a 2000L tank and use a float valve and demand pump so it's your water supply and be done with it. You won't regret it. When the water supply is low or off it works. When you need to water things, it works. When you need a 2nd floor shower, it works. If the water is out for a long period you can have a truck or even rainwater pour water in it and everything works. Set the low level of the float to be the emergency 200L reserve you want. It's such a simple, commonplace system. No power? Simple, plug in a generator and presto your house and water supply are all in good working order as usual.

 

I like underground--no eyesore, no views blocked, no space taken. Just need an access hatch. Put the demand pump underground as well so it is completely quiet and takes up no usable space nor degrades appearances anywhere. Also less of a theft magnet. Concrete rings are a simple, easy solution for this. And for sure choose a good brand demand pump like grundfos that don't make that annoying high pitched whining noise.

 

[VocalNeal]

15 hours ago, Metropolitian said:

which will be filled when there's enough pressure

Before you start anything have you verified the pressure on the second floor during the "good" times. No good buying a tall thin tank if the pressure is not enough to fill it. You can do this with your existing hosepipe of with some cheapo clear plastic tube. 

Usually tanks fill from the top.

[Metropolitian]

UPDATE: The blue barrel arrived today, it was a preorder and was said to be delivered next month but in the morning they called it was on the way.

 

Will use it at the rain spout for watering the plants and cleaning the front (we have dogs).

It's a 150 liter and came with a top and metal ring.

Price was 570 inclusive delivery.

Second hand but clean and no scratches and dents.

 

 

 

For the drinking water, I have my eyes already on the wave (and DOS) tanks 500 liter for on the balcony but I saw those and was thinking the 300 liter for in the top, gravity then could supply water for the shower and faucets in the nights.

It would then weigh 350 kilogram at max, equals 4 people. The attic can have that.

What do you think? Is the Safe 'safe' to use? It says it's food-grade in the ad.

300l 1360b, 500l 1700b, ..

 

 

[Metropolitian]

On 4/22/2020 at 8:19 AM, VocalNeal said:

Before you start anything have you verified the pressure on the second floor during the "good" times. No good buying a tall thin tank if the pressure is not enough to fill it. You can do this with your existing hosepipe of with some cheapo clear plastic tube. 

Usually tanks fill from the top.

In the evening after 23.01 the water pressure drops and only 1 meter from the floor (at the 2nd floor that is) water comes trough. If the shower head is back on the wall, I can see the water level drop. (shower head is transparent).

During the day, water easily get to the attic, even up to the rooftop.

[CGW]

On 4/21/2020 at 12:13 PM, Crossy said:

OMG, he really does live in a cardboard box!

He's lucky! blessed............

[canopy]

9 hours ago, Metropolitian said:

It would then weigh 350 kilogram at max

In Thailand floors are often designed to safely support 200kg/sqm. Sub standard construction and attics could be far less. Wouldn't be surprised to see some sagging and cracks appear as time goes by when you start overloading the balcony and attic.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

7 minutes ago, Arjen said:

Those blue PE tanks are not closed for light. It is not dark inside. So you will face algae growth.

 

Arjen.

Not necessarily. We have 2 blue tanks that have just been emptied and moved after about 10 years outside. Neither of them had algae inside.

[Metropolitian]

14 hours ago, CGW said:

He's lucky! blessed............

Absolutely, I am able to take my home and RCV with me, and go everywhere on the planet, by plane. Can you?

 

.. well not now but it's good here in Thailand so why leave and the RCV can go in the bus saving on tapes 555

[Metropolitian]

5 hours ago, canopy said:

In Thailand floors are often designed to safely support 200kg/sqm. Sub standard construction and attics could be far less. Wouldn't be surprised to see some sagging and cracks appear as time goes by when you start overloading the balcony and attic.

 

Good to know, our home is built 'substandard' that I know for sure.

The area (point of pressure) are spread out here, in fact it will be standing a few dm from the construction pilar and fixed to the wall that has iron frame (roof).

 

I can always make a system that the tank wouldn't be filled with more than 200 or any number liter instead of the 300. (sensors and electronic valves)

 

1 hour ago, Arjen said:

Those blue PE tanks are not closed for light. It is not dark inside. So you will face algae growth.

 

Which is true for the blue barrel that I have ordered for the rain water, it's only one layer and sits in the sun.

Had the same experience with the barrel (which was red) in my old country, but that water was quiet for a while and only used for watering the plants.

 

But the 'SAFE' -drinkingwater- tanks and in shadow ?

 

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Not necessarily. We have 2 blue tanks that have just been emptied and moved after about 10 years outside. Neither of them had algae inside.

Good to hear. Were they standing in the shadow or full sun?

 

 

 

Either way, for outside (the balcony or under the porch) I am not going to use the blue (Safe) one but tinnier(and taller) and more eye-friendly creme or greenish.

The blue is for inside or underfloor and out of sight.

[AtlasAus]

On 4/21/2020 at 11:37 AM, Crossy said:

The blue tanks are not necessarily opaque to UV and you'll get a lovely green growth going on, the heavier ones are (at least theoretically) opaque to UV and shouldn't get green, it's still wise to circulate the water mind (use some and let it re-fill).

 

This is exactly what has happened to our blue tank.. We are use it for washing, showers etc .... 

 

How do you clean it ? I am a city boy, never had to worry about such things before ???? 

 

[bankruatsteve]

12 minutes ago, AtlasAus said:

How do you clean it ? I am a city boy, never had to worry about such things before

A power washer if you have one.  Diluted bleach and a brush if not.  

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, Metropolitian said:

6 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Not necessarily. We have 2 blue tanks that have just been emptied and moved after about 10 years outside. Neither of them had algae inside.

Good to hear. Were they standing in the shadow or full sun?

50/50

[HashBrownHarry]

On 4/21/2020 at 12:17 PM, Crossy said:

 

1m3 "square" plastic containers (often with a cage) are readily available from the places that sell oil drums and the like, check what's been in it in the past.

Are you talking about IBC's?

 

Any idea what the cost of them is?

 

[Crossy]

Yes, these chaps, sadly I've never actually bought one myself so I've no idea what they go for here.

[Metropolitian]

5 hours ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Are you talking about IBC's?

 

Any idea what the cost of them is?

 

The company where I bought the blue barrels sells those square tanks with frame too.

Will contact them asking for the price and when I got reply will put it here with the contact details.