Pompeo says 'significant' evidence new coronavirus emerged from Chinese lab

[Phil McCaverty]

5 minutes ago, rabas said:

Fox News has reported in recent weeks of an emerging confidence in the United States that the coronavirus accidentally emerged from a biosecurity lab in Wuhan, the initial epicenter of the outbreak. In the aftermath, the news outlet reported, Beijing worked to cover up the mishap by blaming a nearby wet market.

As I said "as reported by the alt right media". Nobody outside the US sees Fox News as anything but a comedy channel.

 

from your link:

 

"Australia, the United Kingdom, and Canada have pointedly not backed up America’s apparent surety that the novel coronavirus was either deliberately or accidentally leaked from a Chinese lab."

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Phil McCaverty

[frenetic]

3 minutes ago, rabas said:

Discussion of the 5 eyes report by ForeignPolicy.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/04/coronavirus-lab-leak-trump-five-eyes/

Your link goes to this:

Key U.S. Allies Skeptical of Trump’s Coronavirus Lab Leak Claims

Five Eyes members and intelligence analysts push back against attempts to pin the virus on Chinese biosafety mistakes.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/04/coronavirus-lab-leak-trump-five-eyes/

[rkidlad]

4 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

ok, we don't like their regime.  we can agree they have an authoritarian surveillance state without the freedoms we enjoy.

 

we can argue that implies they shouldn't be trusted, but that doesn't prove they're lying.  in order to prove they're lying, we have to, you know, prove it.

 

there will be consequences, but we need to be careful, and act when we can show some evidence.  the chinese are not going to submit easily, trump has no patience, and his advisers in my opintion have too much influence over him.

 

launching cruise missiles before the investigation has even begun won't work this time.  we've finally got an adversary that can shoot back.  sanctions and tariffs won't work, possibly ever, definitely not within the time constraints of the election cycle.  trump will have no option left but massive provocation to show his manliness to the voters. 

 

expect more freedom of navigation runs through the south china sea, bomber overflights, recon flights accidentally entering chinese airspace.  china will protest but won't take the bait, so trump will have to escalate, especially if the poll numbers are looking poorly in late august.  i can see him recognizing taiwan independence.  china will take the bait.

 

 

Censoring information is lying. 

[rkidlad]

4 minutes ago, frenetic said:

Considering that Eric Loh said that "US is a democratic country with a President that is acting like President Xi." it hardly seems he's ignoring the role China played in this pandemic. 

Well, I believe this is a thread about the origins of the virus. Comparing Trump to Xi as a way of saying any reports from the US intelligence can’t be trusted seems to be an irony lost on many. 

[Phil McCaverty]

3 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Censoring information is lying. 

So is disguising a wish as a fact.

[Phil McCaverty]

1 minute ago, rkidlad said:

Well, I believe this is a thread about the origins of the virus. Comparing Trump to Xi as a way of saying any reports from the US intelligence can’t be trusted seems to be an irony lost on many. 

Not our words.

 

Australia, the United Kingdom, and Canada have pointedly not backed up America’s apparent surety that the novel coronavirus was either deliberately or accidentally leaked from a Chinese lab. 

[ChouDoufu]

2 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Censoring information is lying. 

hard to argue with that!

 

the bad guys don't have freedom of the press = my unsubstantiated propaganda must be true.

[rkidlad]

1 minute ago, Phil McCaverty said:

So is disguising a wish as a fact.

What on earth does that have to do with anything I’ve said? I want to see an independent investigation into the origins of the virus. I don’t see why this is so controversial. 

[frenetic]

5 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Well, I believe this is a thread about the origins of the virus. Comparing Trump to Xi as a way of saying any reports from the US intelligence can’t be trusted seems to be an irony lost on many. 

What he was saying is that Trump's version of intelligence reports can't be trusted. We know this because the USA is a relatively open society. 

[Phil McCaverty]

Just now, rkidlad said:

What on earth does that have to do with anything I’ve said? I want to see an independent investigation into the origins of the virus. I don’t see why this is so controversial. 

Pompeo has carried out an investigation and is now trumpeting what he wishes to be true as a fact. All part of the propaganda war. The CIA are world leaders in propaganda through lies and deception.

[rkidlad]

3 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

hard to argue with that!

 

the bad guys don't have freedom of the press = my unsubstantiated propaganda must be true.

Yes, me asking for an independent investigation is now propaganda. Questions in the search for truth = lies........apparently. 

[frenetic]

1 minute ago, rkidlad said:

Yes, me asking for an independent investigation is now propaganda. Questions in the search for truth = lies........apparently. 

And who would conduct this independent investigation?

[rkidlad]

2 minutes ago, frenetic said:

What he was saying is that Trump's version of intelligence reports can't be trusted. We know this because the USA is a relatively open society. 

So don’t believe them. Go online and tell the world you don’t believe them. There’ll be zero consequences for this. But be careful in saying you don’t believe the CCP’s version of events. There can be grave consequences for that. 
 

All I’m asking for in an independent investigation. 

[rkidlad]

4 minutes ago, Phil McCaverty said:

Pompeo has carried out an investigation and is now trumpeting what he wishes to be true as a fact. All part of the propaganda war. The CIA are world leaders in propaganda through lies and deception.

I didn’t say they weren’t. You seem to be conflating a massive distrust for the CCP with an unconditional belief in all things that come out of the White House. 

[rkidlad]

4 minutes ago, frenetic said:

And who would conduct this independent investigation?

Independent bodies from around the world including ones from China. I assume China has independent bodies, right? 

[frenetic]

Just now, rkidlad said:

Independent bodies from around the world including ones from China. I assume China has independent bodies, right? 

Given that the political right widely distrusts and dismisses the results of scientific research that conflicts with their beliefs, how is this going to be possible? Who gets to appoint the members? 

[Phil McCaverty]

6 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

I didn’t say they weren’t. You seem to be conflating a massive distrust for the CCP with an unconditional belief in all things that come out of the White House. 

I mistrust both equally. However, only the White House is going with the lab theory. Most other governments are happy with the fact that it was transmitted to man by an animal, highly likely from the Wuhan wet market. Unfortunately the facts don't suit Trump's propaganda war. But hey, when have the facts ever got in the way of a good propaganda war?

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Phil McCaverty

[rkidlad]

3 minutes ago, frenetic said:

Given that the political right widely distrusts and dismisses the results of scientific research that conflicts with their beliefs, how is this going to be possible? Who gets to appoint the members? 

Don’t worry then. If it’s too hard a task to employ independent scientists to conduct research using real data and evidence based off scientific means because some people won’t believe it - forget it. 
 

Let’s just hope there won’t be a repeat of 2003 and 2019. Fingers crossed!

[Phil McCaverty]

1 minute ago, rkidlad said:

You keep referring to Pompeo and the like as if this is a narrative I’ve bought into. I’ve never once stated I believe this report.
 

From the beginning, I’ve only ever said this virus originated in Wuhan. Something the CCP were quick to confirm at the beginning of all of this. We don’t know it’s exact origins, so call me crazy, but I’d like to know. I’m kinda in the camp of crazy people who want to find the exact origins and make sure this doesn’t happen again. 

Fine. We're all with you on that. For now just take solace in the fact that wherever it did come from it didn't come from the Wuhan lab. The other 4 of the "5 Is" have investigated it and concluded that that theory is nonsense.

[rkidlad]

6 minutes ago, Phil McCaverty said:

I mistrust both equally. However, only the White House is going with the lab theory. Most other governments are happy with the fact that it was transmitted to man by an animal, highly likely from the Wuhan wet market. Unfortunately the facts don't suit Trump's propaganda war. But hey, when have the facts ever got in the way of a good propaganda war?

 

 

Again, you’re arguing a point I never made. You’re assuming by me asking for an independent investigation that I believe the lab theory. No, I don’t know exactly where it came from. Seems no one does for sure. That’s why an investigation is so important. 

[Eric Loh]

19 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Well, I believe this is a thread about the origins of the virus. Comparing Trump to Xi as a way of saying any reports from the US intelligence can’t be trusted seems to be an irony lost on many. 

Question of the virus origin was projected as aggressive investigation of wrongdoing by US and is seen by China as political. It should be a science base investigation and not a political base investigation. The trade threats are also not helpful for a super power like China to relent and submit. Trump flip flopping on his relationship with Xi is seen as weak and not taken seriously. Trump’s innuendos will never get China cooperation for an investigation. However the investigation is required for medical science and future prevention of pandemic. It must be done but not by coercion. 

[Phil McCaverty]

Just now, rkidlad said:

Again, you’re arguing a point I never made. You’re assuming by me asking for an independent investigation that I believe the lab theory. No, I don’t know exactly where it came from. Seems no one does for sure. That’s why an investigation is so important. 

This thread concerns Pompeo's announcement that he had significant evidence that the virus eminated from the Wuhan lab, which is clearly a lie. If you want to broaden the discussion out to exactly where it did come from I suggest you start a new topic.

[rkidlad]

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Question of the virus origin was projected as aggressive investigation of wrongdoing by US and is seen by China as political. It should be a science base investigation and not a political base investigation. The trade threats are also not helpful for a super power like China to relent and submit. Trump flip flopping on his relationship with Xi is seen as weak and not taken seriously. Trump’s innuendos will never get China cooperation for an investigation. However the investigation is required for medical science and future prevention of pandemic. It must be done but not by coercion. 

Yes, I just want an investigation. That’s all I’ve asked for. Get as many countries involved including China. Just get it done. 

[rabas]

37 minutes ago, Phil McCaverty said:

As I said "as reported by the alt right media". Nobody outside the US sees Fox News as anything but a comedy channel.

Fox?  My reference was from Foreign Policy Magazine, one of the more professional and least biased sources of information on international affairs.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/?s=foreignpolicy.com

[rkidlad]

2 minutes ago, Phil McCaverty said:

This thread concerns Pompeo's announcement that he had significant evidence that the virus eminated from the Wuhan lab, which is clearly a lie. If you want to broaden the discussion out to exactly where it did come from I suggest you start a new topic.

Or, stop assuming and telling me what’s true and false counter to something I never once said. 
 

This thread is about Pompeo saying it came from a lab. I said let’s have an independent investigation, then. This to many who don’t bother to read comments properly meant I believe him. Again, people are going to need to have two thoughts in their head at the same time. 

[Mavideol]

the Chinese nasty and very aggressive "Wolf Warriors" are answering back

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-04-26/china-s-wolf-warrior-officials-herald-the-end-of-diplomacy

 

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-05-04/wolf-warrior-diplomats-defend-china-handling-coronavirus

‘Put on a mask and shut up’: China’s new ‘Wolf Warriors’ spread hoaxes and attack a world of critics

https://asiatimes.com/2020/04/wolf-warriors-twitter-trolls-and-chinas-virus-lies/

Wolf warriors, Twitter trolls and China’s virus ‘lies’

China has continued to run a global disinformation campaign to deflect blame for the outbreak of the pandemic and improve its international image. Both overt and covert tactics have been observed,” the original version said.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Mavideol

[frenetic]

9 minutes ago, rabas said:

Fox?  My reference was from Foreign Policy Magazine, one of the more professional and least biased sources of information on international affairs.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/?s=foreignpolicy.com

And has been pointed out, that article undermines the point you thought you were making.

[Phil McCaverty]

55 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

 

Fox News has reported in recent weeks of an emerging confidence in the United States that the coronavirus accidentally emerged from a biosecurity lab in Wuhan, the initial epicenter of the outbreak. In the aftermath, the news outlet reported, Beijing worked to cover up the mishap by blaming a nearby wet market.

 

As I had suggested.

 

12 minutes ago, rabas said:

Fox?  My reference was from Foreign Policy Magazine, one of the more professional and least biased sources of information on international affairs.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/?s=foreignpolicy.com

 

[ChouDoufu]

1 minute ago, rkidlad said:

You keep referring to Pompeo and the like as if this is a narrative I’ve bought into. I’ve never once stated I believe this report.
 

From the beginning, I’ve only ever said this virus originated in Wuhan. Something the CCP were quick to confirm at the beginning of all of this. We don’t know it’s exact origins, so call me crazy, but I’d like to know. I’m kinda in the camp of crazy people who want to find the exact origins and make sure this doesn’t happen again. 

in that case, no need for us to go back through all the posts.  we agree.  there should be an investigation.  i apologize for any confusion.

 

but who (obviously not WHO, right) shall run it?  china has a united nations veto, and a strong enough military to ignore most threats.  they could certainly follow our model on how to deal with international inquiries into our behavior.

 

pompeo and trump claiming evidence where they may be none will not help get to the bottom of this.  we don't even know for sure if the virus did indeed originate in hubei.  it could have begun somewhere else in china, and was simply detected first in wuhan. 

 

i read this morning that health officials in france tested some old samples and found one positive result from late december.  assuming not a false positive, we need to find the link to china.  and we need to test more samples from more countries, from at least as far back as summer 2019.

 

bat**** propaganda trying to lead a political investigation into a predetermined conclusion won't get us there.  it could very well make things worse, as we will have cut off support for scientific investigations into the actual source.

 

trump has his "high certainty" and pompeo claims "significant evidence", yet nothing produce, nothing proved to the who, and not convincing to fauci.  these two are politicians heading into a no-longer easy election.  i'm afraid their version of an investigation may result in covering up the true source of the infection, but as politicians, i believe that's a price they're willing to pay.

 

 

[rkidlad]

2 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

in that case, no need for us to go back through all the posts.  we agree.  there should be an investigation.  i apologize for any confusion.

 

but who (obviously not WHO, right) shall run it?  china has a united nations veto, and a strong enough military to ignore most threats.  they could certainly follow our model on how to deal with international inquiries into our behavior.

 

pompeo and trump claiming evidence where they may be none will not help get to the bottom of this.  we don't even know for sure if the virus did indeed originate in hubei.  it could have begun somewhere else in china, and was simply detected first in wuhan. 

 

i read this morning that health officials in france tested some old samples and found one positive result from late december.  assuming not a false positive, we need to find the link to china.  and we need to test more samples from more countries, from at least as far back as summer 2019.

 

bat**** propaganda trying to lead a political investigation into a predetermined conclusion won't get us there.  it could very well make things worse, as we will have cut off support for scientific investigations into the actual source.

 

trump has his "high certainty" and pompeo claims "significant evidence", yet nothing produce, nothing proved to the who, and not convincing to fauci.  these two are politicians heading into a no-longer easy election.  i'm afraid their version of an investigation may result in covering up the true source of the infection, but as politicians, i believe that's a price they're willing to pay.

 

 

That’s China’s problem. If the virus came from a wet market in Wuhan as the CCP claimed at the beginning, they can worry about the dynamics of it all. They owe the world the truth. 
 

The onus is now on China.