Non-imm O extension - income letter instead of 400k in bank

[nowork114]

For the past few years I always used 400k in bank for extension, but since I work for an oversea company, my salary is paid in USD to FCD account in a Thai bank. Has anyone have experience with what documents are required? I can get a letter (statement) from bank where the name of my employer is listed as sender, but is there any other requirement for a letter from Embassy? 

 

[Tanoshi]

Your bank statements would need to prove regular monthly overseas transfers of 40K minimum.

Depending on your nationality, you could obtain an income letter from your Embassy providing it's open and offering that service.

If you can still use the 400K in the bank method, that would be my choice, at least for this year until the current crisis is resolved.

[JackThompson]

Be aware that some immigration offices will deny an income-based extension unless the income is from a "state pension" source.  Better to use 400K "in the bank" if possible, so that your income is not an issue.  If possible, I would not mention your income at all.

[Steelhammer]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Depending on your nationality, you could obtain an income letter from your Embassy providing it's open and offering that service.

I'm from Germany and my Embassy would give me an income letter. Is this enough for a one year extension or do I have to show a bank book as well?

[ubonjoe]

28 minutes ago, Steelhammer said:

I'm from Germany and my Embassy would give me an income letter. Is this enough for a one year extension or do I have to show a bank book as well?

No bank book would be needed. But immigration can ask for backup proof of your income.

[Tanoshi]

28 minutes ago, Steelhammer said:

I'm from Germany and my Embassy would give me an income letter. Is this enough for a one year extension or do I have to show a bank book as well?

Income letter from your German Embassy would be sufficient, but IO's can request additional documents to support your income claim.

[Steelhammer]

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

No bank book would be needed. But immigration can ask for backup proof of your income.

Backup proof? What would that be? Statements of account from Germany?

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Steelhammer said:

Backup proof? What would that be? Statements of account from Germany?

Back up proof would be from the source of you income. Bank statements would be enough. It can also be a pension statement.

[Steelhammer]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Back up proof would be from the source of you income. Bank statements would be enough. It can also be a pension statement.

Thank you.

The problem is the time. If I try a one year extension I have to apply for it before 22nd May. Otherwise I'm on overstay, right? The amnesty until 31st July has nothing to do with that, correct?

 

Because I have to wait for a statement from my accountant in Germany. And then need the Certificate from the German Embassy. So there is not much time left.

[Tanoshi]

16 hours ago, Steelhammer said:

Because I have to wait for a statement from my accountant in Germany.

I doubt Immigration would either want or understand financial statements prepared by an accountant.

If they request anything, it's usually a statement from a Pension provider. i.e. The source of your income.

[Steelhammer]

7 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I doubt Immigration would either want or understand financial statements prepared by an accountant.

If they request anything, it's usually a statement from a Pension provider. i.e. The source of your income.

I have asked the Embassy and they accept an original letter from my accountant.

 

I have just seen that you were talking about immigration. I thougt a Certificate from the Embassy is all what the immigration need. Not?

Edited May 6, 2020 by Steelhammer

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, Steelhammer said:

I have asked the Embassy and they accept an original letter from my accountant.

Your Embassy and Immigration are two different entities.

If Immigration request additional documentation as proof of income, from my experience it's always been in the form of a letter/statement from the source of the income.

 

Immigration may just accept your Embassy Income letter without requesting any additional proof.

You won't know until you try and if they do request additional documentation, they will advise what is and what is not acceptable.

[Otter4]

And what if your Embassy does not issue a verification letter. UK/USA/Australia/Denmark).  Is 400k  in the Thai bank enough +  12 month statements of say 40k per month as proof, + Original Pension letters from provider (Govt/Private). ?

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Otter4 said:

And what if your Embassy does not issue a verification letter. UK/USA/Australia/Denmark).  Is 400k  in the Thai bank enough +  12 month statements of say 40k per month as proof, + Original Pension letters from provider (Govt/Private). ?

That would be enough for a extension of stay based upon retirement using a combination of income and money in the bank.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Steelhammer said:

I have asked the Embassy and they accept an original letter from my accountant.

 

I have just seen that you were talking about immigration. I thougt a Certificate from the Embassy is all what the immigration need. Not?

That depends on which office; they all make up their own rules. 

 

I was denied a Non-O extension based on marraige to a Thai, with an Embassy-Letter PLUS a Thai Bank-book showing the clearly-coded international deposits (well in exccess of the minimum).   They wanted to see "Proof the Income was from a State Pension" source. 

 

At another office, they accepted the income docs, but blocked my legit-application with "unobtanium" landlord-docs which were completely irrelevant - and when I supplied those, they demanded the landlord go to an amphur to get newer copies (a short-trip from his residence in Europe). 

 

The only way to find out what a particular office uses to block Non-Agent-Envelope-Money extensions, is to apply for the extension and find out.

Edited May 6, 2020 by JackThompson

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, Steelhammer said:

I have just seen that you were talking about immigration. I thougt a Certificate from the Embassy is all what the immigration need. Not?

The Police orders list the minimum requirements.

An office or officer can always request additional proof of your finances using his powers of discretion.

[Max69xl]

23 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Your bank statements would need to prove regular monthly overseas transfers of 40K minimum.

Depending on your nationality, you could obtain an income letter from your Embassy providing it's open and offering that service.

If you can still use the 400K in the bank method, that would be my choice, at least for this year until the current crisis is resolved.

When married, the financial requirement when having an income is an average of 40k/month (or 400k in the bank). Not at least 40k/month. He can use the income letter from his embassy/consulate, which will make it really easy.

[Tanoshi]

35 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

When married, the financial requirement when having an income is an average of 40k/month (or 400k in the bank). Not at least 40k/month.

I disagree.

The order states 'throughout the year, an average income is not less than 40,000 baht monthly.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

The Police orders list the minimum requirements.

An office or officer can always request additional proof of your finances using his powers of discretion.

But they can also "skip" the minimum requirements - just as they regularly skip "money seasoning" for agent-envelope applications. 

 

Therefore, there Are No Official Requirements at all - just "general guidelines," made to look like "official requirements," so as to provide cover for a racket which infiltrated and subsumed what was once a legitimate govt agency serving a useful function.

 

3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

I disagree.

The order states 'throughout the year, an average income is not less than 40,000 baht monthly.

The word "average" should be absent, if it is a hard-minimum for every month.  Average would mean 35K one month, and 45K the next, would be OK. 

 

But, of course, we know what is written down as "requirements" have no little meaning in practice.  Just like "2 months seasoning" really means 3 or 4, after they add-on the "under consideration" time.  These statements "mean" whatever the IO you talk to and his boss decide it does at that moment.

Edited May 6, 2020 by JackThompson

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

10 hours ago, JackThompson said:

"unobtanium" landlord-docs which were completely irrelevant

Haha. I just did my TM30. Supposedly not a big deal. About two years ago I just needed the form. Then later, the landlord's tabien baan and ID card. Now they didn't like those. The landlord had to dig up his deed to the condo.

[timendres]

On 5/5/2020 at 3:27 PM, JackThompson said:

Be aware that some immigration offices will deny an income-based extension unless the income is from a "state pension" source.  Better to use 400K "in the bank" if possible, so that your income is not an issue.  If possible, I would not mention your income at all.

Does that not apply only in the case of those applying for an extension based on retirement. Since the OP mentions 400k, I believe he is applying for an extension based on marriage to a Thai national.

[timendres]

15 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Your Embassy and Immigration are two different entities.

If Immigration request additional documentation as proof of income, from my experience it's always been in the form of a letter/statement from the source of the income.

Years ago (2010), when I was applying for an extension based on marriage, I provided a letter from my employer to confirm my income, and this was accepted at Chaeng Wattana. It needed to be on company letterhead, with my employer's signature, in original form.

[Peter Denis]

18 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

I disagree.

The order states 'throughout the year, an average income is not less than 40,000 baht monthly.

Do you mean that the word 'average' in the PoliceOrder is misleading and that it has to be at least 40K every month?

I recall some posts that stated that the 'average' has been added to account for those on a marriage-extension that are doing seasonal work, and of which the income may vary widely from month to month.

 

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

Do you mean that the word 'average' in the PoliceOrder is misleading and that it has to be at least 40K every month?

I recall some posts that stated that the 'average' has been added to account for those on a marriage-extension that are doing seasonal work, and of which the income may vary widely from month to month.

 

The quote was from order 138-2557 section 2.18 (marriage)

20 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

The order states 'throughout the year, an average income is not less than 40,000 baht monthly.

The average relates to the annual income (throughout the year) but the monthly income must not be less than 40,OOO baht. That is how most Immigration offices would read it.

 

Some have quarterly pensions, or receive interest, dividend payment annually.

Whilst their nett monthly income may be less than 40K, their nett annual income allows them to transfer the required 40K.

 

It was possibly worded as such from the form of Embassy Income letters received.

i.e. It was fairly standard for an Embassy to take your gross annual income and divide by 12 and therefore produce an Income letter stating both annual income and average monthly income.

If that average monthly income came below 40K the application would be refused.

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, timendres said:

Does that not apply only in the case of those applying for an extension based on retirement. Since the OP mentions 400k, I believe he is applying for an extension based on marriage to a Thai national.

Yes - so was I - and denied because my income was not a "state pension." 

 

9 hours ago, timendres said:

Years ago (2010), when I was applying for an extension based on marriage, I provided a letter from my employer to confirm my income, and this was accepted at Chaeng Wattana. It needed to be on company letterhead, with my employer's signature, in original form.

Things have changed - tried this recently.  You now must supply your work-permit, the letter from the employer, plus ALL the documents needed to get the work-permit (DBD doc, etc), plus tax-docs.  All must be orginals.  Immigration hate any foreigners staying here long-term who don't pay "tribute" through agents, so make things as difficult as possible for us. 

 

My employer decided it was easier to pay me on-the-clock for 4 visa-runs a year, than to run Immigration's gauntlet.  My wife was happy with this result, as she doesn't have to deal with those abusive IOs ever again.  I don't care what they say, since I know what they are - would be federal prison-innmates in my country - but it makes her sad.

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The quote was from order 138-2557 section 2.18 (marriage)

Police order 327/2557 "Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien’s Application
for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand" states this.

"(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year."

That means if you have an annual income of at least 480k baht for 12 months it should be accepted.

[JackThompson]

25 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The average relates to the annual income (throughout the year) but the monthly income must not be less than 40,OOO baht. That is how most Immigration offices would read it.

Average and Minimum are mutually-exclusive.    Ok, so 30K one month and 50K the next would be fine. But it's not.  People with 13 payment per-year pensions have reported being denied extensions by ignoring the word "average."

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Police order 327/2557 "Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien’s Application
for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand" states this.

"(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year."

That means if you have an annual income of at least 480k baht for 12 months it should be accepted.

When the UK, US and Australian Embassies stopped issuing Income letters, Immigration issued order 138-2557 as an amendment to 327-2557, allowing those who could no longer obtain Embassy Income letters to provide proof of income through international transfers into a Thai bank via bank passbooks/statements.

 

For the 3 nationalities concerned, when submitting proof of income Immigration use order 327-2557 and my personal experience is that they do not allow 'average' monthly incomes.

The minimum monthly transfer they look for is 40K.

 

Probably discrepancies across the board again with different interpretations by different offices, however I would never advise anyone it's OK or should be accepted. The likelihood is that it won't.

Whether it be laziness on the part of the IO who isn't prepared to add up 12 monthly variable amounts and divide by 12 to get an 'average' monthly income, I don't know, but invariably the onus is on you to provide clear detailed accounts of 40K per month.

 

If in doubt the definite answer will only come from your own Immigration office.

[john terry1001]

23 hours ago, JackThompson said:

That depends on which office; they all make up their own rules. 

 

I was denied a Non-O extension based on marraige to a Thai, with an Embassy-Letter PLUS a Thai Bank-book showing the clearly-coded international deposits (well in exccess of the minimum).   They wanted to see "Proof the Income was from a State Pension" source. 

 

At another office, they accepted the income docs

You have to go to your local Immigration Office to make your application and (as far as I'm aware) Chonburi is the only area that has two offices. And you definitely can't choose which one of those to go to, then change and go to the other one. 

 

So how were you able to go to two different offices to apply for your extension??

 

Are you talking about unrelated applications by two different people at different offices?? Or is it two applications of yours but made in different years where you've moved??

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

You have to go to your local Immigration Office to make your application and (as far as I'm aware) Chonburi is the only area that has two offices. And you definitely can't choose which one of those to go to, then change and go to the other one. 

 

So how were you able to go to two different offices to apply for your extension??

 

Are you talking about unrelated applications by two different people at different offices?? Or is it two applications of yours but made in different years where you've moved??

At different times, I have lived in 3 different Immigration jurisidictions.  Each office used a DIFFERENT way to deny my application to stay and support my Thai wife, to spite qualifying under all published rules.  That is why I have continued to use Non-O-ME Visas.