Non-imm O extension - income letter instead of 400k in bank

[Tanoshi]

30 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

"(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year."

That actually confirms what I stated.

The average relates to the annual income

Quote

earn an average annual income

The monthly income must be of

Quote

no less than Baht 40,000 per month

 

The original Thai script of 327-2557 doesn't have any commas.

The English translation places a comma after 'throughout the year,'

Change that comma to after 'through the year an average income,' and it gives it a meaning that can be read entirely differently.

[john terry1001]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

At different times, I have lived in 3 different Immigration jurisidictions.  Each office used a DIFFERENT way to deny my application to stay and support my Thai wife, to spite qualifying under all published rules.  That is why I have continued to use Non-O-ME Visas. 

Three different offices and covering three different years. Either your documentation is suspect ........... or you have a guilty looking face whenever you go to Immigration.   

 

Or the agents you use are <deleted>. Agents don't like doing marriage extensions anyway because the paperwork must be sent to a more senior regional IO for approval. 5555555555

[JackThompson]

22 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

Three different offices and covering three different years. Either your documentation is suspect ........... or you have a guilty looking face whenever you go to Immigration.   

 

Or the agents you use are <deleted>. Agents don't like doing marriage extensions anyway because the paperwork must be sent to a more senior regional IO for approval. 5555555555

You have it backwards.  If I had used an agent, I wouldn't have even needed to meet the published requrements.  Here's how they tried to force me to use an agent:

1) Jomtien: Landlord documents - have your landlord (a Thai) fly back from Europe, go to an Amphoe, and get a newer copy of the house-book you already have supplied.
2) Issan (specific office withheld): Sorry, but your income is not from a "state pension" source.  Your sworn (under felony perjury) embassy letter AND bank book showing the international-transfers is not enough.
3) Chang Wattana Bangkok: Sorry, but although you have a valid work permit, proof of "salary" deposits to your Thai account (bank-letter), letter from your employer, and copies of tax documents - we want your employer to RE-DO the entire document-runaround which they did to get your work-permit, supplying all originals from all the different government agencies.

[Andre0720]

23 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

The Police orders list the minimum requirements.

An office or officer can always request additional proof of your finances using his powers of discretion.

Has anyone ever seen such 'Power of discretion' used to simplify the life of a farang, based for example on ample proof of sufficient income, such as a 10 year history of getting a Non O-A visa from a Thai Embassy which has verified multiple times the income of the individual, his medical certificates, his police reports...

Authority is used mainly to limit the pleasure of people. Quite the synonym for this 'power of discretion' here.  

[timendres]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

12 hours ago, timendres said:

Does that not apply only in the case of those applying for an extension based on retirement. Since the OP mentions 400k, I believe he is applying for an extension based on marriage to a Thai national.

Yes - so was I - and denied because my income was not a "state pension." 

 

That is different, as my income was from a job.

 

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

12 hours ago, timendres said:

Years ago (2010), when I was applying for an extension based on marriage, I provided a letter from my employer to confirm my income, and this was accepted at Chaeng Wattana. It needed to be on company letterhead, with my employer's signature, in original form.

Things have changed - tried this recently.  You now must supply your work-permit, the letter from the employer, plus ALL the documents needed to get the work-permit (DBD doc, etc), plus tax-docs.  All must be orginals.  Immigration hate any foreigners staying here long-term who don't pay "tribute" through agents, so make things as difficult as possible for us. 

 

My employer decided it was easier to pay me on-the-clock for 4 visa-runs a year, than to run Immigration's gauntlet.  My wife was happy with this result, as she doesn't have to deal with those abusive IOs ever again.  I don't care what they say, since I know what they are - would be federal prison-innmates in my country - but it makes her sad.

 

Fascinating. My job was with an employer in the US, and I simply provided a one page letter from my boss. Sad to see thing getting so difficult.

[timendres]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

You have it backwards.  If I had used an agent, I wouldn't have even needed to meet the published requrements.  Here's how they tried to force me to use an agent:

1) Jomtien: Landlord documents - have your landlord (a Thai) fly back from Europe, go to an Amphoe, and get a newer copy of the house-book you already have supplied.
2) Issan (specific office withheld): Sorry, but your income is not from a "state pension" source.  Your sworn (under felony perjury) embassy letter AND bank book showing the international-transfers is not enough.
3) Chang Wattana Bangkok: Sorry, but although you have a valid work permit, proof of "salary" deposits to your Thai account (bank-letter), letter from your employer, and copies of tax documents - we want your employer to RE-DO the entire document-runaround which they did to get your work-permit, supplying all originals from all the different government agencies.

 

Correct. I use an agent. All published requirements are met. I am extending with a work permit.

I have never spent more than 5 minutes in front of an IO, and never had so much as a hint of a problem.

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, Andre0720 said:

Has anyone ever seen such 'Power of discretion' used to simplify the life of a farang, based for example on ample proof of sufficient income, such as a 10 year history of getting a Non O-A visa from a Thai Embassy which has verified multiple times the income of the individual, his medical certificates, his police reports...

Authority is used mainly to limit the pleasure of people. Quite the synonym for this 'power of discretion' here.  

Many times.

Since the UK, US and Australian Embassy stopped issue Income letters, I've witnessed them requesting all kinds of addition documents in addition to bank statements to those groups of citizens.

In fact an IO once stated 'you make life difficult for us, we make difficult for you'.

'Go back tell your Embassy'.

(The IO in question has been reported to regional office many times, even by Thais, but he still remains).

They simply hate trawling through income type bank statements.

The 400/800K in the bank all year round are a piece of cake for them.

[Falconator]

If we use TransferWise to transfer the monthly income, will the transfers always be coded as incoming international transfers?

 

TransferWise fees are much lower than conventional bank fees, so many of us would prefer to use TransferWise whenever possible.

[john terry1001]

1 hour ago, Falconator said:

If we use TransferWise to transfer the monthly income, will the transfers always be coded as incoming international transfers?

 

TransferWise fees are much lower than conventional bank fees, so many of us would prefer to use TransferWise whenever possible.

1. Transferwise uses three partner Thai banks. Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn Bank and TMB.

 

2. You must have an account at, and use one of those banks to transfer the money to. Using any other Thai bank will not result in a foreign/International transfer being recorded.

 

3. You should register that bank with TW as you preferred Thai bank.

 

4. When making your transfer you must use the 'funds for long term stay in Thailand' as your reason for transfer in the drop down box.

 

5. Following these guidelines, your transfer will arrive coded as an International transfer.

 

Bank holidays excepted, if you initiate a transfer before 9:00am Thai time on a Monday to Friday the transfer will arrive in your Thai account on the same day. If you initiate a transfer after 9:00am or at a weekend your transfer will arrive in your Thai account on the bank's next working day.

[hotandsticky]

4 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

1. Transferwise uses three partner Thai banks. Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn Bank and TMB.

 

2. You must have an account at, and use one of those banks to transfer the money to. Using any other Thai bank will not result in a foreign/International transfer being recorded.

 

3. You should register that bank with TW as you preferred Thai bank.

 

4. When making your transfer you must use the 'funds for long term stay in Thailand' as your reason for transfer in the drop down box.

 

5. Following these guidelines, your transfer will arrive coded as an International transfer.

 

Bank holidays excepted, if you initiate a transfer before 9:00am Thai time on a Monday to Friday the transfer will arrive in your Thai account on the same day. If you initiate a transfer after 9:00am or at a weekend your transfer will arrive in your Thai account on the bank's next working day.

 

 

Very good report - although your timings are a bit misleading.

 

 

I have instructed many transfers after 09:00 and they have been received in minutes..... 6 seconds being the record.

 

Weekend transfers are interesting because you can instruct a transfer 'after hours' and mark it "Pay later" and you will get (usually) 72 hours - until 06:59 on the Monday, or Tuesday, if a bank holiday intervenes. You can cancel the original instruction if rates move in your favour. This weekend I booked at 40.68 and on Tuesday the markets opened around 40.30.

[john terry1001]

I've just noticed from your other thread that you're from the US.

 

When using TW, if possible, use the 'push' method to transfer your money into the TW account. If using the (more popular in the US) pull method asking TW to pull the money from your US account involves the use of the ACH system and that can sometimes delay a transfer by a few days. 

[john terry1001]

16 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

I have instructed many transfers after 09:00 and they have been received in minutes..... 6 seconds being the record.

9:00am Thai time is just a guide that I've found will (almost) guarantee a same day transfer.

 

Like you I've seen transfers initiated after 9:00am that have still arrived same day but I've also seen many that have arrived next working day. I'm just suggesting that, if it's important that your transfer arrives the same dat then use 9:00am as a cut off point.

 

One other point, if using Bangkok bank, they will always update your account at (just after) 2:00pm Thai time, regardless of what time they actually receive the transfer.

I believe Kasikorn updates your account the moment they receive your transfer. Not sure about the timing for TMB.

Edited May 7, 2020 by john terry1001

[Falconator]

7 hours ago, timendres said:

 

Correct. I use an agent. All published requirements are met. I am extending with a work permit.

I have never spent more than 5 minutes in front of an IO, and never had so much as a hint of a problem.

How much do these agents charge?

[Falconator]

Can I confirm that:

Marriage visa - 400,000 baht deposit can come from anywhere, doesn't have to come from abroad

Retirement visa - 800,000 baht deposit can come from anywhere, doesn't have to come from abroad

 

Only monthly incomes of 40,000 baht (marriage) or 65,000 baht (retirement) need to come from abroad.

 

Am I correct?

 

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, timendres said:

That is different, as my income was from a job.

So was mine, for the last application-attempt. Previous were using overseas income.  I figured better to work for less, but get an income immigration would accept as legitimate.   It's why I was at CW - working a job in Bangkok.
 

8 hours ago, timendres said:

Fascinating. My job was with an employer in the US, and I simply provided a one page letter from my boss. Sad to see thing getting so difficult.

Not sure how you were able to get an extension based on working remotely. 
 

8 hours ago, timendres said:

Correct. I use an agent. All published requirements are met. I am extending with a work permit.

I have never spent more than 5 minutes in front of an IO, and never had so much as a hint of a problem.

I could not get an agent to do a Non-O family extension - though I understand some "lawyers" will do it for 30K+ Baht.  I don't even need the typical faked-money service they offer.  Evidently, the "2nd level" approver-IO (only needed if you support a family - not if retired) needs another, larger envelope.

 

I saw guys like you at CW when I was there - in/out in 5 mins, between "official" queue numbers, while I waited hours to "do the right thing," and be rebuffed.

 

6 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Since the UK, US and Australian Embassy stopped issue Income letters, I've witnessed them requesting all kinds of addition documents in addition to bank statements to those groups of citizens.

In fact an IO once stated 'you make life difficult for us, we make difficult for you'.

'Go back tell your Embassy'.

Never mind, it was Immigration who complained about the letters.  Aw, shucks, now you need an agent.  They love playing it both ways.

[JackThompson]

53 minutes ago, Falconator said:

Can I confirm that:

Marriage visa - 400,000 baht deposit can come from anywhere, doesn't have to come from abroad

Retirement visa - 800,000 baht deposit can come from anywhere, doesn't have to come from abroad

 

Only monthly incomes of 40,000 baht (marriage) or 65,000 baht (retirement) need to come from abroad.

 

Am I correct?

For the 1-year extension, you are correct.  For the initial "change of visa" Non-O stamp (90-days), the "show it came from abroad" comes into play.

[timendres]

33 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Quote

Fascinating. My job was with an employer in the US, and I simply provided a one page letter from my boss. Sad to see thing getting so difficult.

Not sure how you were able to get an extension based on working remotely. 

I was applying for an extension based on marriage, so not a problem with working, as long as it was not in Thailand. What is very clear is that 10 years ago, immigration was much more relaxed about the rules. There were no questions about my employment, since I was not working in Thailand. No questions about my working remotely in Thailand. Now that I think about it, this was also back when the US Embassy still issues income affidavits and immigration liked those.

 

35 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I saw guys like you at CW when I was there - in/out in 5 mins, between "official" queue numbers, while I waited hours to "do the right thing," and be rebuffed

I "do the right thing". My application is 100% legitimate with no "work arounds". And my agent arrives at 5am to get a good queue number, so there is no attempt to "cut in front" of anyone. The last renewal, in April 2020, this was not possible due to the changes to accommodate social distancing. So I simply waited outside until my agent called me when my queue number came up. I was in and out in 5 minutes, but spent an hour and a half waiting outside.

[mrfaroukh]

As long as I know the income letter or retirement letter for retirement visa should show income of at least 65000 Baht or 800 000 Baht in the bank. I show my income letter to Embassy get a letter in English and show it at immigration.

[JackThompson]

20 hours ago, timendres said:

I "do the right thing". My application is 100% legitimate with no "work arounds". And my agent arrives at 5am to get a good queue number, so there is no attempt to "cut in front" of anyone. The last renewal, in April 2020, this was not possible due to the changes to accommodate social distancing. So I simply waited outside until my agent called me when my queue number came up. I was in and out in 5 minutes, but spent an hour and a half waiting outside.

Not saying you were doing anything dodgy.  I tried to find an agent to allow for a successful application this year, and I also qualify under the published-rules.  Many good, qualifying applicants are forced to use immigration's agent-partners, while many others don't bother with the qualifications, as some agent-services make them unnecessary. 

 

Unfortunately, none I could find would take a non-o-marriage - only retirement, edu, etc - as the cost to handle the senior-IO puts the price outside their customer-base.  Some law-firms handle these now at CW, evidently - for a big payout.  But if I'm wrong on that, I'd appreciate a reference - could come in handy late next year.

Edited May 8, 2020 by JackThompson

[Tanoshi]

If you qualify under the published rules, there wouldn't be any need to use an agent.

You've already stated there was an issue with your landlords ID, so obviously you don't qualify under the published rules.