Flatten the Curve or Eliminate the Virus?

[chessman]

2 minutes ago, SMEinBangkok said:

At last, I understand the average person and average intellect....someone like you.

 

3 minutes ago, SMEinBangkok said:

At last, I understand the average person and average intellect....someone like you.

A very strong debating style. Call people stupid who you disagree with. You’ll go far.

[lkv]

2 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

That's excatly what I'm saying. Why is this so hard for some of you to comprehend?

And please pass on my regards to your mother; even though she did a lousy job teaching you empathy. 

Thank you so much for the warm wishes.

 

I did pass on the message to her, whilst she is happy that you care and she appreciates your concerns, she told me to tell you not to worry, as this is a flu virus part of the coronaviruses family, and we all have to go through it at some point, sooner or later.

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, SMEinBangkok said:

Sounds like something straight out of the Communist Manifesto....

 

If you had any real concern or empathy for the "masses", then you would go with the 99.96% of the world's population that's completely unaffected by this virus (that's a pretty big mass, right?).  But, you don't have any concern for anyone other than that fearful face that stares back at you everyday.

Does the face that stares back at you look anything like this? ???? or is it more ????. No. no I got it.............. it's this isn't it ????

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, SMEinBangkok said:

And to your limited understanding of human society, we can add passive-aggressive....haha!

 

Oh...is that more of your empathy for the masses?

Like most, normal, functioning members of society, I do have 'empathy for the masses' 

I'll make an exception for you though as you're just rude.

 

[runamok27]

On 5/8/2020 at 9:13 PM, 4MyEgo said:

I don't think I am missing the point, if hospital did get overwhelmed, more and more people would have been dying, including doctors and nurses who we need at the coalface.

Yes, you did miss the point. Flattening the curve was all about keeping the hospitals from being overwhelmed, which has happened everywhere except for Italy. This would eliminate the unnecessary deaths from not being able to treat everybody properly. We need to keep the curve flat, not drive it to zero because that, according to most experts is not really possible. So at this point opening up makes sense but we need to be careful not to allow any spikes in infections that will exceed our ability to properly treat the infected. Since most hospitals around the world have been stocking up their ability to handle an increased case load is much greater than before so it is pretty safe to open up now. They just have to carefully watch was is going on and not open up too much too fast.

[johnnybangkok]

2 hours ago, lkv said:

Thank you so much for the warm wishes.

 

I did pass on the message to her, whilst she is happy that you care and she appreciates your concerns, she told me to tell you not to worry, as this is a flu virus part of the coronaviruses family, and we all have to go through it at some point, sooner or later.

She called me too and thanked me for my concern. She also asked me to ask you not to visit.

Something about you being inconsiderate.

[lkv]

54 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Something about you being inconsiderate.

Yeah, millions of deaths from flu last year, and you cried for each and every one of them.

 

So I take it we're not having tea together, no?

Edited May 11, 2020 by lkv

[johnnybangkok]

9 hours ago, lkv said:

Yeah, millions of deaths from flu last year, and you cried for each and every one of them.

 

So I take it we're not having tea together, no?

“Millions of deaths from flu last year”? she also said you were prone to exaggeration. 
Happy to have tea together though. At a safe social distance of course. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/11/2020 at 11:42 PM, johnnybangkok said:

If you cannot adhere to the good of the masses over self-interest then I think it's you who should be living in the woods, far, far away from society. 

And as clearly stated many, many times, it is not fear that is driving my thoughts rather concern and empathy. Something you are obviously sorely lacking.

LOL. I gave up the opportunity to earn the really big bucks in the Aussie mines to become a nurse. I did that for decades. Did those that I sacrificed to save care- no. Did a grateful nation give me thanks and a big pension- no. What I got was bully managers and a low wage. If I could go back to when I decided to do it , would I do it again- never in a million years. Would I tell anyone else to do it- no way.

I had empathy by the bucket load when I started- not so much at the end.

You can keep your empathy- I'd rather have earned the big bucks and be living on a nice Thai beach right now.

 

PS. I didn't give it up sooner as I had to give it up to realise just how bad it was. I was pretty indoctrinated when I was doing it.

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/9/2020 at 2:13 AM, 4MyEgo said:

I don't think I am missing the point, if hospital did get overwhelmed, more and more people would have been dying, including doctors and nurses who we need at the coalface.

As on that did work as a nurse with real people, the term "coal face" has always annoyed me immensely. It's generally used by people that have never worked with sick people, and I never heard a real nurse use the term. Nurse managers are nurses that don't want to work with sick people, so I don't regard them as real nurses. Some of them like to talk about coal faces, but they don't get their hands dirty on coal or on sick people.

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As on that did work as a nurse with real people, the term "coal face" has always annoyed me immensely. It's generally used by people that have never worked with sick people, and I never heard a real nurse use the term. Nurse managers are nurses that don't want to work with sick people, so I don't regard them as real nurses. Some of them like to talk about coal faces, but they don't get their hands dirty on coal or on sick people.

It's a term that I always grew up with, and was predominantly used against managers, and higher up, e.g. they have never worked at the coal face so would know what it's like in the real world. Can't help you if the term displeases you, it's a saying like, Falang which displeases me, that said, it's out of my control as are many other sayings, names etc etc, but life is too short.....perhaps I should have used different words, like on the front line ?

[RJRS1301]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As on that did work as a nurse with real people, the term "coal face" has always annoyed me immensely. It's generally used by people that have never worked with sick people, and I never heard a real nurse use the term. Nurse managers are nurses that don't want to work with sick people, so I don't regard them as real nurses. Some of them like to talk about coal faces, but they don't get their hands dirty on coal or on sick people.

Nurse managers were once floor nurses , real nurses.

 

[johnnybangkok]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. I gave up the opportunity to earn the really big bucks in the Aussie mines to become a nurse. I did that for decades. Did those that I sacrificed to save care- no. Did a grateful nation give me thanks and a big pension- no. What I got was bully managers and a low wage. If I could go back to when I decided to do it , would I do it again- never in a million years. Would I tell anyone else to do it- no way.

I had empathy by the bucket load when I started- not so much at the end.

You can keep your empathy- I'd rather have earned the big bucks and be living on a nice Thai beach right now.

 

PS. I didn't give it up sooner as I had to give it up to realise just how bad it was. I was pretty indoctrinated when I was doing it.

 

I can't think of a single situation where a lack of empathy has benefitted a situation but I can think of several were no empathy has created problems - Nazis/Jews, Cambodian genocide, Rwanda etc.   

I'm sorry your own personal experiences have left you so bitter but you should maybe try not to project your own failings on to others who don't feel the same way. The world is a diverse place filled with happy and unhappy people but if we all felt the way you feel and gave up on our empathy, can you imagine just how unhappy it would soon become for us all? 

   

[sqwakvfr]

In my hometown, LA LA Land, mayor Eric Garcetti just ordered the city shutdown until at least August.  I do not know where he stands (flatten the curve or have a working vaccine).  I just read the National Football League has a contingency plan to have California Football teams(Rams, 49ers and Chargers) train, practice and play games either in Arizona or Las Vegas.  If he gets his way the 2nd largest city in the US will have been shutdown for almost five months.  The city of Los Angeles might just have to file for bankruptcy.  The metro Los Angeles area has had 33K infected  and almost 2k deaths.  But the population is almost 20 Million.  “The Cure might be worse than the problem”. 

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

It's a term that I always grew up with, and was predominantly used against managers, and higher up, e.g. they have never worked at the coal face so would know what it's like in the real world. Can't help you if the term displeases you, it's a saying like, Falang which displeases me, that said, it's out of my control as are many other sayings, names etc etc, but life is too short.....perhaps I should have used different words, like on the front line ?

I was just annoyed and venting, but don't expect anyone not to use it, as quite common.

I'd prefer just saying "working with patients".

There's a lot of BS in nursing. Years ago they tried to stop us saying patients and use clients instead. Luckily that was so scorned it never caught on.

Actually, if they took the BS out of nursing it might even become a job worth doing.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Nurse managers were once floor nurses , real nurses.

 

Yes, but they hated it so much they preferred to become managers and tell other people that did like their job how to do it.

It always amused me that when a newspaper had a photo of a hospital ward they always had the charge nurse front and center when they never went into the ward unless with the consultant.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

I can't think of a single situation where a lack of empathy has benefitted a situation but I can think of several were no empathy has created problems - Nazis/Jews, Cambodian genocide, Rwanda etc.   

I'm sorry your own personal experiences have left you so bitter but you should maybe try not to project your own failings on to others who don't feel the same way. The world is a diverse place filled with happy and unhappy people but if we all felt the way you feel and gave up on our empathy, can you imagine just how unhappy it would soon become for us all? 

   

It's a forum for all to contribute, within the rules. I haven't seen much happiness from you on your posts, but I don't tell you not to post.

 

I suggest you keep the personal insults to yourself. There are forum rules against that.

[Crazy Alex]

14 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

In my hometown, LA LA Land, mayor Eric Garcetti just ordered the city shutdown until at least August.  I do not know where he stands (flatten the curve or have a working vaccine).  I just read the National Football League has a contingency plan to have California Football teams(Rams, 49ers and Chargers) train, practice and play games either in Arizona or Las Vegas.  If he gets his way the 2nd largest city in the US will have been shutdown for almost five months.  The city of Los Angeles might just have to file for bankruptcy.  The metro Los Angeles area has had 33K infected  and almost 2k deaths.  But the population is almost 20 Million.  “The Cure might be worse than the problem”. 

So they're closing down for a disease that has killed 0.01% of their population. Pure insanity.

 

I have a feeling LA and other large cities and some states are using this to angle for a bailout.

[RJRS1301]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes, but they hated it so much they preferred to become managers and tell other people that did like their job how to do it.

It always amused me that when a newspaper had a photo of a hospital ward they always had the charge nurse front and center when they never went into the ward unless with the consultant.

No idea where you nursed, but generally nurse mangers are well qualified with years of experience, often with post grad specialist qualifications, often skills and qualifications to manage several areas of nursing and governance, and direct staff skillfully, as well the ability to go back to frontline nursing as required.  

It seems the career did you no favours though sadly

[RJRS1301]

25 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

So they're closing down for a disease that has killed 0.01% of their population. Pure insanity.

 

I have a feeling LA and other large cities and some states are using this to angle for a bailout.

New US coronavirus hotspots appear in Republican heartlands

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/new-us-coronavirus-hotspots-republican-heartland-areas?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVUy0yMDA1MTM%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUS_email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUS

[Elkski]

So how do things open?  Do you think it's ok to force people to go to work?  All you  opinionated gents can go out and test the waters.  Ok?  I can imagine if I was cooped up in a tiny condo I would be bitchy.  But I have a big house a d yard a d months of projects.   I can ride to world class mountain biking, drive to blue ribbon trout fishing.  I will be staying safe for as long as needed.  

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's a forum for all to contribute, within the rules. I haven't seen much happiness from you on your posts, but I don't tell you not to post.

 

I suggest you keep the personal insults to yourself. There are forum rules against that.

At no point in my post did I say for you not to post. Not sure where you got that from.

Also, you just come across as quite bitter from your experience with nursing and I was only pointing out that this seems to have shaped your viewpoint on empathy. Didn't think it was particularly insulting but if you took it that way then I will apologise as that wasn't my intention.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I was just annoyed and venting, but don't expect anyone not to use it, as quite common.

I'd prefer just saying "working with patients".

There's a lot of BS in nursing. Years ago they tried to stop us saying patients and use clients instead. Luckily that was so scorned it never caught on.

Actually, if they took the BS out of nursing it might even become a job worth doing.

Mother and late brother were nurses, my brother didn't last long in that chosen profession.

 

I on the other hand entered a different profession, suffice to say, these days it's got nothing to do with the job, but all about compliance, more hours and less pay, which is what makes working in certain professions unbearable.

 

I used to enjoy working in my chosen career, until they took away the secretary, introduced computers and compliance, suffice to say, 4 hours was added to my day, and things had to be turned around within 24 hours as opposed to the previous 72 hours, and wages remained the same for 10 years, then dropped but if you took on more work, you could earn more, so that was the incentive, and this was to become the future of my industry, suffice to say, we all have choices, and I retired 12 years earlier than anticipated, best thing I ever did and earn what I was earning back then from here on a net basis on tax free investments with no stress that I used to go through.

 

Careers and degrees through my experience are just a process, but hugely a waste of time as those in positions above you have no idea of what goes on at the "coal face", in your profession "working with patients". 

 

Not disgruntles, and I know lots of my friends being in the same boat, but they don't know how to get off, or are too afraid, but praise me for doing what I did, go figure.