Drivers In Thailand

[maitembot]

Thanks Chanchao, finally a clear and concise guide for us.

Problem is, reading and remembering it all was proving to be too much effort, so I just gave myself 500 baht instead.

I'm sure with a bit of driving experience and time, it'll become natural to you. The thinking and logic expressed above is clearly based on experience and is the exact logic used by most Thai drivers and safer farangs...and it's what makes the farang tourist or newbie a dangerous animal on the road, because most will assume you already know what's up, and drive accordingly...

Frankly, having it known to all that you are a farang driving that bike could greatly increase your own safety, in my experience...

Just don't forget the golden rule.....Might is Right

[chanchao]

> Excellent stuff. What is the source? Is it available online, on a

> website (besides this one!) ?

Wrote it myself.

Quite some time ago though. I think I originally posted it in the soc.culture.thai forum.

Ah, here it is: soc.culture.thai post

Cheers,

Chanchao

Edited June 17, 2004 by chanchao

[john b good]

To john b good. Can you tell us how Shell recruit their drivers?  And do they give them post-recruitment driver training?. Although I have never been a professional truck driver, I learnt to drive on a truck some 62 years ago. At that time you were employed as a driver's mate, and rode in the cab and had things pointed out to you, and were questioned to see if you were learning what was being taught, and expected to take an intelligent interest  in things like route planning. This went on till your 17th birthday, when you showed the provisional licence you had applied for and received ready for the big day. If you had shown yourself to be 'a likely lad' you were allowed to put your 'L' plates on the truck. Some drivers would let the mate drive for an easy part of the trip and then more and more difficult parts. My driver let me drive from the start of the day, but as soon as I made an error then that was it for the day. It really put me on my mettle. For instance, any audible protest from the gearbox was an error (and on an Austin K2 there was no synchromesh, so upward changes had to be done at the right revs, and every downward change required a 'spot on' double de-clutch). Great was the day when I could go home and tell my dad that I had managed a whole day without being ordered off the wheel.

As far as I can tell, this 'apprenticeship' system doesn't seem to operate any longer in UK. There are truck-driving schools that do some 'classroom' stuff, have a 'manoeuvring area', I think, and take the trainees out on special trucks with big signs saying "Driver Under Instruction". This seems sensible, considering today's speeds.

What is the Thailand system?. No big company is going to let a driver take out one of their trucks just on his say-so that he can drive. So there must be some evaluation/recruitment/training system.

Although I agree with a lot that has been said against Thai driver ability(or lack of it) in general, I still maintain that the drivers of the multinationals' big trucks must have some very special abilities to get to their destinations despite the myriads of 'idiots' that they must encounter each day. I suspect that much of what they have to contend with is 'predictable idiocy', and would love to learn how to pick up the finer clues that tell what the 'idiot' in front (or, quite often, behind) is going to do.

I am afraid that I cannot tell you how Shell (or BP) recruit their drivers here in Thailand but I would venture to say that they spell out in words of one syllable what they expect from their drivers.

And on the subject of "post-recruitment driver training" here in Thailand I have no intimate knowledge, however I would be very surprised if it is not an ongoing part of their operations.

For companies (as noted above) their drivers are one of their most visible (the most visible) icons (representatives) in their employ.

Both Shell and BP are close to being paranoid regarding their corporate reputation and will do everything within their power to enhance and protect it (their reputation)

I can speak for BP and to a lesser extent for Shell. In the case of BP if there is an incident anywhere in the world that has a high potential (hi-po) to be serious the initial report will be on the desk of senior management in London within 24 hours.

The basic information (what happened, where it happened i.e. in what country, the extent of the event i.e. number of serious injuries/fatalities arising from the event) will be sent out as a "hi-po" report/bulletin, to all of their "business units" in every country of the world within a few days.

In the case of BP every person in the particular business unit where a serious event occurs and results in persons being off work for a shift (and just one shift at that) or a fatality, will lose a significant portion of their salary that has been dedicated to to the pursuit of excellance in all matters pertaining to "health, safety and the environment". This percentage varies and can be as little as 5% and as was the case on a recent BP project in Vietnam it was 25% (that figure keeps coming up doesn't it)

If a "hi-po" event occurs you will have the full attention of at least the senior vice president of the business unit. He will spell out just what a bunch of dumb fcuks everyone is, who might have been in a position to have prevented such an event.

When management fcuks up there is none of this pussy footing about and certainly none of this "mai pen rai" crap and they couldn't give a sh*t about someone losing face.

I have attended more than one of these sessions and no one is immune from the barrage. Depending on ones level of accountability (in the event that has occurred) there just ain't no place to hide.

I have been involved in the promulgation of strategies to enhance driver standards.

These can be a monthly bonus for drivers who keep their lorries clean, furnish maintenance reports (of defects requiring attention and rectification), not being involved in instances of bad driving/overspeeding etc.

If the drivers are given some ownership of such schemes it is surprising just how they will pick up the "gospel"

Sure it costs money but, then people who have been involved in investigating serios incidents can readily demonstrate that, not having accidents is the most cost effective way to run a business.

And in many countries it doesn't have to be a large international company either.

A few years (quite a few actually) back I was driving in the antipodes and was returning home after a long holiday weekend, when this lunatic overtook me (and I don't drive all that slowly) in the most dangerous manner.

It was a van and was plastered with the name and telephone number of the company owning the vehicle.

The following day I telephoned the company, got the manager on the line and told him of my experience.

The managers response was..... the person driving the vehicle did not have permission to take the vehicle away for the weekend AND that by the end of the day he would not be driving again AND furthermore that he would be looking for a new job.

That to me is a company taking full responsibility for it's own and it's employees actions.

I doubt that the majority of companies here in Thailand would be as proactive.

[john b good]

don't really understand all the fuss...in the year and a half that I have been driving a two lane country road (nicely paved and maintained) once per week to the provincial Tescos I have never had a bad experience. There are trucks with agricultural goods, thai tractors poking along...a scenario for a 'blood alley' in the rural US or in Lincolnshire in the UK but people appear to be sensible regarding overtaking and maintaining a reasonable speed. It's not to say that there haven't been accidents. But it is driving I can live with.

Anyone that has spent any time in the Gulf area where the greatest threat to life is not a jihadi warrior it is some raghead traveling at full speed in a S500 Mercedes, shouting into his mobile phone and blinking his lights to say 'get the fukc out of the way' with no intention of ever slowing down. In comparison the Thai locals are real sweethearts.

Have to admit that traffic in the provicial capital can be a drag and 'duelling bumpers' in the Tescos carpark is tiresome...

Mr. tutsiwarrior........

I am not sure exactlty where you are driving but that is really not relevent (you do seem to be lucky though) surely the fact that in excess of two persons are killed on Thailands roads every hour of the day, 7 days a week etc., will tell you something about the driving standards here in Thailand (and the number rises to 3-4-5 an hour during holiday times)

I have seen horrendous accidents here. Multiple fatalities, motorcyclists lying on the road with their life blood spreading from what had been their heads.

On one occasion I asked my wife what she thought about it. She was unsure as to how to respond.

I explained that "see those two guys lying there, they ain't going home tonight" And that they would have likely left home that morning, said good bye to the missus or girlfriend BUT they ain't going home again. EVER

Who is going to support their wife, girlfriend,and children now.

And then I reiterated why I wanted her to drive with her seat belt on, both hands on the steering wheel (in the correct position) not to follow too closely etc.

And how many when you ask them why they are not wearing their crash hat, will reply with "but I am not going far" or it will "mess up my hair".

Until Thais can understand that there ain't no such thing as reincarnation they will continue to die in their masses on the countries roads.

[RDN]

>  Excellent stuff. What is the source? Is it available online, on a

> website (besides this one!) ?

Wrote it myself.

Quite some time ago though.  I think I originally posted it in the soc.culture.thai forum.

Ah, here it is: soc.culture.thai post

Cheers,

Chanchao

Excellent article Chanchao! One thing that you didn't mention is what most Thai car drivers do on fast single lane roads. And that is to flash your right indicator once and then indicate left just before moving left to avoid someone waiting to turn right. The first flash right means "don't pass on my right" and the constant indication left means you're moving left.

The opposite is true, also: flash your left indicator and then right before moving out to pass a slow vehicle. The flash left means "don't pass me on the left", and the constant flashing right means "I'm moving out to overtake".

The problem with this is that not all drivers do it, although most people carriers (minivans, taxis, buses and coaches) do. So when you see someone slow down and indicate right you think "Oh, he's turning right. I'll pass him on the left", only to find there's a slow motorised food stall in front of you!

The moral: Assume nothing and keep your wits about you at all times. And, of course, never (but never) drink and drive.

[chanchao]

> The first flash right means "don't pass on my right" and the

> constant indication left means you're moving left

EEeeekkk I do that too!!! And also the right-left combo to thank a truck driver (usually) for indicating with a left-blink that he feels it's safe for me to overtake him. :S

> And, of course, never (but never) drink and drive.

Absolutely!

Well, not at the same time, at least. Usually.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Martin]

Thanks to ajarn and changchao. You have clarified many things for me.

If there are no 'Rules', just 'Driver Behaviours' that are culturally based and a bit flexible, then I must take back my word 'idiots'.

This all makes me think that Herz, Budget etc. are unethical in letting incoming farang tourists rent a car. I wouldn't be surprised if some haven't even got out of Don Muang Airport before having a bump.

I refuse to accept a booking from any overseas farang holidaymakers who want to hire a car and drive themselves around. This started on my wife's advice. She pointed out that we would just be so worried about them that there would be no pleasure in hosting them.

We met one couple recently off the plane at Khon Kaen. The wife got in the back with Thong and the husband got in the front with me. Three times in the first five minutes he emitted a fervent "Jeeeeeze". So I explained about: (1) flash of headlights means the opposite to its 'farangland' meaning; (2) 'Might Is Right": and (3) motorbikes, and anything else, can be expected to do a 'shoot across' right turn right in front of you when the lights turn green.

From then on, he became fascinated, rather than appalled, and thanked me for "The Defensive Driving Tutorial" when we got home an hour later. During his stay, he took a lot of digital photos of traffic coming the wrong way up the hard shoulder etc etc etc. He reckoned he had the makings of a good talk for a Rotary Lunch!.

[RDN]

  And also the right-left combo to thank a truck driver (usually) for indicating with a left-blink that he feels it's safe for me to overtake him.

Yes! I like that one, too. My g/f used to asked what I was doing with my indicators, but now accepts that I'm just saying "Thank you". It's also nice when they give you a flash back

[chanchao]

Come to think of it, when there's a relatively unexpected reason to slow down (someone driving in front of you suddenly indicating (if that) to turn right and slowing down) then I'd most likely flash all 4 indicator lights. Then turn those off (if there's time) and indicate left and then right.

In more serious cases, like a kid or very solid obstacle entering the road in front of me requiring serious braking, and/or just about any situation at night with a high likelyhood of any traffic behind me being semi-asleep or drunk at the wheel, I also flash my two back-pointing flood lights. Those really are an excellent thing to have. You know, suppose you're turning right yourself off a major highway, but are waiting for on-coming traffic to clear so you can make the right turn crossing their lane. At the same time you're watching your rear view mirror to make sure any traffic behind you in your lane has seen that you're stationary and are moving to the left to overtake, as opposed to driving straight at you.. That's a very good occaisioan to use those bright backward pointing lights as well.

Those things are really not expensive to install, most shops will do it for under 1000 baht, including wiring and installing a neat little switch in the dash. They're mostly intended for providing visibility when having to back up on a dark country road, or off-road, when the regular white reverse-lights aren't bright enough or covered in mud.

Finally.. if there's some dude behind you at night with his high beams on.... Can give him some of his own medicine. A single flash is usually enough, my reverse beaming lights are rather bright you see...

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Ajarn]

Come to think of it, when there's a relatively unexpected reason to slow down (someone driving in front of you suddenly indicating to torn right (if that) and slowing down)  then I'd most likely flash all 4 indicator lights.  Then turn those off (if there's time) and indicate left and then right.  

In more serious cases, like a kid or very solid obstacle entering the road in front of me requiring serious braking, and/or just about any situation at night with a high likely hood of any traffic behind you being asleep or drunk at the wheel,  I also flash my two back-pointing flood lights.   Those really are an excellent thing to have.    You know, suppose you're turning right yourself but are waiting for on-coming traffic to clear so you can make the right turn crossing their lane.  At the same time you're watching your rear view mirror to make sure any traffic behinf you in your lane has seen you and is moving to the left to overtake, as opposed to driving straight at you..  That's a very good occaisioan to use those bright backward pointing lights as well.

Those things are really not expensive to install, most shops will do it for a couple 100 baht, including a neat little switch in the dash.   They're mostly intended for providing visibility when having to back up on a dark country road, or off-road, when the regular white reverse-lights aren't bright enough.

Finally.. if there's some dude behind you at night with his high beams on....   Can give him some of his own medicine.    A single flash is usually enough, my reverse beaming lights are rather bright you see...

Cheers,

Chanchao

Come to think of it, when there's a relatively unexpected reason to slow down (someone driving in front of you suddenly indicating to torn right (if that) and slowing down)  then I'd most likely flash all 4 indicator lights.  Then turn those off (if there's time) and indicate left and then right.  

I usually just tap my brakes a couple of times to get the attention behind me, then just use my left signal to indicate I'll be passing the car on the left that's waiting to turn right, assuming cars behind me will see the car turning right as I move over...I also have only seen Thais use the left signal in such a case. (or maybe I unconciously tune out the right signal to focus on the left signal on the car ahead of me- afterall, I'm only really concerned with HIS intention..I never pass unless I can see it's clear for myself. The only other signalling I trust is from professional drivers, because car drivers do the stupidest of things sometimes )

Of course, you do what works for you. The proof is in the pudding,- we're still alive to talk about it:)

I also have a couple of back-up spots (100W each), aimed to get the most attention from behind. Gotta be careful that you don't blind someone when you want them to watch out for you, though...

As you said, they are quite effective against drivers driving too close behind you with their highbeams on

And most shops will install them for free if you've purchased them there, in my experience. I've never had to pay installation charges for anything unless I bought it elsewhere (which I try never to do unless it's something special that wasn't available locally at the time, like my dvd player, which I bought online). But I do often tip the installer 50 baht or so.

[chanchao]

Some poeple touched on professional truck drivers, and that they're much better drivers than average.

I think I know why, they start learning at a very young age.

Check out this pic I just shot. I think it's kinda beautiful.

Truck driver family

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Martin]

Lovely, Chanchao!!!

There is also the serious side. Kids absorb things, particularly manners and behavours, like they are blotting paper. So if driver dad gets all the rest he can when he can, and then drives calmly and considerately, the son will do the same in due course. But if Dad gambles with the other drivers whilst he is waiting at the sugar factory, and gives the finger when anything annoys him etc, this will be picked up as 'appropriate manly behaviour' and repeated in the next generation. "The sins of the parents are visited upon the children.........." is very true.

I am convinced that starting driving at as early an age as the law allows is a good thing. The Victorians were convinced of 'The Formative Years'. We seem to think that adults can be 'programmed' just the same at 40 as youths at 14, but 'taint so. I found the driving of the Bruneian mothers, going to pick up their kids from school,in Brunei in 1987/88, was abominable. They drove slowly (timorously) but they would do it out of a side road straight in front of you. And their idea of parking was simply to abandon the vehicle when they got somewhere near the school gates. But they were nice people. It was just that they had come to driving, unexpectedly, well after their youthful years.

So we should start the kids young, and set them a good example from even earlier.

[bkk_mike]

Having waited one morning this week in a queue of traffic at a red light for 23 minutes before it went green, without a single blast of the horn from anyone... you have to admit that Thai drivers have patience. (or is it simply that they know that blowing the horn would be counterproductive when there's a policeman controlling the lights).

This was going against the flow of the traffic, coming home from the school run in the morning rush hour... - I'm fairly sure the police will switch to green on whichever road is backed up the most once the backlog is clear on the road currently at green, which means if you're on the road with the least traffic (i.e. only a few hundred cars in 20 mins), lights can be a long wait.

[Ajarn]

Having waited one morning this week in a queue of traffic at a red light for 23 minutes before it went green, without a single blast of the horn from anyone... you have to admit that Thai drivers have patience. (or is it simply that they know that blowing the horn would be counterproductive when there's a policeman controlling the lights).

This was going against the flow of the traffic, coming home from the school run in the morning rush hour... - I'm fairly sure the police will switch to green on whichever road is backed up the most once the backlog is clear on the road currently at green, which means if you're on the road with the least traffic (i.e. only a few hundred cars in 20 mins), lights can be a long wait.

Thailand (and Singapore, of course) are the only countries I've driven in where horns aren't the favored expression in traffic

I, too, find it pretty amazing, and pretty cool. That 'cay yen' driving style is like a goal or ideal for me, I think

Traffic cops...Do they seem to mostly be the ones causing the traffic??

[DogNo1]

FYI, Horns are not used in Japan either. Drivers are incredibly patient and courteous for the most part. The driving test in Japan is very difficult and it is evident that most of the drivers are proficient as a result.

Perhaps the worst drivers are in Vietnam. There was a flap between the Vietnamese government and motorcycle exporters about 16 months ago. The government imposed import restrictions on all motorcycles because their hospitals were being overwhelmed by people with motorcycle accident injuries. When I was in Saigon in February, I found the drivers didn't seem to be following any discernable rules. I only took taxis, but my heart was in my mouth quite often. I wasn't in any accident, but there were a lot of near misses.

[SteveH]

Driving a car on the left side of the road actually wasn't too much of a learning experience. But my car is an automatic transmission -- being nonambidextrous (is that a word?), I'm not really sure I could drive a stick shift while simultaneously weaving in and out of kamikaze traffic.

On the highway, I find staying in the right (fast) lane is the safest way to go. Yeah, you gotta watch your six for mach 2 macho types, then get over -- but this seems to be a lot safer than dodging all the Ray Charles types merging, or the slow food carts, or AT NIGHT, all the motorcycles trying to save electricity. But the main problem with right lane travel (cops have never been a problem) is on the older highways where the u-turn cutouts have NO indentation! Such is the case around Chiang Mai anyways, and watching out for protruding butts of turning cars can really get your attention.

The real eye opener, however, was my first time on the highway with a motorcycle. Staying left, natch, and doing my best to stay on the hard shoulder. Then, first time out, I see an approaching motorcycle on the hard shoulder. Almost disaster, until I figured out (somehow) that I was to pass to the RIGHT. So, I learned, driving on the shoulder has its own rules-of-the-road.

But, it's actually kind of fun anticipating all the nuances of driving in Thailand. I'm sure most of the close calls have been due to my lack of experience with Thai driving quirks -- but the great thing is that my screw-ups have not been met with even a horn or finger, let alone a .38, Stateside fashion.

Nice.

If you drive in the right lane around the Rayong area sooner or later you will get pulled over for speeding even if you are not !