Just now, Slip said:

I was commenting on the fact that if employees were simply to resign rather than return to an unsafe workplace (as suggested by Crazy Alex), it (the company) would quite rightly run the risk of falling foul of constructive dismissal legislation.

Ah..got it. Thanks for the clarification. 

I think workers have a right to a safe work environment. 

Maybe crazy alex does not. 

4 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

1) We are a nation of laws, not rules.

2) Your suspicion of what you think Musk might do does not constitute a threat. Stick with REALITY.

3) We were talking about corporate welfare subsidies, not funding education. This is the THIRD time I have told you I have no problem funding education. But keep beating a dead horse if it suits you.

4) Businesses are leaving California in record numbers and there is nothing you can do to change that.

https://www.southstarcommunities.com/blog/companies-leave-california-bound-for-texas

Furthermore, thousands of businesses start in any large state each year. The vast majority fail. Straw man argument. Try harder.

5) Tell me about these conservative economists that have made the argument you claim they have. Links, please.

6) Not interested in your Charles Dickens fairy tales. I deal with facts. Isn't time you present some?

 

 

1. Administrative rules have the force of law. 

2. If Musk is telling the press he will open his factory in violation of local rule (with the effect of law) he is telling workers the factory is open and implied is they better go back to work. 

3. You said no one should get subsidies. Be clear in your writing. 

4. No straw man argument - an economics argument. Businesses go where they can make money, 

and many tech companies go to California - and many others leave. Your original statement is the straw man. 

5. The Chicago school of economics Milton Friedman. A brutal form of capitalism advocated by many conservative think tanks - the only responsibility of business is to make money and they have no other responsibility. 

6. I am interested in Dickens as an instructive lesson on the abuses of pure capitalism where everything is turned into a commodity including human beings. 

 

2 minutes ago, jm91 said:

1. Administrative rules have the force of law. 

2. If Musk is telling the press he will open his factory in violation of local rule (with the effect of law) he is telling workers the factory is open and implied is they better go back to work. 

3. You said no one should get subsidies. Be clear in your writing. 

4. No straw man argument - an economics argument. Businesses go where they can make money, 

and many tech companies go to California - and many others leave. Your original statement is the straw man. 

5. The Chicago school of economics Milton Friedman. A brutal form of capitalism advocated by many conservative think tanks - the only responsibility of business is to make money and they have no other responsibility. 

6. I am interested in Dickens as an instructive lesson on the abuses of pure capitalism where everything is turned into a commodity including human beings. 

 

1) Likely a moot point. Musk has filed suit. I predict he will prevail. What's your call?

2) if if if if... It appears item 1 has destroyed this "if" of yours.

3) Please read my posts carefully.

4) You have conceded this issue, has you have shown no conservative economists saying what you claim they would say.

5) Take it up with them.

6) Again, Charles Dickens has nothing to do with the topic. Now tell me about this pure capitalism in the US. Didn't think so.

 

8 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

1) Likely a moot point. Musk has filed suit. I predict he will prevail. What's your call?

2) if if if if... It appears item 1 has destroyed this "if" of yours.

3) Please read my posts carefully.

4) You have conceded this issue, has you have shown no conservative economists saying what you claim they would say.

5) Take it up with them.

6) Again, Charles Dickens has nothing to do with the topic. Now tell me about this pure capitalism in the US. Didn't think so.

 

1. Maybe a moot point but terrible PR - implying he is more concerned about his factory than his workers 

2. No 1 has not destroyed 2. You thinking is unclear. 

3. I did read your post carefully - and you stated no one should get subsidy - your writing is unclear,

4. Milton Friedman - a nobel prize winning economist - I have given you a conservative economist and that is exactly what he said. Businesses have one purpose and that is to make money - 

5. Hmm. I made a valid point. You deflect 

6. Dickens is relevant - Pure capitalism is the goal of many conservatives. It does not exist and basically can not exist as the assumptions of the free market will never be met. But conservative economist love the idea of capitalism even when it leads to huge corporations with extracting as much money as possible from consumer and workers with no oversight or interference from anyone 

2 minutes ago, jm91 said:

1. Maybe a moot point but terrible PR - implying he is more concerned about his factory than his workers 

2. No 1 has not destroyed 2. You thinking is unclear. 

3. I did read your post carefully - and you stated no one should get subsidy - your writing is unclear,

4. Milton Friedman - a nobel prize winning economist - I have given you a conservative economist and that is exactly what he said. Businesses have one purpose and that is to make money - 

5. Hmm. I made a valid point. You deflect 

6. Dickens is relevant - Pure capitalism is the goal of many conservatives. It does not exist and basically can not exist as the assumptions of the free market will never be met. But conservative economist love the idea of capitalism even when it leads to huge corporations with extracting as much money as possible from consumer and workers with no oversight or interference from anyone 

1) Musk is a master of PR. How bout you? And what makes you think his well-paid employees don't want to get back to working, producing and making money anyway? The implication here is government is overreaching and starving people.

2) I notice you made no prediction on the outcome. And yes, given Musk will likely prevail, the moot will be moot.

 

 

The rest of these points are straying from the topic and the forum has rules.

 

5 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

1) Musk is a master of PR. How bout you? And what makes you think his well-paid employees don't want to get back to working, producing and making money anyway? The implication here is government is overreaching and starving people.

2) I notice you made no prediction on the outcome. And yes, given Musk will likely prevail, the moot will be moot.

 

 

The rest of these points are straying from the topic and the forum has rules.

 

No comments on the conservative economist who is in favor of brutal capitalism? 

 

I am <deleted> at PR and not a billionaire.

It is still bad PR. Tesla can sue so what? Tesla still looks like some huge corporation that doesn't care about the health and safety of its workers. 

 

My prediction is the public health officials, Tesla management and the workers will come to some sort of accommodation. Lots of testing, masks, disinfecting equipment - that is the likely outcome not Tesla winning some lawsuit which would take years to run through the courts. Musk will probably be pouting in the background. 

I lost all respect for Musk when that story of the cave rescue hit the news and Musk accused the one guy of being a kiddy fiddler. Musk sounds like a guy who has lots of money and no one to reign in his worst instincts. 

Is he a good businessman? He is certainly good at getting public subsidies for his companies 4-5 billion USD and counting. 

I heard Musk in an interview with Joe Rogan the other day. He really impressed me during their discussion on COVID19. He really 'gets' it. 

 

I will not be surprised to see him move Tesla out of California. There are big savings to be had, which will probably offset the cost.

4 hours ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

I heard Musk in an interview with Joe Rogan the other day. He really impressed me during their discussion on COVID19. He really 'gets' it. 

 

I will not be surprised to see him move Tesla out of California. There are big savings to be had, which will probably offset the cost.

 

I would imagine he knows a bit more than some of our more vocal posters about running factories, relocating them, tax laws etc. He makes me nervous sometimes as a shareholder but the results are undeniable.

 

Other then taxes he will save a ton on wages. When people don't need $650,000 for a fixer upper they don't need mid 6 figure salaries. No state income tax in Nevada for his workers. That alone is worth it but California is not a bad place to do business just because of taxes it's the openly hostile environment there.

 

It won't surprise me if companies that move to other states begin to have contracts signed that guarantee they can operate without being on lockdown. Maybe we can start selling lockdown insurance.

 

 

21 hours ago, jm91 said:

No comments on the conservative economist who is in favor of brutal capitalism? 

 

I am <deleted> at PR and not a billionaire.

It is still bad PR. Tesla can sue so what? Tesla still looks like some huge corporation that doesn't care about the health and safety of its workers. 

 

My prediction is the public health officials, Tesla management and the workers will come to some sort of accommodation. Lots of testing, masks, disinfecting equipment - that is the likely outcome not Tesla winning some lawsuit which would take years to run through the courts. Musk will probably be pouting in the background. 

I lost all respect for Musk when that story of the cave rescue hit the news and Musk accused the one guy of being a kiddy fiddler. Musk sounds like a guy who has lots of money and no one to reign in his worst instincts. 

Is he a good businessman? He is certainly good at getting public subsidies for his companies 4-5 billion USD and counting. 

You mentioned an economist. That doesn't contribute anything.

 

As for Telsa, they will do just fine without your approval of Musk.

 

Thanks for admitting you agree with me and we need to get rid of corporate welfare. Welcome aboard.

On 5/10/2020 at 2:02 PM, Crazy Alex said:

Show us those checks the State of California has written to Tesla.

Cute. Are you too lazy to read the company's 10K?

 

Based on the 2019 annual report, Tesla made about $594 million, $419 million and $360 million for the years ended December 2019, 2018 and 2017 respectively from selling its regulatory credits alone. These are in large part  related to the California ZEV credits. it also  sells its non ZEV credits. The US federal subsidy for tax on  the Tesla vehicles is about $7500 isn't it? This in effect  lowers the cost to consumers and boosts the sales for Tesla.