Us Couple Getting Started

[masscouple]

Greetings...

I'm 52, wife is 47, and we're beginning to look at options to retire in Thailand (probably somewhere near Chiang Mai) in a couple years. Aside from my wife's age, we meet all requirements of a retirement Visa, and we're prepared, if necessary, to do "Visa Runs" until she ages sufficiently to meet the retirement age requirement.

We're looking for experiences others have had in buying real estate, both condos and houses, having read the requirements for land ownership in Thailand by non-Thais. We're not averse to going through the hurdles and expense of setting up an LLC to buy a house, and we would prefer to have our own slice of the pie as opposed to owning a condo, but we're not wed to either concept.

We would appreciate any suggestions, experiences and recommendations to realtors and other sources to help us find housing options and get started. Currently we're planning to travel back and forth between eastern US and Thailand for the next couple of years, and gradually increase our time there to permanent residence in three years or so.

Thanks in advance for any counsel/advice or anecdotes you can send.

[Mobi]

Hi masscouple.

That's a lot of questions you have posed and maybe one of the reasons you have not yet received any replies, is because the whole subject is so fraught, no one knows quite where to start.

Well, I will not attempt to give you a comprehensive response, but I'll start the ball rolling and maybe others can then follow on.

In no particular order:

DO NOT set up a company, and DO NOT buy a house. The law is a in a state of flux and there are many thousands of farang property owners who may lose their properties. You will find a lot of stuff about this on Thai Visa if you look for it.

The only property you can legally buy is a condo - but even here be very careful. You must get yourself a good, trustworthy lawyer (maybe 95 % are NOT trustworthy), and make sure that the condo you are buying is part of the 49% of that development that is allocated to foreigners, and that it is noted as such on the title deeds.

I would advise against buying any property until you have lived in Thailand for at least a year, and are sure that you want to settle here, that you have had a good chance to decide exactly where you want to live, and you have been able to familiarise yourself with the 'lay of the land' as far as you , a farang, living in Thailand is concerned. You can easily get nice property on a one year lease, but if at all possible, find your property without the use a of an agent, as they will all rip you off - Thais and foreigners alike. If you have any good Thai friends, use them to locate suitable properties.

Visa runs are a bit problematic as you can now only stay for 90 days within any 6 month period. If you can get tourist or non immigrant visas from you home country, that will be much better than your wife doing visa runs. I also believe that if you qualify for a retirement visa, then you can include your wife as a dependant. Check the forum - there's lot on this, and others are more expert than I.

Sorry to be negative on these issues, but if you read this forum, you will see that now is not a particularly good time to come and live in Thailand. Having said that, it can certainly be done, as I am retired here and am very happy.

Good luck, and I hope you get some more responses and advice.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Mobi D'Ark

[MTW]

I am on my 4th house here. Three rentals and now I have bought one. My "good thai friends" took commission on every house, except the one I got through an agency. They also got commission on my furniture, TVs, washing machine, computers, motorbike, hotel reservations that I made by myself,(they called later to claim responsibility for the reservation and I found out because the price was higher after I arrived then when I made the reservation.) A tuk-tuk driver tried to get commission on my car purchase. Oh, and they took commission every time they set me up with a gardener, a maid, and every other type of work that needed to be done on my house.

And this was even though I was compensating them for their time with food, drinking, all entertainment, loaning them way too much money, jeans and gifts from the USA that were requested and never paid for, taking the woman on vacation with me two times at no cost to her (I am a woman and this was a platonic friendship in case I need to say that.

At least a house broker is in business and you know that. They have expenses for advertising and making contracts, and their time showing houses.

My "good thai friends" now own a guesthouse in a prime area here and tell other Thai people that they were able to start this business because of me. And this isn't meant to be a compliment to me.

And they lied, a lot, about anything and everything. Please be careful with Thai friends and try to get help from farangs here as much as possible, or just use real people that are in business to service your needs, not people that are in the business of being fake friends.

[blacklabel]

The only property you can legally buy is a condo - but even here be very careful. You must get yourself a good, trustworthy lawyer (maybe 95 % are NOT trustworthy), and make sure that the condo you are buying is part of the 49% of that development that is allocated to foreigners, and that it is noted as such on the title deeds.

It would be better to rent a condo first den take ur time to decide whether u need to buy 1. Dun rush!! Read more in the forums about property u will get ur answers there..cheers

[lamphun]

Renting in CM is easy but do try to avoid using agents or brokers, they'll get you a house at 3 or 4 times the normal rent just to boost their commision. The easiest way to find somewhere is to base youself in a decent guesthouse for a few weeks and wander around the area. Plently of houses to let. Good luck.

[Mobi]

I am on my 4th house here. Three rentals and now I have bought one. My "good thai friends" took commission on every house, except the one I got through an agency. They also got commission on my furniture, TVs, washing machine, computers, motorbike, hotel reservations that I made by myself,(they called later to claim responsibility for the reservation and I found out because the price was higher after I arrived then when I made the reservation.) A tuk-tuk driver tried to get commission on my car purchase. Oh, and they took commission every time they set me up with a gardener, a maid, and every other type of work that needed to be done on my house.

And this was even though I was compensating them for their time with food, drinking, all entertainment, loaning them way too much money, jeans and gifts from the USA that were requested and never paid for, taking the woman on vacation with me two times at no cost to her (I am a woman and this was a platonic friendship in case I need to say that.

At least a house broker is in business and you know that. They have expenses for advertising and making contracts, and their time showing houses.

My "good thai friends" now own a guesthouse in a prime area here and tell other Thai people that they were able to start this business because of me. And this isn't meant to be a compliment to me.

And they lied, a lot, about anything and everything. Please be careful with Thai friends and try to get help from farangs here as much as possible, or just use real people that are in business to service your needs, not people that are in the business of being fake friends.

Sadly, a great many Thais take advantage of farangs whenever, and wherever possible - a fact of life in LOS.

That is why I said stay here at least a year before deciding whether to retire here or not. It is possible to find genuine Thai friends, but quite hard. If you learn to speak Thai it will help a great deal, and you will understand more that is going on around you and be more aware of Thais taking advantage of you.

I have been coming to, and living in Thailand for over 30 years and about 5 years ago I was still ripped off by a Thai who was a business partner and friend of a farang friend of many years standing. I had also known this Thai for a number of years and he was well educated, earned good money and has always been extremely friendly and helpful in the past, but when he saw big bucks he went for it. My farang friend speaks and writes fluent Thai, and I get by fairly well, but the Thai still tried it on.Fortunately I realised what he was up to before he got in too deep. To this day my friend - the farang - remains unconvinced that I was ripped off.

Good luck, and be careful.

PS I should add, in the interests of fairness and balance, that there are also quite a few farangs who are not averse to ripping off their fellow farangs. Again, even after all these years, it came as quite a shock to me to find that many farangs in Pattaya will also look for commission if they find a customer for a house or a piece of land - even 'friend to friend'. The other day, a builder 'acquaintance' of mine, told me he had to pay his friend commission for introducing him to another friend who wants house built.

I would imagine the quality of farangs in CM is a bit above this, but you never know.

Edited April 19, 2007 by Mobi D'Ark

[spacebass]

I cannot believe that apparently educated people propose to invest large sums of money in property it is illegal to own, a fact that is made abundantly clear if you read anything except Real Estate agents/developers rip off literature, same same everywhere so no surprise!. (The companies set up to circumvent the law are illegal because they involve Thai nominees facilitating aliens controlling land, for which they could go to prison.)

For your information the only sound way to 'own' property in Thailand is to take a 30 year lease, registered at land office, (Maximum term permitted forget the rest), from a Thai person who owns the land.

It makes you wonder whether it is even worth advising such people on anything, if they can't read and understand the plain very simple basics themselves. ..... Sorry

[Mobi]

This is a very large forum, and they may be 'newbies' to this kind of thing.

Give them a chance to find their way around.

[GuestHouse]

Mobi's comment is very worth repeating.

This is a very large forum, and they may be 'newbies' to this kind of thing.

Give them a chance to find their way around.

My advice to the OP is as follows:

Take time to learn the ropes (TV is a great head start that many of us, with hind sight, would have really benefited from had it been around when we first moved to Thailand)

The absolute golden rule is 'Don't move any money to Thailand that you are not prepared to loose'.

We all of us could recite that to ourselves every morning and every night, but it still would not be repeated too often.

Like all of us, you need to fund your life in Thailand, I strongly suggest (and the above golden rule insists) that you leave your life savings back home in the US, and draw income in Thailand.

Both sides of any couple moving to Thailand should discuss and consider very carefully any ideas about moving communal/shared wealth to Thailand - Women in particular have very much more protection for their life's savings back home than they do in Thailand.

Spend some time to learn about property laws and pitfalls in Thailand before you ever decide to buy a place in Thailand (I don't say invest because on the balance of probability, buying in Thailand is not an investment you should expect to grow).

Better still, rent and keep your capital safely in the US.

Scams: You'll hear a lot about them, indeed there is a lot to hear. As has been said above, foreigners are just as likely to try and scam you as are Thais (I would say more so).

To avoid not being scammed, just follow common sense.

Don't lend money, cars, and expensive items.

Don't ever pay large deposits

Don't ever put money in someone else's account

Don't ever stand as a credit guarantor for anyone

Don't ever sign a power of attorney

Don't forget, if a deal sounds too good to be true, it usually is, too good to be true.

I have been coming to, and living in Thailand for over 30 years and about 5 years ago I was still ripped off

Indeed, I too have been caught after many years in Thailand, luckily with minor scams. The point to note is that the scam attempts are relentless, they never ever let up, so unless you are either super vigilant, or hyper lucky, you will eventually get caught. Just make sure you are not caught for big bucks... and that takes me back to the golden rule again.

Edited April 19, 2007 by GuestHouse

[JimmyTheMook]

And this was even though I was compensating them for their time with food, drinking, all entertainment, loaning them way too much money, jeans and gifts from the USA that were requested and never paid for, taking the woman on vacation with me two times at no cost to her (I am a woman and this was a platonic friendship in case I need to say that.

Sounds like you were an easy mark for them from the start.

Edited April 19, 2007 by JimmyTheMook

[Old Man River]

Mobi and others have given you a good deal of good advice. If you are serious about buying in Thailand, contact Sunbelt who is one of the sponsors of this forum. Based on the advice that they have provided in numerous similar situations, they do have a good handle on what to do and how to do it from a legal standpoint. Also, for property available, stick with the global experts that are in Thailand. Groups like CBRE (Coldwell Banker Richard Ellis) won't steer you wrong.

[masscouple]

Thanks, all, for the insight and advice. We're been reading and culling tons of information, and all signs point to proceeding cautiously, given the cultural realities, political uncertainly and market fluctuations in Thailand. (Come to think of it, sounds a bit like life in the US these days.) We've read tons about the scam industry in Thailand (and having been "victimized" by a couple minor tourist scams during our time there) and the advice offered here is well taken. We're also committed to warehousing the minimum required to qualify for a retirement Visa in Thailand and leaving the bulk in other, more reliable confines.

Reading other posts on this forum has proven incredibly helpful as well, as it helps keep current with popular opinion of what's going on at the moment.

We have a Thai friend who also advised that long-term rental is the only way to go, but also cautioned to plan to spend at least a year in a short-term lease to get our bearing.

Please keep the thread going, as I'm sure there are other newbies out there who are in the information gathering phase and will benefit from everyone's experiences.

Cheers.

[Khun ?]

I bought a house from a foreigner/thai family, 5 years old never lived in. I sold it before lived

in, to a thai foreigner family. It is lived in and they love it.

I sold it for a bit of a loss just so I did not have to worry about up keep on the yard and pay company

taxes. I could of rented for the same price as the up keep and had no worries if I left and never came back.

I can now and have been going to different countries at will without a worry. Many beautiful places

and some cheaper and better than Thailand. I guess when the thrill of newness wears off there is a new

and wonderful places to adventure. A moldy stone has sit to long.