What impact does low supply voltage have on consumption/bill.

[Crossy]

Just now, Mama Noodle said:

So I guess my problem won't cause any noticeable increase in consumption over having a steady supply and appliances operating at their most efficient? 

 

Correct, but there's always the exception ...

 

You really need to find out what's going on, a fizzing connection could be the cause (another member had something similar which was a loose connection on his meter). 

 

[Metropolitian]

6 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

Whats bugging me is the idea of spending 9k to resolve an issue that PEA should be fixing. I know, this is Thailand, but still.

It's not always PEA as it can happen all the time with the nature doing. Everywhere on the planet, unless the power is buried underground.

 

A small investment, which involves some modification in the consumer unit is placing a under/up voltage protection (brownouts) Which turns off everything at a specific voltage rate.

This protects your equipment but you are then of course without power.

 

Fridge can do without power for while without defrosting.

 

Having an AVR helps your aircon, fans, and other equipment bridge the voltage swings.

I don't have an AVR (but I am considering to get one in the future, a smallish one) for my home as aircons are inverter type and so is the fridge. They are ok with voltage down to 140 volt but will never go to that as the undervoltage protection is set on 170 volt.

When the protection kicks in, the UPS take care of the IT hardware and I have a DC fan ready for long power cuts. (batterypack and solar)

 

 

[Metropolitian]

10 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

In my head I just can't seem to see how (and I believe you, just struggling with understanding) an air conditioner (for example) trying to cool a room in the heat of the day with varying supply voltage does not equate to an increase in consumption. I get that the consuurmption is what it is, thats not going to change, but what's hanging me up is that an aircon that is not operating with its required supply, and thus not cooling as well as it should, so its trying to either (non inverter) cycle alot more (increase in consumption that was unnecessary) or (inverter) operate at a higher motor speed/load to compensate because it can't cool the room as well as it can with a stable, constant supply (increase in consumption that was unnecessary). Maybe im way out in left field, but makes sense to me lol. 

 

At first let we put the consumption bill aside, as already mentioned with brownouts and fluctuation it has a little to no impact on that.

 

Now above quote;  aircons cooling the evaparators at the same force, no matter of input voltage.

The voltage has anything to do with compressing the gas in the outdoor unit, which would be slower with lower voltage theoretically and to compensate it use more currents.

Non inverter type don't like this, and I had one going boom on that splurging oil all over the wall.

Inverter type can having lower voltages and instead of eating more currents it really will works slower. If the aircon need cycling more often, the inverter has to kick in more and if the cycle overlaps, then yes the evaparator coil wouldn't get that cool as fast as in normal situation. The exactly same goes up if an undersized aircon is installed in a too big room, or with open doors/windows.

 

The impact you will get on the bill for a new aircon ????

 

 

10 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

The best way to describe the frequency is to imagine a local with a stick welder - stitch welding something nearby. Bog down, speed up, bog down, speed up - kinda quickly like stitching roof metal together. Every time it happens (everyday, multiple times a day, even in the middle of the night totaling 4-5 hours a day, everyday) I picture a dude welding somewhere because it feels just like that.

 

And yea best I can measure here at the moment is 190V to 255V and fluctuating at the frequency noted above. All my stuff is digital so I know im losing accuracy when I measure. 

 

PEA was round the other day, totally agreed that we had low supply and said they would 'file a report' which I know will amount to nothing. 

 

 

I am not very sure, but 190 is nothing for them to turn up but 255 is too much.

There's a table with marigins somewhere. 10% or 15% .  PEA members here can confirm?

 

For MEA they will check up if under 200 and above 240 if longer than 2 minutes.

 

And on the 'freqeuency' of the electric voltage. Over a few hours it is normal. But intermediate as you describe, no.

A tree hitting one of the phase line ? Or a loose contact in the line.

 

Someone here mentioned about measuring the voltage at the neighbors, we need to know first if the power lines outside are one phase or three phase. 

Neighbors can be on a different phase as yours.

 

[RichCor]

10 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

PEA was round the other day, totally agreed that we had low supply and said they would 'file a report' which I know will amount to nothing.

 

Quick question:

When PEA came around did they take a measurement at the pole (at the meter), and did they acknowledge that everyone in the area was also affected?

 

If you're experiencing extreme voltage swings or periods I'd suggest keeping a date/time & voltage log you can show someone at PEA management.  Some problems can be solved within their normal budget. Others are beyond their budget or resources and then the solution falls on you (and your pocket book), and might require a new transformer or the installation of an AVR.

 

But I'm still interested in what exactly PEA did and what they initially said when they visited. 

[Mama Noodle]

2 minutes ago, RichCor said:

When PEA came around did they take a measurement at the pole (at the meter), and did they acknowledge that everyone in the area was also affected?

Yes they took a reading at the meter on the pole outside, asked us to turn on everything in the house for an accurate reading, never mentioned anything about others in the neighborhood and I very much doubt anyone other than me would actually complain as im pretty rural where I am. 

 

4 minutes ago, RichCor said:

If you're experiencing extreme voltage swings or periods I'd suggest keeping a date/time & voltage log you can show someone at PEA management.  Some problems can be solved within their normal budget. Others are beyond their budget or resources and then the solution falls on you (and your pocket book), and might require a new transformer or the installation of an AVR.

 

But I'm still interested in what exactly PEA did and what they initially said when they visited. 

 

They didn't say much other than blowing smoke up the the wifeys backside about how they will file a report and that they are sorry for the inconvenience and to be honest they really didn't seem to care.

 

We have been keeping a log and I take readings at the consumer unit when it gets bad, but I doubt anything will be done regardless. Wife is going to PEA to talk to them in a few days. 

[Mama Noodle]

14 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

The impact you will get on the bill for a new aircon ????

 

My main air con is a top of the line 28k BTU Mitsubishi super inverter that gets used most of the time and works well, practically the only saving grace in this whole annoyance. 

[Metropolitian]

Just for the information the line voltage here swings over time but not really disturbingly.  The voltage at the OP is much more off.

In the night the non-inverter aircon working in the bed room (9k) and on the day the inverter in my workroom (12k). The latter has lesser inpact on the line voltage.

Missus woke up just before 5 am to turn on the rice cooker ????

 

 

 

 

[Mama Noodle]

10 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

Just for the information the line voltage here swings over time but not really disturbingly.  The voltage at the OP is much more off.

 

What are you using to measure and graph all this? Can you give me a link to the device? 

[Metropolitian]

14 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

We have been keeping a log and I take readings at the consumer unit when it gets bad, but I doubt anything will be done regardless. Wife is going to PEA to talk to them in a few days. 

What kind of meter do you have outside, if digital and showing voltage it would be more 'pungent' to push them than the meter in your consumer unit which is not theirs.

 

Pressing the green button, voltage reads 67.6 volt.

One week ago we encountered a voltage drop, inside home the main electric was cut off by the protector kicking in.

After one hour the power restored.

[Metropolitian]

6 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

What are you using to measure and graph all this? Can you give me a link to the device? 

 

The sensing done by the 'main' kWh meter with wifi function. (Hiking/Tomzn DDS238-4 W)

A mobile phone APP has access to the real time information as well as the kWh history of the current day.

 

The hardest part ; The graph is done by Home Assistant (which involved some programming as the device isn't standard supported) with the computer running 24hrs a day with background service (eats resources from the cpu) that continuously gets the data and stores it in a database. It's all a test setup still on my normal PC, and I am still deciding to dedicating another computer for that (Pi, Beagle or older PC).

 

 

There are a few (user friendly - ready to use) other solutions, of most of them are ready made for that purpose and much more convenient to install then I did with mine.

Only connect plug in the socket and a current clamp around the line feed and you have a setup.

 

They mostly has a high price tag , even need a monthly subscription,  and I found them 'closed source' . I want it modular and open so went the DIY way.

[Mama Noodle]

You have that digital mains meter in Thailand? Mine is just the basic mechanical spinning disc one that the PEA recently replaced for a whopping 4,500 baht and which they sell on lazada for 650 ????

[Metropolitian]

1 hour ago, Mama Noodle said:

You have that digital mains meter in Thailand?

Yes.

 

They replaced the spinning wheel version not so long ago.. and said they were doing so with all meters in the distant future but now giving the TOU consumers priority first as its data changes over twice a day during weekdays. (Day and night calculation, Time Of Use.) 

 

It's now sent trough the phone network with SIM card in the meter. No more meterer involved.

Before the change of meter the meterer need come and download the data once a month and the data is processed at the companys office and bill send to me by the mailman (and their app), as other meteres (for fixed rate users) just write down the kHw/units that's on display and a bill is printed out from their mini hips printer directly.