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Posted (edited)

Just wondering if anyone has had any experience in applying for the Child 101 Visa to Australia.

 

The child is over 16 and we are wondering if they need a police check here, and if the parents (sponsors) require police checks in both Australia and Thailand.

 

Mountains of paperwork, but the police checks are the thorn at the moment, i.e. if they are required or not, as we don't want to be going back and forth to Bangkok, if we can kill two birds with the one stone it would simpler.

 

Both parents ar Australian Citizens, the child is Thai and 16 years of age.

Edited by 4MyEgo
Posted
On 6/7/2020 at 2:37 PM, 4MyEgo said:

The child is over 16 and we are wondering if they need a police check here

Yes

 

On 6/7/2020 at 2:37 PM, 4MyEgo said:

and if the parents (sponsors) require police checks in both Australia and Thailand.

Yes if live for more than 12 months in Thailand. 

  • Thanks 1
Posted (edited)

 

10 hours ago, PhanomR said:

Yes

 

Yes if live for more than 12 months in Thailand. 

Thanks for that.

 

I would imagine we would wait for the case officer to tell us to go and get the police checks for the child and ourselves, after we have lodged the application ?

 

Also thought I would ask if you know anything about them accepting certified copies of originals, e.g. my wife has translated the Thai Birth Certificate into English at the Amphur upon advice from the Thai Consulate at Ubon Ratchanthi who say that the next step is to take the original English translation of the birth certificate to them, for them to stamp which makes sense, however they are also saying that we then need to take the stamped English translated document, to the Australian Embassy with a copy, for them to certify, which doesn't make sense as part of the application Form 1229, page 4 states that 'Certified copies' are authorised, or stamped as being true copies of originals, by a person or agency recognised by law of the country in which you currently reside. 

 

I fail to see what the Australian Embassy has got to do with certifying these documents as they are not recongised by the law of the country in which we reside as stated above in bold, which is Thailand.

 

So my take on this is that, it is only the Thai Consulate that needs to stamp a copy of the original document as a true copy of the original.

 

I don't want to be feeding others if it is not necessary if you get my drift.  

 

Your thoughts on this would be appreciated if you have been through this process or have an understanding on this process.

Edited by 4MyEgo
Posted
21 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Thanks for that.

 

I would imagine we would wait for the case officer to tell us to go and get the police checks for the child and ourselves, after we have lodged the application ?

 

Also thought I would ask if you know anything about them accepting certified copies of originals, e.g. my wife has translated the Thai Birth Certificate into English at the Amphur upon advice from the Thai Consulate at Ubon Ratchanthi who say that the next step is to take the original English translation of the birth certificate to them, for them to stamp which makes sense, however they are also saying that we then need to take the stamped English translated document, to the Australian Embassy with a copy, for them to certify, which doesn't make sense as part of the application Form 1229, page 4 states that 'Certified copies' are authorised, or stamped as being true copies of originals, by a person or agency recognised by law of the country in which you currently reside. 

 

I fail to see what the Australian Embassy has got to do with certifying these documents as they are not recongised by the law of the country in which we reside as stated above in bold, which is Thailand.

 

So my take on this is that, it is only the Thai Consulate that needs to stamp a copy of the original document as a true copy of the original.

 

I don't want to be feeding others if it is not necessary if you get my drift.  

 

Your thoughts on this would be appreciated if you have been through this process or have an understanding on this process.

The applications state that you need copy of originals certified by a person of athaurity ie; teacher ect 

The English translation only needs to be stamped by a Translator stating Name - Address - phone number - Qualifications as a translator (unlike if yu did in Auss they would pick the translator & have yu notorize them ) 

Posted
54 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

The applications state that you need copy of originals certified by a person of athaurity ie; teacher ect 

The English translation only needs to be stamped by a Translator stating Name - Address - phone number - Qualifications as a translator (unlike if yu did in Auss they would pick the translator & have yu notorize them ) 

Ok, this is getting interesting, e.g. a teacher etc, a person of authority, so I take it your saying that once the Thai Consular have put their rubber stamp on it, we could then copy it and it could be certified by a teacher etc etc ?

 

One of the documents that we translated in English at the Amphur says at the bottom:

 

                         x 1      Certified particulars from Thai National Indentification Card Database

Next documents x 7      Certified particulars from the Civil Registration Database

all docs at the bottom have a signature, their name and their title as per below:

                                                                       signature            

                                                                          name 

                                                                           title (Registrar)

 

So once they are stamped by the Thai Consular, e.g. a copy of the stamped original, then a teacher etc etc can certify it ?. 

 

At the time of writing my wife rang the Thai Consular at BKK and they said they can certify the doc as true copies 200 baht each which might kill two birds with the one stone, e.g. 400 baht for the stamping of the original and 200 baht for the copy.

Posted

Look up form 1195 

It will give you a list of Authorized people Eg: I,m lucky at the moment as I am staying with a Police man who is also a JP

The above is just for copy of original

 

Then as stated prior - The English translated copies only need to be signed by the Translater stating Name / Address / phone / & their credentials (experience)

 

I cant speak for the titles of the amphor  

 

I don't see the need for you to go to Consulate

 

Also look up form 118 & go to the Tab that says Step by Step  

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
On 6/9/2020 at 12:57 PM, BEVUP said:

Look up form 1195 

It will give you a list of Authorized people Eg: I,m lucky at the moment as I am staying with a Police man who is also a JP

The above is just for copy of original

 

Then as stated prior - The English translated copies only need to be signed by the Translater stating Name / Address / phone / & their credentials (experience)

 

I cant speak for the titles of the amphor  

 

I don't see the need for you to go to Consulate

 

Also look up form 118 & go to the Tab that says Step by Step  

Just to bring you up to speed as to where we are and to comment on form 1195, those people on the list are for people within Australia, we are here in Thailand, so no JP's here, although one bloke who translated a document from Thai to English for us said he has a JP and it's 750 baht per document, I remember surrendering my JP status of 30 years at the end of last year and we couldn't charge, so how can his JP charge, welcome to Thailand.

 

The consular disappointed us, in that they said on the phone they could stamp the original documents and provide us with a certified copy (which is the same meaning to them), in other words, they stamp the original document and certify it as a true original, they DO NOT provide you with additional copies certified even though they have sighted the original, CRAZY.

 

Their reasoning for that is that they are not qualified to certify copies, W-T-F- you just stamped and certified the original, and you cannot certify a copy, even if we pay you the same amount for the original being stamped and certified as being a true original....Thailand has gone made.

 

Posted
38 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Just to bring you up to speed as to where we are and to comment on form 1195, those people on the list are for people within Australia, we are here in Thailand, so no JP's here, although one bloke who translated a document from Thai to English for us said he has a JP and it's 750 baht per document, I remember surrendering my JP status of 30 years at the end of last year and we couldn't charge, so how can his JP charge, welcome to Thailand.

 

The consular disappointed us, in that they said on the phone they could stamp the original documents and provide us with a certified copy (which is the same meaning to them), in other words, they stamp the original document and certify it as a true original, they DO NOT provide you with additional copies certified even though they have sighted the original, CRAZY.

 

Their reasoning for that is that they are not qualified to certify copies, W-T-F- you just stamped and certified the original, and you cannot certify a copy, even if we pay you the same amount for the original being stamped and certified as being a true original....Thailand has gone made.

 

1 - The list is also for Thailand = The equivilant of ( go see the sons principal ) 

2 - No need for JP 

3 - Principal can also do the 1195

They are stating it is a true copy - nothing has to be Certified (this is why most do it in Thailand )

4 - Translations do not have to be Certified - Only need Name / Ph number /address / & qualifications of their experience in English Translating 

Why would you let them destroy an original with their stamp

The copy of original should state 

This is a true copy of ............... sighted on this day

With all their details Name / ph / title / adress ect 

 

Posted
15 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

1 - The list is also for Thailand = The equivilant of ( go see the sons principal ) 

2 - No need for JP 

3 - Principal can also do the 1195

They are stating it is a true copy - nothing has to be Certified (this is why most do it in Thailand )

4 - Translations do not have to be Certified - Only need Name / Ph number /address / & qualifications of their experience in English Translating 

Why would you let them destroy an original with their stamp

The copy of original should state 

This is a true copy of ............... sighted on this day

With all their details Name / ph / title / adress ect 

 

I respectfully don't know where you re getting your information from ?

 

Is this relating to Australia ?

 

Who is authorised to certify my documents?

When certifying a proof of identification document use the following words:

This is a true copy of the original document, sighted by me [name], [signature], [date], [qualification you have to certify documents – e.g. JP],[Qualification Number – e.g. JP ID].

 

The list in the link is for those in Australia, not Thailand: https://www.australia-migration.com/page/Certified_copies/327

 

How should each document be certified?

Copies of documents

Each copy of every page of the original document must be certified separately and must show clearly:

  • the words "certified true copy of the original"
  • the original signature of the certifying officer
  • the name and address or provider and the registration number (where appropriate) of the certifying officer legibly printed below the signature.

The above said, all JP's have a registration number, the principal would not be a JP, nor an Australian Citizen and would therefore not qualify in the meaning from the way I understand it. Yes in Thailand the way they certify things is by signing a copy, far short of what the Australian government want.

 

NOT acceptable:
  • photocopies or faxes of certified copies
  • certification by a company
  • certification where the identity of the certifying officer is unclear or illegible
  • certification made by persons not authorised to certify documents.

 

Please note:
  • Copies of documents will not be returned
  • Do not send original documents
  • You should keep a copy of all documents submitted.

 

It looks like we will have no choice but to send in the originals as the Consular wouldn't certify a copy of the original documents, i.e. they only certified the original as being an original signature of the department head who signed the certified form, and we don't need them as we have copies, anyway, now if we had to get the documents certified without finding a JP, we would have to use a notary who charge around 1,500 baht per page, that works out to about 16 pages or 24,000 baht vs 4,450 including postage doing it our way.

 

We now need about 6 pages signed by JP for the Australian documents as Thai's cannot certify them.

 

Posted
1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

I respectfully don't know where you re getting your information from ?

 

Is this relating to Australia ?

 

Who is authorised to certify my documents?

When certifying a proof of identification document use the following words:

This is a true copy of the original document, sighted by me [name], [signature], [date], [qualification you have to certify documents – e.g. JP],[Qualification Number – e.g. JP ID].

 

The list in the link is for those in Australia, not Thailand: https://www.australia-migration.com/page/Certified_copies/327

 

How should each document be certified?

Copies of documents

Each copy of every page of the original document must be certified separately and must show clearly:

  • the words "certified true copy of the original"
  • the original signature of the certifying officer
  • the name and address or provider and the registration number (where appropriate) of the certifying officer legibly printed below the signature.

The above said, all JP's have a registration number, the principal would not be a JP, nor an Australian Citizen and would therefore not qualify in the meaning from the way I understand it. Yes in Thailand the way they certify things is by signing a copy, far short of what the Australian government want.

 

NOT acceptable:
  • photocopies or faxes of certified copies
  • certification by a company
  • certification where the identity of the certifying officer is unclear or illegible
  • certification made by persons not authorised to certify documents.

 

Please note:
  • Copies of documents will not be returned
  • Do not send original documents
  • You should keep a copy of all documents submitted.

 

It looks like we will have no choice but to send in the originals as the Consular wouldn't certify a copy of the original documents, i.e. they only certified the original as being an original signature of the department head who signed the certified form, and we don't need them as we have copies, anyway, now if we had to get the documents certified without finding a JP, we would have to use a notary who charge around 1,500 baht per page, that works out to about 16 pages or 24,000 baht vs 4,450 including postage doing it our way.

 

We now need about 6 pages signed by JP for the Australian documents as Thai's cannot certify them.

 

The information is of the Australian Home Affairs site

I have just done Citz by Descent for son 

I am doing it from Auss but son is in Thailand - Department said it does not matter where you do it from, but they want to know where the applicant is (my son )

All I did was had my scanned copies signed by a police officer of 32 yrs who is also a JP (that is irrelivant ) stating they are true copies 

All went ok with Immi (online ) - All they wanted was proof that my wife was seeking medical care prior to birth of child 

All Translated docs where only signed/ect by Translator 

PS - also have 2 Family Sponsor Visas hanging in the air (due to CV 19 )

Posted
34 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

The information is of the Australian Home Affairs site

I have just done Citz by Descent for son 

I am doing it from Auss but son is in Thailand - Department said it does not matter where you do it from, but they want to know where the applicant is (my son )

All I did was had my scanned copies signed by a police officer of 32 yrs who is also a JP (that is irrelivant ) stating they are true copies 

All went ok with Immi (online ) - All they wanted was proof that my wife was seeking medical care prior to birth of child 

All Translated docs where only signed/ect by Translator 

PS - also have 2 Family Sponsor Visas hanging in the air (due to CV 19 )

Just went to Immi site

As said all Translations do not need to be certified

Only copies of originals need to be certified by any of the accredited people (it's all the same )

They only state to supply a licensed number if applicable IE - The princaple may have an Education deparment number - If not no problem as long as they state all their particulars 

  • Like 1
Posted
1 hour ago, BEVUP said:

I am doing it from Auss but son is in Thailand - Department said it does not matter where you do it from, but they want to know where the applicant is (my son )

All I did was had my scanned copies signed by a police officer of 32 yrs who is also a JP (that is irrelivant ) stating they are true copies 

That is the difference, a JP in Oz is free, how they can charge here is beyond me as it states that a JP cannot charge, that said, we have just found a Notary who will do the 6 docs for us for 3,000 baht or 500 each, happy with that as a Notary is usually a lawyer so got to pay for their time.

 

1 hour ago, BEVUP said:

All went ok with Immi (online )

That is the difference too, as we have to send them in, e.g. they don't allow VFS to do child visa's anymore, if that were the case, I could have used some old scanned certified copies, they wouldn't know the difference as they would get them online, but no good sending in scanned copies otherwise they will get rejected.

 

1 hour ago, BEVUP said:

All Translated docs where only signed/ect by Translator 

Translated docs in Oz are usually certified on the 2nd or last page and usually certified by a JP if a certified copy is required.

Posted
43 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Just went to Immi site

As said all Translations do not need to be certified

Only copies of originals need to be certified by any of the accredited people (it's all the same )

They only state to supply a licensed number if applicable IE - The princaple may have an Education deparment number - If not no problem as long as they state all their particulars 

Yes agree, only saw this after replying to the other post, anyone on the list can sign, but from my experience in the past in Oz, translations usually have a JP onsite who signs them for you at no extra cost.

Posted
16 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Yes agree, only saw this after replying to the other post, anyone on the list can sign, but from my experience in the past in Oz, translations usually have a JP onsite who signs them for you at no extra cost.

Forget about the Auss side your in Thailand & this is where where my son is (which makes it much easier )  even though i am doing this from Auss 

I only mentioned that he was a JP because he is one otherwise as just being a Police officer of some 30 yrs would of been ok

A copy is a copy 

Had to have wife either take photo on phone (if clear enough ) or get her to get the Translator to email them to me (since my old computer crashed )

Then print them & have Police officer sign scan again & send 

Posted
13 hours ago, BEVUP said:

Forget about the Auss side your in Thailand & this is where where my son is (which makes it much easier )  even though i am doing this from Auss 

I only mentioned that he was a JP because he is one otherwise as just being a Police officer of some 30 yrs would of been ok

A copy is a copy 

Had to have wife either take photo on phone (if clear enough ) or get her to get the Translator to email them to me (since my old computer crashed )

Then print them & have Police officer sign scan again & send 

I think I understand what your saying ?

 

Your getting your stuff certified by a JP in Oz, wife will provide you a clear photo of originals, or the Translator will provide you with the original translations by email so you can print and get your friend who is a JP to certify, all and good, then you scan and upload on the system to them.

 

For me being here, everything has to be posted to them, so no scanning and uploading which is the bummer, otherwise I would send them via email to my friend who is a JP and she could certify and email back to me, but VFS are no longer allowed to do Child Visa applications, they have to be forwarded to the immigration branch in Western Australia which makes it all that harder, i.e. have to send in certified copies, no JP's here that we can find, but have a Notary who will sign off for us for 500 baht per document (6) in all, and then we go over everything and copy everything and forward it all to them.

 

Hopefully the visas can be approved by for travel by November so I can get everyone there so that we can enrol the kids into schools for the following year (2021), as I know the next step after lodging the applications by post is to wait for them to ask us for police checks here and in Thailand for me and the wife (if they want) and the boys police checks here (if the want) and we will all have to travel to Bangkok which is a 10 hour drive each way, and after that wait for them to request a medical check for the boys which we can do in Udon Thani and the doctor sends that to them online.

 

The only thing that I am not sure of is the police check in Oz, (they want the original) so do they post it to us or send it to them online with an assessment number, if they are going to post it to us will provide them with my daughter address in Oz for her to forward it to them in Western Australia with the assessment number.

 

Stress for you, stress for me, but we are almost there ????

 

Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

in other words, they stamp the original document and certify it as a true original, they DO NOT provide you with additional copies certified even though they have sighted the original, CRAZY.

 

Their reasoning for that is that they are not qualified to certify copies, W-T-F- you just stamped and certified the original, and you cannot certify a copy, even if we pay you the same amount for the original being stamped and certified as being a true original....Thailand has gone made.

I am confused, why do you need certified copies of translations. 

 

It appears what the consulate was doing above is authenticating the original, which is why they stamped the original, they were correct in stating they can't authenticate a copy.    

 

As to certified copies, if you are applying from outside Australia and you don't know an Australian citizen (who can witness), have your documents certified by someone who: is a citizen of the country you are in, is not related to you (by birth, marriage or de facto relationship), works in one of the occupations listed below.

 

Occupations

  • Australian consular officer or Australian diplomatic officer (check if this service is available at your nearest Australian embassy or consulate)
  • bailiff
  • bank officer with 5 or more years of continuous service
  • building society officer with 5 or more years of continuous service
  • chiropractor (licensed or registered)
  • clerk of court
  • commissioner for affidavits
  • commissioner for declarations
  • credit union officer with 5 or more years of continuous service
  • dentist (licensed or registered)
  • fellow of the National Tax Accountant's Association
  • finance company officer with 5 or more years of continuous service
  • judge of a court
  • justice of the peace
  • legal practitioner (licensed or registered)
  • magistrate
  • marriage celebrant licensed or registered under Subdivision C of Division 1 of Part IV of the Marriage Act 1961
  • master of a court
  • medical practitioner (licensed or registered)
  • member of Chartered Secretaries Australia
  • member of Engineers Australia, other than at the grade of student
  • member of the Association of Taxation and Management Accountants
  • member of the Australian Defence Force with 5 or more years of continuous service
  • member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia, the Australian Society of Certified Practicing Accountants or the Institute of Public Accountants
  • member of the Parliament of the Commonwealth, a State, a Territory Legislature, or a local government authority of a State or Territory
  • minister of religion licensed or registered under Subdivision A of Division 1 of Part IV of the Marriage Act 1961
  • nurse (licensed or registered)
  • optometrist (licensed or registered)
  • permanent employee of Australian, state or local government authority with at least 5 or more years of continuous service.
  • permanent employee of the Australian Postal Corporation with 5 or more years of continuous service
  • pharmacist (licensed or registered)
  • physiotherapist (licensed or registered)
  • police officer
  • psychologist (licensed or registered)
  • registrar or deputy registrar of a court
  • sheriff
  • teacher employed on a full-time basis at a school or tertiary education institution, or
  • veterinary surgeon (licensed or registered)
Edited by PhanomR
Posted

You only need the copy of Originals to be checked by anyone on the list

Since you are in Thailand nothing needs to be certified

? Why cant you do this online through Immi ( Even though I'm in Auss I stated on application my son is in Thailand )

I had nothing Certified - Just got the copy of originals signed (Stating they are true copies )

If it says Police check for the kids I would get them now 

once you submit they will send the info about Bios & medical (you have to make the appointments ) & you will only have 2 weeks to do

? Why do you & wife need Police checks - dont you hold Auss Citz & passports

 

  • Thanks 1
Posted
20 minutes ago, PhanomR said:

I am confused, why do you need certified copies of translations. 

Thanks for your input, as all contributing here are well appreciated, but be prepared to as we have found out it is not an easy process to get documents certified as easily as it is back home, however I have laid it out as best I can from our experience, i.e. from our understanding, all documents translated from Thai to English MUST be sealed by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand, otherwise they are not worth the paper they are written on, and cannot be certified, if they aren't, they won't be accepted by the Australian government, now that might be debatable, I don't know, as the Australian government states that the originals must be certified, sounds easy, but the only way to get the originals to be certified, is by getting the originals authenticated first, so we have found, refer to below.

 

The Child 101 Visa application Document Checklist if sending from (Thailand or Laos) states, word for word: Noting that you cannot do it online, and no VFS, they used to provide the service but no longer do. All documents must be send to Western Australia, the only other things you have to do, come at a later stage, police checks in Bangkok and Australia where only originals will be accepted i.e. (if they require you to do police checks), and a medical check for the children, (if required) private hospital up the road an hours drive where the doctor sends to them direct online.

 

Heading: Should I provide original documents?

 

Generally no. Do not provide original documents unless specifically requested. You should provide 'certified copies' of original documentation. Documents not in English must be accompanied by accredited English translations. 'Certified copies' are copies authorised, or stamped as being true copies of originals.

 

The above said, we had the Thai documents translated to English at the local amphur as advised by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand, who stated that all translated documents to English must be authenticated by their department otherwise they aren't worth the paper they are written on. Even a translated document that the amphur couldn't translate, which had to be translated to English by an external translator (cost for the translation for one page 500 baht), had to be authenticated as 'Seen by' the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand and sealed.

 

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand stated that the amphur could translate the documents at a much cheaper rate than a translator could, and it was a new service to assist Thai's with the over the top costs, suffice to say the cost was 20 baht per page Vs 500 baht per page by a translator, therefore reducing the cost for Thai's, but we then needed the signatories of the English translated documents given to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand to Certify that the Signatures are Genuine, i.e. once they had the documents they would check their data base against the signatories and would put Certified Genuine Signatures, cost 200 baht per page. Each document would then be sealed with their stamp and that little square piece of paper with the branch location, date and number would be glued to the bottom of the paper/document or on the back of the paper/document.

 

The above said, we were also told that we could get certified copies there as well, for an extra 200 baht per page, but when we arrived were told that they could not provide certified copies as they were not authorised to, suffice to say, what we have is originals of translated English documents from the amphur which the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand has stated they are Certified Genuine Signatures of the original English translated documents from the amphur... so in your words, they are authenticated originals, not certified copies, so we are going to send them what we have, i.e. the originals, to Australia, we will make copies, and my wife has a 2nd set from the amphur as they were cheap enough at 20 baht per document. 

 

I will put a covering letter explaining to them that they couldn't provide certified copies due to the cost involved to pay a notary per page as there are no JP's here to certify copies for us and that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand is not authorised to certify copies outside of it's department, only bio-pages of passports as they have done, so we are only sending the originals as we won't be needing them back and therefore reducing the extra outlay as we don't need the originals back, i.e. unless they wish to send them to my PO Box In New South Wales.

 

 The amphor provided us a translated English document with the heading as follows: 

 

Certified Form of Birth Registration (Birth Certificate)

and at the bottom of the English translation it states:

Certified particulars from Civil Registration Database,

the date,

the person's signature and

their name in English with their title under it, e.g.

Registrar

 

As mentioned, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand authenticated them and we are not going to pay 500-1,500 baht per page to have them certified, crazy, but and as we don't need them they can have them.

 

20 minutes ago, PhanomR said:

It appears what the consulate was doing above is authenticating the original, which is why they stamped the original, they were correct in stating they can't authenticate a copy.    

Yes, but did say they could provide certified copies, well partly true only, passport pages, so if we want certified copies we have pay more to a Notary, 500 baht per page, cheapest we could find, so that is out of the question, it's money down the drain, they can have the originals, even if they don't ask for require them.

 

21 minutes ago, PhanomR said:

As to certified copies, if you are applying from outside Australia and you don't know an Australian citizen (who can witness), have your documents certified by someone who: is a citizen of the country you are in, is not related to you (by birth, marriage or de facto relationship), works in one of the occupations listed below.

From that list, I can only see that an embassy would be permitted to certify the documents as a true copy, the list from my understanding is for Australians, not Thai's, if you scroll down the list, in your post, you will see for one:  permanent employee of the Australian Postal Corporation with 5 or more years of continuous service

 

It doesn't say anywhere anyone on the list from the country you are in, and being a JP for 3 decades, I was aware of the list, because at times when I wasn't available to certify docs for someone I would mention a few from that list.

 

Feel free to correct me on that, times change, maybe I haven't adapted to such a change, but unless it's clearer, it's meant for those on the list in Australia.

Posted
2 hours ago, BEVUP said:

You only need the copy of Originals to be checked by anyone on the list

Since you are in Thailand nothing needs to be certified

? Why cant you do this online through Immi ( Even though I'm in Auss I stated on application my son is in Thailand )

I had nothing Certified - Just got the copy of originals signed (Stating they are true copies )

If it says Police check for the kids I would get them now 

once you submit they will send the info about Bios & medical (you have to make the appointments ) & you will only have 2 weeks to do

? Why do you & wife need Police checks - dont you hold Auss Citz & passports

 

Good luck with your application, but I think you are going to hit a brick wall if you haven't had your documents authenticated by the Department of Foreign Affairs in Thailand, you see from my understanding the certified copies won't be accepted as it states that 'Certified copies' are copies authorised, or stamped as being true copies of originals.

 

Now the question is did you get the originals authenticated by the Department of Foreign Affairs ?

If not you are providing them with certified copies of original document/s, i.e that are not authorised, or stamped.

 

My wife and I are Australian citizens who have lived here for more than 12 months in the past 10 years, as we have in Australia, and are over 16 so part of the required, might be that we need to get police checks in both Australia and Thailand.

 

The boys had their bio's done last September when they travelled to Australia on tourist visas so doubt that they will need to do them again.

 

Sorry about the bold text problem at my end.

Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

The above said, we had the Thai documents translated to English at the local amphur as advised by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand

While there is nothing wrong with doing it this way, it's completely unnecessary. 

 

So the easier option is to get them professionally translated by a translation company in Thailand and then get someone listed in the above posted occupations to certify them. The translation company should be able to get copies certified for you. 

 

49 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

had to be authenticated as 'Seen by' the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand and sealed.

There is no requirement for any documents to be authenticated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand, Thailand requires it the other way (documents from other countries) but Australia doesn't.

 

49 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Yes, but did say they could provide certified copies, well partly true only, passport pages, so if we want certified copies we have pay more to a Notary, 500 baht per page, cheapest we could find

I have explained the cheapest way already.

 

49 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

From that list, I can only see that an embassy would be permitted to certify the documents as a true copy, the list from my understanding is for Australians, not Thai's

This list is for both in Australia and overseas, if you are outside Australia and don't know any Australian citizen that are listed, you can get a Thai person (or whatever country your in) who holds the same occupation as listed to certify the documents. Not hard to find a police officer, nurse, teacher etc in Thailand. 

 

49 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

It doesn't say anywhere anyone on the list from the country you are in

Yes it does, see here under overview https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/help-support/applying-online-or-on-paper/on-paper/certified-copy

 

If you are applying from outside Australia and you don't know an Australian citizen, have your documents certified by someone who:

  • is a citizen of the country you are in
  • is not related to you (by birth, marriage or de facto relationship)
  • works in one of the occupations listed below
49 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

being a JP for 3 decades

If you were still a JP you could have certified them yourself. 

Edited by PhanomR
Posted
6 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

The only thing that I am not sure of is the police check in Oz, (they want the original) so do they post it to us or send it to them online with an assessment number, if they are going to post it to us will provide them with my daughter address in Oz for her to forward it to them in Western Australia with the assessment number.

You will need to send the original. Will be easier to get them to send it to your daughter in Australia and get her to get a certified copy (in Australia) and send the original in for you. 

 

Certified for incase it gets lost. 

  • Like 1
Posted
2 hours ago, PhanomR said:

You will need to send the original. Will be easier to get them to send it to your daughter in Australia and get her to get a certified copy (in Australia) and send the original in for you. 

 

Certified for incase it gets lost. 

Thanks for that, will do, and the 'Certified Copy', yeh, great idea ????

Posted
3 hours ago, PhanomR said:

While there is nothing wrong with doing it this way, it's completely unnecessary. 

 

So the easier option is to get them professionally translated by a translation company in Thailand and then get someone listed in the above posted occupations to certify them. The translation company should be able to get copies certified for you. 

Sorry to say this, but I have to totally disagree with you. The Thai translation company that the Australian government will accept for English translated documents from Thailand, should be NAATI Certified as they are in the same are in Australia, that said, they are registered with the government and the government will accept their certified English translations as they can check on the person signing them, here in Thailand we had one document translated through them (NAATI) starts at 500 baht, and for them to certify it, they wanted an extra 1,000 baht, whereas getting the Department of Foreign Affairs Thailand, to authenticate the document costs 400 baht, big difference and the Australian government will accept that, suffice to say if you want to get that certified by a Notary it can cost you as much as doing it with the NAATI Translation company, but we will be sending in the originals as we have no need for them and it is cheaper to do it this way, 420 baht per page/document vs 900-2,000 per page/document, but they are getting the originals, not certified copies.

 

3 hours ago, PhanomR said:

There is no requirement for any documents to be authenticated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand, Thailand requires it the other way (documents from other countries) but Australia doesn't.

Only if they are a NAATI approved translation company as mentioned above, but you will pay through the nose for the service, in other words it's a rort. It's like why would you pay 200 baht for a beer when you can pay 60 baht for the same beer at a different venue down the road, for the privilege, yeh right, no thanks ????

We have had the English translated documents as mentioned provided by the amphur which the Australian government will accept as long as they are stamped, authorised by the Department of Foreign Affairs of Thailand, as mentioned for a fraction of the amount the NAATI translators want to certify them.

 

3 hours ago, PhanomR said:

I have explained the cheapest way already.

Your way is more costly, as mentioned above, the amphur way is a cheaper alternative for Thai's as you know are not rich, so 20 baht per page/document Vs 500 baht for the NAATI translator, then 200 baht for the Department of Foreign Affairs of Thailand to stamp/authorise them vs 1500-2,000 for NAATI to certify them.

3 hours ago, PhanomR said:

This list is for both in Australia and overseas, if you are outside Australia and don't know any Australian citizen that are listed, you can get a Thai person (or whatever country your in) who holds the same occupation as listed to certify the documents. Not hard to find a police officer, nurse, teacher etc in Thailand. 

Again this is for Australia only, this list cannot be done in another country, passports perhaps as I had an Australian citizen witness our the back of our daughters photos when renewing their passports

 

3 hours ago, PhanomR said:

Yes it does, see here under overview https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/help-support/applying-online-or-on-paper/on-paper/certified-copy

 

If you are applying from outside Australia and you don't know an Australian citizen, have your documents certified by someone who:

  • is a citizen of the country you are in
  • is not related to you (by birth, marriage or de facto relationship)
  • works in one of the occupations listed below

This to me is for a passport application and does not apply to the Child Visa, it might also be for other documents, but it's the first time I have heard of it.

 

3 hours ago, PhanomR said:

If you were still a JP you could have certified them yourself. 

As a JP, I you cannot certify your own or family members documents, that is a BIG NO !

Posted
14 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Sorry to say this, but I have to totally disagree with you.

That's OK, but at least provide some evidence to back up your opinion. 

 

14 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

The Thai translation company that the Australian government will accept for English translated documents from Thailand, should be NAATI Certified as they are in the same are in Australia

NAATI is an Australian organisation of little relevance overseas, foreign translators don't require or need to be NAATI certified, but all translations done in Australia for immigration need to done by a NAATI certified translator. 

 

This is clearly stated on Home affairs website under Subclass 101 child visa (under documents/translate) https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/child-101#HowTo

Translate

Quote

Have all non-English documents translated into English.

Translators in Australia must be accredited by the National Accreditation Authority for Translators and Interpreters.

Translators outside Australia do not have to be accredited. But on each translation, they must include their:

  • full name
  • address and telephone number
  • qualifications and experience in the language they are translating

These details must be in English.

 

 

14 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Only if they are a NAATI approved translation company as mentioned above,

No, the Australia immigration doesn't require any document to be authenticated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand for a visa application. Not sure what buying beer has to do with anything.

 

Authentication of a document is waste of time and money, but feel free to do it, but its not required or necessary. 

 

14 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Again this is for Australia only, this list cannot be done in another country, passports perhaps as I had an Australian citizen witness our the back of our daughters photos when renewing their passports

Yes it can be done in another country, it's taken from Home affairs Subclass 101 Child visa website

 

If you go to https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/child-101#HowTo and click step 2 and look under Certify and click on the hyperlink on the word certified it takes you here https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/help-support/applying-online-or-on-paper/on-paper/certified-copy 

Quote

If you are applying from outside Australia and you don't know an Australian citizen, have your documents certified by someone who:

  • is a citizen of the country you are in
  • is not related to you (by birth, marriage or de facto relationship)
  • works in one of the occupations listed below

 

14 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

This to me is for a passport application and does not apply to the Child Visa, it might also be for other documents, but it's the first time I have heard of it.

It applies to SubClass 101 visas and every other paper visa application.  Online visa's just need a colour scan of the original uploaded. 

 

Certified means next to nothing these days and is dying out within Australia Government as things become paperless, if immigration have doubts about the document they will just request the original. 

 


 

 

  • Like 1
Posted
4 hours ago, PhanomR said:

That's OK, but at least provide some evidence to back up your opinion. 

 

NAATI is an Australian organisation of little relevance overseas, foreign translators don't require or need to be NAATI certified, but all translations done in Australia for immigration need to done by a NAATI certified translator. 

 

This is clearly stated on Home affairs website under Subclass 101 child visa (under documents/translate) https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/child-101#HowTo

Translate

 

 

No, the Australia immigration doesn't require any document to be authenticated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand for a visa application. Not sure what buying beer has to do with anything.

 

Authentication of a document is waste of time and money, but feel free to do it, but its not required or necessary. 

 

Yes it can be done in another country, it's taken from Home affairs Subclass 101 Child visa website

 

If you go to https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/child-101#HowTo and click step 2 and look under Certify and click on the hyperlink on the word certified it takes you here https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/help-support/applying-online-or-on-paper/on-paper/certified-copy 

 

It applies to SubClass 101 visas and every other paper visa application.  Online visa's just need a colour scan of the original uploaded. 

 

Certified means next to nothing these days and is dying out within Australia Government as things become paperless, if immigration have doubts about the document they will just request the original. 

 


 

 

Thanks for persevering with me, sometimes, actually not sometimes, you have to admit when your wrong, so I will say I am wrong, but only on some points so far, I will need to confirm the other points on Monday and will explain as we go along and provide an update on Monday, if I was totally wrong, which may actually be the case, I will admit it, but let's wait till Monday, hoping to save some face ????

 

Regarding NAATI, well what can I say, follow the lead of the wife and this is what happens, blame shifting...lol, that said, it appears the way she went about getting the documents translated to English at the amphur was a cost saving measure, e.g. 20 baht per document vs 500 baht per at a translation agency, after getting the documents translated to English at the amphur, she then had to get them stamped at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for Thailand for them to be authenticated, cost 200 baht each, so a total of 220 baht per document vs 500 baht per document, that said, are they accredited translators, well I am assuming that if the MFA certifies their signatures on the English translations, they are acceptable, hopefully. Then you have to ask yourself it was wroth driving 5 hours each way to get it done and her paying the 1,200 baht in fuel, well let's do the calculations. 

 

21 documents x 20 baht at Amphur, + 21 documents x 200 baht at MFA = 4,620 + 1,200 in fuel = 5,820 baht

 

21 documents x 500 baht at a translation agency = 10,500 baht

 

She is still ahead 4,680 baht, so the exercise saved her a good amount of money, albeit it if I was paying for it, I would have paid the extra 4,680 baht to save me the 10 hour return drive vs the one hour drive to collect the documents from the translation company.

 

I will give the embassy a call in Australia come Monday morning to see about the overseas list, and if for example a teacher can certify true copies, then I will get them to certify my birth certificate, the wife's Australian Citizenship Certificate, and a few other docs which will save her a further 500 baht a document getting it done by the Notary.

 

Will update you on Monday.

 

????????????

 

 

Posted
On 6/20/2020 at 4:30 PM, 4MyEgo said:

fter getting the documents translated to English at the amphur, she then had to get them stamped at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for Thailand for them to be authenticated, cost 200 baht each, so a total of 220 baht per document vs 500 baht per document,

She could have just got the translations for 20 baht and submitted them without getting them authenticated to save money, (if the translations were done as per requirement)

 

On 6/20/2020 at 4:30 PM, 4MyEgo said:

Ministry of Foreign Affairs for Thailand for them to be authenticated, cost 200 baht each, so a total of 220 baht per document vs 500 baht per document, that said, are they accredited translators, well I am assuming that if the MFA certifies their signatures on the English translations, they are acceptable,

Authentication doesn't mean they meet the translation requirements, it simple means they are original documents and the signature is real. I hope the translations meet the requirement of having the full name address and telephone number qualifications and experience in the language they are translating. 

 

Shouldn't be an issue. (I hope.)

 

On 6/20/2020 at 4:30 PM, 4MyEgo said:

I will give the embassy a call in Australia come Monday morning to see about the overseas list, and if for example a teacher can certify true copies,

Not sure why you would take the word of someone over the phone vs in writing on the official website!, just remember the embassy/home affairs are renowned for give wrong advice over the phone.    

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, PhanomR said:

She could have just got the translations for 20 baht and submitted them without getting them authenticated to save money, (if the translations were done as per requirement)

The thing is, we were advised by the amphur that they could translate the documents we required, however they would have to be certified/authenticated if you like by the MFA otherwise they would not be accepted outside the country, this was also confirmed by the MFA, so we were looking at crossing our t's and dotting our i's, one goes has to go with the other, and I suppose it makes sense, the amphur makes a coin and the MFA makes a coin taking the work away from the translators, while saving their own citizens money in the process, albeit it there is some travel involved. That kind of makes sense to me.

 

58 minutes ago, PhanomR said:

Authentication doesn't mean they meet the translation requirements, it simple means they are original documents and the signature is real. I hope the translations meet the requirement of having the full name address and telephone number qualifications and experience in the language they are translating. 

 

Shouldn't be an issue. (I hope.)

Apparently in this situation it does, i.e. if the MFA stamps it certifying the signature of the person signing the certified form, e.g. what we have is a government form with its Thai logo on it with the heading:

                     

                       Certified Form of Civil Registration Record from Registration Database

                                                      Central Registration Bureau

 

Then the details in English and at the bottom it says:

 

                                  Certified particulars from the Civil Registration Database

                                                                On   5 June 2020

                                                                      Signature

                                                       ........................................................

                                                 (MRS. WHATEVER YOUWANNACALLME)

                                                                       Registrar

 

So from where I am coming from, this translation was provided by the government department at our local town where all of the information is stored in their database and signed off by their registrar. Then the MFA authenticating it, so as to say the registrar is confirmed as the signatory signing off on this, so I think that should be acceptable, as you say, (hope) that it shouldn't be an issue. Fingers crossed.

 

58 minutes ago, PhanomR said:

Not sure why you would take the word of someone over the phone vs in writing on the official website!, just remember the embassy/home affairs are renowned for give wrong advice over the phone. 

I haven't had to deal with the embassy/home affairs today, but as I said, I would call them, and was on hold when you sent this to me, I tried the embassy at Thailand, but phone kept ringing so went to Australia and was on hold for 17 minutes, worth the call, and you are 100% correct, the person on the phone said they would check, came back to me 2 minutes later and said she triple checked, and yes, as long as the person certifying the documents are a citizen of the country we are in, is not related to us, and is on the list and meets the requirements on that list.

 

The wife knows a school teacher and a policeman, so next step is to get them to start certifying, but not before we have all of their details to fill in on the forms, so all they will have to do is sign their names.

 

Many thanks for your perseverance and assistance, we learn something everyday, even when we think we are right. I was wrong and admit it. It would have also been easier to get things done by translator, but I am not the one paying for it, so she saved around 5,000 baht which to a Thai is a lot, especially when she has the Child 101 Visa application fees to pay as well for 2 kids, that said you also just saved her another 3,000 to 4,000 baht by canceling her 10am appointment for today at the Notary, so it's also thanks from her, job well done.

 

Just to finish off, the local waterhole opened up on the quiet the other night and I ran it by an Ozzie there, and he said, yep, you can get it done here by a Thai citizen if they are on the list, he said he had also saw that on the website when he was looking to get something certified, as he knows I surrendered my JP status earlier this year so he was out of luck getting me to certify stuff for him anymore. 

        

Again, many thanks ????

 

Edit: I just received an email back from the embassy here in Thailand that I sent a week plus ago, they can certify for $73 per page, gotta love em, not !

Edited by 4MyEgo
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

The thing is, we were advised by the amphur that they could translate the documents we required, however they would have to be certified/authenticated if you like by the MFA otherwise they would not be accepted outside the country

In most cases the Amphur means we'll, but they really have no idea about the visa requirements for Australia (nor should they) the information about authentication is correct for the reverse in Thailand ie forgein documents used in Thailand, (as Thailand is also not a party to the Hague Convention Abolishing the Requirement for Legalization for Foreign Public Documents) so they are trying to help. But it's not correct because Australia was a signatory to the Hague convention.

 

7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Apparently in this situation it does, i.e. if the MFA stamps it certifying the signature of the person signing the certified form

Not quite, what they are doing is certifying a Thai government document that is in english. It's a bit of chicken or egg came first sort of thing. Ie you have supplied the document in english so a translation isn't needed vs suppling a correctly translated certified thai document with English translation.

 

I don't think you will have any issues with it, but it's around about way of doing it.

7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

ringing so went to Australia and was on hold for 17 minutes, worth the call, and you are 100% correct, the person on the phone said they would check, came back to me 2 minutes later and said she triple checked, and yes, as long as the person certifying the documents are a citizen of the country we are in, is not related to us, and is on the list and meets the requirements on that list.

Glad you got someone who bothered to check. As I said before the government is very very careful before they put something in writing, so you can take information on their website as correct (even if it's not)

 

7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Child 101 Visa application fees to pay as well for 2 kids, that said you also just saved her another 3,000 to 4,000 baht by canceling her 10am appointment for today at the Notary, so it's also thanks from her, job well done

You're welcome, as I said the wsy you did it isn't wrong, it's just a very round about way of doing things.

 

7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

he knows I surrendered my JP status earlier this year so he was out of luck getting me to certify stuff for him anymore.

You're were correct before, that JP can't certify documents for immigration for family members, just looked it up.

 

Assumed as they can for family for most Commonwealth documents they could for immigration.

 

I remember many years ago getting a visa for my girlfriend (now wife) at VFS and missed getting something certified and the staff said they couldn't accept the application as it wasn't certified. I said give it to me and I would certified it now, as I was authorised to, caused all sorts of kerfuffle, managers called, no you can't do it etc etc. I did and was never an issue.

 

7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

they can certify for $73 per page, gotta love em,

Yeah went from free to stupid prices about 6 or 7 years ago. 

Edited by PhanomR
  • Like 1
Posted
7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

The wife knows a school teacher and a policeman, so next step is to get them to start certifying, but not before we have all of their details to fill in on the forms, so all they will have to do is sign their names.

Best to do it this way so the wording is correct.

  • Like 1
Posted

Just got Sons Auss Citizenship

Even though I did it online in Auss (stating that son was in Thailand ) it came via email signed from Bangkok

Wife should have extract in 7 - 10 days 

So now for Passport 

  • Like 2

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