Financials for first 1 year marriage extension non O mutiple

[Kalasin Jo]

Hi all,

 

Background

I've posted before that I am a UK passport holder and live here in LOS only for about half the year. I obtained a non O multiple entry based on marriage from Savanakhet consulate last year  ( after several years of annual extensions and 400k in the bank!). The  Savanakhet expired on 16 January this year. I entered Thailand at Swampy on it on 11 January and got 90 days stay as expected. Along came Covid and then border closures so no trip to Savanakhet for a new visa.  So I extended by 60 days at Kalasin IO. No problem. That expired on 9 June. Unfortunately did this just before the full amnesty was announced expiring currently 31 July so can't try that again!

 

This week

Thought I'd go along to Kalasin IO to ask about their requirements for a 1 year extension based on marriage and income thinking that could be my easiest / safest option. Who knows now how easy international travel, even a border run,  will be from now on? And going for it soon would avoid the queueing, frustration, overwhelmed, grumpy IOs etc  that I'm sure we'll face then. And after 5 months here my wife and I want to leave so having that extension ( and re entry permit) would be handy when foreigners are allowed back in.

 

Office very quiet compared to the 60 day extension visit. 1 person waiting for return of her passport. Nobody else our side of the counters. Staff pleasant and tried to be helpful. No complaints there. The list was as expected.... at first.

 

But I ran in to trouble on the financials. On Monday I was told either 400k in the bank or 2 months (  60 days )  of 40k " income" with proof it was  coming from abroad. A bit of a problem there as my Bankok Bank statements do not show the transfers as foreign.  So I asked if statement plus a letter from BB confirming and listing the transfers identified  as foreign originating would do the trick. Yes.

 

Today obtained account statement and said letter confirming the account and listing the transfers confirmed as foreign originating. Did an in/ out transaction and updated passbook just to  be safe and to show them too. If all had been fine, my wife and I would have gone in to do it tomorrow or Monday.

 

Many posters here have said that such a paper trail is sufficient at many Immigration Offices. Often I note using TransferWise for it.

 

Back to the IO to check that this sorted the financial requirements. It did not. First person I saw  ( not the one I saw on Monday) was uncertain and fetched a colleague, a supervisor I guess. He looked at what I had, confirmed the amounts were enough but that they want evidence of the source of the "income". I suggested a print out from my online UK banking? No, need to know what is the source in the UK I was getting the money from. Was it government pension? Partly I said I do get one as I am a UK state pensioner. ( And we all know it is not enough anymore). I said also from a private investment scheme  from which I draw as necessary ( all done online) and actually use for my Thailand trips and wife support. Have done for 8 years now.

 

I have no paperwork here evidencing either my UK state pension or the investment scheme. I wasn't expecting to be facing this! My state pension isn't even paid to me in the UK, but in France .  The sums I draw from the scheme do not match the transfers anyway which have not been a straight single monthly sum either but do add up to more than 40k a month, every month, since I arrived at the beginning of this year as the bank statement (  6 months) showed quite clearly.

 

Oh he says then sorry,  cannot. Ouch! My favourite Thai expression, I hear it so often!. He then said can you put 400k in BB because that would solve the problem. Unfortunately cannot this year I said ( so we didn't get in to whether he would want it seasoned for 2 months). Oh then we cannot, so sorry. You must get new visa from Savanakhet when borders open again  and do next year with 400k in the bank, yes?.

 

I left it at that with a resigned thank you for your help ( not! But it pays to be polite right?). I was not, after all.  making an actual application.

 

Reflecting on this as I drove home to give my wife the news, I thought that really he was asking for the "proof" that the Embassy income letters give them...only of course the UK has stopped doing them because they don't check whether whatever we tell them is true. It is unfortunate that the Embassy letter fiction accepted by all as the needed proof for so many years is one the UK suddenly became too scrupulous to continue. A few felt and did the same . Most continue to provide those letters and the Thais continue to gladly accept them. 

 

So there you have it folks, that's the Kalasin approach for me anyway. Undoubtedly without Embassy letters they would prefer it if we all just stuck 400k in the bank, as many of you who do spend all year, every year, here have done. A bit OTT if you don't spend all your life here, and something requiring a  bit of forward financial planning in my case too. Probably that's where I'll end up, again,  but çan't be done at the moment.

[Mitkof Island]

Just wait a few weeks and hopefully the staff will change.

[238917_1469957665]

I’m near same situation as you and now back on tourist status. I must make new Non O M visa and have 400K on the account but not 2 month yet.

Did they accept you not need to go outside country and make a new valid 3 month Non O visa first ?.

 

[Kalasin Jo]

4 hours ago, 238917_1469957665 said:

I’m near same situation as you and now back on tourist status. I must make new Non O M visa and have 400K on the account but not 2 month yet.

Did they accept you not need to go outside country and make a new valid 3 month Non O visa first ?.

 

4 hours ago, 238917_1469957665 said:

 Not clear because I was asking about an income based extension. I do have to leave and get a new non O marriage be it a single 90 days or a multiple entry if I can't produce the evidence they want of income origin.

 

He wanted me to stick 400 k in the bank instead of that. We didn't talk about seasoning it before I apply on that basis and whether I'd have to leave if not seasoned for 2 months when the amnesty ends.

 

My 90 day permission and  60 day extension have been used and ended. I've been here 153 days and I'd be on overstay but for the amnesty I believe.

 

So as I am unable to put 400k in the bank and leave it there untouched anytime soon I will have to leave when amnesty ends and only come back as visa exempt, on a tourist visa or with a new non O marriage visa. All will require meeting whatever Covid related conditions of entry they may decide to introduce to allow foreigners ( and which foreigners) in again. So it could be some time before I can return. Wife not at all happy that we face the prospect of a long separation of many months. Nor am I. Unfortunately that happened last year though nothing to do with visas.

[JackThompson]

23 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

... He looked at what I had, confirmed the amounts were enough but that they want evidence of the source of the "income".
... No, need to know what is the source in the UK I was getting the money from. Was it government pension?

There you have it.  Another honest-applicant with sufficient funds, denied an extension to Stay With His Wife.  I sympathize.  Been there myself at 3 offices.  A different blocker reason was used each time (Jomtien, Issan, Chiang Wattana) -  but in Issan, they gave me the same one as you, and that was also the only office where they were polite to my wife and I about it.  I suspect this fake-rule comes down from the District level, there. 

 

Nice the IO suggested you get another visa - my last experience (Chiang Wattana) they told me my using the Non-O-ME was "illegal" and I would "never get another one."

 

BTW, lying on an embassy letter is a felony for Americans - I suspect for you as well.  If found indigent later, we could be reported to OUR authorities, plus blacklisted.  The problem was not the nature of the letters, it was that the letters made it possible for more Honest Applicants to avoid using agents.

 

I have discussed, with my wife, the possibly having to live in Cambodia or elsewhere, unless/until the Non-O-ME becomes available, again - but won't start worrying about it seriously until July 15 or so, when the options should be more clear.

 

[anwa]

7 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

 

If you send money with Transferwise to Bangkok Bank,you have to choose the option longstay.Then it show FTT(international transfer) in your bankbook.I send money early morning and get it after 2 p.m same day.

 

[Kalasin Jo]

Thank you for your replies. Thank you JackThompson for your sympathy too. The District Office to which these marriage extension applications are sent is Khon Kaen and I wonder too whether this is their doing.

 

Yes Tansferwise might work, obviously does for many IOs, but if a letter from BBL listing the transfers in  that are of foreign origin is not acceptable why would that work any better?

 

The guy was clear that he wanted evidence of the UK source ( the payer)  of the of the payments as I posted in my very long post.  He looked confused though when I asked if that was to  counter possible fraud, money laundering or proceeds from criminal activity! He simply  asked whether I was a pensioner on a government pension but again looked confused when I said yes, but not enough so the money comes from other UK sources.

 

I inferred he wanted the income to come from a regular monthly pension source. Got the impression he really wanted to see a single monthly transfer in of 40k plus, not the several, differing amounts as needs dictated, totalling 40k plus monthly, that I have been doing since January. He wanted it to be on the lets KISS principle. Let's keep it simple stupid. For them the Embassy income letter was, as is the  400k in the bank.

 

By way of a comparison and FYI if interested ( if not don't read further!) when not in Thailand I live in France not the UK. As a consequence of Brexit some  Brits there are finding out some uncomfortable things. For example, the French too require from  inactives, (ie retirees, early retirees, simply not working or intending to) seeking formal / legal residency or claiming they are already formally / legally resident in France to prove adequate resources to support yourself and family annually for the first 5 years  ( not so very different in minimum amount to Thailand on recent exchange rates for the baht!) plus adequate health insurance until you have entered the state healthcare system which is roughly 30% self insured ( but insurable) anyway , contributary and means assessed. Criminality checking may be done too. 

 

They too can be difficult if you don't have evidence of a regular source of income (and savings or any instant access accounts or investments) can be problematic as could be blown .....on a Ferrari or yacht, anything! ) . 

 

If successful you get a renewable residency permit lasting anything from 1 to 5 years at the discretion of the prefecture for the Department. You must then be in France for at least 6 months each year and make tax declarations there. The bonus is that if you do all this your year 6 application is for Permanent Residency status for life, you get a 10 year valid residency card and no need for financial evidence...ever again. With that comes the right to be continuously absent from France for up to 2 years, in some cases more,  and renewal of the card at the end of 10 years requires only proof of continuing residence, you haven't been away for more than 5 consecutive years and a new mugshot.

 

Brits already living as residents in France under the EU freedom of movement right may get some exemptions. But not yet announced.

 

The system and requirements I describe are as presently existing and strictly,  although not enforced at all by the French after 2004 prior to brexit, have always applied even to EU citizens.  For them application for formal residency status was voluntary and actively discouraged.

 

Fortunately I applied voluntarily for a permanent residency card in 2018. I had to go through a considerable documentary paper trail for the 5 preceding years to get it. A simpler procedure is promised now.

 

[Kalasin Jo]

I should have included that my UK state pension gets paid directly in to my French bank account and the only evidence that I get that is an annual letter from the UK state pension authority....which is sitting in my French home.

 

Also regarding the French residency requirements. Without a residency card from 1 January 2021 Brits like all non EU nationals whether visa exempt or not ( in fact even EU citizens who are not French)  are only allowed to spend 90 in 180 days in France and the entire Schengen zone. Many Brits have second homes there, spend many months at a time in them and until now have been untroubled by this, as was I! But I saw this coming.

 

I did not see Covid and worldwide border closures coming, and even back in early March confess I was not concerned and so I am now in this position here. But for that I would have gone to Savanakhet again and my wife and I would have left for France in May, her on her 90 day Schengen visa, expiring end July.