Documentation For Verification Of Income

[dave111223]

Does anyone know what you need to bring to the US embassy in order to get a verification of monthly income certificate?

[mouse]

I think it was $35 and yourself and a willingness to swear that the provided statement is true and correct to your knowledge under the penalty of perjury

Edited April 19, 2007 by mouse

[jcgodber]

Thats the deal

The most important thing is to go stand in line #13 and pays your money ($35.00)

I have NEVER had to swear on oath that my claim of income was what true!

[lopburi3]

Next time you sign that official document in the presence of the Consular Officer ask them exactly what you are doing. You most surly are claiming everything on the document is true.

[PeaceBlondie]

Under Title 1 of the United States Code (perhaps Section 1), nobody ever needs to swear an oath. You do, almost always, sign federal documents underneath a jurat, placing yourself under the threat of perjury.

Edited/Corrected: Here's my copy, and it begins, "This is to affirm that ...PeaceBlondie.......affirms that ....he also affirms that....

It ends with the Consular Officer stating that the same was sworn to before him, and I assure you it's against my religion to swear oaths, especially to governments. Maybe he asked me, "Do you swear?" and I replied, "I affirm."

Anyway, you don't need to bring documentary evidence of what you affirm or certify or declare on that form down at the embassy.

[dave111223]

Thanks for the answers, very helpful.

[JimGant]

Is this a 'fill in the blanks' form provided by the Consulate? And do you actually state a monthly income figure? (equal to or greater than 65k baht, obviously)

[lopburi3]

Yes you fill in the blanks and yes you fill in your income in USD. There is no requirement for it to be any set amount as retirement extension of stay can include bank deposit money. At Immigration you present this letter and if asked the supporting documents to prove it.

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, it is a fill in the blank form. The blanks you fill in by hand include full name, date and place of birth, passport number, where issued, date of issue and expiry. Address, then "He/She also affirms that he/she receives an amount of US$ ______every month from the United States Govt. and/or other sources.....

[JimGant]

Thanks. I wonder how many folks are now having to show a bank account to compensate for a dollar income that has sunk below 65,000 baht/month? (And does Immigration use the "offshore" or "onshore" exchange rate?)

[backflip]

"I wonder how many folks are now having to show a bank account to compensate for a dollar income that has sunk below 65,000 baht/month?"

At least one. When my bank account balance fell below 800K THB, I got a compensating income statement from the US embassy. I went to Immigration with my latest US income tax return - to prove that I had additional resources - and they didn't bother to look at it.

Immigration used the prevailing on-shore rate.

[wpcoe]

Here's a link to a scan of the form that I used last September: US Embassy income letter

No documentation was required, just the payment of a B1200 notary fee.

[Krub]

Here's a link to a scan of the form that I used last September: US Embassy income letter

No documentation was required, just the payment of a B1200 notary fee.

Cheaper than the UK which asked 1.900 baht last October

The UK also asks to see evidence of the income

[ProThaiExpat]

Your will note that the declaration speaks only of income. For those who were asking about the form of the income, this is your answer. Not difficult to set up an income stream of your own choosing to avoid the 800K requirement

While I feel comfortable that I have easy documentation of my income source, i wonder if anyone has reported being asked, either at the Embassy, Consulate or Immigration for supporting documentation.

[lopburi3]

Sunbelt has reported supporting documentation being requested by Bangkok immigration for some.

[PeaceBlondie]

I can't recall if Immigration requested proof of it (either in Hua Hin or Chiang Mai), but I simply presented my monthly bank statements showing regular deposits of my pension funds into my American account. Surely by now, most of the long-term immigration police who review retirement documents know full well (without even reading ThaiVisa) that the statements to our embassy (at least the USA embassy) are self-serving.

[JimGant]

I've seen on this forum that, even with sufficient monthly income (i.e., 65k baht/mo), Immigration likes to see a bankbook with evidence of a balance. I believe in CM they'd like to see around 200k, according to one report.

Question: Does this resonate with anyone lately in CM? And, if so, do they also want to see a letter from the bank validating the bankbook amount?

Thanks.

[ProThaiExpat]

JimGant: My most recent experience with this was in January 2007 when I went through the entry as tourist, change status to non-O and then long stay extension based on combination of Consulate declaration and savings account due to being abroad when my last extension expired.

I had well under 200K when I presented my book, since my income stream is very close to the 65K required. No problem.

I personally believe that they like to see you drawing money down from your savings account to demonstrate your living on savings rather than other income sources.

I would add that the supervising officer who signed me off as the last step in Chiang Mai, checked the intake immigration persons calculations of my income stream in baht, since my Consulate letter was in dollars. At that time, the exchange rate was 35.9 but he used 35 to due the calculations for qualifying income stream. Prophetic perhaps or making sure I qualified at a rate that was well within normal fluctuations at the time.

[JimGant]

Thanks, PTE. Did they need a certification letter from the bank?

[LPCustom69]

Next time you sign that official document in the presence of the Consular Officer ask them exactly what you are doing. You most surly are claiming everything on the document is true.

Just out of curiosity, IF someone lied about their income, then they know that they are committing fraud/perjury against the US government ( by swearing to false information), and fraud against the thai government (by using said document for visa etc). Then what are the penalties when they are caught? I would expect them to be quite severe, ie jail time and/or deportation with a blacklist. I haven't heard of anyone being caught, but feel that the punishment should fit the crime. Any recent busts due to this? I think that eventually they will require massive documentation.

[ProThaiExpat]

Thanks, PTE. Did they need a certification letter from the bank?

JJimGant: Yes, I had the standard letter from SCB. On that note, I was amazed at how poorly drawn the bank confirmation letter was, a form on their computer, presumably used throughout their system. It was non-nonsensical last year, I suggested changes, the changes aren't much better.

Frankly, I think Immigration, as bureaucrats just want to see a document with the figures on it, whether from the bank or the Consulate, and do to poor English ability or not caring, pay no attention to the words on the letter as we do.

As to fraud at the Consulate, I think it is perilous to lie about the level of your income stream as making a false declaration to the U.S. Federal Government, I believe has penalties in the area of 10K USD and 10 years imprisonment.

Having said that, the language of the declaration is sufficiently broad that any monthly income stream in the correct amount qualifies you for the "pension" exemption in my view. And after all, Immigration is only trying to make sure you have sufficient monthly income to live comfortably in Thailand and add to their economy without taking anything back, so why should it be limited to just established pensions as we understand the term.

It is only good for one year anyway.

My posts on this subject, perhaps, are more of a result of my surprise at how loose this qualification is at the present when compared to the rigidity of the 800Baht requirement route.

[richard10365]

Under Title 1 of the United States Code (perhaps Section 1), nobody ever needs to swear an oath......

PB, there is always some kind of gratification when swearing at the USA.

[PeaceBlondie]

To richard: prepositions, my dear student: you can swear at the USA, or you can swear to it.

To JimGant: my income stream is well above the minimum limit, and I had 64K in the bank when I presented my papers. This was in October 2006, for my first annual renewal. He asked me to get the bank statement for that, even though I thought it was unneeded.

[richard10365]

To richard: prepositions, my dear student: you can swear at the USA, or you can swear to it.

To JimGant: my income stream is well above the minimum limit, and I had 64K in the bank when I presented my papers. This was in October 2006, for my first annual renewal. He asked me to get the bank statement for that, even though I thought it was unneeded.

Thank you teeeaaachheeerrrr. (said in the voices of 50 pratom 4 students)

[hgma]

Just for the unoffical record.

After having your income certification...make sure you do not hand over the original, just show it to verify on the spot that the copy you made is "treu"

You see I have been told by immigration NongKhai that my income statement made up in december 2006 could be used for 4 years on a roll.

Mind you when i presented him the cpoy and showed my original....he refused to accept it stating it was to old....but when i replied that HE was the one, that not more than a month earlier when i came in to my yearly check upfront bussines downthere He was the one who told me it could be used.....after my "not backing off mode" was clearly accepted...he started to call(somebody??) then came up with the story......ok! keep it safe...four years???? No NO not me...next time....i get myself a new one....every year ...no hussle no bussle.

hgma

Sunbelt has reported supporting documentation being requested by Bangkok immigration for some.

[AJARNJACK]

My experience at the US Embassy was pleasant enough chatting with the other folks waiting for their numbers to be called, but dealing with the female behind the glass was another story.

I had flown up from Trang just to get the income document to file with Thai Immigration for a visa based on having a Thai spouse. After filling out the form and paying the fee my number was finally called and I went to the window to pick up the notorized document. I have come to the embassy before for a document verifying my living in Thailand for a Thai driver's license a few years before, so I knew the procedure concerning what they ask you before they notorized the document: "Is the information you've entered on this form true? Do you know what this form is used for?" This time I replied "Yes. I'm using this form to show income as support for a Thai spouse." The female (not lady) government employee replied loudly through her microphone that I could not use it for that! It was to be used for the purpose of applying for a Thai visa. I don't like getting yelled at by anyone, much less a pathetic "public parasite" and I was a nano-second from lecturing her on how to deal politely with the public, when I considered the problems she may cause me if I did so. So as nice as I could I explained that she was right and I stated my need incorrectly and that I did indeed need it for a Thai visa application. Knowing she had the 'upper hand', she persisted and wanted to know if I was going to use the document that day. I wasn't about to explain that I'd traveled a long way from Bangkok just to get that form for my visa application in another month, so I said no, feeling it was outside her 'need to know' basis. You can well imagine what I wanted to say to her. She then shouted "When?" I controlled my anger and answerd her and she notorized the document and slipped it through the window. When I turned to leave I could see the expressions of shock on the other people's faces that were waiting to deal with her after me.

I expect problems like that when dealing with government employees in Third World countries, but I sure don't appreciate that kind of customer relations when dealing with my own embassy! I must admit, that is the first time I've been treated so rudely at that embassy and most likely that employee had some personal problems and she was venting her anger at mankind in general. I'm a retired Federal Employee myself and had almost forgotten how nasty you can be treated even in a U.S. Post Office!

[bloody tiger]

Here's a link to a scan of the form that I used last September: US Embassy income letter

No documentation was required, just the payment of a B1200 notary fee.

Cheaper than the UK which asked 1.900 baht last October

The UK also asks to see evidence of the income

and i thought the aussie embassy was a rip off @ 570 Baht.......

[Neddy]

I assume that the verification of income that is the topic of this post has to do exclusively with obtaining a Thai visa.

Would the same process apply when submitting to the U.S. Embassy an affadavit of support in order to obtain an immigrant visa for ones wife/fiance?

[Storekeeper]

I got my Commanding Officer to certify my gross retirement income before I retired from the Navy last month on official letterhead stationary ... that should be good enough for the US Embassy to certify my pension meets the minimum required amount ... shouldn't it ?

[thaihome]

....I expect problems like that when dealing with government employees in Third World countries, but I sure don't appreciate that kind of customer relations when dealing with my own embassy! I must admit, that is the first time I've been treated so rudely at that embassy and most likely that employee had some personal problems and she was venting her anger at mankind in general. I'm a retired Federal Employee myself and had almost forgotten how nasty you can be treated even in a U.S. Post Office!

That would probably be Fai*h. She and I had a similar exchange on the notarization of a simple US Post Office mail forwarding form. She does indeed seem to have a bit of a chip on the shoulder.

Actually, I put it down to that after being away from the US and living in Asia for so long, I have come to take for granted the basic respect that young Asian people give to their elders and have forgotten how disrespectfully young(er) people in the US react when given minor powers (or are required to actually do some work for which they are getting paid)

TH