Germany's coronavirus reproduction rate jumps, indicating rising contagion

[Krataiboy]

14 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Your question is focused on the UK which is not related to the German topic;

 

1. You are complaining that patients "desperate for treatment for other serious conditions died in their homes under lockdown".

 

Do you have any verified data to support this allegation?  No one was denied urgent care and some emergency procedures did continue at designated facilities. However, you seem oblivious to the  fact that there is a SOP when a hospital is faced with the presence of a highly infectious contagion and when there is a  catastrophe. Non urgent care is to be minimized and personnel is to be  directed to the support of the  designated catastrophe.  Put Covid19 aside and consider the response when there is a c. difficile outbreak: All non urgent  invasive procedures are suspended, and wards are either emptied or subject to the  cold/hot designation. The Covid19 response was no different.

 

Are you aware that there is an ongoing shortage of medications and PPE? How exactly do you propose that non essential procedures be undertaken when there is not enough medication to support urgent care patients?  The amount of PPE consumed for the care of urgent care patients has meant that other activities cannot be undertaken. In plain language, if there is no protective equipment and inadequate sterilization capability, it is impossible to carry on as usual.

 

2. The lack of PPE is an underlying limiting factor and there is no way that any one country could have stockpiled enough for this catastrophe. Hospitals went through in a month what they have used in a year.  The PPE is needed because this is a highly infectious  disease. Are you aware that a reported 200+ healthcare personnel have died due to COVID19 infections? It is immoral to  demand that health care workers undertake their work without adequate PPE. It is wrong to put patients at risk when the  healthcare workers cannot  treat them safely. patients stayed away from  the urgent care facilities because they had legitimate concerns in respect to infection.

 

3. You complain about the initial excess capacity. That capacity would have been required  had the social distancing efforts failed. This is now being demonstrated in the USA where hospitals no longer have capacity. Arizona is at the start of a surge and its ICU beds are at close to 80% capacity. 73% of its hospital beds are occupied; with 14% of all regular beds occupied by Covid19 patients. When the rural/urban characteristics are taken into account, the  principal city hospital ICUs are in excess of 100% capacity

 

When a hospital  accepts an infectious disease case, it must create buffer space to prevent an outbreak in the facility. This buffer space takes away beds from other patients.

In effect, the Covid19 patients are starting to crash hospital systems in the USA, particularly in urban areas. 

 

You are  criticizing the UK because it was able to avoid what we are now seeing in some US states. In effect, you are angry at the success of the Covid19 response.

 

Some success story.

 

Thousands of elderly care homes residents needlessly sacrificed. . . a belated lockdown that trashed civil rights. . . a deliberately-contrived fear-mongering campaign which made sick folk too scared to leave home to seek help. . . endless muddle over masks and self-distancing measures. . . a wrecked economy. . . a massive black hole of debt. . . violent mass protests on our city streets. . .

 

If this is success, what in heaven's name would failure look like?

 

All the issues you have raised here have already been addressed in previous posts by myself and other forum members critical of the UK's pandemic strategy.

 

Carry on nitpicking and flogging your pro-Government dead horse if you like. I'm happy to await the findings of a public inquiry, which MUST be held into this self-inflicted wound to our nation.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Krataiboy

[johnpetersen]

3 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Don't twist my words. I never said anyone was refused admittance to hospital.

 

One day we will learn the full, catastrophic impact of lockdowns on sick people too scared to leave their homes for treatment. Meanwhile. . . and there's plenty more out there if you care to look.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8207783/150-000-Brits-die-coronavirus-pandemic-domestic-violence-suicides.html

 

https://www.rt.com/uk/488829-covid-additional-deaths-mystery/

 

 

First off, the first link is to a prediction and nothing like it has materialized.

As for the second, it says an excess of 6546 died. A good guess is that they died from not getting medical attention for fear of covid. So what you suggest the medical community should have done differently? Over 40,000 actually did die from Covid.

[Krataiboy]

4 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

First off, the first link is to a prediction and nothing like it has materialized.

As for the second, it says an excess of 6546 died. A good guess is that they died from not getting medical attention for fear of covid. So what you suggest the medical community should have done differently? Over 40,000 actually did die from Covid.

You seem confused. First you say predictions of excess deaths from lockdowns didn't materialise. Then you "guess" thousands did.

 

There was not much the medical community could have done about these excess deaths, this as their hands were tied by government policy.

 

Nobody knows how many of those 40,000-plus COVID fatalities were individuals who died of the virus or simply with it. One assumes you know the difference.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Krataiboy

[johnpetersen]

2 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

You seem confused. First you say predictions of excess deaths from lockdowns didn't materialise. Then you "guess" thousands did.

 

There was not much the medical community could have done about this as the lockdown was ordered by government, who bear the responsibility.

 

Nobody knows how many of those 40,000-plus official COVID fatalities died of the virus or simply with it. One assumes you have followed events sufficiently to know the difference.

No, What I said was the first link was to a prediction and nothing like it happened. It was about suicides and such. Did you actually read what you linked to?

What do you mean nobody knows about how many of those 40,000 plus knows? But of course, according to you, there are very smart people who don't think there's such a thing as the HIV virus. Is this factoid of yours their take on it?