Right Of Abode Certificates

[mkmike]

My Thai wife recently renewed her Thai passport and has been badgering me to arrange for her Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode (to the UK) be transferred from her old passport. I checked the Home office website to see what I needed as its 5 years since I did it and found the following - 'From 21 December 2006 you will not qualify for a certificate of entitlement to be placed in your foreign passport or travel document if you already hold either a United Kingdom passport which describes you as a British citizen or as a British subject with right of abode' As my wife has a full British passport this would of course apply to her (and my son who also has both passports). I know many travel to the UK using both passports, Thai out, British to enter and exit UK and Thai to get back in to Thailand. Has anyone experienced any problems doing this with Thai immigration. My wife is paranoid that she may loose her Thai citizenship which is why she has always had a ROA cert in her Thai passport, even when we lived in the UK (we now live in Thailand). Thanks in advance for sharing any experience.

[samran]

I'm not british, but used to live there and have Thai dual/Aust nationality. I still come and go fairly regularly (last year 3 times to the UK alone).

Never had a problem once, flying in or out and doing the passport swaps. The only people who care are the airlines, and that you have permission to enter at your final destination, otherwise they won't issue you with a boarding pass. Showing both passports sorts that.

Rules changed back in 1992 in Thailand, so there is no problem now with having 2 nationalities. My mum once plonked her Australian and Thai PP's in front of the Thai immigration officer when coming back from Australia once not sure which one to use. He took the Thai one and stamped her in indefinetly

The folks at the international airports are well used to this situation, though for other sectors of the thai government, I'd never advertise the fact.

[slimdog]

mkmike

As Samran rightly pointed out, there is no problem with travelling with 2 passports, and presenting these to the airline, although it is wiser to only hand over a single passport to any immigration officer.

Because both my daughters have the Certificate to the Right of Abode stickers in their Thai passports, I was a little concerned about your post, but it seems that it is possible that this only applies to applicants in the U.K. Going to one web site I read the following:

New rules from 21 December 2006.

There are no changes to the list of people who qualify for a certificate of entitlement, but there are changes to how you prove your entitlement.

UK has changed the rules on getting a certificate of entitlement to the right of abode in the UK. There is no change to who qualifies for one of these certificates, but the rules on you prove that you are entitled have changed. For example, the new rules specify the documents you must produce to prove your right of abode. Failure to produce the required documents can lead to your application being refused so it will be very important to make sure that you submit the right documents first time.

A shortage of certificates and what the Home Office is doing about it.

In a letter dated 29 November 2006 the Home Office said that at the moment they are short of certificates. They are going to use the ones they have for people who cannot get any other document showing that they can enter and stay in the UK free from any immigration control.

Therefore, the letter says that if you have made an application for a certificate of entitlement and the Home Office see that you are entitled to a British Passport (which would prove your right of abode just as well as a certificate), they will write and tell you so. In effect, your application for a certificate of entitlement will go to the back of the queue and the Home Office will suggest that you apply for a British passport if you need to travel. The Home Office say that they intend to start processing these applications again in April 2007.

source: http://www.gherson.com/articles/new-inform...abode-in-the-uk

So may not be a problem getting the Certificate transfered if you apply in Bangkok, which will be free of charge except for handling fees

[the scouser]

I've had no practical experience of the new rules, but having a look at the relevant legislation, it does appear that those who otherwise hold a British passport won't qualify for a certificate of entitlement.

From the Immigration (Certificate of Entitlement in the UK) Regulations 2006 section 6:-

6. A certificate of entitlement will only be issued where the appropriate authority is satisfied that the applicant—

( is not a person who holds:

(i) a United Kingdom passport describing him as a British citizen,

Scouse.

[Mahout Angrit]

There is nothing wrong, difficult or illegal to travel in and out of Thailand on a Thai passport and in and out of everywhere else on a UK passport. It's being done daily.

Even if she wanted to travel to UK on her Thai passport she only has to carry both old and new Thai passports together, the passport expires, the right of abode doesn't.

The other thing that may put you off getting the 'right of abode' is the fee has increased from £20 to £135.

[mkmike]

Many thanks for your responses, it looks likely she will use both passports next time we travel outside Thailand. I will call the BE in Bangkok on Monday to see what they have to say as well, but I certainly don't want to pay £135 if thats the only option, that was one of the reasons for leaving rip-off Britain in the first place.....

[vinny]

See also Visa Application Centre's Renewal of Certificate of Entitlement checklists:

6. There is no fee for transferring the Certificate of Entitlement into your new passport, but there will be a service charge.

[vinny]

Unfortunately, however, see also Right of abode:

A certificate of entitlement will cease to be valid once the passport it is attached to expires. We will no longer be transferring a certificate of entitlement from one passport to another. If you wish to have a certificate of entitlement in a new passport, you will need to make a fresh application.

Edited April 22, 2007 by vinny

[Arkady]

The only concern is that this country is very flakey about laws and their interpretation. The Nationality Act is ambiguous about whether dual citizenship is allowed and allows for cancelation of Thai citizenship if some one is known to be using another nationality. The current interpretation is that dual citizenship is tolerated, except for Muslims in the deep South who have dual Malaysian-Thai citizenship. This is tricky because dual citizenship is definitely not allowed in Malaysia but the Malaysians seem reluctant to crack down on the practice. Given that the situation in the South is escalating out of control and the propensity for Thai governments towards knee jerk reactions and sledge hammer to crack a nut solutions (e.g. the FBA amendments), I would not be surprised to read about a re-interpretation or amendment to the Nationality Act to make it clear that dual nationality is not permitted in future. Zimbabwe certainly doesn't allow dual nationality and that seems to the preferred role model these days. If that happens, be prepared to replace Thai passports which show exits to nowhere!

[samran]

The only concern is that this country is very flakey about laws and their interpretation. The Nationality Act is ambiguous about whether dual citizenship is allowed and allows for cancelation of Thai citizenship if some one is known to be using another nationality. The current interpretation is that dual citizenship is tolerated, except for Muslims in the deep South who have dual Malaysian-Thai citizenship. This is tricky because dual citizenship is definitely not allowed in Malaysia but the Malaysians seem reluctant to crack down on the practice. Given that the situation in the South is escalating out of control and the propensity for Thai governments towards knee jerk reactions and sledge hammer to crack a nut solutions (e.g. the FBA amendments), I would not be surprised to read about a re-interpretation or amendment to the Nationality Act to make it clear that dual nationality is not permitted in future. Zimbabwe certainly doesn't allow dual nationality and that seems to the preferred role model these days. If that happens, be prepared to replace Thai passports which show exits to nowhere!

Interpretation of the law aside, the fact of the matter is there are simply too many children of powerful people here in Thailand who have dual nationality. From my view of the world, it is almost impossible that anyone would be willing to do anything to change this. I'd agree with you about the lack of clarity in the law, but the fact of the matter is embassies overseas continue to issue passports to people who are obviously dual nationals, and many emabassies post the same information stating that a Thai wife does not lose her Thai nationality once she naturalises to her husbands nationality, unless she formally renounces it. The law itself gives discretion to the minister of interior, and no others (just like in granting citizenship).

Trend wise, I think recent history shows that many countries are acutually liberalising their approach to dual nationality, Germany being the most notable in the EU, as well as Australia more recently. I'd hesitate to hold up Zimbabwe as an example. Mugabe was targeting a very small group of white farmers, many of them held an EU passport in addition to their Zim ones. Banning dual nationality there,was simply another nail in the coffin of white presense in Zimbabwe.