6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL.

I don't know how many small accommodation places there are in LOS, but several million at least. Several million at 144,000 a month beats 12.5 million by however many 5* there are. Doesn't just beat it, but annihilates it.

Indeed, it takes almost 12,000 small no star hotels to equal the income and salaries provided by just 137 5*, what a waste of real estate.

 

BTW before you go there....the purpose of the hotel is to provide a decent place to stay for tourists, not solely as a means of income for poor Thai people, that's not the objective.

Edited June 30, 20206 yr by Trillian

1 minute ago, Trillian said:

Indeed, it takes almost 12,000 small no star hotels to equal the income and salaries provided by just 137 5*, what a waste of real estate.

No sympathy for the millions that would not have a job then? I'm happy that they have real jobs not in a sweat shop, and that those places you apparently disdain existed so I could enjoy LOS.

 

I've changed the post you quoted.

95% of the tourists are not rich , they have an average income. And most high end tourists will choose another destination,  there is your answer. 

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No sympathy for the millions that would not have a job then? I'm happy that they have real jobs not in a sweat shop, and that those places you apparently disdain existed so I could enjoy LOS.

 

I've changed the post you quoted.

I don't disdain those people at all, this is not a debate about Thailand's social needs, it's about tourism and hotels which unfortunately does come down to economics, in part. Everyone (I think) wants Thailand to improve the quality of almost everything here, proliferating no star hotels probably isn't the best way to do it because there are no competitive standards and very little policing of them. Opening a small hotel for a Thai is on par with motor bike rental shops, massage shops, internet cafe's and coffee shops, everyone seems to be able to open one.

3 minutes ago, balo said:

95% of the tourists are not rich , they have an average income. And most high end tourists will choose another destination,  there is your answer. 

Thanks, why didn't you come along sooner and save us all some time?  ????

21 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

China, Japan, South Korea, India all have their fair share of sex tourists. Last few times I've been to Pattaya (some) bars were full of Chinese. If you go to Insanity or Thermae in Bangkok almost every guy is Asian. There may be less westerners, but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of thirsty Asian guys to replace them.

It's a question of numbers. Many bar stool sitters in Pattaya are farangs, and few Asian.

As for Bkk, I went to NASA and full of young Thais spending megabucks on booze, but there are not many in nightclubs compared to all the customers in gogos and sex related establishments.

2 minutes ago, Trillian said:

I don't disdain those people at all, this is not a debate about Thailand's social needs, it's about tourism and hotels which unfortunately does come down to economics, in part. Everyone (I think) wants Thailand to improve the quality of almost everything here, proliferating no star hotels probably isn't the best way to do it because there are no competitive standards and very little policing of them. Opening a small hotel for a Thai is on par with motor bike rental shops, massage shops, internet cafe's and coffee shops, everyone seems to be able to open one.

Of course it's about Thailand's social needs. They don't open tourist places out of the goodness of their hearts- they do so to make money. Without thousands of low end places employing millions of Thais there would be massive social unrest. Thailand needs more low end places to cater to the biggest demographic of visitors. Thailand just isn't going to be a high end destination and probably has as many 5* as it needs.

IMO they have been deluded to even imagine LOS could be a high end destination, for all the reasons that many of us on here know about. They need to concentrate on making it more attractive for responsible low end tourists ( not the thugs and yahoos ), but that sector has been disregarded for decades as they took it for granted. Since Vietnam and other SEA countries made things easier they have been losing ( probably ) many millions of potential tourists.

11 minutes ago, Trillian said:

Everyone (I think) wants Thailand to improve the quality of almost everything here, proliferating no star hotels probably isn't the best way to do it because there are no competitive standards and very little policing of them.

The answer isn't restricting no star hotels then, is it? The answer is obviously to introduce standards and enforce them.

Doesn't matter how many expensive hotels are built as there just isn't the demand from rich people to fill them. They end up taking the horde just to make money, as in the places near Chiang Mai night market. If I were a rich person I wouldn't stay anywhere full of the horde.

On 6/28/2020 at 3:34 AM, Brunolem said:

There is a number of beach hotels/resorts that charge 20,000 + baht per night...and obviously cater to high end tourists.

 

But I think that a large number of their customers are wealthy Thais, and not foreign billionaires...

I was thinking about that ... we used to dine at the Centara Grand Mirage Beach Resort (Wong Amat), which rented for hundreds of dollars USD per night at one time.  We noticed two types of customers:  Wealthy Russian; and wedding parties from wherever.  It seemed to us that they kept the hotel relatively full.
 

Pattaya-Jomptien-WongAmat are not designed for wealthy tourists IMO, especially older wealthy tourists.  Splurge tourism, yes.  But I think pursuing the wealthy travelers is a pipe dream.

 

I also wonder about the amount of money REALLY put into the economy from the different types of travelers.  Payments to bar girls don't ever seem to be part of the "estimated daily spend" that TAT uses to sail its idea of higher class of tourism.

????

If Thailand is rife with the Virus it won't so appealling. 

 

 

34 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Of course it's about Thailand's social needs. They don't open tourist places out of the goodness of their hearts- they do so to make money. Without thousands of low end places employing millions of Thais there would be massive social unrest. Thailand needs more low end places to cater to the biggest demographic of visitors. Thailand just isn't going to be a high end destination and probably has as many 5* as it needs.

IMO they have been deluded to even imagine LOS could be a high end destination, for all the reasons that many of us on here know about. They need to concentrate on making it more attractive for responsible low end tourists ( not the thugs and yahoos ), but that sector has been disregarded for decades as they took it for granted. Since Vietnam and other SEA countries made things easier they have been losing ( probably ) many millions of potential tourists.

Let us not forget where we started here, I believe that 5* hotels serve a purpose and that they should be sued to attract wealthy visitors, you believe that no star hotels should proliferate.

 

Personally, in the same way that Thailand is trying to stop relying on lots of low spending mass tourists, they ought to also get rid of the very lowest tier of sleeperies also, raise the standards, get rid of the places that don't provide a good tourist experience. They tried to do that recently by enforcing the licensing and zoning laws, clearly that's a solid objective. Fact is the hotel market is over populated, it's saturated so nobody can reach acceptable occupancy levels, a cull is in order. It wasn't the 5* hotels that sprung up over night was it, it was the small mom and pop places where everyone thinks they can be a hotelier. They need to develop percentages for each category, how many 5*, how many guest houses etc etc and control what is now an uncontrolled market. And if you think that the low end hotel market is a social tool for providing income to poor and impoverished Thai's there will never be a sustainable tourist business in Thailand, the industry can't work that way except perhaps in a heavily socialist or communist country.

 

10 minutes ago, Trillian said:

they ought to also get rid of the very lowest tier of sleeperies also, raise the standards, get rid of the places that don't provide a good tourist experience.

The lowest tier serves the Thai market, they still have a few customers.

What percentage of Thai service staff work in the top hotels, 2%?

What will you do with the 95% of hotels that you put out of business?

What about the Chinese, the Thai government loves Chinese tourists, and 99% of them are low-end.

 

What you suggest will result in mass unemployment and derelict buildings.

Assuming tourism is ever allowed in the world again.

 

Edited July 1, 20206 yr by BritManToo

36 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The lowest tier serves the Thai market, they still have a few customers.

What percentage of Thai service staff work in the top hotels, 2%?

What will you do with the 95% of hotels that you put out of business?

What about the Chinese, the Thai government loves Chinese tourists, and 99% of them are low-end.

 

What you suggest will result in mass unemployment and derelict buildings.

Assuming tourism is ever allowed in the world again.

 

Nobody suggested closing down 95% of the hotels, where did you dream that one up from?

 

This is about raising the standards both in terms of revenue and customer service/experience, getting rid of the bottom 15% would be helpful in that respect and I think that's what they tried to do in Chiang Mai last year or the year before as I remember. Hotels and guest houses are supposed to have licenses and to confirm they adhere to standards, clearly there's a whole bunch that don't and many of them need to go.

On June 28, 2020 at 10:24 PM, newnative said:

     Perhaps one day you'll visit and see for yourself.  I think you'll find that the beaches are nice and being kept clean--especially the newly-widened Pattaya Beach.  I think you'll find that there are, indeed, some nice family-oriented parts of Pattaya, such as Jomtien, Wongamat, and Cosy, where a family certainly can have a nice holiday by the sea with plenty to do away from the adult entertainment areas. 

     As far as crime goes, I find Pattaya very safe, as I do other parts of Thailand. The rare shooting does garner publicity but I feel far safer in Pattaya than I would in most places in the US, where I am from.  The other weekend there were 100 shootings in Chicago. 100!  In just one weekend.  Glad I don't live there.  Check us out sometime.  

Yes, jomtien, naklua etc, but pattaya central does not attract a decent family oriented crowd. Who wants to bring their family to this environment, hooker capital of the world? Rift raft, lowlifes? Never seen a decent family having dinner in LK metro, walking thru the hookers on beach road , maybe once, but never to return. Phuket, Samuel, hau hin, yes, pattaya? I don't know where u come from, but certainly not the families I know. The new beach is quite nice I will admit, thumbs up to that. Too bad the water is putrid. Too be quite honest, I have never, EVER seen a decent wealthy western family walking down beach road. 

31 minutes ago, Ron jeremy said:

Too be quite honest, I have never, EVER seen a decent wealthy western family walking down beach road. 

Now people can see how decent and wealthy people are just by looking, when did that happen!

 

I was looking for a famous picture of Jimmy Page walking down Beach Road but couldn't find it, Jimmy's got a few hundred million:

 

 

http://www.pattayamail.co.th/895/features.shtml

47 minutes ago, Ron jeremy said:

Yes, jomtien, naklua etc, but pattaya central does not attract a decent family oriented crowd. Who wants to bring their family to this environment, hooker capital of the world? Rift raft, lowlifes? Never seen a decent family having dinner in LK metro, walking thru the hookers on beach road , maybe once, but never to return. Phuket, Samuel, hau hin, yes, pattaya? I don't know where u come from, but certainly not the families I know. The new beach is quite nice I will admit, thumbs up to that. Too bad the water is putrid. Too be quite honest, I have never, EVER seen a decent wealthy western family walking down beach road. 

    Your post reminds me of another post I got telling me that there are other places families can go on holiday that have nicer beaches than Pattaya.  I responded with the post below, which I will repost.  I will say that the northern part of Pattaya Beach has gotten much nicer in the past few years with the new Amari addition, the new Mytt Hotel with a large rooftop ballroom, Terminal 21, the new Ozo Hotel, and the new large Beach Quarters restaurant.  A number of the older establishments have done remodeling and that is still going on.  Pattaya does have an adult entertainment side but families can have a nice holiday away from those areas.  My other post on this topic:

 

      Well, Pattaya Beach is looking pretty darn good right now--pity you can't see it in person and judge for yourself.  Hope you saw the gorgeous photos of it on another post awhile back.  But, I think you are missing the point a bit.  It's not just about the beach for lots of families going on holiday.   For many years when I lived in the US my extended family spent a week every summer having a big family holiday reunion.  

       We always selected a resort town with a beach.  BUT, it also had to have nearby golfing for those who liked to golf.  It needed a wide variety of restaurants because we liked to go out to dinner a lot--who wants to cook when you are on holiday?  It needed a good selection of places to rent for the week with nice pools--because we spent lots of time just hanging out at the pool catching up.  It needed attractions and amusements to entertain us.  It needed places we could take day trips to.  And, some wanted good shopping, as well.  

     If you look at Pattaya, it's got all that. Lots of places to stay on or near the beaches with pools.  Lots of golfing nearby including a beautiful new course near Silver Lake.  Lots of restaurants with all varieties of food and some right on the beach.  Day trips to the islands.  Attractions and amusements like the Aquarium, 3 water parks, the Kaan show, go carts, Nong Nooch Gardens and the shows there, Floating Market, Dolphinarium, Teddy Bear Museum, and others.  Lots of shopping at Central Festival, Terminal 21, night markets, etc.  

1 hour ago, Ron jeremy said:

Yes, jomtien, naklua etc, but pattaya central does not attract a decent family oriented crowd. Who wants to bring their family to this environment, hooker capital of the world? Rift raft, lowlifes? Never seen a decent family having dinner in LK metro, walking thru the hookers on beach road , maybe once, but never to return. Phuket, Samuel, hau hin, yes, pattaya? I don't know where u come from, but certainly not the families I know. The new beach is quite nice I will admit, thumbs up to that. Too bad the water is putrid. Too be quite honest, I have never, EVER seen a decent wealthy western family walking down beach road. 

The Truth Hurts.

On 6/30/2020 at 12:09 AM, belfast3 said:

Now is definitely not the time to be choosy over which class of tourists can visit.

 

Also, high end tourists will stay at big chain hotels owned by foreign companies and do little for the local economy. 

   Hmm.  One of those deep, deep mysteries why countries, states, and even cities vigorously pursue foreign investment since, according to you, businesses owned by foreign companies, including hotels, 'do little for the local economy'. 

On 6/30/2020 at 7:35 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

If we all cared about each other the world would be a wonderful place. The attitude that workers are nothing to do with "us" is, IMO, why western factory owners exported all their jobs to China so they could exploit the workers and make even more millions.

The exploitation of the workers is part of the reason I prefer to stay in cheap places where more of my money goes to the staff than in an expensive place where a corporation gets most of my money.

   Your last sentence is a bit confused.  Whether you stay at a high end hotel or a budget hotel, the staff will likely get the same amount of your money.  If you spend 10,000 baht on a room, the maid will earn a salary of maybe 500 baht a day to clean it.  If you spend 1000 baht on a room, the maid will also get maybe 500 baht a day to clean it.  Same same.  In either case, the hotel owner is getting most of your money--but the hotel workers are benefiting as well by having jobs.  

14 minutes ago, newnative said:

   Your last sentence is a bit confused.  Whether you stay at a high end hotel or a budget hotel, the staff will likely get the same amount of your money.  If you spend 10,000 baht on a room, the maid will earn a salary of maybe 500 baht a day to clean it.  If you spend 1000 baht on a room, the maid will also get maybe 500 baht a day to clean it.  Same same.  In either case, the hotel owner is getting most of your money--but the hotel workers are benefiting as well by having jobs.  

Not so. A 500 baht a day maid in a 5* would also receive a share of the Service Charge which can easily triple her salary, not so in a small hotel.

On 6/30/2020 at 8:16 AM, Peterw42 said:

Interesting question, I think the reality is far lower than the perception/belief.

It depends who you ask, go to soi sexpat and ask the guys on the barstools, they will tell you that they alone are propping up the Thai economy.

Personally, I think its way smaller than people think. 

Totally agree.  It's, of course, a significant percentage, but dropping, in places like Pattaya but as a percentage of Thailand's total tourism I would say rather low and certainly not the largest percentage, as some wistfully maintain. 

You did not put in the 5th button.

 

5. It doesn’t matter as TAT will tell us year on year that rich tourists numbers have increased and so has their spending.

On 6/29/2020 at 2:24 PM, Trujillo said:

I never understood people staying in a place that cost 5,000 baht when two resorts down you got virtually the same thing for 1/5th the price. 

People who pay 5000 baht not only want nice and beautiful things which cheaper resorts provide as well.

They want to be among other people who can afford to pay 5000 baht.

May be start with a specific small wealthy group first, to get an inside look.

 

Like Nigerian Bankers.

The spending of the rich will never be more than the spending of the masses. 

This nonsense is just a wet dream of the elite who look down their noses at the rest of us.