Maybe = บางที

[grtaylor]

Two situations where a thai person has used the English word "maybe":

1 A nurse at Bumrungrad said, "Maybe you need to have X-ray before you have operation". There was no maybe about this - it was a listed requirement!

2 Some years ago, when trying to borrow some equipment from an "official" Thai organisation, the person who was organising it said "Maybe you need to write a letter". My answer was, and continued to be, "well let me know if I have to". We never got permission to borrow the equipment, and I think its because I didn't write the letter.

Given that people speaking a foreign language often make mistakes because a dictionary doesn't convey the nuance of language, I wondered whether "บางที" in Thai actually has a different meaning to "maybe" in English? Or, was it just an attempt to sound more polite?

Cheers,

G

Edited April 20, 2007 by grtaylor

[CSS]

Two situations where a thai person has used the English word "maybe":

1 A nurse at Bumrungrad said, "Maybe you need to have X-ray before you have operation". There was no maybe about this - it was a listed requirement!

2 Some years ago, when trying to borrow some equipment from an "official" Thai organisation, the person who was organising it said "Maybe you need to write a letter". My answer was, and continued to be, "well let me know if I have to". We never got permission to borrow the equipment, and I think its because I didn't write the letter.

Given that people speaking a foreign language often make mistakes because a dictionary doesn't convey the nuance of language, I wondered whether "บางที" in Thai actually has a different meaning to "maybe" in English? Or, was it just an attempt to sound more polite?

Cheers,

G

My impression is that the maybe was added per your last thought, simply to make it sound more polite. I do completely agree that "people speaking a foreign language often make mistakes because a dictionary doesn't convey the nuance of language" but I don't think that that is the case here regardless of whether they are translating บางที or อาจจะ as maybe. However, อาจจะ would lend itself to your situations mentioned above better than บางที would.

[mangkorn]

My impression is that the maybe was added per your last thought, simply to make it sound more polite. I do completely agree that "people speaking a foreign language often make mistakes because a dictionary doesn't convey the nuance of language" but I don't think that that is the case here regardless of whether they are translating บางที or อาจจะ as maybe. However, อาจจะ would lend itself to your situations mentioned above better than บางที would.

I've always wondered about the expression บางที - I understand it as "some times" and have never understood whence the "maybe" meaning comes. Anyone help me there?

[Khonwan]

... I understand it as "some times" and have never understood whence the "maybe" meaning comes. Anyone help me there?

Glad I'm not the only person who understood it to mean "some times". My own Thai is only barely adequate however.

[CSS]

My impression is that the maybe was added per your last thought, simply to make it sound more polite. I do completely agree that "people speaking a foreign language often make mistakes because a dictionary doesn't convey the nuance of language" but I don't think that that is the case here regardless of whether they are translating บางที or อาจจะ as maybe. However, อาจจะ would lend itself to your situations mentioned above better than บางที would.

I've always wondered about the expression บางที - I understand it as "some times" and have never understood whence the "maybe" meaning comes. Anyone help me there?

It definitely feels like it lends itself to be translated as "some times" more than "maybe." Though, I think it is used in many situations in which an English speaker would use "maybe." For example, I was watching the movie "Whale Rider" the other day in English with Thai subtitles. I like practicing Thai through reading subtitles. There is a line where the main character says "Maybe we should think about...(you coming to live with me.)" and they translated it as บางทีมันก็น่าคิด... I guess you could still think of บางที as some times, but in the sense of a future subjunctive instead of an actual past. However, he is intending a specific occasion but just using maybe to show his uncertainty. Of course subtitle translations are infamously bad for accuracy. I'll post again if I run across another example here in the next couple days.

[meadish_sweetball]

It's a case of literal meaning: baang = "some", thii = "time" - as opposed to looking at how it is used.

When you look at actual usage, "maybe" often makes more sense.

[aanon]

It's a case of literal meaning: baang = "some", thii = "time" - as opposed to looking at how it is used.

When you look at actual usage, "maybe" often makes more sense.

hi there,

just for clarity i think it's worth pointing out ที means 'time' in the sense of an instance - ie. one time, two times.

also, on บางที and อาจจะ, although they can both mean maybe they are not interchangeable. like English 'perhaps' and 'might' they are used in different places in a sentence.

บางที คุณจะต้องเขียนจดหมาย

perhaps you'll need to write a letter

คุณอาจจะต้องเขียนจดหมาย

you might need to write a letter

i agree that the cases the OP mentioned were about politeness. using บางที allowed the speaker to avoid sounding like they were giving you a direct order.

all the best.

[swanks]

In my experience English speaking Thais often use "maybe" to change a command into a suggestion even though it's not one .

"You should go that way "! sounds like an order to a social inferior . "maybe you should try to go that way "? is much more polite.

[wasabi]

บางที and อาจจะ seem to have the same meaning, only need to be placed in different parts of the sentence, how about คงจะ?

Edited April 22, 2007 by wasabi

[aanon]

บางที and อาจจะ seem to have the same meaning, only need to be placed in different parts of the sentence, how about คงจะ?

บางที and อาจจะ signal that something is possible (like "maybe"), คงจะ has a higher degree of probability (like "probably"). it's used in the same place in the sentence as อาจจะ.

eg.

เธอคงจะชอบ

you'll probably like it (or i think you'll like it)

เราคงจะไม่กลับอยู่ไปที่นั่นอีก

i probably won't go to live there again (or i don't think i'll go to live there again)

all the best.

ps. don't forget that บางที can also mean "in some instances" or "in some cases" as per its literal meaning

บางที คนป่วยต้องรอเป็นวัน กว่าจะได้พบหมอ

in some cases the sick must wait for days before they are able to see a doctor

Edited April 22, 2007 by aanon

[noungning]

It's a case of literal meaning: baang = "some", thii = "time" - as opposed to looking at how it is used.

When you look at actual usage, "maybe" often makes more sense.

hi there,

just for clarity i think it's worth pointing out ที means 'time' in the sense of an instance - ie. one time, two times.

also, on บางที and อาจจะ, although they can both mean maybe they are not interchangeable. like English 'perhaps' and 'might' they are used in different places in a sentence.

บางที คุณจะต้องเขียนจดหมาย

perhaps you'll need to write a letter

คุณอาจจะต้องเขียนจดหมาย

you might need to write a letter

i agree that the cases the OP mentioned were about politeness. using บางที allowed the speaker to avoid sounding like they were giving you a direct order.

all the best.

great explanation. i think บางที is used more as a suggestion to an action, whether you choose to do it or not is your choice to move forward to the next situation. บางทีคุณอาจจะต้องไปทำการ x-ray ถ้าไม่ทำ เราคงจะทำอะไรไม่ได้ [maybe you might need to go get an x-ray, otherwise, we are unable to do anything.

บางที คนป่วยต้องรอเป็นวัน กว่าจะได้พบหมอ

in some cases the sick must wait for days before they are able to see a doctor

i think "in some cases" is the same as maybe - "maybe the sick must wait for days before they are able to see a doctor"

[aanon]

It's a case of literal meaning: baang = "some", thii = "time" - as opposed to looking at how it is used.

When you look at actual usage, "maybe" often makes more sense.

hi there,

just for clarity i think it's worth pointing out ที means 'time' in the sense of an instance - ie. one time, two times.

also, on บางที and อาจจะ, although they can both mean maybe they are not interchangeable. like English 'perhaps' and 'might' they are used in different places in a sentence.

บางที คุณจะต้องเขียนจดหมาย

perhaps you'll need to write a letter

คุณอาจจะต้องเขียนจดหมาย

you might need to write a letter

i agree that the cases the OP mentioned were about politeness. using บางที allowed the speaker to avoid sounding like they were giving you a direct order.

all the best.

great explanation. i think บางที is used more as a suggestion to an action, whether you choose to do it or not is your choice to move forward to the next situation. บางทีคุณอาจจะต้องไปทำการ x-ray ถ้าไม่ทำ เราคงจะทำอะไรไม่ได้ [maybe you might need to go get an x-ray, otherwise, we are unable to do anything.

บางที คนป่วยต้องรอเป็นวัน กว่าจะได้พบหมอ

in some cases the sick must wait for days before they are able to see a doctor

i think "in some cases" is the same as maybe - "maybe the sick must wait for days before they are able to see a doctor"

hi,

hehe...i was thinking someone would make that point. i can see the reasoning but i don't agree.

if i say that 1) in some cases sick people need to wait for days, it does follow logically that 2) if you are sick you might need to wait for days. i accept that. however the two statements are not the same, just linked by logic.

consider these two sentences:

in some cases sick people need to wait for days, but you won't need to.

you might need to wait for days, but you won't need to.

the second one is nonsense, which shows that 1) and 2) are not the same thing.

but your observation does give a good explanation of how sometimes could come to mean maybe.

all the best.

Edited April 23, 2007 by aanon

[kriswillems]

It's a case of literal meaning: baang = "some", thii = "time" - as opposed to looking at how it is used.

When you look at actual usage, "maybe" often makes more sense.

I always get these 2 words mixed up:

บางครั้ง

And

บางที

If you look in thai2english.com AND thai.sealang.net they both mean "sometimes".

But when I used บางที for "sometimes" people always correct me, telling me บางที means "perhaps (or maybe)" and บางครั้ง means "sometimes".

So, now I am wondering if

ทุกครั้ง

and

ทุกที

also have a slightly different meaning or do they both mean every time?

Or do they mean always?

And if they means always, what the difference with เสมอ?

[aanon]

It's a case of literal meaning: baang = "some", thii = "time" - as opposed to looking at how it is used.

When you look at actual usage, "maybe" often makes more sense.

I always get these 2 words mixed up:

บางครั้ง

And

บางที

If you look in thai2english.com AND thai.sealang.net they both mean "sometimes".

But when I used บางที for "sometimes" people always correct me, telling me บางที means "perhaps (or maybe)" and บางครั้ง means "sometimes".

So, now I am wondering if

ทุกครั้ง

and

ทุกที

also have a slightly different meaning or do they both mean every time?

Or do they mean always?

And if they means always, what the difference with เสมอ?

hi,

there is some overlap, but บางครั้ง is by far the more common for sometimes and บางที is by far the more common for maybe. so, your critics are steering you in the right direction (or at least towards the road more travelled).

ทุกครั้ง means every time and you might see it at the start or the end of a phrase:

ทุกครั้งที่เขาผ่านมาทางนี้....

Every time he passes by this way...

or the end

...เขานึกโกรดตัวเองทุกครั้ง

...he feels angry at himself every time.

ทุกที is more often used to indicate 'more and more*'. here are a couple of example sentences found in the SEAlang thai corpus with my rough translations.

ที่คนเมืองมีอาการมากขึ้นทุกที

...of which city dwellers are showing more and more symptoms OR

...which is becoming more and more prevalent amongst city dwellers

จนกระทั่งใกล้การแข่งขันเข้ามา ทุกที

...so much so that it is more and more like competition

เริ่มจะทวีดีกรีความร้อนแรง ขึ้นทุกที

...has begun to multiply in severity

also it can mean 'every time' at the end of a phrase, with a sense of frustration like 'every bloody time':

เป็นอย่างนี้ทุกที

this happens every bloody time!

all the best.

[noungning]

i see, yes, it's very hard to understand thai word usage. but u are very great at explaining it, kudos

[aanon]

ทุกที is more often used to indicate 'more and more*'. here are a couple of example sentences found in the SEAlang thai corpus with my rough translations.

ที่คนเมืองมีอาการมากขึ้นทุกที

...of which city dwellers are showing more and more symptoms OR

...which is becoming more and more prevalent amongst city dwellers

จนกระทั่งใกล้การแข่งขันเข้ามา ทุกที

...so much so that it is more and more like competition

เริ่มจะทวีดีกรีความร้อนแรง ขึ้นทุกที

...has begun to multiply in severity

having thought about this a little more, i think i should alter my explanation of this 'more and more' usage of ทุกที.

มากขึ้นทุกที does mean 'more and more' BUT

น้อยลงทุกที means 'less and less'

so to be clear i should say that ทุกที means something like 'at every look', 'at every juncture', 'every day' or 'in every instance'. try to imagine you're regularly looking at some situation and, every time you do, you find the same phenomenon of something increasing, lessening, or changing in some other way.

so, for example,

น้อยลงทุกที

becomes 'less at every look' = 'less and less'

จนกระทั่งใกล้การแข่งขันเข้ามา ทุกที

becomes 'so much so that it's getting closer to a competition at every look'

all the best.

ps. noungning, thanks for the kudos!