Here Is Proof The Bangkok Condo Market Is Still Booming

[pkrv]

bingobongo - you clearly have formidable research skills - I wonder if you could help me please?

Some time ago I posted

"Perhaps I could add something? If I were to say name 6 as it is a measure what will happen. Why do I say that? What are the 6 most prestigious condominium projects currently available for sale in Bangkok? OK I should have said Thailand but only have certain local knowledge, for example I did not know about the Infinity"

Abrak took up the challange and replied

Well taking up your challenge - here is a list of some of the high end condo projects in Bangkok that I would GUESS all have plenty of units for sale.

1. Location - central BKK

2. Bt70k-Bt150k

3. Completion 2007-2009

The River - Chaophraya

The Pano - Rama 3

Emporio Place - Suk 24

Hansar Rajadamri - Rajadamri

Watermark - Charoennakorn Rd

The Met - Sathorn Rd

Regent Residences - Sukhumvit

Sukothai Residences - Sathorn

Millenium Residences - Sukhumvit

In the list I got to the Met and I posted links and thoughts - Could you help with the remaining developments? Only the Met hit a definition of high end (from my perspective), though all are grade A.

PS I also added

Just to add to the list of projects already provided I am also aware of these:

The Manhattan, 35 Storey : Chitlom

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=177314

The Park Residence, 35+28 Storey : Chidlom

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=82189

The Athenee Residence , 40 Storey : Wireless Road

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=130008

Central Chidlom British Embassy, 85+46+39 Storey : Chidom

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.p...age=1&pp=20

The Address Chitlom, 24+21 Storey : Chidlom

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=373643

Sansiri Chidlom project

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=438889

If as Palm says "I went to see the tacky-plastic-fantastic The Address yesterday in Phetburi Road, and they only have a few 2 beds remaining, but they were not interested in discounting."

Then that project has yet to get started and has sold out already, can anyone else confirm?

[jumnien]

The wife and I are going up to take a deposit on our Rajadamri, Soi Mahadlek 1 condo that we've sold apparently. We never advertised it and only told the lady at the front desk we were thinking of selling or renting it out. Three potential buyers in a week, all Thai, took the best deal and that's that. I guess it was easier to sell because it is leasehold rather than freehold. I understand the freehold properties in Bangkok are a bit slow moving right now. That said I don't think prices are coming down.

what price did that condo sell for?

4.5M

[london]

Bingobongo,

are you actually familiar (ie: first hand experince in May 2007) in Bangkok property?

It is just that you seem to quote a lot of articles, but no first hand experience....or evidence for your extreme pessimism.

I would, like others I'm sure, appreciate your response to the post by PKRV.

Also, as I invited you on another post: lets leave it for 1 year and IF you are correct and the condominium market collapses, I will be the first to congratulate you on your foresight.

As for me, and may I suggest a few like me, I expect the market to slowly strengthen.........not from a boom situation, but as part of a consolidation phase....typical in a maturing market.

A lot of us are positive about Thailand......and its future!

Edited May 16, 2007 by london

[backflip]

" Only the Met hit a definition of high end (from my perspective)"

What is your definition of "high end"?

[bingobongo]

regardless of my differeing views with folks on this board, i hope everyone and their families are OK with the earthquake, watch out for those aftershocks

backflip, it has nothing to with affordibility, it is just that I have no desire to be separated from my hard money in a casino such as Thailand, additionally, with Thailand building codes being suspect (as evidenced by poor or nonexsitent maintenance), the earthquake will not help any

there are many more viable places that do not have capital controls, juntas, and slowing economy to invest (at all let alone all at once), thailand is a great place, but not right now, your obsession in spite of the reality is almost pathological

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/....earthquake.ap/

Edited May 16, 2007 by bingobongo

[pkrv]

" Only the Met hit a definition of high end (from my perspective)"

What is your definition of "high end"?

Well met backflip - You have asked an almost impossible question. In a sense I have already answered

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=117809

But also my answer too is on this thread

Bangkok does not lack for space, is an aspect????

[bingobongo]

good to see banks wont cave to overzealous developers.......borrowers with good credit appear to be dwindling while supply continues to grow as they continue to dangle that 3 months of zero interest......

CREDIT ANALYSIS

KBank won't relax mortgage conditions

Still wants to expand loan portfolio, despite rejecting more applications

The jump in housing-loan rejections mainly reflects the weakening debt-servicing capability of home-buyers amid the gloomy economic environment, he said.

From 2003-06, demand for credit-card and personal loans soared, and now consumers have less capacity to take on new loans, he said.

Also, outstanding personal loans have hit Bt200 billion, an increase of 21 per cent annually during the last three years.

To promote its home-loan products, KBank is offering zero interest for the first three months for visitors applying at the 16th House and Condominium Show, which runs from today and to next Sunday.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/05/17...ss_30034409.php

Edited May 16, 2007 by bingobongo

[bingobongo]

come on backflip, when you respond, less rhetoric and more facts

and do not get emotional when it comes to money, or you will soon be separated from it

[backflip]

pkry,

I read the thread you suggested, and no where could I find your explanation of "high end". You've alluded to "conservation areas" and "converting old buildings into condos", but that's about it. Perhaps it's "you can't define it, but you know it when you see it" - similar to the US Supreme Court decision involving pornography.

Raimonland has a periodic real estate update and, in its latest issue, lists all of the condo projects (priced greater than THB 2M per unit) from 2003 through 2006. The list includes all of the projects that you mentioned. Since "The Met" is the only one that met your expectations, I wouldn't delve any further.

[backflip]

"come on backflip, when you respond, less rhetoric and more facts and do not get emotional when it comes to money, or you will soon be separated from it"

There's a certian point of commonality with your posts, neither one of us knows what you are talking about.

[rott]

Beardog, thanks for that, you confirm what I had been thinking.

However I don't see much evidence of people cutting prices to offload

properties, neither have I seen anyof these 20% discounts that are

mentioned.

[pkrv]

Hi Backflip, perhaps I should expand on my own 'High End' definition.

I like the Athenee, The Park and The Customs House because they all have their own unique style.

Other important factors are: High ceiling heights, large rooms, no small 'entry level' apartments 30, 40 ,50 sq meter apartments. 70 is probably OK for a 1 bedroom, 100 for a 2 bedroom. Excellent branded fittings (kitchen bathroom etc), and contracts designed for long term stability.

I personally prefer The Park over the Athenee because IMO it is a less dense structure and is just off the main travel arteries, but still only 1 or 2 minutes from the skytrain.

Also I am keen to see the new regulations on green space enforced, but yes you are correct I will know it when I see it (the buildings )

[Old Man River]

I personally prefer The Park over the Athenee because IMO it is a less dense structure and is just off the main travel arteries, but still only 1 or 2 minutes from the skytrain.

While I personally prefer the Athenee because it has better access and egress and is closer to the skytrain, both are wonderful properties with great locations. There is always a demand for these type of properties. The old adage of location, location, location holds true.

[jas007]

This has all been very interesting reading. Some of you guys must be in the real estate business. I'm just a single guy from the USA here on a retirement visa. Like everyone, I have to live somewhere. Rent? Own? The most I could possibly imagine spending on a small (one bedroom?) condo in Bangkok would be 6 million baht, and even that might be a bit much for me, all things considered. That wouldn't be my entire net worth, but it's all I would be comfortable spending in Thailand. If need be, I could walk away from it all and still be OK. In any event, I take it the so-called "high-end" places would be out for that price, unless, of course, there's some sort of crash in the condo market. I'll have to look into the leasehold angle. Maybe that would make it all more affordable. Of course, as a possible buyer, I'd like to see a big crash and lower prices. Who knows what will happen, though.

And to the guy posting about the property purchases in Phuket for 35K baht a sq. meter. That sounds reasonable. I like Phuket, and at that rate I think the value is there.

J

[bingobongo]

so if the market was doing well, why the need for "promotions galore"? and why so much in incentives if the property market is doing so well? ok, give up? the answer is because it is not doing so well............

incentives galore, cars, furniture, air conditioners, oh my! and this will still fail.......

Promotions galore at the House and Condo Show

Property firms are launching special promotions, offering free transfer fees and other incentives worth between Bt200,000 and Bt1.5 million at the 16th House & Condo Show starting today.

They are aiming to recoup lower sales in the first quarter.

The fair is the venue at which property companies expect to revive sales following a sharp first-quarter drop.

Other financial institutions also provide special interest rates for home-buyers, especially a zero interest rate for the first three to six months when signing a contract at the event. (THIS SMELLS LIKE DESPERATION)

Bangkok Commercial Asset Management will provide discounts of between 20 and 30 per cent, a zero transfer fee and special interest rate (3 percentage points below minimum lending rate) for those who buy foreclosed assets selling at below Bt2 million per unit. (THIS SMELLS WORSE, TRYING TO GET FORECLOSURES OFF THE BOOKS)

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/05/17...ss_30034389.php

Edited May 17, 2007 by bingobongo

[Beardog]

Beardog, thanks for that, you confirm what I had been thinking.

However I don't see much evidence of people cutting prices to offload

properties, neither have I seen anyof these 20% discounts that are

mentioned.

You are quite correct! If a thai person owns they will sit on the property till the bank repo's the property instead of selling lower!

Most of the foreigners are not giving much on the way of discounts either I have noticed when I was looking for property. This could change if the climate stays cool in the market.

I guess we will just have to wait & see!

Seems like the best case scenario is to wait it out & see what the market does.

happy hunting!!!

[bingobongo]

well well well, nothing to see here.......move along

you can wait and see all you want as the slow erosion of equity continues and you will be poorer today than you were last year

Property-sector slump blamed on policy uncertainty

The value of the property market slumped by up to 20 per cent or Bt10 billion in the first four months of the year, due to political uncertainty and unclear economic policies under the interim government.

As a result, transactions have dropped by 20 per cent or Bt10 billion," Atip said, adding that last year transactions totalled Bt50 billion in the same period.

Due to sluggish sales, most property developers have revised down their sales targets this year by 10-30 per cent.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/05/18/business/business_30034474.php

Edited May 17, 2007 by bingobongo

[Pilchard]

Some bargains to be had.....could be even cheaper next month.....but that's half the fun is the not knowing

Bangkok post today

PROPERTY / MARKETING & PROMOTION

Bargains offered as companies clear stocks

Developers are trying to clear housing stocks by offering discounts and free furniture at the 16th Home and Condominium Fair at the Queen Sirikit National Convention Center until Sunday. Most of the condominiums on offer have already been launched and are suffering from slow sales.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/18May2007_biz39.php

[palm]

Hi Backflip, perhaps I should expand on my own 'High End' definition.

I like the Athenee, The Park and The Customs House because they all have their own unique style.

Other important factors are: High ceiling heights, large rooms, no small 'entry level' apartments 30, 40 ,50 sq meter apartments. 70 is probably OK for a 1 bedroom, 100 for a 2 bedroom. Excellent branded fittings (kitchen bathroom etc), and contracts designed for long term stability.

I personally prefer The Park over the Athenee because IMO it is a less dense structure and is just off the main travel arteries, but still only 1 or 2 minutes from the skytrain.

Also I am keen to see the new regulations on green space enforced, but yes you are correct I will know it when I see it (the buildings )

The Park looks like it will be a really fabulous property! When will it be ready for moving-in?

[pkrv]

Palm, the latest I have is earlyAugust for The Park penthouses - and late August (maybe early September) for the last units.

[backflip]

"so if the market was doing well, why the need for "promotions galore"? and why so much in incentives if the property market is doing so well? ok, give up? the answer is because it is not doing so well............"

You sly fox, in another forum you mentioned the real reason why you're so pessimistic on the Thai real estate market: your partner is pressuring you to buy a home, and you don't want to. Ha!

[sinam]

Most of the promotions I see out there right now are gimmicks just to get the customer in the front door. Unless they start offering long term fixed interest rates these zero for 3 months and similar short term interest rate relieve promotions won't do anything. Theres not much of any "real incentives" out there at the moment. If you want deals right now your best bet is go to the companies on the fringe who may have cashflow problems but they may also be the companies with not the best reputation for quality construction.

Si Nam

[thaigene2]

"so if the market was doing well, why the need for "promotions galore"? and why so much in incentives if the property market is doing so well? ok, give up? the answer is because it is not doing so well............"

You sly fox, in another forum you mentioned the real reason why you're so pessimistic on the Thai real estate market: your partner is pressuring you to buy a home, and you don't want to. Ha!

Let's flip one back to you back-flipper..

"Your partner is pressureing you to buy a home and you don't want to. Ha!"

So what if he doesn't want to buy a property and his partner is pressuring him to do the opposite? How does that make his remarks here any less relevant...?

"I don't want to buy a home and anyway the market is presently full of bul+sh+t ripoffs anyway" - where's the contradiction?

[bingobongo]

as a reminder:

when supply is greater than demand, prices go down

Some fresh bit of data, regarding real estate.

PROPERTY DEVELOPER

Firm plans customised homes

Attempt to reduce housing stock with made-to-order project

In the first two months of the year, 10,150 residential units were transferred in Bangkok and its suburbs. This was an increase of only 2.2 per cent from 9,926 homes transferred in the first two months of last year. However, in terms of value, the residential units transferred in the first two months were collectively worth only Bt23.34 billion - a fall of 25 per cent from a collective value of Bt31.36 billion in the corresponding period last year.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/05/23...ss_30034925.php

[backflip]

""I don't want to buy a home and anyway the market is presently full of bul+sh+t ripoffs anyway" - where's the contradiction? "

Your post assumes that the market is full of bull and ripoffs, and that's not true. If something is too expensive, you don't buy it. It's pretty simple. If you personally get confused by sparkly objects, that says a lot more about you than me. The extent of his vitrol, pessimism, and emotional baggage indicates a level of angst that goes beyond "the property is not worth what you're paying for it". Specifically, he refuses to buy a home, and he'll do anything to prevent that eventuality.

[typist]

Hong Kong has a GDP per capita of 36 000 USD (9 000 for Thailand). In London, prices are going up because it's a world financial center. In Hong Kong, there is a real scarcity in land...

You're quoting the Purchasing Power Parity figure for Thailand, which is not relevant to the price of real estate.

The nominal per capita GDP for Thailand in 2005 was $3,136. and for Hong Kong $27,466.

The above GDP figures are somehwat misleading, confusing Thailand with Bangkok. Per capita GDP figures for Bangkok are much higher: nominal is closer to 20'000 USD imho.

[pkrv]

Typist - I could not agree more with your comments!

Attempting to group areas of Thailand, let alone Bangkok from a GDP perspective (and indeed types of property Houses vs. Condominiums vs. Freehold vs. Leasehold) is a task best left to the brain dead.

A few 100 yards can make a massive difference (in Bangkok alone!)

[pkrv]

Apologies stolen from another thread and indeed forum regarding sales at The Address Chidlom - Posted by scl1056

"Quote:

Originally Posted by PKRV

I have seen comments on other threads that The Address has almost sold out (bar a few 2 bedroom apartments)

Can anyone else confirm?"

In an article published in the Bangkok Post on May 17th about the plans for Asian Property Development Plc to spend 800 million baht on three or four land plots for middle-and high-end condominiums and middle- to high-end townhouses, chief executive Anuphong Asavabhokin commented about The Address:

"The Address Chidlom, a high-end condominium worth three billion baht launched in the first quarter, is already 60% sold while three Life condominiums are 50% sold."

The full article can be found on the AP web site in the Investor Relations section. http://www.ap-thai.com/investor_th.html

[bingobongo]

well my dear friends, it appears that the smart money sees the writing on the wall and is moving their dough to Vietnam......oh well, good luck with next weeks political decisions..

but i am sure the dreamers on the board are more astute....

UK property investors shift B2bn in funds to Vietnam

Bangkok Post: 23 May 2007

By: KANANA KATHARANGSIPORN

Thai business climate poor for expansion

Two British investors have shifted to Vietnam two billion baht in property investment planned for Thailand due to the uncertain market caused by political tension, the Foreign Business Act (FBA) and a serious decline in consumer confidence.

''Thailand's property market this year will face a small decrease. This likely goes against the trend in the Asian region as a whole. Thailand seems to be the only country that is not enjoying the benefits of a strong growing property market,'' said the 40-year-old investor.

http://thailand-property-guide.com/?p=news...&NewsID=385

Edited May 24, 2007 by bingobongo

[pete_r]

A picture tells a thousand words.

Taken from Chong Nonsi BTS 15th April, 2007.

I rest my case.

I was at Chon Nonsi station today: The entrance of the Infinity will be literally 20 meters away from the stairs to the Skytrain station. No wonder it is sold out.