Gulf Of Thailand Won't Rise With Global Warming, Expert Claims

[RickBradford]

The Copenhagen conference has opened with the hysterical kind of emotional blackmail you would expect from a propagandist cult -- you know, the little girl who has nightmares about global warming, a laughable attempt if it weren't so tasteless.

But the speaker of the Danish parliament got the Warmists' undies in a bunch by speaking honestly, a heresy to this sea of crooks and charlatans.

“The problem is that lots of people go around saying that the climate change we see is a result of human activity. That is a very dangerous claim,” Parliamentary Speaker and former Finance Minister Thor Pedersen (Lib) said.

“Unfortunately I seem to experience that scientists say: ‘We have a theory’ – then that crosses the road to the politicians who say: ‘We know’. Who can be bothered to hear a scientist who says ‘I have a theory’ when politicians go around saying ‘I know’” Thor Pedersen said.

Thor Pedersen adds that the temperature has not risen in the past decade.

“I’m not saying that in the decade that the temperature has fallen or stagnated is enough to evaluate developments. But one should only say what one knows,” the Speaker adds.

“You should say that although we believed in our models, that the temperature would rise from 1998 to 2008, we have to admit that it has not risen. We cannot explain why it has not risen, but we believe we still have a problem. I’m just asking that people say what they actually know,”

If there were more people like him, a debate on the planet's environment might go a lot better.

Man-made global warming: the gift that keeps on taking.

Edited December 8, 2009 by RickBradford

[brahmburgers]

Arco was big oil, and they were one of the first to come forward with solar panels for sale. Same for BP and some others.

Also, if big oil owns the rights to the oil in the ground, then why should they worry? It's like money in the bank. Prices of crude will only ratchet upwards as the years go by. Crude might be as expensive as almond oil, pound for pound, in fifty years, when reserves get lower still. They're not making any more of the stuff.

Though there are some alternatives peeking through the cracks - which may be commercially plausible in the future.

This year, for the first time, I planted about 200 jatropha trees - mostly experimentally to see what they're about and whether they're suited for my soil/micro-climate. In case you don't know, oil squeeze-pressed from the pea-sized seed can be used as a diesel fuel. Unprocessed, it works best for large engines. Burma is growing them big-time as a way to get weaned from fossil fuel.

Best is to adjust lifestyles to use less of the stuff. There's a guy in Humbolt county, California who refuses to use any transport which uses fossil fuels. We don't have to be that extreme, but a semblance of that attitude would help a lot, if enough people were conservation-conscious.

On the other side of the coin, I just counted the # of 1-meter florescent lamps in one 7-11 (one of the tens of thousands in Thailand). I counted 88 bulbs in a 6 x 10 meter room, and that doesn't count the open door refrigeration displays and other electricity sucking appliances throughout, and the back rooms. Shops like that should be taxed 100 baht per day per square meter when in excess of moderate electricity usage.

[JR Texas]

The Kivalina complaint alleges that oil and energy companies used front groups to mislead the public about climate change science. It discusses how the energy companies "formed and used front groups, fake citizens organizations, and bogus scientific bodies" to publish disinformation on global warming, "prop up discredited studies" to deny the scientific consensus and downplay the severity of global climate change.

The federal district court dismissed the Kivalina case based on the defendants' argument that it involved a political question properly dealt with by the legislative or executive branches. The case has been appealed to the Ninth Circuit.

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091206/civi...-change-deniers

Links to research on on global warming and climate change, many with viewpoints of both BOLs --BIG OIL (Energy Mafia) LOBBYISTS/skeptics--and responsible scientists who are actually working on the climate change challenge:

http://www.realclimate.org/

http://ossfoundation.us/

http://www.skepticalscience.com/

http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/

http://www.grist.org/article/series/skeptics/

http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publi...ic_evidence.htm

http://co2now.org/index.php?option=com_content

Link to investigate the backgrounds of spokespersons on both sides:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=SourceWatch

Links to some lawsuits against BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA (lawsuits actually go back over ten years………there are lots of them and many more will be forthcoming)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008...s.climatechange (Hansen’s view about the Energy Mafia’s (BIG OIL’s) crimes against humanity)

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091206/civi...-change-deniers (citizens taking the skeptics to court)

http://www.scienceprogress.org/2008/07/glo...rming-in-court/

(more legal action against BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA)

http://www.theenergylawblog.com/2009/08/ar...-valorem-taxes/ (still more legal action)

http://patagonia-under-siege.blogspot.com/...gainst-big.html (and still more)

The list goes on and on and on…with lots more to come…it is similar to what happened when the public finally came to terms with what the tobacco industry was doing…..but this time it is BIG OIL (ENERGY MAFIA) that will pay the price for its illegal activities/crimes against humanity.

Link exposing the destructive activities of ExxonMobile (an ENERGY MAFIA GIANT): http://www.exxposeexxon.com/ (exxposeexxon.com)

BIG OIL (ENERGY MAFIA) wants us dependent on their environmentally unsound, centralized energy platform for the next 100 years (actually, forever). The last thing they want is for us to demand a decentralized energy platform.

CENTRALIZED ENERGY = CONTINUED ECONOMIC SLAVERY AND DEPENDENCY ON BIG OIL, AS WELL AS ENVIRONMENTAL DESTRUCTION AND SOCIAL CHAOS

DECENTRALIZED ENERGY = FREEDOM AND THE EMPOWERMENT OF THE INDIVIDUAL

BIG OIL = THE FOSSIL FUEL ENERGY MAFIA

This is interesting:

Wonder how that relates to this:

And this:

[RickBradford]

^^

Watch out for those double posts, it just wastes space and bandwidth.

The core group of "scientists" fingered in Climategate for dirty tricks have a history of media manipulation as long as their history of data manipulation.

The Goon Squad has no science, so spends its time trying to block everyone else's science.

Michael "Hide The Decline" Mann (far left), writes:

“I see that Science (the journal) has already gone online w/ the new issue, so we put up the RC [RealClimate] post. By now, you’ve probably read that nasty McIntyre thing. Apparently, he violated the embargo on his website (I don’t go there personally, but so I’m informed). Anyway, I wanted you guys to know that you’re free to use RC in any way you think would be helpful. Gavin and I are going to be careful about what comments we screen through, and we’ll be very careful to answer any questions that come up to any extent we can. On the other hand, you might want to visit the thread and post replies yourself. We can hold comments up in the queue and contact you about whether or not you think they should be screened through or not, and if so, any comments you’d like us to include. You’re also welcome to do a followup guest post, etc. think of RC as a resource that is at your disposal to combat any disinformation put forward by the McIntyres of the world. Just let us know. We’ll use our best discretion to make sure the skeptics don’t get to use the RC comments as a megaphone…”

Man-made global warming: a vested interest in creating panic.

Edited December 8, 2009 by RickBradford

[Spee]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008...s.climatechange (Hansen’s view about the Energy Mafia’s (BIG OIL’s) crimes against humanity)

Anyone quoting James Hansen as a valid scientific source is as far off the deep end as he is.

Outside the small circle of die-hard lemmings and enviro-wacko nutcases, the guy has no more credibility than people like Madoff, Spitzer, Ahmedinajad and Thaksin. He is a corrupt liar who has shown time and time again that he is willing to purposely pervert the scientific process and deceitfully distort data, models and facts in order to further a political agenda.

I would submit that before all is said and done, Hansen is going to be prosecuted and sent to prison for decades of misuse of government funds. It is against the law in the United States for a taxpayer-funded researcher to use those research funds for political purposes. The evidence against Hansen (one of many) is overwhelming.

Hansen has led the NASA Goddard Institute of Space Studies since its inception more than 20 years ago. The GISS was originally founded to perform research on planetary atmospheres using research instruments such as telescopes and satellites. Hansen is personally responsible for perverting the original GISS purpose into one solely focused on being his personal pulpit to push a global warming political agenda. This is felonious misuse of public funds, and I hope that someday soon, someone has the stones to hold this clown accountable.

Hansen is quoted as saying "The trains carrying coal to power plants are death trains." I'd like to see him walk through the coal-mining towns of Pennsylvania and West Virginia and try to get away with making such ludicrous statements in public. He'd be lucky to get out with his life.

Hansen is more than just a crooked scientist. He is a crook, plain pure and simple.

[JR Texas]

Hansen is smarter than all of us combined times 1000..........

He is right, BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA (and the BOLs) should be put on trial for crimes against humanity.

And we may be getting closer and closer to that:

Source: http://www.scienceprogress.org/2008/07/glo...rming-in-court/

Recent Climate Lawsuits Are Just the Tip of the Iceberg

Suing companies that pump greenhouse gas emissions into the atmosphere for damage to cities and states proved difficult a few years ago. But the latest court rulings could set the stage for a climactic battle over who pays for overheating the planet.

“…the biggest court decision yet, which the Georgia case relied on prominently: Last year’s ruling (2007) by the U.S. Supreme Court, in Massachusetts v. EPA, that carbon dioxide counts as a pollutant under the Clean Air Act and can be regulated as such. It was the most significant legal triumph on the climate issue so far,…”

“…courts are beginning to notice the swell of cultural change that we see rising all around us on the climate issue. We’re moving closer and closer, as a society, to fully accepting our responsibility to deal with global warming, and the courts—which have often served as a kind of barometer of social change—are moving right along with us.”

“…now, the village of Kivalina, Alaska, is suing ExxonMobil and 24 other fossil fuel energy companies for direct monetary damages, and accusing them not only of public nuisance, but of conspiracy to obscure the fact of global warming and its human causation. Kivalina ranks high among the most directly victimized places in the world from global warming—melting sea ice has left it less protected from storms which are eroding the town itself. It will have to be moved, a process that will cost hundreds of millions of dollars. Climate change is affecting Arctic regions more dramatically than anywhere else in the world—meaning Arctic plaintiffs have the strongest legal case, and Kivalina perhaps the strongest of all.”

Note: In terms of a legal movement, this is the same pattern we saw after the public came to terms with the damage caused by the tobacco industry. You no doubt recall that the tobacco industry did everything in its power to convince the public that cigarettes do not cause cancer. Now BIG OIL (ENERGY MAFIA) is doing everything in its power to convince the public that global warming/climate change is a myth. The tobacco industry was wrong and negligent. And so is BIG OIL (ENERGY MAFIA). This time, however, the propaganda machine is also going on trial.

Links to research on on global warming and climate change, many with viewpoints of both BOLs --BIG OIL (Energy Mafia) LOBBYISTS/skeptics--and responsible scientists who are actually working on the climate change challenge:

http://www.realclimate.org/

http://ossfoundation.us/

http://www.skepticalscience.com/

http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/

http://www.grist.org/article/series/skeptics/

http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publi...ic_evidence.htm

http://co2now.org/index.php?option=com_content

Link to investigate the backgrounds of spokespersons on both sides:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=SourceWatch

Links to some lawsuits against BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA (lawsuits actually go back over ten years………there are lots of them and many more will be forthcoming)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008...s.climatechange (Hansen’s view about the Energy Mafia’s (BIG OIL’s) crimes against humanity)

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091206/civi...-change-deniers (citizens taking the skeptics to court)

http://www.scienceprogress.org/2008/07/glo...rming-in-court/

(more legal action against BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA)

http://www.theenergylawblog.com/2009/08/ar...-valorem-taxes/ (still more legal action)

http://patagonia-under-siege.blogspot.com/...gainst-big.html (and still more)

The list goes on and on and on…with lots more to come…it is similar to what happened when the public finally came to terms with what the tobacco industry was doing…..but this time it is BIG OIL (ENERGY MAFIA) that will pay the price for its illegal activities/crimes against humanity.

Link exposing the destructive activities of ExxonMobile (an ENERGY MAFIA GIANT): s thttp://www.exxposeexxon.com/he world'

Transition from oil to renewable energy 100 years away, says Exxon Mobil

Oil giant claims ‘no viable alternatives’ will emerge in the next century.

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/energy/st...ys-exxon-mobilt private

BIG OIL (ENERGY MAFIA) wants us dependent on their environmentally unsound, centralized energy platform for the next 100 years (actually, forever). The last thing they want is for us to demand a decentralized energy platform.

CENTRALIZED ENERGY = CONTINUED ECONOMIC SLAVERY AND DEPENDENCY ON BIG OIL, AS WELL AS ENVIRONMENTAL DESTRUCTION AND SOCIAL CHAOS

DECENTRALIZED ENERGY = FREEDOM AND THE EMPOWERMENT OF THE INDIVIDUAL

BIG OIL = THE FOSSIL FUEL ENERGY MAFIA

By the way, does it really take ten of you to respond to one of my posts? Of course, you are not really responding.....just the same old stuff: character assassination attempts, science/reason assassination attempts, manipulation/distortion of facts, sarcastic comments, avoiding the actual science, shouting "It's a conspiracy" over and over again........you are transparent.

[Spee]

The climate change hypocrisy in a nutshell ....

Media reporting from the Copenhagen climate change summit are indicating that approximately 140 private jets and 1200 limousines are in use to accommodate the Politburo marxists and noveau-riche self-righteous do as I say not as I do hypocrites.

I don't normally care for the UK Telegraph, but their tongue-in-cheek poking fun is a good piece:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhage...iar-wedges.html

[teatree]

Civil Conspiracy Lawsuits Filed Against Climate Change Deniers

How long will it be before skepticism over AGW is made illegal?

This is how desperate the warmers are getting.

[JR Texas]

I hope this makes your day a lot happier:

Sue Big Oil Over Global Warming? Court Tells Katrina Victims, Yes You Can!

Source: http://industry.bnet.com/energy/10002353/s...ms-yes-you-can/

Groundbreaking Lawsuit Accuses Big Oil of Conspiracy to Deceive Public About Climate Change

Source: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/3/groun...uses_big_oil_of

Big Oil Going The Way Of Big Tobacco?

Source: http://bexhuff.com/2008/06/big-oil-going-t...-of-big-tobacco

“Early anti-tobacco lawsuits all ended the same way: the judge would declare that every consumer product has some danger, but its not the judge's responsibility to decided an acceptable level of safety.

Defining what is an "acceptable level of safety" is up to Congress... who are always on top of things...

This of course led Big Tobacco in the past -- just like Big Oil right now -- to funnel millions of dollars to "skeptical" scientists, and use them to pass off PR as genuine research... and use that to influence congress and the media into inaction. Not to mention the millions in campaign contributions, free trips, lobbyist jobs, etc. etc. etc.

Unfortunately, Big Tobacco finally realized the flaw in that plan:

• When you pass of PR as genuine scientific research, it is a lie.

• When you lie about consumer products you sell, it is fraud.

• When you defraud consumers, class action lawsuits are not far behind.

• When you get sued, you have to produce old memos, emails, and data relevant to the case... which are usually very incriminating

The Steves' plan is not to claim that oil is causing "too much harm." The plan is to prove that Big Oil used both licit and illicit means to downplay the actual harm of their product, whatever that harm may be. Essentially, when companies engage in fraud, they make it impossible for a consumer to make a reasonable choice about whether or not to use their product... and congress has a long list of laws against that...”

Having a nice day, BOLs?

[Spee]

Defining what is an "acceptable level of safety" is up to Congress...

Really ?? By all means, tell us where in the Constitution this is defined as one of Congress' few enumerated powers.

(Congress) ... who are always on top of things...

Yes, of course, this is illustrated clearly by the lowest approval ratings in polling history (15% and falling like a stone).

JR, when are you going to 'fess-up, change your tack and get something right for a change?

[RickBradford]

• When you pass of[f] PR as genuine scientific research, it is a lie.

• When you get sued, you have to produce old memos, emails, and data relevant to the case... which are usually very incriminating

Yes, Michael Mann and Phil Jones and the rest of the fundamental warmist crooks, are in very deep s**t.

Luckily, we have those e-mails and data, so they can't fudge those as well.

[teatree]

I hope this makes your day a lot happier:

Having a nice day, BOLs?

I don't like our reliance on oil any more than the most fervent warmer.

Referring to anyone who casts doubt on AGW as lobbying for big oil shows up your bigotry and lack of understanding of the issue.

[JR Texas]

Oh.......now I am a bigot

Here is more stuff to make your day a good one:

Industry Ignored Its Scientists on Climate

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/science/earth/24deny.html

For more than a decade the Global Climate Coalition, a group representing industries with profits tied to fossil fuels, led an aggressive lobbying and public relations campaign against the idea that emissions of heat-trapping gases could lead to global warming.

“The role of greenhouse gases in climate change is not well understood,” the coalition said in a scientific “backgrounder” provided to lawmakers and journalists through the early 1990s, adding that “scientists differ” on the issue.

But a document filed in a federal lawsuit demonstrates that even as the coalition worked to sway opinion, its own scientific and technical experts were advising that the science backing the role of greenhouse gases in global warming could not be refuted.

First Global Warming Lawsuit Against US Polluters a Success

Source: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/09/fi...mate-change.php

"This is the first time this kind of cause of action has been recognized,"[steve Jones, chairman of Marten Law] said. "This really opens the door for a lot of potential claims to be brought by other kinds of plaintiffs. You're a coastal community, you spend money to adapt and you've got to raise your waterfront and put in extra infrastructure to deal with rising sea levels. You'd have a claim under this ruling."

States sue EPA to move on global warming

Citing Supreme Court ruling, allies want to force rules within 60 days

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23919234/

Courts Are Open for Climate Change Lawsuits against Power Companies

Source: http://www.internationallawoffice.com/News...25-d725987b458d

[RickBradford]

JR, when are you going to 'fess-up, change your tack and get something right for a change?

Ain't never gonna happen, Spee.

Fundamentalist warming cranks have hides as thick as a rhinoceros, an animal they resemble in many ways; they're bad-tempered, dim, short-sighted with generally poor vision, blunder about aimlessly treading on things, and dump huge piles of crap everywhere. And they're an endangered species.

Global warming: a complete moral and intellectual bankruptcy striving to bring about complete financial bankruptcy.

“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?” - Maurice Strong, founder of the UN Environment Programme

[tig28]

Also, if big oil owns the rights to the oil in the ground, then why should they worry? It's like money in the bank. Prices of crude will only ratchet upwards as the years go by. Crude might be as expensive as almond oil, pound for pound, in fifty years, when reserves get lower still. They're not making any more of the stuff.

Awww.... c'mon brahmburgers ... you are obviously in the pay of JR"s big oil !! Reason shall get short shrift from the rabid conspiracy theorists here.

But if you like a really good conspiracy theory ---- particularly a accurate one ---- then I suggest you listen to this radio interview from Australia -- which does involve Thailand -- indeed every country in the world. It is worth listening to regardless of your opinion of Alan Jones (the commentator), your political persuasion or current views on Global Warming or Climate Change.

It is a VERY interesting discussion. Listen to what is being planned in the VERY near future -- December 2009 in fact -- as it has implications for every nation --- as a One World Government is to be created.(note for JR)

http://2gb.com.au/index2.php?option=com_ne...iew&id=4998

C'mon JR --- This should be right down your alley !!!!

[RickBradford]

^^

Great link, thanks.

That big government stuff is very scary. Not being American, I can't gauge how important it was that Obama used the EPA greenhouse gas statement to sidestep Congress on the climate bill, but on the face of it, it didn't sound good.

Edited December 8, 2009 by RickBradford

[JR Texas]

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud

In the broadest sense, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual. The specific legal definition varies by legal jurisdiction. Fraud is a crime, and is also a civil law violation.

Fraud can be committed through many methods, including mail, wire, phone, and the internet (computer crime and internet fraud).

From: Source: http://bexhuff.com/2008/06/big-oil-going-t...-of-big-tobacco

• When you pass of PR as genuine scientific research, it is a lie.

• When you lie about consumer products you sell, it is fraud.

• When you defraud consumers, class action lawsuits are not far behind.

• When you get sued, you have to produce old memos, emails, and data relevant to the case... which are usually very incriminating

The plan is to prove that Big Oil used both licit and illicit means to downplay the actual harm of their product, whatever that harm may be. Essentially, when companies engage in fraud, they make it impossible for a consumer to make a reasonable choice about whether or not to use their product... and congress has a long list of laws against that...”

Links to research on on global warming and climate change, many with viewpoints of both BOLs --BIG OIL (Energy Mafia) LOBBYISTS/skeptics--and responsible scientists who are actually working on the climate change challenge:

http://www.realclimate.org/

http://ossfoundation.us/

http://www.skepticalscience.com/

http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/

http://www.grist.org/article/series/skeptics/

http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publi...ic_evidence.htm

http://co2now.org/index.php?option=com_content

Link to investigate the backgrounds of spokespersons on both sides:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=SourceWatch

Links to some lawsuits against BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA (lawsuits actually go back over ten years………there are lots of them and many more will be forthcoming)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008...s.climatechange (Hansen’s view about the Energy Mafia’s (BIG OIL’s) crimes against humanity)

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091206/civi...-change-deniers (citizens taking the skeptics to court)

http://www.scienceprogress.org/2008/07/glo...rming-in-court/

(more legal action against BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA)

http://www.theenergylawblog.com/2009/08/ar...-valorem-taxes/ (still more legal action)

http://patagonia-under-siege.blogspot.com/...gainst-big.html (and still more)

Sue Big Oil Over Global Warming? Court Tells Katrina Victims, Yes You Can!

Source: http://industry.bnet.com/energy/10002353/s...ms-yes-you-can/

Groundbreaking Lawsuit Accuses Big Oil of Conspiracy to Deceive Public About Climate Change

Source: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/3/groun...uses_big_oil_of

Big Oil Going The Way Of Big Tobacco?

Source: http://bexhuff.com/2008/06/big-oil-going-t...-of-big-tobacco

Industry Ignored Its Scientists on Climate

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/science/earth/24deny.html

For more than a decade the Global Climate Coalition, a group representing industries with profits tied to fossil fuels, led an aggressive lobbying and public relations campaign against the idea that emissions of heat-trapping gases could lead to global warming.

“The role of greenhouse gases in climate change is not well understood,” the coalition said in a scientific “backgrounder” provided to lawmakers and journalists through the early 1990s, adding that “scientists differ” on the issue.

But a document filed in a federal lawsuit demonstrates that even as the coalition worked to sway opinion, its own scientific and technical experts were advising that the science backing the role of greenhouse gases in global warming could not be refuted.

First Global Warming Lawsuit Against US Polluters a Success

Source: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/09/fi...mate-change.php

"This is the first time this kind of cause of action has been recognized,"[steve Jones, chairman of Marten Law] said. "This really opens the door for a lot of potential claims to be brought by other kinds of plaintiffs. You're a coastal community, you spend money to adapt and you've got to raise your waterfront and put in extra infrastructure to deal with rising sea levels. You'd have a claim under this ruling."

States sue EPA to move on global warming

Citing Supreme Court ruling, allies want to force rules within 60 days

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23919234/

Courts Are Open for Climate Change Lawsuits against Power Companies

Source: http://www.internationallawoffice.com/News...25-d725987b458d

The list goes on and on and on…with lots more to come…it is similar to what happened when the public finally came to terms with what the tobacco industry was doing…..but this time it is BIG OIL (ENERGY MAFIA) that will pay the price for its illegal activities/crimes against humanity.

Link exposing the destructive activities of ExxonMobile (an ENERGY MAFIA GIANT): s thttp://www.exxposeexxon.com/he world'

Transition from oil to renewable energy 100 years away, says Exxon Mobil

Oil giant claims ‘no viable alternatives’ will emerge in the next century.

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/energy/st...ys-exxon-mobilt private

[JR Texas]

Why.. I haven't followed this debate at all but I liked JR's post even though it's somewhat hyperbolic.. After all you could make the comparison with a car as well; a VW Beetle form the 1940s isn't radically different from what we drive today; there's be evolutional progress (as there has been with energy), bit it's not like a car folds into your pocket and a 1 hour charge keeps it running for a day or two.

Still, the underlying point is that if people's minds are REALLY put to it, a lot more energy could be generated around people's houses for personal use.

Thank you.........but I disagree with your statement about the early VW being radically different from the new one.........yes, the latter is more energy efficient, but it is basically the same internal combustion engine.

If we had we put some serious R&D in it, virtually all of the cars today would be environmentally sound.

A decentralized, mobile (can put it in the back of your truck) energy device that is cheap, powerful (safe) and pollution free is BIG OIL's/ENERGY MAFIA'S worst nightmare.

The opposition continues talking about BIG GOVERNMENT as if it has not yet been created. I wonder what planet they are living on. BIG GOVERNMENT is here now.

If you want more government in your life, just listen to the BOLs.......they are actually arguing for total slavery to BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA and BIG GOVERNMENT.

If you want freedom from both, you eliminate the need for both. That involves a decentralized energy solution that will solve most of our economic, social, and environmental problems. Solve those problems and government becomes less, not more necessary.

And, of course, BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA gets placed in the museum of ancient technology for future generations to muse over.

Links to research on on global warming and climate change, many with viewpoints of both BOLs --BIG OIL (Energy Mafia) LOBBYISTS/skeptics--and responsible scientists who are actually working on the climate change challenge:

http://www.realclimate.org/

http://ossfoundation.us/

http://www.skepticalscience.com/

http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/

http://www.grist.org/article/series/skeptics/

http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publi...ic_evidence.htm

http://co2now.org/index.php?option=com_content

Link to investigate the backgrounds of spokespersons on both sides:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=SourceWatch

Links to some lawsuits against BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA (lawsuits actually go back over ten years………there are lots of them and many more will be forthcoming)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008...s.climatechange (Hansen’s view about the Energy Mafia’s (BIG OIL’s) crimes against humanity)

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091206/civi...-change-deniers (citizens taking the skeptics to court)

http://www.scienceprogress.org/2008/07/glo...rming-in-court/

(more legal action against BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA)

http://www.theenergylawblog.com/2009/08/ar...-valorem-taxes/ (still more legal action)

http://patagonia-under-siege.blogspot.com/...gainst-big.html (and still more)

Sue Big Oil Over Global Warming? Court Tells Katrina Victims, Yes You Can!

Source: http://industry.bnet.com/energy/10002353/s...ms-yes-you-can/

Groundbreaking Lawsuit Accuses Big Oil of Conspiracy to Deceive Public About Climate Change

Source: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/3/groun...uses_big_oil_of

Big Oil Going The Way Of Big Tobacco?

Source: http://bexhuff.com/2008/06/big-oil-going-t...-of-big-tobacco

Industry Ignored Its Scientists on Climate

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/science/earth/24deny.html

For more than a decade the Global Climate Coalition, a group representing industries with profits tied to fossil fuels, led an aggressive lobbying and public relations campaign against the idea that emissions of heat-trapping gases could lead to global warming.

“The role of greenhouse gases in climate change is not well understood,” the coalition said in a scientific “backgrounder” provided to lawmakers and journalists through the early 1990s, adding that “scientists differ” on the issue.

But a document filed in a federal lawsuit demonstrates that even as the coalition worked to sway opinion, its own scientific and technical experts were advising that the science backing the role of greenhouse gases in global warming could not be refuted.

First Global Warming Lawsuit Against US Polluters a Success

Source: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/09/fi...mate-change.php

"This is the first time this kind of cause of action has been recognized,"[steve Jones, chairman of Marten Law] said. "This really opens the door for a lot of potential claims to be brought by other kinds of plaintiffs. You're a coastal community, you spend money to adapt and you've got to raise your waterfront and put in extra infrastructure to deal with rising sea levels. You'd have a claim under this ruling."

States sue EPA to move on global warming

Citing Supreme Court ruling, allies want to force rules within 60 days

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23919234/

Courts Are Open for Climate Change Lawsuits against Power Companies

Source: http://www.internationallawoffice.com/News...25-d725987b458d

The list goes on and on and on…with lots more to come…it is similar to what happened when the public finally came to terms with what the tobacco industry was doing…..but this time it is BIG OIL (ENERGY MAFIA) that will pay the price for its illegal activities/crimes against humanity.

Link exposing the destructive activities of ExxonMobile (an ENERGY MAFIA GIANT): s thttp://www.exxposeexxon.com/he world'

Transition from oil to renewable energy 100 years away, says Exxon Mobil

Oil giant claims ‘no viable alternatives’ will emerge in the next century.

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/energy/st...ys-exxon-mobilt priva

BIG OIL (ENERGY MAFIA) wants us dependent on their environmentally unsound, centralized energy platform for the next 100 years (actually, forever). The last thing they want is for us to demand a decentralized energy platform.

CENTRALIZED ENERGY = CONTINUED ECONOMIC SLAVERY AND DEPENDENCY ON BIG OIL, AS WELL AS ENVIRONMENTAL DESTRUCTION AND SOCIAL CHAOS

DECENTRALIZED ENERGY = FREEDOM AND THE EMPOWERMENT OF THE INDIVIDUAL

BIG OIL = THE FOSSIL FUEL ENERGY MAFIA

[Jirapa]

The biggest threat to the rising water levels in Thailand is the amount of humungous Europeans wearing skimpy bathers jumping into the beach at Pattaya.

So I say ban fat bathers before we worry about global warming.

You fool! The fat bathers are the reason Thailand "won't" have any problem with rising sea levels as they displace all the water. Look at the drunken larger filled beer belly who flops into a pool. The water is displaced and moves to the otherside of the pool creating a wave and soaking the beauties sitting on the opposite poolside. Now imagine that on a much larger scale.......say 2 million or so fat ferrang a year jumping into the seas of Thailand? That's a lot of displaced water travelling away from the coast resulting in the reduction of sea level between 0.3 and 0.6cm over the past 8 years. That's science as I just did the math on my abacus!

Due to this a bill has recently been passed to grant FREE non binding open multiple entry visas to all ferrang over the 130kg threshold which should be in place by mid January in an effort to combat the effects of climate change. Apparently beachside bungalows and junk food vouchers will also be thrown in at cost price. Drinks not included!

Save the World!

[brahmburgers]

But if you like a really good conspiracy theory ---- particularly a accurate one ---- then I suggest you listen to this radio interview from Australia -- which does involve Thailand -- indeed every country in the world. It is worth listening to regardless of your opinion of Alan Jones (the commentator), your political persuasion or current views on Global Warming or Climate Change. It is a VERY interesting discussion. Listen to what is being planned in the VERY near future -- December 2009 in fact -- as it has implications for every nation --- as a One World Government is to be created.(note for JR)

http://2gb.com.au/index2.php?option=com_ne...iew&id=4998

I listened to the interview. Lord Mockton is my same age, though he's a bit more refined (and richer) than me. I drive around in a beat up p.u. truck that sounds like a barrel of nuts and bolts being rolled down a bumpy hill. Much of what he claims in the sounds interesting. However, he summarizes documents (probably opinionated/subjectively) without giving actual quotes. He and the interviewer appear to have the same agenda, namely: put down global warming and related treaties with vigor.

If glaciers stop drastically receding and the Arctic/Greenland's ice doesn't keep melting, then I may cool on my belief that GW is happening. Regardless, my concern is not so much with GW as it is with our one species bespoiling habitat for other species and generally making a filthy mess of the planet.

I predict, within 15 years, there will be a world conference about putting brakes on runaway population growth that will create a lot more fuss than this current GW thing. In particular, the Vatican will have fits, but so too will right wing conservatives, many of the same sorts who are currently the most vociferously against GW.

[RickBradford]

^^

I may cool on my belief that GW is happening

Monckton isn't so much concerned whether temperatures are going up or not (although he believes they are going down).

His main points are:

1. The idea that humans are responsible for this rise is incorrect

2. A powerful cabal of scientists who know this are deliberately lying to conceal the fact

3. Politicians who don't understand or care about the science find the cabal's figures very useful to them

4. The politicians will use this incestuous and bogus structure to push for extra taxes, regulation, control over citizens' lives, and, yes, Big Government, while pretending this is all for "the good of the planet".

It is, Monckton believes, the politician's perfect wet dream -- a way to massively increase and entrench their power while pretending to be altruistic and selfless.

Edited December 8, 2009 by RickBradford

[PhilHarries]

The strange thing is that all the warmists are going ahead with their bash in Copenhagen all as if nothing has happened. They are like the passengers on the Titanic all carrying on with the party because their ship is unsinkable. Any bunch of people who come up with a theory about anything would react to the claims of Climategate and issue statements either admitting that some data may need revisiting or strong rebuttals. But no, they carry on blindly following their dogma like lemmings heading for disaster, no new ideas just plow on regardless, something will turn up.

I predict, within 15 years, there will be a world conference about putting brakes on runaway population growth that will create a lot more fuss than this current GW thing. In particular, the Vatican will have fits, but so too will right wing conservatives, many of the same sorts who are currently the most vociferously against GW.

There is the real problem, not global warming but overpopulation but nobody wants to grab that hot potato. There has to be a brake applied to the increase of our species, either we do it voluntarily or Mother Earth will do it for us and likely as not she'll be a fair bit more ruthless. This will be a very difficult one to sell as any reduction in the birthrate tilts the age balance to the extent that there aren't enough of working age to support the retirees.

Even the WWF is jumping on the GW bandwagon and they've produced a list of animals in danger because of global warming. But when you analyse the list more than half are threatened, not by climate change but by human encroachment on their habitat and poaching. Pandas, Whales, Orang Utans, Elephants to name but three are primarily threatened directly by human activity mainly due to encroachment due to population increase.

[RickBradford]

The strange thing is that all the warmists are going ahead with their bash in Copenhagen all as if nothing has happened.

Not strange at all.

People such as the Warmists who have an urgent emotional need to believe in something will not be deflected by facts and evidence, because their egos wouldn't survive the collapse of their precious and comforting fantasies.

And there's big money involved as well in this scam, don't forget.

Edited December 8, 2009 by RickBradford

[chuckd]

And there's big money involved as well in this scam, don't forget.

And, therein, lies the answer to it all.

This entire scam isn't about saving the world, or saving mankind or saving the lowly cockroach.

It is all about investments being made in alternative sources of energy and how much profit can be made from the scare. Politicians, scientists, insiders, academia and media are all in it for the money.

Al Gore's net worth has increased from something between 1-2 million in 2000 to somwhere between 100-200 million in 2008.

Try telling that to a Warmonger and they will merely say, "We have already had this discussion and you lost. Move on."

_____________________

Oh, by the way, I've been looking for something written by Michelle Malkin about the subject but haven't found anything yet.

[dumball]

Well , All I can say is I find all of this rather hard to believe , in my recent trip to Canada earlier this year , I just about froze my ass off the whole time I was there , except for a few times when it seemed spring had arrived , that was in JULY . I even scrounged some flannel sheets from my daughter , had to wear a jacket in the early mornings and the evening just to take a stroll around the yard , must admit there was no ice on the rain puddles .

[nisakiman]

And here's a little gem to warm the cockles of your hearts...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8401864.stm

And so it starts, the evisceration of freedom of movement.

The thin end of the wedge....

And JR

By the way, does it really take ten of you to respond to one of my posts?

the reason is that you are outnumbered 10 to 1 on this issue.

You could call that a "consensus".

[JR Texas]

I predict, within 15 years, there will be a world conference about putting brakes on runaway population growth that will create a lot more fuss than this current GW thing. In particular, the Vatican will have fits, but so too will right wing conservatives, many of the same sorts who are currently the most vociferously against GW.

Good one Brahmburgers..........we need to take far more action to reduce population levels worldwide. The right-wing-radical-conservative-religious right is causing so many problems today.........on both the population and environmental fronts.

It is interesting that the BOLs continue to shout "one world conspiracy," or "big government." I suppose they have nothing left to use against reason/science. They actually don't understand that by not moving on population and energy they are causing PROBLEMS that must be addressed by GOVERNMENT that causing the ENLARGEMENT OF GOVERNMENT.

Break the BIG OIL/BIG GOVERNMENT status quo, and things change........BIG OIL (ENERGY MAFIA) goes to the museum...........BIG GOVERNMENT starts becoming much smaller as problems diminish worldwide along with the need for governments to respond to problems.

But you have to be able to think to see this............

The BOLs and BIG OIL (ENERGY MAFIA) should be tried for crimes against humanity:

COMMITTING CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY:

SOURCE: http://climateandcapitalism.com/?p=471

Hansen accuses energy execs of crimes against humanity and nature

June 24, 2008

Top climate scientist to Congress: Act fast before time runs out

The director of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, one of the world’s top experts on climate change, told a congressional briefing yesterday that delays by business and politicians have “used up all slack in the schedule for actions needed to defuse the global warming time bomb.”

Unless action is taken quickly, James Hansen said, “it will become impractical to constrain atmospheric carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas produced in burning fossil fuels, to a level that prevents the climate system from passing tipping points that lead to disastrous climate changes that spiral dynamically out of humanity’s control.”

Hansen, who first testified to Congress on global warming 20 years ago, blamed U.S. inaction on a deliberate campaign of misinformation financed by the oil and coal industries.

“Solution of the climate problem requires that we move to carbon-free energy promptly.

“Special interests have blocked transition to our renewable energy future. Instead of moving heavily into renewable energies, fossil companies choose to spread doubt about global warming, as tobacco companies discredited the smoking-cancer link. Methods are sophisticated, including funding to help shape school textbook discussions of global warming.

“CEOs of fossil energy companies know what they are doing and are aware of long-term consequences of continued business as usual. In my opinion, these CEOs should be tried for high crimes against humanity and nature.”

One of many examples their crimes against humanity:

Understanding why climate change means global famine

Source: http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/01/19/...-global-famine/

RECENT AND INTERESTING LEGAL DEVELOPMENT: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas...3433211121.html

Links to research on on global warming and climate change, many with viewpoints of both BOLs --BIG OIL (Energy Mafia) LOBBYISTS/skeptics--and responsible scientists who are actually working on the climate change challenge:

http://www.realclimate.org/

http://ossfoundation.us/

http://www.skepticalscience.com/

http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/

http://www.grist.org/article/series/skeptics/

http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publi...ic_evidence.htm

http://co2now.org/index.php?option=com_content

Link to investigate the backgrounds of spokespersons on both sides:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=SourceWatch

Links to some lawsuits against BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA (lawsuits actually go back over ten years………there are lots of them and many more will be forthcoming)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008...s.climatechange (Hansen’s view about the Energy Mafia’s (BIG OIL’s) crimes against humanity)

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091206/civi...-change-deniers (citizens taking the skeptics to court)

http://www.scienceprogress.org/2008/07/glo...rming-in-court/

(more legal action against BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA)

http://www.theenergylawblog.com/2009/08/ar...-valorem-taxes/ (still more legal action)

http://patagonia-under-siege.blogspot.com/...gainst-big.html (and still more)

Sue Big Oil Over Global Warming? Court Tells Katrina Victims, Yes You Can!

Source: http://industry.bnet.com/energy/10002353/s...ms-yes-you-can/

Groundbreaking Lawsuit Accuses Big Oil of Conspiracy to Deceive Public About Climate Change

Source: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/3/groun...uses_big_oil_of

Big Oil Going The Way Of Big Tobacco?

Source: http://bexhuff.com/2008/06/big-oil-going-t...-of-big-tobacco

Industry Ignored Its Scientists on Climate

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/science/earth/24deny.html

For more than a decade the Global Climate Coalition, a group representing industries with profits tied to fossil fuels, led an aggressive lobbying and public relations campaign against the idea that emissions of heat-trapping gases could lead to global warming.

“The role of greenhouse gases in climate change is not well understood,” the coalition said in a scientific “backgrounder” provided to lawmakers and journalists through the early 1990s, adding that “scientists differ” on the issue.

But a document filed in a federal lawsuit demonstrates that even as the coalition worked to sway opinion, its own scientific and technical experts were advising that the science backing the role of greenhouse gases in global warming could not be refuted.

First Global Warming Lawsuit Against US Polluters a Success

Source: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/09/fi...mate-change.php

"This is the first time this kind of cause of action has been recognized,"[steve Jones, chairman of Marten Law] said. "This really opens the door for a lot of potential claims to be brought by other kinds of plaintiffs. You're a coastal community, you spend money to adapt and you've got to raise your waterfront and put in extra infrastructure to deal with rising sea levels. You'd have a claim under this ruling."

States sue EPA to move on global warming

Citing Supreme Court ruling, allies want to force rules within 60 days

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23919234/

Courts Are Open for Climate Change Lawsuits against Power Companies

Source: http://www.internationallawoffice.com/News...25-d725987b458d

US rules greenhouse gases 'hazards'

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas...3433211121.html

The list goes on and on and on…with lots more to come…it is similar to what happened when the public finally came to terms with what the tobacco industry was doing…..but this time it is BIG OIL (ENERGY MAFIA) that will pay the price for its illegal activities/crimes against humanity.

Link exposing the destructive activities of ExxonMobile (an ENERGY MAFIA GIANT): s thttp://www.exxposeexxon.com/he world'

Transition from oil to renewable energy 100 years away, says Exxon Mobil

Oil giant claims ‘no viable alternatives’ will emerge in the next century.

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/energy/st...ys-exxon-mobilt priva

BIG OIL (ENERGY MAFIA) wants us dependent on their environmentally unsound, centralized energy platform for the next 100 years (actually, forever). The last thing they want is for us to demand a decentralized energy platform that they can’t control and profit from.

CENTRALIZED ENERGY = CONTINUED ECONOMIC SLAVERY AND DEPENDENCY ON BIG OIL AND BIG GOVERNMENT, ENVIRONMENTAL DESTRUCTION AND SOCIAL CHAOS

DECENTRALIZED ENERGY = FREEDOM, LESS GOVERNMENT (BECAUSE OUR SOCIAL, ECONOMIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS WILL BE SOLVED), AND EMPOWERMENT OF INDIVIDUALS

BIG OIL = THE FOSSIL FUEL ENERGY MAFIA (BELONGS IN A MUSEUM)

[Spee]

The strange thing is that all the warmists are going ahead with their bash in Copenhagen all as if nothing has happened.

Not strange at all.

Not only not strange at all, but entirely expected. It is important to remember that this is a religious argument, not a scientific argument. All of these fools are just the true believers who are going to worship their religion and their false prophets.

As noted in my earlier post, it is important to note the hypocrisy of all the limos and private jets ... and the photos of completely empty mass transit cars running overtime to support the worshippers.

It has been noted that in all of the the region there are only about 200 limos. This means that about 1200 limos had to be driven in from all points in Europe to accommodate all of these people. Far be it for them to use taxis and trams.

The hypocrisy would be hysterical if the potential ramifications to personal liberty, right to property and the stability of the free market weren't so threatening.

[JR Texas]

source: http://en.cop15.dk/news/view+news?newsid=2888

Top UN scientist: What Climategate?

In harsh wording Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the IPCC, defends British colleagues whose hacked emails have ignited debate over the credibility of mainstream climate science.

Morten Andersen

08/12/2009 18:30

The hacking of emails from a leading British climate research centre is a “terrible and illegal act”, according to Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) advising the UN negotiations on climate.

“I think this is an illegal act. The only issue that has to be dealt with as far as this occurrence is concerned is to find out who is behind it,” Mr. Pachauri told a press conference according to AFP.

The emails were hacked from computers at the University of East Anglia. As some of the emails seem to reflect attempts by mainstream scientists to block publication of articles by dissenting researchers, the affair has been dubbed “Climategate” by the media. This is a highly misleading phrase according to Rajendra Pachauri:

“One can only surmise that those who have carried out this act have done it with the very clear intention as to influence the process in Copenhagen – but, barring a few isolated voices, people over here are totally convinced of the solidity of the findings of the IPCC report.”

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon concurs: “Nothing that has come out in the public as a result of the recent email hackings has cast doubt on the basic scientific message on climate change and that message is quite clear – that climate is changing much, much faster than we realized and we human beings are the primary cause,” Ban Ki-moon states, according to Reuters. (Photo: Scanpix/Reuters)

BOLS/SKEPTICS TAKEN TO COURT FOR MISREPRESENTING FACTS AND COMMITTING FRAUD:

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091206/civi...-change-deniers

About the "hide the decline" thing. Of course, it did not even happen. The databases agree with each other. That aside, I find it more than interesting that the cartoon posted by the BOLs on "hide the decline" was posted well before the illegal theft of private emails. In terms of legal action against them, that little gem is going to be more than relevant. It was a "set up" from the beginning.

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon concurs: “Nothing that has come out in the public as a result of the recent email hackings has cast doubt on the basic scientific message on climate change and that message is quite clear – that climate is changing much, much faster than we realized and we human beings are the primary cause,” Ban Ki-moon states, according to Reuters. (Photo: Scanpix/Reuters)

Maybe if I increase the size of the font they will get it...................

THE LINKS TO SCIENCE AND REASON

Links to research on on global warming and climate change, many with viewpoints of both BOLs --BIG OIL (Energy Mafia) LOBBYISTS/skeptics--and responsible scientists who are actually working on the climate change challenge:

http://www.realclimate.org/

http://ossfoundation.us/

http://www.skepticalscience.com/

http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/

http://www.grist.org/article/series/skeptics/

http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publi...ic_evidence.htm

http://co2now.org/index.php?option=com_content

Link to investigate the backgrounds of spokespersons on both sides:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=SourceWatch

Links to some lawsuits against BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA (lawsuits actually go back over ten years………there are lots of them and many more will be forthcoming)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008...s.climatechange (Hansen’s view about the Energy Mafia’s (BIG OIL’s) crimes against humanity)

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091206/civi...-change-deniers (citizens taking the skeptics to court)

http://www.scienceprogress.org/2008/07/glo...rming-in-court/

(more legal action against BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA)

http://www.theenergylawblog.com/2009/08/ar...-valorem-taxes/ (still more legal action)

http://patagonia-under-siege.blogspot.com/...gainst-big.html (and still more)

Sue Big Oil Over Global Warming? Court Tells Katrina Victims, Yes You Can!

Source: http://industry.bnet.com/energy/10002353/s...ms-yes-you-can/

Groundbreaking Lawsuit Accuses Big Oil of Conspiracy to Deceive Public About Climate Change

Source: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/3/groun...uses_big_oil_of

Big Oil Going The Way Of Big Tobacco?

Source: http://bexhuff.com/2008/06/big-oil-going-t...-of-big-tobacco

Industry Ignored Its Scientists on Climate

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/science/earth/24deny.html

For more than a decade the Global Climate Coalition, a group representing industries with profits tied to fossil fuels, led an aggressive lobbying and public relations campaign against the idea that emissions of heat-trapping gases could lead to global warming.

“The role of greenhouse gases in climate change is not well understood,” the coalition said in a scientific “backgrounder” provided to lawmakers and journalists through the early 1990s, adding that “scientists differ” on the issue.

But a document filed in a federal lawsuit demonstrates that even as the coalition worked to sway opinion, its own scientific and technical experts were advising that the science backing the role of greenhouse gases in global warming could not be refuted.

First Global Warming Lawsuit Against US Polluters a Success

Source: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/09/fi...mate-change.php

"This is the first time this kind of cause of action has been recognized,"[steve Jones, chairman of Marten Law] said. "This really opens the door for a lot of potential claims to be brought by other kinds of plaintiffs. You're a coastal community, you spend money to adapt and you've got to raise your waterfront and put in extra infrastructure to deal with rising sea levels. You'd have a claim under this ruling."

States sue EPA to move on global warming

Citing Supreme Court ruling, allies want to force rules within 60 days

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23919234/

Courts Are Open for Climate Change Lawsuits against Power Companies

Source: http://www.internationallawoffice.com/News...25-d725987b458d

US rules greenhouse gases 'hazards'

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas...3433211121.html

The list goes on and on and on…with lots more to come…it is similar to what happened when the public finally came to terms with what the tobacco industry was doing…..but this time it is BIG OIL (ENERGY MAFIA) that will pay the price for its illegal activities/crimes against humanity.

Link exposing the destructive activities of ExxonMobile (an ENERGY MAFIA GIANT): s thttp://www.exxposeexxon.com/he world'

Transition from oil to renewable energy 100 years away, says Exxon Mobil

Oil giant claims ‘no viable alternatives’ will emerge in the next century.

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/energy/st...ys-exxon-mobilt priva

COMMITTING CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY:

SOURCE: http://climateandcapitalism.com/?p=471

Hansen accuses energy execs of crimes against humanity and nature

June 24, 2008

Top climate scientist to Congress: Act fast before time runs out

The director of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, one of the world’s top experts on climate change, told a congressional briefing yesterday that delays by business and politicians have “used up all slack in the schedule for actions needed to defuse the global warming time bomb.”

Unless action is taken quickly, James Hansen said, “it will become impractical to constrain atmospheric carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas produced in burning fossil fuels, to a level that prevents the climate system from passing tipping points that lead to disastrous climate changes that spiral dynamically out of humanity’s control.”

Hansen, who first testified to Congress on global warming 20 years ago, blamed U.S. inaction on a deliberate campaign of misinformation financed by the oil and coal industries.

“Solution of the climate problem requires that we move to carbon-free energy promptly.

“Special interests have blocked transition to our renewable energy future. Instead of moving heavily into renewable energies, fossil companies choose to spread doubt about global warming, as tobacco companies discredited the smoking-cancer link. Methods are sophisticated, including funding to help shape school textbook discussions of global warming.

“CEOs of fossil energy companies know what they are doing and are aware of long-term consequences of continued business as usual. In my opinion, these CEOs should be tried for high crimes against humanity and nature.”

One of many examples their crimes against humanity:

Understanding why climate change means global famine

Source: http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/01/19/...-global-famine/

BIG OIL (ENERGY MAFIA) wants us dependent on their environmentally unsound, centralized energy platform for the next 100 years (actually, forever). The last thing they want is for us to demand a decentralized energy platform that they can’t control and profit from.

CENTRALIZED ENERGY = CONTINUED ECONOMIC SLAVERY AND DEPENDENCY ON BIG OIL AND BIG GOVERNMENT, ENVIRONMENTAL DESTRUCTION AND SOCIAL CHAOS

DECENTRALIZED ENERGY = FREEDOM, LESS GOVERNMENT, AND EMPOWERMENT OF INDIVIDUALS

BIG OIL = THE FOSSIL FUEL ENERGY MAFIA

[RickBradford]

JR is a true environmentalist -- he even recycles his own posts.

On to new things. The flatulent farce that is the Copenhagen meeting is already on the verge of collapse because rich countries have decided they don't want to pay the burden for poorer nations.

The document, known as the Danish text was only circulated among delegates from richer countries, hands more power to those rich countries and sidelines the UN's role in all future climate change negotiations. Oh, it scraps the Kyoto protocol as well.

One senior diplomat has called the document "a very dangerous document for developing countries. It is a fundamental reworking of the UN balance of obligations. It is to be superimposed without discussion on the talks".

"It is being done in secret. Clearly the intention is to get [barack] Obama and the leaders of other rich countries to muscle it through when they arrive next week. It effectively is the end of the UN process."

Who would that thought it? Someone making plans behind everyone else's back. Seems they just can't get that chicanery out of their system.

Antonio Hill of Oxfam wasn't happy, either: "This is only a draft but it highlights the risk that when the big countries come together, the small ones get hurting. It proposes a green fund to be run by a board but the big risk is that it will run by the World Bank and the Global Environment Facility [a partnership of 10 agencies including the World Bank and the UN Environment Programme] and not the UN. That would be a step backwards, and it tries to put constraints on developing countries when none were negotiated in earlier UN climate talks."

So much for unity and altruism to "save" the planet.

The fake "science" was busted long ago; now the political solidarity has followed it down the gurgler.

Edited December 9, 2009 by RickBradford