Gulf Of Thailand Won't Rise With Global Warming, Expert Claims

[PhilHarries]

A couple of days before the Copenhagen summit Gordon Brown famously referred to GW sceptics as "flat earthers". Not only is this deeply insulting but predujice like this also has no place in any scientific discussion. Virtually all science has room for sceptics and indeed usually welcomes them as a necessary check on the emerging theories. It's even more of an insult coming from a man who's scientific knowledge comes from reading Dan Dare comics.

If it wasn't for sceptics we would all still believe the earth was flat and a man would die if he travelled faster than 30 miles per hour.

But the juggernaut rolls on with our leaders seemingly falling over them selves to commit more of our money to their new God. Still us "flat earthers" will prevail, just as our forebears the round earthers did, it just remains to be seen how much money will be thrown away chasing dust devils.

[RickBradford]

Skepticism is the highest duty and blind faith the one unpardonable sin. - Thomas H Huxley: (1825-1895) British biologist

[JR Texas]

Skepticism is the highest duty and blind faith the one unpardonable sin. - Thomas H Huxley: (1825-1895) British biologist

The problem is you are not engaged in scientific skepticism...........you are nothing but lobbyists for the Energy Mafia. Science is not on your side. And you are apparently a glutton for punishment.

Some links exposing the BOLs (Big Oil/Energy Mafia lobbyists) for what they are:

Group promoting climate skepticism has extensive ties to Exxon-Mobil

http://rawstory.com/2009/12/climate-skepti...ies-exxonmobil/

Transition from oil to renewable energy 100 years away, says Exxon Mobil

Oil giant claims ‘no viable alternatives’ will emerge in the next century.

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/energy/st...ays-exxon-mobil

Civil Conspiracy Lawsuits Filed Against Climate Change Deniers

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091206/civi...-change-deniers

Groundbreaking Lawsuit Accuses Big Oil of Conspiracy to Deceive Public About Climate Change

Source: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/3/groun...uses_big_oil_of

Climate change sceptics and lobbyists put world at risk, says top adviser

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009...cientist-watson

Skeptical About Climate Change Skeptics

http://www.blogonsmog.com/wet-wednesday/sk...e-skeptics.html

[chuckd]

Whew! What a relief to have JR back with us. It had been 52 hours,12 minutes and 18 seconds since we had any links to look at.

I was becomming worried his Madame Tussaud-like wax figure had wilted under the global warming threat.

...oh, never mind. I see the links are all the same in both posts. Still no new links to inspire and frighten us.

[catmac]

Thanks tig28 for that insight into how panic-stricken the AGW sheep are getting now that their scams have been exposed.

JR, if you have any independent thought left, how do you feel when one of your "scientific" heroes has to bring in a bunch of armed thugs to prevent a journalist asking pertinent questions? A simple reply will do - we don't need a repeat of those 5000 links to your garbage bin, thank you.

[JR Texas]

No doubt: The earth is warming

The British Met Office has released world-wide temperature data into the public domain to give evidence that the globe is warming.

source: http://en.cop15.dk/news/view+news?newsid=2881

And if we continue to rush to put as much CO2 in the atmosphere as possible in as short a time span as possible, we might get close to creating a runaway greenhouse effect.

What is that? That is what is causing temperatures on Venus to reach Hot as Hell levels. Here is a nice picture of Venus:

The greenhouse effect and its relationship to CO2 is real. That is why the earth is heating up. Look at this:

Do you see the trend? Scientists can see trends.......and this one is troubling.

LINKS TO REASON AND SCIENCE

Links to research on on global warming and climate change:

http://www.realclimate.org/

http://ossfoundation.us/

http://www.skepticalscience.com/

http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/

http://www.grist.org/article/series/skeptics/

http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publi...ic_evidence.htm

http://co2now.org/index.php?option=com_content

Link to investigate the backgrounds of spokespersons on both sides:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=SourceWatch

Links to lawsuits against BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA:

Groundbreaking Lawsuit Accuses Big Oil of Conspiracy to Deceive Public About Climate Change

Source: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/3/groun...uses_big_oil_of

Civil Conspiracy Lawsuits Filed Against Climate Change Deniers

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091206/civi...-change-deniers

The Coming Global Warming “Scopes” Trial

Recent Climate Lawsuits Are Just the Tip of the Iceberg

http://www.scienceprogress.org/2008/07/glo...rming-in-court/

For Peru's Indians, Lawsuit Against Big Oil Reflects a New Era - Outsiders, NGOs and High-Tech Tools Help Document Firms' Impact

http://patagonia-under-siege.blogspot.com/...gainst-big.html

Sue Big Oil Over Global Warming? Court Tells Katrina Victims, Yes You Can!

Source: http://industry.bnet.com/energy/10002353/s...ms-yes-you-can/

Big Oil Going The Way Of Big Tobacco?

Source: http://bexhuff.com/2008/06/big-oil-going-t...-of-big-tobacco

Industry Ignored Its Scientists on Climate

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/science/earth/24deny.html

First Global Warming Lawsuit Against US Polluters a Success

Source: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/09/fi...mate-change.php

Courts Are Open for Climate Change Lawsuits against Power Companies

Source: http://www.internationallawoffice.com/News...25-d725987b458d

US rules greenhouse gases 'hazards'

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas...3433211121.html

More links:

Group promoting climate skepticism has extensive ties to Exxon-Mobil

http://rawstory.com/2009/12/climate-skepti...ies-exxonmobil/

Transition from oil to renewable energy 100 years away, says Exxon Mobil

Oil giant claims ‘no viable alternatives’ will emerge in the next century.

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/energy/st...ys-exxon-mobilt

Climate change sceptics and lobbyists put world at risk, says top adviser

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009...cientist-watson

A Climate Deception Revisited: What's Behind the Signatures of 31,478 Skeptical "Scientists"

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20090806/clim...ical-scientists

Understanding why climate change means global famine

Source: http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/01/19/...-global-famine/

No doubt: The earth is warming

The British Met Office has released world-wide temperature data into the public domain to give evidence that the globe is warming.

http://en.cop15.dk/news/view+news?newsid=2881

BIG GOVERNMENT ALREADY EXISTS. There is no conspiracy to create it. Here are just a few examples of global entities that influence us: International Monetary Fund, Bretton Woods, International Bank for Reconstruction and Development, World Bank Group, European Union, G-20, G-77, OPEC, United Nations

*The BOLs want you to focus on BIG GOVERNMENT to distract your attention from the real problem: BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA and its monopolistic/centralized control over the energy you purchase and use.

BIG OIL (FOSSIL FUEL ENERGY MAFIA) wants us dependent on their centralized energy platform for the next 100 years. The last thing they want is for us to think about and demand a decentralized energy platform that they can’t control.

CENTRALIZED ENERGY = ECONOMIC SLAVERY, DEPENDENCY on the ENERGY MAFIA, more BIG GOVERNMENT (because problems will escalate), ENVIRONMENTAL DESTRUCTION, AND SOCIAL CHAOS

DECENTRALIZED ENERGY = ECONOMIC FREEDOM, LESS GOVERNMENT (because problems will be reduced), CLEAN ENVIRONMENT, AND EMPOWERMENT OF INDIVIDUALS and LOCAL COMMUNITIES

[teatree]

CO2 levels are rising exponentially, yet temperature has hit a plateau and is actually in decline. If CO2 drives temperature why is there not an exponential rise in temperatures? Why would UN scientists need to 'hide the decline'?

[chuckd]

Could somebody with a scientific background please point out to JR that Venus is the second closest planet to the sun.

In line with JR's understanding of how the season's on earth work, the photo he posted is obviously summertime on Venus when it is closer to the sun than the wintertime.

It has nothing to do with CO2 or the greenhouse affect. It is simply a mileage problem.

ANOTHER HOT FLASH:

The link entitled, "No Doubt : The Earth is Warming" comes from the Hadley Research Institute, and the check is in the mail.

[RickBradford]

JR takes aim at his foot, and yes, plumb spang in the middle again.

The UK Met office, whom he quotes with such glee, gets its data from, and controls the funding of....

The Met Office Hadley Centre is the UK's foremost climate change research centre. We produce world-class guidance on the science of climate change and provide a focus in the UK for the scientific issues associated with climate change.

As one of the world's leading centres for climate change research, our scientists make significant contributions to peer-reviewed literature and to a variety of climate change reports, including the Assessment Report of the IPCC. Our climate projections were the basis for the Stern Review on the Economics of Climate Change.

Boy, I bet they wish they hadn't said that.

All the AGW bolleaux from one source, parroted by our faithful spammer...

Edited December 12, 2009 by RickBradford

[JR Texas]

Mercury is even closer to the sun..........but Venus is hotter than Mercury.........any idea why? Since I know you have no idea........here is a hint: CO2 in the atmosphere of Venus is trapping heat in the lower atmosphere..........it is a runaway greenhouse effect.

In addition, the temperature is much hotter closer to the planet where the CO2 is trapping heat than in the upper layers of the atmosphere........if the greenhouse effect was not in play, that would not be the case.

All you can do is avoid science, engage in character assassination attempts, distract readers from the real issues, present outright lies and distortions of truth...........it is so transparent, and not only to me.

A good example of your attempt to distort reality is the so-called "list of names" supporting your position. That list is trash.

If you need to assess the validity of a position involving brain surgery, who do you contact? Brain surgeons. Right.

If you need to assess the validity of a position involving veterinary science, who do you contact? Veterinarians. Right.

If you need to assess the validity of a position involving climate science, who do you contact? Climate scientists. Right.

But you don't understand that. The "list" has very few climate scientists on it. The majority of the people on the list have little or no understanding at all of climate science.

As a result, the list is worthless.........yet another example of fraud......it is deliberate deception.

See this:

A Climate Deception Revisited: What's Behind the Signatures of 31,478 Skeptical "Scientists"

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20090806/clim...ical-scientists

All you can do is lie, lie, and lie some more. No wonder you are being taken to court for fraud. One day you will be tried for crimes against humanity.

Groundbreaking Lawsuit Accuses Big Oil of Conspiracy to Deceive Public About Climate Change

Source: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/3/groun...uses_big_oil_of

Civil Conspiracy Lawsuits Filed Against Climate Change Deniers

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091206/civi...-change-deniers

Group promoting climate skepticism has extensive ties to Exxon-Mobil | Raw Story

http://rawstory.com/2009/12/climate-skepti...ies-exxonmobil/

[Sabre]

It seems we are blessed with a great number of hydrologists here on the forum, or at least, scientists, given the number of people who seem to be ridiculing this guy ....

[RickBradford]

I hate to break it to you JR, but someobody filing a lawsuit doesn't automatically mean they have a case. It often means they just want a few bucks.

Mother Sues Town After Child Steps in Dog Dropping

Man Loses Lawsuit Over Flies in Bottled Water -- Waddah Mustapha claims his sex life was ruined after he found two dead flies in his bottled water.

Man Files Suit, Claims Lap Dance Injury

[teatree]

A Climate Deception Revisited: What's Behind the Signatures of 31,478 Skeptical "Scientists"

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20090806/clim...ical-scientists

What about the IPCC scientists? Could you please provide your complete list of all those who agree that climate change is caused by humans and have signed the relevant chapter in the UN IPCC report?

[JR Texas]

The list of climate scientists worldwide that do not support your position is HUGE.........OVERWHELMING CONSENSUS.

But most people who are not lobbyists for the energy mafia know that already..........old news.

Here is something to think about:

Global warming will increase likelihood of civil war in Africa by 55 percent

Source: http://news.mongabay.com/2009/1123-hance_civil.html

There have been many warnings by policymakers that rising temperatures in Africa could lead to civil conflict, however a new study in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences is the first to uncover empirical evidence for these warnings and quantify them. The results—that higher temperatures increased the likelihood of civil war in sub-Saharan Africa by over 50 percent—took aback even the researchers.

"We were definitely surprised that the linkages between temperature and recent conflict were so strong," Edward Miguel, professor of economics at the University of California (UC), Berkeley and faculty director of UC Berkeley's Center for Evaluation for Global Action, told his university.

As James Hansen said, you should be tried for crimes against humanity...........and eventually you will.

Groundbreaking Lawsuit Accuses Big Oil of Conspiracy to Deceive Public About Climate Change

Source: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/3/groun...uses_big_oil_of

Civil Conspiracy Lawsuits Filed Against Climate Change Deniers

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091206/civi...-change-deniers

Group promoting climate skepticism has extensive ties to Exxon-Mobil | Raw Story

http://rawstory.com/2009/12/climate-skepti...ies-exxonmobil/

[termad]

A bit more science in this article. Are there any experts in regional geology, plate tectonics and subsidence rates who wish to comment?

Have a look at 'Bisto's' post in #9, second link; that'll do for you.

LaoPo

Thanks I've copied this from the first link:

quote

Relative sea-level is affected by vertical

land movements caused by tectonic movement,

sedimentation, groundwater and oil extraction.

Warrick et al. (1993) summarized four main

processes affecting sea level changes: (A) glacio-

eustasy, ( emergence/subsidence of land, ©

manmade activity, and (D) ocean-atmosphere

effects (Table 4). These factors vary widely in their

effects on relative changes in sea-level.

Regarding the process ( , vertical land

movements, Yanagi and Akaki (1993) studied sea-

level variation rates from 1950 to 1991 in the East

Asian region. Figure 5, in which the shaded area

denotes where the sea-level falls due to the plate

tectonics, shows that the sea-level has fallen for

the past 40 years in an area including the southern

part of the Sea of Japan, the Korean Peninsula,

Indochina, and the Malay Peninsula.

unquote

So maybe there is some 'method in their madness'!

So you would think that any scientist using the above discussion of the rise and fall of tectonic plates would put forth that the argument that the tectonic plate upon which Thailand and the gulf sit may actually be rising, instead of the absolutely stupid argument that whilst the mean water level in say Alaska will rise, the relative water level in the gulf of thailand will not, leaving a gradual slope between Alaska & Thailand.

"Method to their madness" - grow a brain with some common sense is more to the point.

Cheers,

Soundman.

But if they are correct this will be fantastic news for surfers who will be able to surf from Alaska to Phuket. It will also make Thailand the world surfing hub!

[brahmburgers]

It seems we are blessed with a great number of hydrologists here on the forum, or at least, scientists, given the number of people who seem to be ridiculing this guy ....

Hydrologically speaking, I may not be a hydrologist, but I know enough about water to know it doesn't flow uphill, and that water seeks it's level.

Hydromatically, we're on our way to Hydromeda by way of our Hydromobile powered by Hydrol unleaded. See you at the standing wave.

[tig28]

His Excellency Ban Ki Moon

Secretary-General, United Nations

New York, NY

United States of America

8 December 2009

Dear Secretary-General,

Climate change science is in a period of ‘negative discovery’ - the more we learn about this exceptionally complex and rapidly evolving field the more we realize how little we know. Truly, the science is NOT settled.

Therefore, there is no sound reason to impose expensive and restrictive public policy decisions on the peoples of the Earth without first providing convincing evidence that human activities are causing dangerous climate change beyond that resulting from natural causes. Before any precipitate action is taken, we must have solid observational data demonstrating that recent changes in climate differ substantially from changes observed in the past and are well in excess of normal variations caused by solar cycles, ocean currents, changes in the Earth’s orbital parameters and other natural phenomena.

We the undersigned, being qualified in climate-related scientific disciplines, challenge the UNFCCC and supporters of the United Nations Climate Change Conference to produce convincing OBSERVATIONAL EVIDENCE for their claims of dangerous human-caused global warming and other changes in climate. Projections of possible future scenarios from unproven computer models of climate are not acceptable substitutes for real world data obtained through unbiased and rigorous scientific investigation.

Specifically, we challenge supporters of the hypothesis of dangerous human-caused climate change to demonstrate that:

1.Variations in global climate in the last hundred years are significantly outside the natural range experienced in previous centuries;

2.Humanity’s emissions of carbon dioxide and other ‘greenhouse gases’ (GHG) are having a dangerous impact on global climate;

3.Computer-based models can meaningfully replicate the impact of all of the natural factors that may significantly influence climate;

4.Sea levels are rising dangerously at a rate that has accelerated with increasing human GHG emissions, thereby threatening small islands and coastal communities;

5.The incidence of malaria is increasing due to recent climate changes;

6.Human society and natural ecosystems cannot adapt to foreseeable climate change as they have done in the past;

7.Worldwide glacier retreat, and sea ice melting in Polar Regions , is unusual and related to increases in human GHG emissions;

8.Polar bears and other Arctic and Antarctic wildlife are unable to adapt to anticipated local climate change effects, independent of the causes of those changes;

9.Hurricanes, other tropical cyclones and associated extreme weather events are increasing in severity and frequency;

10.Data recorded by ground-based stations are a reliable indicator of surface temperature trends.

It is not the responsibility of ‘climate realist’ scientists to prove that dangerous human-caused climate change is not happening. Rather, it is those who propose that it is, and promote the allocation of massive investments to solve the supposed ‘problem’, who have the obligation to convincingly demonstrate that recent climate change is not of mostly natural origin and, if we do nothing, catastrophic change will ensue. To date, this they have utterly failed to do so.

Signed by:

1.Habibullo I. Abdussamatov, Dr. Sci., mathematician and astrophysicist, Head of the Russian-Ukrainian Astrometria project on the board of the Russian segment of the ISS, Head of Space Research Laboratory at the Pulkovo Observatory of the Russian Academy of Sciences, St. Petersburg, Russia

2.Göran Ahlgren, docent organisk kemi, general secretary of the Stockholm Initiative, Professor of Organic Chemistry, Stockholm, Sweden

3.Syun-Ichi Akasofu, PhD, Professor of Physics, Emeritus and Founding Director, International Arctic Research Center of the University of Alaska, Fairbanks, Alaska, U.S.A.

4.J.R. Alexander, Professor Emeritus, Dept. of Civil Engineering, University of Pretoria, South Africa; Member, UN Scientific and Technical Committee on Natural Disasters, 1994-2000, Pretoria, South Africa.

5.Jock Allison, PhD, ONZM, formerly Ministry of Agriculture Regional Research Director, Dunedin, New Zealand

[tig28]

The current treaty draft which is being considered at Copenhagen can be read here:

http://www.globalclimatescam.com/documents...nhagen-2009.pdf

It is alleged that this Treaty would cede all National sovereignty.

Some highlights here:

Paragraph 33 of annex 1 (which has already been discussed at UN meetings in Bangkok and Barcelona):

"By 2020 the scale of financial flows to support adaptation in developing countries must be at least USD 67 billion [in the range of USD 70-140 billion] per year."

Plus, says paragraph 17 of annex III E:"developed countries should compensate for damage to the economies of poorer countries and also compensate for lost opportunities, resources, lives, land and dignity caused by greenhouse gases.

Paragraph 41 of annex 1 : "Financial resources of the Convention Adaptation Fund [may] [shall] include: (a) [Assessed contributions [of at least 0.7% of the annual GDP of developed country parties] ... "

.........."historical climate debt, including adaptation debt" climbs to at "at least [0.5-1 per cent of GDP]".

Perhaps BIG ENVIRONMENT is starting to overshadow BIG OIL.

[JR Texas]

There is no doubt........environmentally unsound human economic activities--coupled with population growth--are causing global warming and climate change. That is what the scientific evidence shows........you must be living in some cave with Bin Laden.

Climate change sceptics and lobbyists put world at risk, says top adviser

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009...cientist-watson

Climate change sceptics and fossil fuel companies that have lobbied against action on greenhouse gas emissions have squandered the world's chance to avoid dangerous global warming, a key adviser to the government has said.

Professor Bob Watson, chief scientist at the Department for Environment and Rural Affairs, said a decade of inaction on climate change meant it was now virtually impossible to limit global temperature rise to 2C. He said the delay meant the world would now do well to stabilise warming between 3C and 4C.

The British government last month published a map that laid out the stark details of a world warmer by 4C. It showed that the rise would not be evenly spread across the globe, with temperature rises much larger than 4C in high latitudes such as the Arctic. Because the sea warms more slowly, average land temperature will increase by 5.5C, which scientists said would shrink yields for all major cereal crops on all regions of production. A 4C rise would also have a major impact on water availability, with supplies limited to an extra billion people by 2080.

Skeptics Exaggerating Science Scandal to Derail Copenhagen Climate Talks

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091125/skep...n-climate-talks

"We're facing an effort by special interests who are trying to confuse the public," said Richard Somerville, Distinguished Professor Emeritus at Scripps Institution of Oceanography and a lead author of the UN IPCC Fourth Assessment Report.

Dissenters see action to slow global warming as "a threat," he said.

"There is nothing in the stolen material which indicates that peer-reviewed publications by CRU, and others, on the nature of global warming and related climate change are not of the highest-quality of scientific investigation and interpretation."

"What they've done is search through stolen personal emails—confidential between colleagues who often speak in a language they understand and is often foreign to the outside world. Suddenly, all these are subject to cherry picking," he said.

They've turned "something innocent into something nefarious," Mann added.

This is a "smear campaign to distract the public," said Mann. "Those opposed to climate action, simply don’t have the science on their side," he added.

Professor Davies called the stolen data "the latest example of a sustained and, in some instances, a vexatious campaign" designed "to distract from reasoned debate" about urgent action governments must take to reverse climate change.

According to Somerville, the comments in the emails "have nothing to do with the scientific case" for climate change.

"The scientific evidence which underpins calls for action at Copenhagen is very strong. Without co-ordinated international action on greenhouse gas emissions, the impacts on climate and civilisation could be severe."

LINKS TO REASON AND SCIENCE

Links to research on on global warming and climate change:

http://www.realclimate.org/

http://ossfoundation.us/

http://www.skepticalscience.com/

http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/

http://www.grist.org/article/series/skeptics/

http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publi...ic_evidence.htm

http://co2now.org/index.php?option=com_content

Link to investigate the backgrounds of spokespersons on both sides:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=SourceWatch

Links to lawsuits against BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA:

Groundbreaking Lawsuit Accuses Big Oil of Conspiracy to Deceive Public About Climate Change

Source: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/3/groun...uses_big_oil_of

Civil Conspiracy Lawsuits Filed Against Climate Change Deniers

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091206/civi...-change-deniers

The Coming Global Warming “Scopes” Trial

Recent Climate Lawsuits Are Just the Tip of the Iceberg

http://www.scienceprogress.org/2008/07/glo...rming-in-court/

For Peru's Indians, Lawsuit Against Big Oil Reflects a New Era - Outsiders, NGOs and High-Tech Tools Help Document Firms' Impact

http://patagonia-under-siege.blogspot.com/...gainst-big.html

Sue Big Oil Over Global Warming? Court Tells Katrina Victims, Yes You Can!

Source: http://industry.bnet.com/energy/10002353/s...ms-yes-you-can/

Big Oil Going The Way Of Big Tobacco?

Source: http://bexhuff.com/2008/06/big-oil-going-t...-of-big-tobacco

Industry Ignored Its Scientists on Climate

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/science/earth/24deny.html

First Global Warming Lawsuit Against US Polluters a Success

Source: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/09/fi...mate-change.php

Courts Are Open for Climate Change Lawsuits against Power Companies

Source: http://www.internationallawoffice.com/News...25-d725987b458d

US rules greenhouse gases 'hazards'

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas...3433211121.html

More links:

Group promoting climate skepticism has extensive ties to Exxon-Mobil

http://rawstory.com/2009/12/climate-skepti...ies-exxonmobil/

Transition from oil to renewable energy 100 years away, says Exxon Mobil

Oil giant claims ‘no viable alternatives’ will emerge in the next century.

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/energy/st...ys-exxon-mobilt

Climate change sceptics and lobbyists put world at risk, says top adviser

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009...cientist-watson

A Climate Deception Revisited: What's Behind the Signatures of 31,478 Skeptical "Scientists"

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20090806/clim...ical-scientists

Understanding why climate change means global famine

Source: http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/01/19/...-global-famine/

No doubt: The earth is warming

The British Met Office has released world-wide temperature data into the public domain to give evidence that the globe is warming.

http://en.cop15.dk/news/view+news?newsid=2881

BIG GOVERNMENT ALREADY EXISTS. There is no conspiracy to create it. Here are just a few examples of global entities that influence us: International Monetary Fund, Bretton Woods, International Bank for Reconstruction and Development, World Bank Group, European Union, G-20, G-77, OPEC, United Nations

*The BOLs want you to focus on BIG GOVERNMENT to distract your attention from the real problem: BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA and its monopolistic/centralized control over the energy you purchase and use.

BIG OIL (FOSSIL FUEL ENERGY MAFIA) wants us dependent on their centralized energy platform for the next 100 years. The last thing they want is for us to think about and demand a decentralized energy platform that they can’t control.

CENTRALIZED ENERGY = ECONOMIC SLAVERY, DEPENDENCY on the ENERGY MAFIA, more BIG GOVERNMENT (because problems will escalate), ENVIRONMENTAL DESTRUCTION, AND SOCIAL CHAOS

DECENTRALIZED ENERGY = ECONOMIC FREEDOM, LESS GOVERNMENT (because problems will be reduced), CLEAN ENVIRONMENT, AND EMPOWERMENT OF INDIVIDUALS and LOCAL COMMUNITIES

[JR Texas]

It seems we are blessed with a great number of hydrologists here on the forum, or at least, scientists, given the number of people who seem to be ridiculing this guy ....

Hydrologically speaking, I may not be a hydrologist, but I know enough about water to know it doesn't flow uphill, and that water seeks it's level.

Hydromatically, we're on our way to Hydromeda by way of our Hydromobile powered by Hydrol unleaded. See you at the standing wave.

This is actually on topic and relevant:

http://climatechange.110mb.com/effects-sea-level-rise.htm

I don't understand this fully........but I certainly have read, many times, that the rise in sea level will not be uniform.

Still, that does not mean that if Greenland and the northern and southern ice masses along with all of the glaciers melt, the Gulf of Thailand will be immune.

You can probably find a definitive answer (or close to it) by visiting the websites of Woods Hole and Scripts.

[BangkokJazz]

The question of climate change really doesn't matter. If you have never seen this video, then you should. I understand that the use of logic might put many TV members off, but try to watch the entire video.

Edited December 13, 2009 by BangkokJazz

[chuckd]

The current treaty draft which is being considered at Copenhagen can be read here:

http://www.globalclimatescam.com/documents...nhagen-2009.pdf

It is alleged that this Treaty would cede all National sovereignty.

Some highlights here:

Paragraph 33 of annex 1 (which has already been discussed at UN meetings in Bangkok and Barcelona):

"By 2020 the scale of financial flows to support adaptation in developing countries must be at least USD 67 billion [in the range of USD 70-140 billion] per year."

Plus, says paragraph 17 of annex III E:"developed countries should compensate for damage to the economies of poorer countries and also compensate for lost opportunities, resources, lives, land and dignity caused by greenhouse gases.

Paragraph 41 of annex 1 : "Financial resources of the Convention Adaptation Fund [may] [shall] include: (a) [Assessed contributions [of at least 0.7% of the annual GDP of developed country parties] ... "

.........."historical climate debt, including adaptation debt" climbs to at "at least [0.5-1 per cent of GDP]".

Perhaps BIG ENVIRONMENT is starting to overshadow BIG OIL.

Thanks for the post and the information.

I see no way this treaty will be ratified by the US Senate. Even the Harry Reid led democrats will not commit political suicide by attempting to ratify a treaty that tries to usurp our US Constitution. Remember one thing. Obama can not sign on to anything without Senate ratification. Clinton agreed to Kyoto but his senate voted it down 100-0.

Obama's carbon footprint for this little jaunt is enormous. He arrives on Air Force one (Boeing 747). There will be at least two C-17 cargo planes holding his armored limousines and Marine One (Chinook helicopter). I have heard he took 500 people with him to Oslo so that means at least one more 747 just for the strap hangers. Where's the indignity over this from the GW crowd???

This whole GW scam is nothing more than an attempt to take from the haves and give to the have-nots with many cut-outs in the middle taking their cuts. Remember the UN's Oil for Food Program? The Kofi Annan family did rather well financially on that little plan. So will the Al Gores of this program.

This is turning into a joke anyway. The scientists are now turning on each other and beginning the cannibalization process.

It will be a lesson in futility for the GW fans.

[JR Texas]

So, did you learn something about Venus and Mercury?

It seems there is no cure for lunacy. Unfortunately, the big oil/energy mafia lobbyists have hijacked this thread and refuse to go away, even though every time they post something it hurts their case.

I am certain that BIG OIL would prefer that they stop posting now.........but they seem to enjoy punishment.

My guess is that they all attended MU.......Masochist University.

Here is something on topic:

Sea level does not rise uniformly across the globe

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4555709,00.html

And more links the lawsuits against the flat earth group:

Links to lawsuits against BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA:

Groundbreaking Lawsuit Accuses Big Oil of Conspiracy to Deceive Public About Climate Change

Source: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/3/groun...uses_big_oil_of

Civil Conspiracy Lawsuits Filed Against Climate Change Deniers

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091206/civi...-change-deniers

The Coming Global Warming “Scopes” Trial

Recent Climate Lawsuits Are Just the Tip of the Iceberg

http://www.scienceprogress.org/2008/07/glo...rming-in-court/

For Peru's Indians, Lawsuit Against Big Oil Reflects a New Era - Outsiders, NGOs and High-Tech Tools Help Document Firms' Impact

http://patagonia-under-siege.blogspot.com/...gainst-big.html

Sue Big Oil Over Global Warming? Court Tells Katrina Victims, Yes You Can!

Source: http://industry.bnet.com/energy/10002353/s...ms-yes-you-can/

Big Oil Going The Way Of Big Tobacco?

Source: http://bexhuff.com/2008/06/big-oil-going-t...-of-big-tobacco

Industry Ignored Its Scientists on Climate

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/science/earth/24deny.html

First Global Warming Lawsuit Against US Polluters a Success

Source: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/09/fi...mate-change.php

Courts Are Open for Climate Change Lawsuits against Power Companies

Source: http://www.internationallawoffice.com/News...25-d725987b458d

US rules greenhouse gases 'hazards'

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas...3433211121.html

[chuckd]

So, did you learn something about Venus and Mercury?

No, but I learned all I need to know about you when you posted that ridiculous summer/winter argument.

Does your mommy know you spend all this time on the internet?

[animatic]

Good explanation of the risks involved.

Inaction seems a much poorer choice.

[JR Texas]

Good explanation.......it is about risk management. In this case, the entire planet is at stake!

The Flat Earth Big Oil Lobbyists (ENERGY MAFIA supporters) really seem to hate the following post. I can tell because every time I post it they post ten quick posts to push it back hoping people will not see it. So, it is time to post it again:

Think about this:

In the late 40s the ENIAC was developed......it was the first computer........it was very big (as big as a house); it was immobile; it was expensive. Here is what it looked like:

Because we decided to do so and believed it was possible, we now have this:

It is a Blackberry........it does a lot more than the ENIAC (along with your laptop/notebook computer)........it is small (can fit in your pocket); it is mobile; it is not expensive (compared to the ENIAC).

Going from the ENIAC to the Blackberry represents a massive improvement.

Now, look at a typical fossil fuel energy plant 50 years ago:

It is similar to the ENIAC........very big; immobile; expensive........not for personal use.

Here is a typical fossil fuel energy plant today:

Does it look like the Blackberry model or the ENIAC model........it looks like the ENIAC model......still very big; immobile; expensive......not for personal use.

In short, because we decided to do so, we made great improvements in the computer field.

Because we decided not to do so, we made almost no improvements in the energy field......still dominated by a big, centralized, immobile, expensive, energy platform...........one that is damaging the planet and causing massive social and economic problems.

BIG OIL/ENERGY MAFIA (that means the entire fossil fuel industry and its major backers/players, including BIG GOVERNMENT, banks, and the automobile industry) wants us to continue using its destructive products for the next 100 years.

Transition from oil to renewable energy 100 years away, says Exxon Mobil

Oil giant claims ‘no viable alternatives’ will emerge in the next century.

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/energy/st...ays-exxon-mobil

We can't afford that..........it is time to move forward on the energy front. We must move away from our Stone Age Fossil Fuel Energy platform and develop an energy system that has the qualities of the Blackberry.

It is one key to the improvement of the quality of life (all life) on the planet. The other key is a massive reduction in the size of the human population.

If we do not do these two things, we have had it........game over.

BIG OIL (FOSSIL FUEL ENERGY MAFIA) wants us dependent on their centralized energy platform for the next 100 years. The last thing they want is for us to think about and demand a decentralized energy platform that they can’t control.

CENTRALIZED ENERGY = ECONOMIC SLAVERY, DEPENDENCY on the ENERGY MAFIA, more BIG GOVERNMENT (because problems will escalate), ENVIRONMENTAL DESTRUCTION, AND SOCIAL CHAOS

DECENTRALIZED ENERGY = ECONOMIC FREEDOM, LESS GOVERNMENT (because problems will be reduced), CLEAN ENVIRONMENT, AND EMPOWERMENT OF INDIVIDUALS and LOCAL COMMUNITIES

As I write this, the FLAT EARTH ENERGY MAFIA is trying to assassinate reason AND science......trying to confuse the public......trying to keep us under its control for the next 100 years.

Groundbreaking Lawsuit Accuses Big Oil of Conspiracy to Deceive Public About Climate Change

Source: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/3/groun...uses_big_oil_of

Civil Conspiracy Lawsuits Filed Against Climate Change Deniers

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20091206/civi...-change-deniers

What you do about it is up to you.

No doubt: The earth is warming

The British Met Office has released world-wide temperature data into the public domain to give evidence that the globe is warming.

http://en.cop15.dk/news/view+news?newsid=2881

Climate Change Accelerating Beyond Expectations, Say Leading Scientists

New research emphasizes the urgency of large and rapid reductions in global emissions of greenhouse gases, especially carbon dioxide

http://scrippsnews.ucsd.edu/Releases/?releaseID=1033

News Release : CO2 Emissions Continue Significant Climb

http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=7545&t...3506&ct=162

[Orac]

I am not entirely sure about your arguement above JRT as it seems to imply that a reduction in energy consumption, and therefore potentially pollutants/greenhouse gases, has already been significantly acheived through technological development which is still going on. Are you now saying that this problem could go away on its own?

[animatic]

"There is more computing power in my Casio wrist watch than in ENIAC."

I knew one of ENIAC's programmers,

he said the above statement over 19 years ago.

The fossil fuel industry is archaic, outmoded and destined for the scrap heap,

but wants to hang on to ever profit possible before that day comes.

So they put their own propaganda out and pay pols to spout it, in the name of whatever.

So kids, can you say : 'Massive Conflict Of Interest'.

Edited December 13, 2009 by animatic

[JR Texas]

I am not entirely sure about your arguement above JRT as it seems to imply that a reduction in energy consumption, and therefore potentially pollutants/greenhouse gases, has already been significantly acheived through technological development which is still going on. Are you now saying that this problem could go away on its own?

Not really..........CO2 and fossil fuel energy consumption is on the rise. Both will continue to rise as the human population increases. Given that it would be totally inhumane to leave billions of people wallowing in extreme poverty, energy consumption must increase to pull them out of poverty.

Given present fossil fuel technologies, that is, of course, problematic because of the release of CO2.

Many people (e.g., Al Gore) is saying we have all the technologies we need to "solve the global warming problem." He is right, but what I am saying is that if we are going to make a transition from fossil fuels, why not go all the way?

Why not attempt to skip over the transitional energy systems and develop something that will truly improve the quality of life for all and solve our environmental problems. I want to see personal energy systems.........localized........decentralized..........something the Energy Mafia can't control.

You have your own toaster, oven, refrigerator, car, motorcycle, boat, washing machine, computer, etc.........WHY NOT HAVE YOUR OWN ENERGY DEVICE?

If you say we can't do it........we can't do it. I am trying to point out that in the past we often said we can do it..........and did it (e.g., going to the moon). There are many examples. And no doubt we can develop a personal energy system that is safe and environmentally sound, and (important) inexpensive.

We will do this one way or another at some point during the 21st century.........we should do it now.

This will lower the cost of everything.........it will allow us to work less.........it will solve our environmental problems........it will create too many jobs to count.

The supporters of the Energy Mafia will say it will cost us a fortune. What is costing us a fortune is continuing down a destructive path. Acting irresponsibly to future generations is costing us in terms of military spending (1 trillion per year thrown away on that)........it is costing us in terms of environmental pollution and health.......it is setting up a situation that will lead to future generations having to spend, spend and spend some more to address the costly mistakes we are making now.

Here is an idea: Stop all income taxes.......not more taxes on work. Introduce a carbon tax and shift some of our military spending to a global R&D project to develop a personal energy system.

We can do it. You just have to demand it and make sure politicians focus on it (along with population reduction).

[RickBradford]

Persuing JR's posts for anything relevant that has not been spammed 40 times already is akin to spending a day on Smoky Mountain trying to find something saleable.

But this amused me, from a typical wacko Warmist blog.

Skeptics Exaggerating Science Scandal to Derail Copenhagen Climate Talks

That reminds me what Sir John Houghton, first co-chair of the IPCC and lead editor of the first three Reports, said when admitting the IPCC's overtly political agenda

"Unless we announce disasters no one will listen."

That'll teach him.

(Cue another round of tedious repetitive spamming from JR....)