When I Saw Parangs, I Thought Sure Die

[meatgrowler]

Discussing moderator issues in open forum is against the rules. In the future, address your issues to a moderator on duty. I don't know what post was deleted but suspect it had more to do with quoting stick's post than anything to do with what you posted.

Lets get back on topic, instead of discussing this or the meter reader.

I reckon your right sbk....nothing i said was at all bad...!probably for just agreeing with someone that dared to speak his mind!...oh well,still i hope youve noticed that i am still not rising or replying to anything that a certain samuijens has to say about me{comments are water of a ducks back}no flamming..!...im far too cool.....peace to all.......continue the original topic

[LaoPo]

Lao Po, those statistics are also very out of date. 7 years old, in fact.

Yes, I know sbk, but there's nothing else to rely on, but I certainly hope the figure didn't rise in the past 7 years...

LaoPo

[sbk]

Take into account increased population (uncounted illegal immigrants), Thaksin's "war on drugs" and its fall out, and the Southern insurgency and I suspect the rate has risen.

No proof, just a suspicion.

However, I don't know if the violence in Thailand is on the rise or if it is just increased reporting. It feels like its on the rise to both me and my husband, but that isn't based on any known information. Like I said, just a feeling.

[RusticCharm]

There is the TOURIST police and the NORMAL police. The point of having TOURIST police is that they are the contact point for tourists and should be (1) able to speak english, (2) aid tourists, (3) provide assistence if the situation needs to escalate to the NORMAL police

In reality, the Tourist Police are there to 'police' tourists. Anyone who thinks their main purpose is to protect tourists is misguided. Edited May 16, 2007 by RusticCharm

[Briggsy]

If this thread were a footy match, I reckon there would have been about 9 yellow cards and 3 reds!

Re Samui, last time I visited was 1996 and counting. Sorry, you Samui dudes, but the place is just too nasty for me.

[keebone]

There is the TOURIST police and the NORMAL police. The point of having TOURIST police is that they are the contact point for tourists and should be (1) able to speak english, (2) aid tourists, (3) provide assistence if the situation needs to escalate to the NORMAL police

In reality, the Tourist Police are there to 'police' tourists. Anyone who thinks their main purpose is to protect tourists is misguided.

I lifted this from the website of the Chiang Mai Tourist Police.

"Thanks you for visiting Chiangmai Tourist Police. We are the aurthority in charge of your safety. We would like to take this wonderful opportunity to wish you happiness and good health in New Year 2006. We hope you have a pleasant time in Chiangmai Thailand. Additionally, if you have any trouble, we are always available to serve and protect you. If you need assistance please call 1155. "We welcome tourists like they are family and together we provide good service and help the Thai Economy."

Not been to Samui for 10 years but in Pattaya all the police boxes have 'to serve and protect' written on the side of them. I've always felt like adding 'our own interests' underneath.

[Prakanong]

"Not been to Samui for 10 years but in Pattaya all the police boxes have 'to serve and protect' written on the side of them. I've always felt like adding 'our own interests' underneath."

Good one - ROFL

[keebone]

Incidently the official website for the nationwide department of Tourist Police seems to only be available in Thai which seems rather odd seeing as 99% of tourists cannot put a sentence together in Thai let alone read Thai script.

[SamuiJens]

"Not been to Samui for 10 years but in Pattaya all the police boxes have 'to serve and protect' written on the side of them. I've always felt like adding 'our own interests' underneath."

Good one - ROFL

How true it is, Pattaya, I wouldn't live , if it was free! But each to his/her own, as I see it.

[keebone]

"Not been to Samui for 10 years but in Pattaya all the police boxes have 'to serve and protect' written on the side of them. I've always felt like adding 'our own interests' underneath."

Good one - ROFL

How true it is, Pattaya, I wouldn't live , if it was free! But each to his/her own, as I see it.

From what I hear the police/tourist police in Samui are even more self serving and pro-Thai biased than in Pattaya.

[SamuiJens]

"Not been to Samui for 10 years but in Pattaya all the police boxes have 'to serve and protect' written on the side of them. I've always felt like adding 'our own interests' underneath."

Good one - ROFL

How true it is, Pattaya, I wouldn't live , if it was free! But each to his/her own, as I see it.

From what I hear the police/tourist police in Samui are even more self serving and pro-Thai biased than in Pattaya.

Who knows, but I haven't been involved with the Tourist police in Samui, but reading the crime thread of Pattaya, shows me I rather be here, than their! Never have a run in with the police either !

[astral]

Incidently the official website for the nationwide department of Tourist Police seems to only be available in Thai which seems rather odd seeing as 99% of tourists cannot put a sentence together in Thai let alone read Thai script.

Now that really shows commitment to the task.

[BigC]

I am prepared to admit that my earlier uhm 2-bit analysis may be WAY off the mark and that this happens everywhere in Thailand.

But I have lived on Samui for 9 years and this kind of violence (small gangs displaying excessive violence to farangs over trivial issues) is a newish/escalating trend on Samui.

I have back copies of nearly every SamuiCommunity magazine (back to 1999 anyway), SamuiCommunity newspaper and SamuiExpress newspaper which all carry statistics for murders and attempted murders. I would be prepared to spend a few days going through ALL of them and compiling as accurate figures as possible if people feel this is helpful.

When I first arrived here (1999) and had some business trouble, locals and old timer farangs (in Bophut and Chaweng) often told me that in the not too distant past (i.e. early 1990s /1980s) Samui was like "the wild west" with shootouts in the streets, people carrying guns, bodies in the streets not removed for days, and so on. (Boy did I hear some stories!). So I know Thais are on a short-fuse and can be violent. It just strikes me that the nature of the violence ON SAMUI is changing (from Thai v. Thai to Thai v. farang, from business/money issues to more trivial issues, from one on one to gangs).

I FULLY admit I may be WRONG (so please no personal insults).

don't thinkyour pot was too far off the mark. infact it was very close to the mark. forget people slagging off the post. they haven't got any decent point other than expressions like "go back to sinagpore"

The thiory was actually quite close to the mark> i think that there will be MORE internation mafia in the future. the more money on an Island is a perfect mafias play pit. it is the ssame in every built up area in the world from london to Costa del sol. to everywhere. where there is money there attracts trouble and fustration.

i think that alot of people that were born in samui became super rich almost over night. i don;t think that some of them know how to cope with all this money. this is why most problems are building and land related. even problems within families are very common.

[cwilliam]

I over heard some Thai people talking about this case and they were repeating the "loose face" and that the Singaporeans have made someone loose face and thats why they were attacked.

it is not the first time in samui or in Thailand that forigners get into problems because they lack the understanding of the importance of the face. by the reaction of some of the members on this forum they too although living in thailand are probebly not fully understand of how importnat it is.

In Thailand it is very important not to put someone down in the eyes of others.

Very simply in Thailand appearance is everything.

It is important to remember that outside of Bangkok in the rural

areas, people may be poor in wealth but rich in dignity. It is easy to be

deceived by Thais dressed in the latest fashions that their roots are in the

poorest of poor communities and villages. Every Thai from a early age learns

how to show respect and not accidentally damage the face of another.

Understanding all the things that you need to consider is much more than can

be listed here but generally if you observe how Thais treat other Thais you

will get the basics quickly.

Most Thais who work around people from other countries have learned to

accept that many are green when it comes to understanding face. This is more

so the case where people from western countries have not a clue as to how

important it is.

You can think of face as a form of money. Instead of having a $30,000.00

Rolex on your wrist, people in Asia have face. The Rolex tends to be a

financial status showoff on your wrist without words. You or someone had to

dig deep in their wallet for that Rolex to be on your wrist. As loads of

money is not what Thais are best known for, face becomes a commodity. People

can gain or get face by doing positive things for others. The more people

you can affect in a positive way the more face you get. It may be as simple

as giving directions to a stranger, to the type of job you hold. So hold

that thought that face has value like money to Thais.

So now think if someone accidentally caused you to lose money certainly you

would be upset. Depending on how much money you may overlook it or not.

Now if someone was deliberately trying to take your money there is no doubt

you would be upset followed very shortly thereafter by anger. So depending

on your personal self control and how much money you lost you could have a

variety of reactions.

Thais are no different and you can expect the same emotional response.

Generally speaking if you deliberately try to make someone lose face you can

expect retaliation. Some of that retaliation can be very unpleasant on one

end of the spectrum to being sent home in a box at the other end. Keeping in

mind laws and social structure there probably would be very little official

investigation if you experienced bodily harm from a Thai whose face you

harmed deliberately. There is a consideration that if the persons face you

harmed got their face by false pretense you may gain face but that would do

nothing about the retaliation that will be directed at you. So the bottom

line on this is don’t even go there.

the best way to avoid this violence is to be pleasent and avoid confrontation.

I bought a Rolex for 1000 baht,does that give me face?

[SamuiJens]

I over heard some Thai people talking about this case and they were repeating the "loose face" and that the Singaporeans have made someone loose face and thats why they were attacked.

it is not the first time in samui or in Thailand that forigners get into problems because they lack the understanding of the importance of the face. by the reaction of some of the members on this forum they too although living in thailand are probebly not fully understand of how importnat it is.

In Thailand it is very important not to put someone down in the eyes of others.

Very simply in Thailand appearance is everything.

It is important to remember that outside of Bangkok in the rural

areas, people may be poor in wealth but rich in dignity. It is easy to be

deceived by Thais dressed in the latest fashions that their roots are in the

poorest of poor communities and villages. Every Thai from a early age learns

how to show respect and not accidentally damage the face of another.

Understanding all the things that you need to consider is much more than can

be listed here but generally if you observe how Thais treat other Thais you

will get the basics quickly.

Most Thais who work around people from other countries have learned to

accept that many are green when it comes to understanding face. This is more

so the case where people from western countries have not a clue as to how

important it is.

You can think of face as a form of money. Instead of having a $30,000.00

Rolex on your wrist, people in Asia have face. The Rolex tends to be a

financial status showoff on your wrist without words. You or someone had to

dig deep in their wallet for that Rolex to be on your wrist. As loads of

money is not what Thais are best known for, face becomes a commodity. People

can gain or get face by doing positive things for others. The more people

you can affect in a positive way the more face you get. It may be as simple

as giving directions to a stranger, to the type of job you hold. So hold

that thought that face has value like money to Thais.

So now think if someone accidentally caused you to lose money certainly you

would be upset. Depending on how much money you may overlook it or not.

Now if someone was deliberately trying to take your money there is no doubt

you would be upset followed very shortly thereafter by anger. So depending

on your personal self control and how much money you lost you could have a

variety of reactions.

Thais are no different and you can expect the same emotional response.

Generally speaking if you deliberately try to make someone lose face you can

expect retaliation. Some of that retaliation can be very unpleasant on one

end of the spectrum to being sent home in a box at the other end. Keeping in

mind laws and social structure there probably would be very little official

investigation if you experienced bodily harm from a Thai whose face you

harmed deliberately. There is a consideration that if the persons face you

harmed got their face by false pretense you may gain face but that would do

nothing about the retaliation that will be directed at you. So the bottom

line on this is don’t even go there.

the best way to avoid this violence is to be pleasent and avoid confrontation.

I bought a Rolex for 1000 baht,does that give me face?

NO, Thais know if it's fake or not, so you've already lost face

[manuchaomk]

In my opinion

the violence in Thailand is on the rise !!

From southside (thai islamist vs thai !!) to Pattaya & Bangkok suburbs (kloengToey,...).

Koh Samui could be dangerous, but ..... depends on the lifestyle.

I was there last month of march and april for holiday and I that was great time !!

I met lot of people (Thai and Farang) and shared opinion/discussions (with Farang only) during that holiday . Cool and good-feeling !

I saw lot of misunderstoods too....

...90% were 'drunks' or guyz take drugs (thai and Farang) that lose self-control, got angry for any dummy reason !! ....

...and after it could be...easy to get in trouble !

1) respect all the people, be fair

(for ex.: I am not gay, but I respect katoeys)

2) think first, talk second

3) don't lose your self-control

4) drive your motorbike slowly

Manu

[SamuiJens]

Well put Manuchaomk! This is still the Thai's country, NOT the farangs!

[sbk]

2) think first, talk second

3) don't lose your self-control

Good advice anywhere you go.

[manuchaomk]

Hi SamuiJens, hi Sbk

I appreciate you agree.... clever boyzz

cheers

Manu

[LaoPo]

Hi SamuiJens, hi Sbk

I appreciate you agree.... clever boyzz

cheers

Manu

One of the Boyzzzzz is actually a Lady...: 'sbk'.

LaoPo

[RakSamui]

Well put Manuchaomk! This is still the Thai's country, NOT the farangs!

true but Thailand needs farang money, farangs do not need Thaialand. farang is the customer, Thailand has gone the way of expecting us just to hand over the money reguardless. lets not forget the OP was about Thais beating up incocent customers of there number 2 economy earner.taxi's bkk airways, katoeys,robbery, milatary coops, etc etc the goose that laid the golden egg for Thailand has finally been killed. the thais will soon learn about the proverb you never knew how good something was until you loose it. the notian that they can do what they want because it is there country is ok as long as they can be independant of farangs. they cannot and should learn to respect us as much as we respect them.

[SamuiJens]

Well put Manuchaomk! This is still the Thai's country, NOT the farangs!

true but Thailand needs farang money, farangs do not need Thaialand. farang is the customer, Thailand has gone the way of expecting us just to hand over the money reguardless. lets not forget the OP was about Thais beating up incocent customers of there number 2 economy earner.taxi's bkk airways, katoeys,robbery, milatary coops, etc etc the goose that laid the golden egg for Thailand has finally been killed. the thais will soon learn about the proverb you never knew how good something was until you loose it. the notian that they can do what they want because it is there country is ok as long as they can be independant of farangs. they cannot and should learn to respect us as much as we respect them.

Understand you, but seems like few farangs respect them, then it's hard to return real respect, as said it's a 2-way street. Culture problems have made many misunderstandings. Just my view! To me it's treat others as you want to be treated ! There's problems everywhere, and alway will be. Up to know have new had real problems.

Edited June 3, 2007 by SamuiJens

[Shokdee]

About face - many good points, I try respect people but can be a little "hot hearted".

"People can gain or get face by doing positive things for others. The more people

you can affect in a positive way the more face you get. It may be as simple

as giving directions to a stranger, to the type of job you hold. So hold

that thought that face has value like money to Thais."

Then why do Thai people on Samui tend to treat me like dirt? The local chemist doubles the sticker price when I buy from her, the local motorbike repair guy destroys my battery so i have to buy a new one, the neighbour builds his house overlapping onto my land, I ask for something at Tesco and the staff automatically say "don't have" even though I later find the item in the next aisle, and so on...

"face has value like money to Thais." On Samui farang have value like money / farangs have no face value.

[SamuiJens]

Tourist Islands are the place to pay rip-off prices, since most let it happen!

[carnival1200]

Also, as someone pointed out, the general message sent to the tourists that were attacked is IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT AND IT'S YOUR PROBLEM.

Now just to tie it in to a recent typical road death. A poor soul dies because of the dangerous, unlighted, roadworks. Samui Express newspaper tried to follow this up. They went to the police who said NOT OUR PROBLEM go to highways/road works dept. The highways people said NOT OUR PROBLEM go to the contractor doing the repairs. The contractor says, NOT MY PROBLEM, people should look where they're driving! More and more I see this on Samui for any kind of bad situation that happens - IT IS THE VICTIMS FAULT!

And a final point about the roadworks. I always see in the local newspapers people saying, The roadworks have been going on for x (3,5,6..) months now, when is it finished? Well, these roadworks have been going on for over 8 YEARS now! Ever since the last major road widening project in the late 1990's they haven't stopped. If any of you can remember back to the days just after the ringroad and bridges were widened: Show we one stretch of road where the road is BETTER today then it was THEN. So 9 plus years of dangerous roadworks for what? (OK yes for the contractor to cream off the money in a perpetual contract. For the hospitals to cream money in human body repairs). Now I ask, so why do you believe it will be better in 8 more years, let alone 5 or 6 months? The many hospitals make their money from all the road accidents and so there is pressure not to keep the roads in good condition. Seems like they are also happy for the violence to escalate so they can make money from the victims. The whole POLICE / ROADWORKS / HOSPITAL situation is a SHAM.

I agree.

explain to me how this is unique to samui?

it is a rather interesting contrast to the west where you can sue because you didn't realize the starbucks coffee was hot or that a diet of mcdonadlds would make you fat and you can sue and win. Not sure where to draw the line exactly.

that said, it is hardly relavent to the singaproean imbroglio.

as a side note, if i had to listent to singlish for an entire night, i would probably have wanted to pull out my "parang" and "make die sure"

not really, no one deserved what they got, but the story cannot be complete. we are missing something, and i find singaporeans generally quite abrasive and arrogant, though not intentionaly. it is a culture/language thing

I often work in singapore and have never found  Singaporians to be abrasive or agressive - quite the contrary.  

Anyway, what is a Singaporian! They are quite a mix of cultures so your way of the mark with the culture thing.  Could it be something to do with the Shincorp sale - you know, Thais want

their satelite back from those nasty Singaporians.  Remember there was quite a lot of anti - Sinaporian sentiment whipped up by the Junta not so long ago

 

[carnival1200]

TIT This is Thailand.

the govements job bascially is to look after themselves and mess everyone else about at the same time.

they want to force you to kiss thier arse so to speak.

example the electric office.

we have a person come and check our electric every month for 1 year.

yet today when we go to pay the electric at natong. the lady tells us that we have to come back next week because the man cannot find our meter. the same man that has been checking it for a year.

forangs are like oil to arabs. i don;t see many arabs pointlessly thoughing oil away.

then This is thailand.

Hey BigC, maybe (I don't know where you live) but maybe with all the new houses poping up, I get lost too, when I'm going to an address where I haven't been in a few months, so if this is the kind of neigbourhood you live in, cut the guy some slack, if NOT, then tell him he owes you some Baht for the gas/time you wasted, AND don't tell us about on this thread, unless you're going to kill the guy, or did you get the wrong thread??? one Thais mix-up does'nt mean all thais are Ting Tong, probably as many as other nationalitys?

My point is, what has your problem to do with Gangs with Parangs? Not the Goverment, is it?

Are you some kind of Thai appoligist - i bet you wear flip flops !  Ja

[Shokdee]

"Tourist Islands are the place to pay rip-off prices, since most let it happen!"

I agree, but it's the long-term residents that end up paying too! A few days ago wife and I caught the plane from Bangkok (normally don't use Bangkok Airways but we needed to get back quick). Last time I arrived I used airport taxi minibus for B100. Now they wanted 800 or 1000 baht. We declined. Taxi touts offered about the same, lowest was 600 (to Lipa Noi). We declined and started walking down to the ring road intersection to catch a songtaew. Dodging potholes and traffic as best we could. Taxi drivers stopped but lowest was 500 B. We carried on walking. At the T-junction by the pier we paused to catch our breath. A Thai guy come over asked where we going? He gave us a lift right to our house for 100 B. So you can avoid the rip off but it takes hard work and some ingenuity.

Must also mention that at the new Bangkok airport I had a sealed bottle of water and a sealed bottle of green tea in my backpack. As my backpack went through the x-ray scanner the guy checking let off a anguished cry "nam kwart!" (water bottle). The security team then went through my backpack for about 20 minutes examining every little item and eventually confiscating my 2 sealed plastic bottles! Backpack also had umbrella and lighter inside but they gave those back. Is water in a sealed bottle now a security risk? How does one hijack a plane with a bottle of water an a bottle of green tea? Totally senseless.

Edited June 6, 2007 by Shokdee

[SamuiJens]

I do wear flip flops, carnival , Shokdee, there should be signs than ANY liquids have to be in a see threw bag (plastic) cause of terrorist liquid explosives. This law, If I'm not mistaken, is an International flight law now. And agree about taxi,etc. & if all did what you did, they wouldn't have any customers, thus having to lower insane pricing. I walk as well if I can't get a ride for 50-100 Bt. Must be patient with these leaches! Most of them give in when we start walking & ask "how much?" and except 50-100 down the road.

So to all, wait til the crowd thins (have a beer) and if not walk, don't look like you're in a hurry. If you live here, have someone pick you up. If 70% or less do this, it send the message!

Edited June 6, 2007 by SamuiJens

[manuchaomk]

Dear All,

Tourist Island prices can't be the reason of troubles like talked in this topic.

I've been in Singapore (too), Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh, China, bla -bla-bla and I saw a lot of problems/misounterstoods between locals and "farangs"...this means cost of living isn't relevant.

Sure "Samuians" needs to work with farangs (In general-In thailand Europeans tourists are minority compaired to tourists come from China-Japan-Korea-Taiwan) but money can't buy Respect.

If someone feeled that Thai people on Samui tend to treat him/her like dirt...

you can think

"how am I so lucky ?!"¨

"Why say like that ?"

and then you feeling will go up....because the ansers are

because I had a great education and I can pety him/her for ex....

cheers

Manu Krapp

[JimmyCA]

No reason to go to samui ... nothing to offer IMO