7 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

John Peterson, who owns a Wisconsin metal fabrication business, said his company had struggled under Obama and Biden because of heavy federal regulation.

 

"We scrapped and clawed and hung on with everything we had for two years. And then everything changed. Because Donald Trump was elected president. He knew what it was like to build a company and to create jobs for American workers," he said.

 

No comment necessary.

I do not doubt for a moment that business can reduce costs and enhance profits if they do not have to deal with those pesky worker safety protections, demanded rest and eating breaks, Environmental protection measures. A great break not having to deal with fracking endangering the aquifers, oil pollution, air pollution. We don’t need no stinkin government regulation over safe development of vaccines ... that is why the pharmaceutical companies are promoting law excusing them from legal liability of side affects ... damn, that might really cut into profits ...

2 hours ago, fangless said:

This is what WiKi states; The net worth of Donald Trump, the 45th president of the United States, is not publicly known. Various news organizations have attempted to estimate Trump's wealth,,,,,,,,,,,

You are being selective and biased again in your "references/sources"

Everyone knows about his finances because he released his tax forms as he promised. I have been told emphatically that he has kept all his promises ... tongue firmly in cheek ...

21 minutes ago, Logosone said:

The point is that Trump announced a public health emergency 24 hours after the WHO did, he banned flights from and to China two days thereafter, long before most other countries in the world. So Trump showed decisive leadership and action.

 

The sad truth is that even now we do not know if lockdowns really worked, if travel bans work. Yes now the majority view is that travel bans do work, however, at the time many epidemiologists of world reknown like Pete Piot said they make no sense at all which was why the EU did not impose them until much later. We will have to wait for some time to know if even lockdowns worked.

 

My own personal view is that lockdown could have worked if it was put in place early enough, but it looks it was put in place too late everywhere.

 

The US failure on the testing front is the CDC's failure, not Trump's. He has certainly provided enough funding now, America has tested more than most countries in absolute terms. He obviously does not deny the usefulness of testing or else he would not support one of the largest testing programmes in the world.

 

Trump has of course invoked laws to force 3M to make PPE equipment in the US.

 

Where Trump has been wrong about the virus that is not surprising, he is not a scientist, and even the scientists have been wrong time and again.

 

YOu seemed determined to repeat the same points without responding to the flaws in them that I pointed out.

 

As I pointed out announcing a public health emergency is one thing. Actually doing something about it is quite another. Especially when the announcement if followed by over a month of denying that there is a serious problem. Doesn't make much sense.

 

And once again, banning flight between China and the USA would only have made sense if flights were also banned between Europe and the USA. As well as banning domestic flights. Trump waited 40 days to ban flights from Europe. And 44 days to ban flights from the UK and Ireland. Trump's China flight ban was useless.

 

No, Trump hasn't provided enough funding for testing. And the reason the US has to do so many tests now, is because it did too few before. The requirements for number of tests grow exponentially the longer adequate testing is delayed.

 

Your comments about Trump forcing 3M to make PPE equipment in USA false. 3M already manufactured masks. It's a big part of its business. He did attempt to stop 3M from selling masks to Canada. Trump did not order manufacturers to switch to the manufacture of PPE equipment.

 

Yes scientists made mistakes. Science is a Bayesian pursuit. So if your assumptions prove wrong, you change your assumptions. But Trump persists in flogging the same falsehoods long after they have been disproved or, as in the case of claiming that the reason reason people think there is a resurgence of the virus is that more testing is being done. How can someone be so obtuse as to misunderstand what is a matter for math at the level of arithmetic?

49 minutes ago, Logosone said:

No. Says Forbes magazine's experts who routinely estimated the wealth of high profile people.

 

Trump actually said he was worth 5 to 6 billion USD.  Forbes however had great issues in estimating Trump's wealth in the past and clearly have made a special effort to get it right. 

 

Sources quoted in Politico actually stated Trump was worth 7 billion USD.

 

In fact Trump produced a financial statement from one of the big accountancy firms that stated he was worth well over 8.7 billion USD. However Forbes reduced that figure down to 2.1 billion USD.

 

Contrary to expectations being President has actually lost Trump money. Forbes reduced its estimate of Trump's net worth by $125 million following Trump's controversial 2015 remarks about Mexican undocumented immigrants, which ended Trump's business contracts with NBCUniversal, Univision, Macy's, Serta, PVH Corporation, and Perfumania

 

Bloomberg's Billionaire Index largely agrees and has Trump at 2.48 billion USD.

 

 

However, as this article shows, he's rich because of the money he inherited from his father. Actually, the value of his assets increased less than the S&P index, so there was not much added value from his own management.

 

"Donald Trump isn't rich because he's a great investor. He's rich because his dad was rich."

https://www.vox.com/2015/9/2/9248963/donald-trump-index-fund

8 hours ago, Logosone said:

Trump has done exceptionally well with the economy.

 

Polls show that a majority of voters support his performance on the economy. But his approval rating does not match the support for the economy.

 

Obviously the reason is the Covid 19 issue and Trump is being blamed for mishandling it. Even though it was the CDC that did not produce tests on time, and then tests that did not work.

 

 

Now we have Trump supporters in Germany as well

8 hours ago, Logosone said:

Trump has done exceptionally well with the economy.

 

Polls show that a majority of voters support his performance on the economy. But his approval rating does not match the support for the economy.

 

Obviously the reason is the Covid 19 issue and Trump is being blamed for mishandling it. Even though it was the CDC that did not produce tests on time, and then tests that did not work.

 

 

Actually not. His approval ratings were much lower than his approval ratings on the economy long before covid.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

Trump needed the mail in votes to get himself elected, but now is trying to convince people of  mail in votes as fraud. In that case was he fraudulently voted in himself?

 

  How many more lies in this guy capable of?  USA, you really need new more honest leadership. In my opinion anyway.

Geezer

  

10 hours ago, Logosone said:

Forbes magazine estimate Trump's net worth at about US$2.1 billion as of 7 April 2020. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump

 

Maybe you have a problem with maths, but if Trump is now worth 2.1 billion USD it would appear he did not squander his inheritance.

 

Yes, an epic failure that runs the White House and a 2.1 billion USD business empire on the side, lol. I am sure he's obsessed with your secret of success Tug, maybe you could share it with him?

I don’t nessary belive forbes they have an agenda but hey those tax returns trump(shall) turn over will settle the matter huh lol hey I guess if 180,000 dead Americans or a 32% drop in GDP largest drop in employment in history wrecking healthcare and the post office all on his watch is your measure of success you and I see things differenty ehhh think most folks see things as I do as for myself I have a successful 39 year (so far) marriage to my lovely Thai wife the kids are doing great a tidy pension + social security + a few rentals we (she) owns a house in Thailand modest to be sure but we love it thank you very much don’t think trump would be interested not enough strife cruelty corruption and graft 

With the RNC trying to frame Trump as a American (middle class) savior, & its media outlet FOX pumping hard to get the message out. Everything was looking good. Then another police shooting and resulting protests. Can it get any worse?!

 

Yes, yes it can. A Hurricane is bearing down on the Texas/Louisiana coast that has a record breaking storm surge. Meanwhile the wuhan virus lurks and some Unis who did open are now in backlash, paralysis and likely legal trouble, heh (Go Tide!)

 

Bad luck for Donald Trump and his Republican Convention. 

 

  

11 hours ago, rcummings said:

YOu seemed determined to repeat the same points without responding to the flaws in them that I pointed out.

 

As I pointed out announcing a public health emergency is one thing. Actually doing something about it is quite another. Especially when the announcement if followed by over a month of denying that there is a serious problem. Doesn't make much sense.

 

And once again, banning flight between China and the USA would only have made sense if flights were also banned between Europe and the USA. As well as banning domestic flights. Trump waited 40 days to ban flights from Europe. And 44 days to ban flights from the UK and Ireland. Trump's China flight ban was useless.

 

No, Trump hasn't provided enough funding for testing. And the reason the US has to do so many tests now, is because it did too few before. The requirements for number of tests grow exponentially the longer adequate testing is delayed.

 

Your comments about Trump forcing 3M to make PPE equipment in USA false. 3M already manufactured masks. It's a big part of its business. He did attempt to stop 3M from selling masks to Canada. Trump did not order manufacturers to switch to the manufacture of PPE equipment.

 

Yes scientists made mistakes. Science is a Bayesian pursuit. So if your assumptions prove wrong, you change your assumptions. But Trump persists in flogging the same falsehoods long after they have been disproved or, as in the case of claiming that the reason reason people think there is a resurgence of the virus is that more testing is being done. How can someone be so obtuse as to misunderstand what is a matter for math at the level of arithmetic?

It's you of course who is just ignoring the facts.

 

The fact is that Trump did a lot on Covdi19 after declaring a public health emergency 24 hours after the WHO did. Such as suspending flights to and from China two days later. Whether flight bans, lockdowns et al work at all is not fully known at this point, we will have to wait and see if they made a difference. 

 

I'm not even sure if government can take action that makes much difference. I mean look at Sweden which basically did very little, had no mandatory lockdown, no mandatory facemasks, but fared a lot better than the UK, Belgium, Spain and Italy, all of which had mandatory lockdowns. But of course political leaders get blame and credit according to how well the pandemic went, even if they had no real input either way.

 

There certainly is enough money for the US to have one of the largest testing programmes in the world. Yes, it's true that the US did too few tests before. But again that is the fault of the CDC who did not make the tests fast enough, and when they were made they did not work. That has nothing to do with Trump.

 

Your comment on 3M is completely false.  

 

President Donald Trump invoked the Defense Production Act to require 3M to prioritize orders from the federal government.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M

 

And that was in addition to a clandestine government operation to swoop up millions of PPE equipment from other countries, a quasi-criminal project.

 

Trump has done a lot for Americans in relation to Covid19. Above and beyond what most countries have done. In fact on the borderline of legality sometimes.

 

16 hours ago, riclag said:

You got a source claiming he's a idiot

His sister and his niece, apparently also his wife.

11 hours ago, candide said:

However, as this article shows, he's rich because of the money he inherited from his father. Actually, the value of his assets increased less than the S&P index, so there was not much added value from his own management.

 

"Donald Trump isn't rich because he's a great investor. He's rich because his dad was rich."

https://www.vox.com/2015/9/2/9248963/donald-trump-index-fund

That article is out of date, it's from 2016. Forbes do not estimate the net worth at that figure now.

 

The point is whether Trump got 1 million, 40 million or 400 million, he is now worth in the region of 2.1 billion US$, both Forbes and Bloomberg Billionaire Index agree. Since Trump did not put the money into an S&P linked index fund but rather obtained his 2.1 billion US$ through his own work most reasonable people would agree he has done extremely well for himself, and multiplied his inheritance many times over out of his own work, not an index-linked fund.

 

Of course if it turns out Trump is worth 8.7 billion US$ as one of his financial statements from a top accountancy firm showed, then he would have outperformed the S&P index many times over. Whatever it is, clearly Trump has done a lot better for himself than anyone posting bile against him on TVF.

 

The reality is though that Trump's net worth fluctuates a lot, because it is tied to real estate and shares, which go up and down in value a bit. Still, he is one of the richtest politicians due to work and not a career politician.

14 hours ago, Logosone said:

Forbes magazine estimate Trump's net worth at about US$2.1 billion as of 7 April 2020. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump

 

Maybe you have a problem with maths, but if Trump is now worth 2.1 billion USD it would appear he did not squander his inheritance.

 

Yes, an epic failure that runs the White House and a 2.1 billion USD business empire on the side, lol. I am sure he's obsessed with your secret of success Tug, maybe you could share it with him?

He runs his business on the side? It is supposed to be in a blind trust, but instead trump said his sons would run the company and not him.

 

so another lie?

11 hours ago, rcummings said:

His approval ratings were much lower than his approval ratings on the economy long before covid.

That's because his approval ratings on the economy were at an unprecedented and record high.

 

In November 2018 65% of respondents said the economy was either excellent or good. Absolutely stellar marks on the economy for the President at the time, Donald Trump. Of course since then the figures have fallen mainly due to the virus.

 

Whether these approval ratings matter is another question. Arguable they don't, because all that matters will be the election result. And if voters have to choose between a war-mongering, spineless career politician and a pretend Lil' Wayne, and Donald Trump, even with the Covid 19 issue, which disproportionately affected Blacks and Latinos who'd have voted Democrat anyway, not so much rural businessmen who are the core of Trump's voter base, it would not be a major surprise if Trump wins yet again.

3 hours ago, Tug said:

I don’t nessary belive forbes they have an agenda but hey those tax returns trump(shall) turn over will settle the matter huh lol hey I guess if 180,000 dead Americans or a 32% drop in GDP largest drop in employment in history wrecking healthcare and the post office all on his watch is your measure of success you and I see things differenty ehhh think most folks see things as I do as for myself I have a successful 39 year (so far) marriage to my lovely Thai wife the kids are doing great a tidy pension + social security + a few rentals we (she) owns a house in Thailand modest to be sure but we love it thank you very much don’t think trump would be interested not enough strife cruelty corruption and graft 

Well both Forbes and Bloomberg's Billionaire Index agree Trump is worth over 2 billion USD.

 

To blame Trump for the deaths from a virus, to blame the drop in GDP caused by an unprecdented virus on Trump is so preposterous nobody would take it seriously apart from rabid anti-Trumpers.

 

So you claim social security. Yet attack the achievements of a man who made 2.1 billion USD and became president of the USA as well. Okay.

22 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

 Lowest Black unemployment rate (before the Chinese Communist virus) in the history of the United States. 

Yes... leadership. 

 

MAGA 

I can't be bothered reading through 20 pages of nonsense from the anti-Trump members here who have yet to recover from their 2016 loss, but if I was a Democrat, I would be very concerned right now. The RNC is absolutely destroying them. It brought out some possible great candidates for 2024. Nikki Haley was amazing, as was Tim Scott.

18 hours ago, riclag said:

You got a source claiming he's a idiot

LOL......don't want to take up the whole thread so how about a few instances to prove it:-

 

Covfefe, Yo-Semites, Injecting Disinfectant, UV light inside the body, Finland part of Russia, China no border with India, And the most idiotic and damning of them all........."don't worry it is like the flu, we have it under control and it will go away shortly", which has resulted in the deaths of over 170,000 Americans.

 

He is worse than an idiot, he is an idiot who doesn't know he is!

19 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

That's a new conspiracy theory.  Never heard it before.  Post your sources or retract as fake conspiracy news.  Let's talk facts and not imaginative BS.

You want a source that Trump has been trying to curb immigration in every way possible since he took office? How about just doing a google of "trump immigration". 

 

Some examples:
 

- Declared a national emergency and then deployed troops to the southern border in a crisis of his imagination. Illegal immigration had been on the decline for years before he took office. 
- Has used the wall as a motivator for his base the entire time. He continues to tout the building of the wall despite only 5 miles of new wall having been built in his four years in office. 
- The ban on 8 muslim majority countries, which was his compromise after suggesting he would call for a complete ban muslims from entering the country during the election. The fact that he made up a lie that thousands of muslims were cheering in the streets after 9/11 and that he saw it with his own eyes was used as evidence of his bias in court. 
- Reduced refugee admissions to the lowest level since the resettlement program was created... 40 years ago. The refugee program dropped from 85k refugees in 2016 to 30,000 last year, and a planned 18,000 this year. That 18,000 number was given BEFORE covid. 
- Cancelled DACA and left them in limbo for years.
- Ended protected status for Haiti, Nicaraguan, Sudan nationals, and threatened to do the same to Honduras and El Salvador. 

- His cruel family separation policies have been condemned around the world including by the U.N..
- He asked immigration officials to close the border and promised them a pardon if they got in trouble. 
- He proposed rolling back birthright citizenship. 
- The RAISE act attempted to cut levels of LEGAL immigration by 50% and would have also put a cap on the number of refugee admissions to 50k per year. 
- New asylum restrictions on asylum claims based on violence.
- Has spoken many times about wanting to end chain migration, despite his wives' family being an obvious example of it.

- His comments on S-hole countries are further evidence of how he feels about immigrants, long a part of the American Dream that was sold to us as children. Trump and Fox have attempted to rewrite that and paint immigrants as rapists and murderers.

 

On April 22nd he signed an execute order significantly reducing the amount of green card immigrants. It's speculation that Covid gave him the cover to do what he's been trying to do the whole time. But it's a reasonable assumption based on similar policies and excuses he's made in the past and the similar justifications which he has given for each of them.

 

 

Edited August 27, 20205 yr by jcsmith

And yet he parades a few immigrants getting their citizenship for the rnc.

 

problem is they forgot to tell the recipients that trump would be there and that it would be part of the rnc.

 

dodgy don does it again.

1 hour ago, JensenZ said:

I can't be bothered reading through 20 pages of nonsense from the anti-Trump members here who have yet to recover from their 2016 loss, but if I was a Democrat, I would be very concerned right now. The RNC is absolutely destroying them. It brought out some possible great candidates for 2024. Nikki Haley was amazing, as was Tim Scott.

Doubt concern but rather elated that the RNC has generated lesser viewership than the DNC and speeches are for the only audience Trump with very little policies mentioned. Viewers are tired of all these self gloating praises and the parade of family members. Also little time were spent to talk about the current malaise and concern of the general public like the pandemic, huge unemployment, civil unrest and the forth coming hurricane. Nikki Haley has been the bright spark but she will carry the baggage of being a fervent supporter of Trump and his foreign policies. 

On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 1:20 PM, Boon Mee said:

 Lowest Black unemployment rate (before the Chinese Communist virus) in the history of the United States. 

Yes... leadership. 

 

MAGA 

The Trump virus is the cause of the bad economy.

On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 3:56 PM, Logosone said:

Indeed, nothing to do with "lack of leadership" at all. Actually Trump showed great leadership in closing down flights long before most other countries did. However Trump alone can not fight the virus. That is down to scientists, and unfortunately the scientists at the CDC failed miserably. They produced tests too late, and when they did, they didn't work. It's normal that leaders get blamed for these things, same happened in the UK to Boris Johnson, and conversely leaders get credit when the Covid response worked, see Germany and New Zealand.

 

However, in terms of the economy Trump did very well indeed, and most voters acknowledge this. That would normally suffice to get him re-elected, but with this Covid19 issue he has an extra hurdle to jump, that's clear.

He declared the decease a Democratic hoax, then said it would be gone by April.

Illegal actions of the government:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mike-pompeo-faces-investigation-following-brazen-rnc-speech/ar-BB18ocY8?ocid=spartandhp

 

4 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Illegal actions of the government:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mike-pompeo-faces-investigation-following-brazen-rnc-speech/ar-BB18ocY8?ocid=spartandhp

 

Another swamp creature.

23 hours ago, riclag said:

You got a source claiming he's a idiot

Straight from the horses mouth

 

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Edited August 27, 20205 yr by kwonitoy

The convention is the trumpian echo chamber it was predicted to be. 

 

Nothing to see here, move along. 

Never forget that Donald Trump murdered more Americans than Osama Bin Laden on 9/11!!

Where was Trump when New York suffered a deluge of European-virus 19??

Why didn’t Trump close the schools or the subways?

Why didn’t Trump stop hospitals from sending European-virus19 infected patients to nursing homes??

Why didn’t Trump tell NYers to stop doing normal things and to start social distancing?

Why didn’t Trump send European-virus19 infected patients to the hospital ship, habitats center or the newly built temporary hospital in brooklyn??

Where was Trump when New York needed over 40,000 ventilators but Trump only sent in 35,000!

Where was Trump when New York needed over 5 million PPE but trump only sent in 3.5 million??

 

The blood is on Trumps hands only! The real heroes are Joe Biden who warned us about it, Cuomo who defeated the virus and protected the elderly from Trump and De Blasio who valiantly stood up to lawlessness, anarchy, racism, prejudice and racial xenophobia!

A post and replies has been removed, if you want your post to remain up please use correct names for political parties and politicians, thank you.

While it is true that the unemployment numbers were great all you have to do is to take a look at this chart to instantly see that it continued on the same trajectory as it was under Obama. 

 

Obama inherited the financial crisis and a 10% unemployment rate, and by the end of his term the U.S. was more or less at full employment at 4.7%. But you wouldn't know that if you watched Fox who had endless clips of Trump making ridiculous claims like unemployment was really as high as 42% under Obama. Then of course when he got his first job report he basically laughed it off and said now they are correct. Basically admitting that he was just making it up. But he's still doing the same thing 4 years later.

And here's GDP growth data from the Worldbank.

That awful pitfall is what Obama inherited.  So where exactly is this big Trump bump? That chart doesn't include post-covid data. I thought he was saving us from Obama's terrible policies ruining the economy?

EDIT: This post was in response to a post by ipocketHUCK where he made the claims referenced here. That post has been deleted it looks like but that is what I was referencing on the unemployment and economy numbers.

Edited August 27, 20205 yr by jcsmith

37 minutes ago, kwonitoy said:

Straight from the horses mouth

 

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Dont sell him short. He knew the difference between a camel and an elephant.