4 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

John Peterson, who owns a Wisconsin metal fabrication business, said his company had struggled under Obama and Biden because of heavy federal regulation.

 

"We scrapped and clawed and hung on with everything we had for two years. And then everything changed. Because Donald Trump was elected president. He knew what it was like to build a company and to create jobs for American workers," he said.

 

No comment necessary.

A small comment for you.

 

quote "We scrapped and clawed and hung on with everything we had for two years. And then everything changed. Because Donald Trump was elected president. He knew what it was like to build a company and to create jobs for American workers," he said."

 

 

And just how many companies did Trump bankrupt in the USA?

 

https://www.thoughtco.com/donald-trump-business-bankruptcies-4152019

 

6 Corporate Bankruptcies
Trump has filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy for his companies six times. Three of the casino bankruptcies came during the recession of the early 1990s and the Gulf War, both of which contributed to hard times in Atlantic City, New Jersey's gambling facilities.

He also entered a Manhattan hotel and two casino holding companies into bankruptcy.

 

 

7 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

trump......leadership???

I still struggle to understand how any sane person can proudly say that trump is great for everything. How do they manage to aim a  real weapon at someone when, obviously, they have one of their hands firmly grasping their self abuse weapon? Please clarify this perplexing issue for me. Surely there are enough "trump tropical terrorists" in Thailand to advise we mortals to tell us why they love him and just attack we lefties without any facts?

3 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Rex Tillerson, former secretary of state, actually called him a <deleted> moron. 

Ah yes, Mr Invisible Secretary of State with the shortest tenure of any Secretary of State, fired by Trump. An objective judgement no doubt.

 

Daniel W. Drezner of the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University was highly critical of Tillerson, calling him an "unmitigated disaster", and "the most incompetent Secretary of State in modern history.

 

Elliot Cohen of Johns Hopkins University said that Tillerson might be one of the weakest Secretaries of State in American history.

 

Elizabeth Saunders of George Washington University said that Tillerson's tenure had damaged the State Department "for a generation" and decreased America's ability to respond to major crisis.

 

So maybe not the best guy to throw stones.

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

No. Trump declared a public health emergency on 31 January, which was 24 hours after the WHO itself declared the outbreak a public health emergency of international concern. That was the same day Italy declared a health emergency and suspended all flights to and from China. Italy suspended China flights long before any other EU country, however, the US suspended China flights only 2 days later. Which was quite foresighted and good leadership, since the US at that time had nowhere near the number of cases Italy did. 

 

I of course never said the USA was the first to close its borders, typical leftist misrepresentation, if you read the post carefully I said the USA was one of the first countries to close down air travel with China, and that was indeed the case. Sadly it was still not early enough and cases did spread in the US, as indeed was the case in Italy as well.

 

However, politicians will act based on scientists' advice. The fault here, lies with the scientists.

 

You can certainly not blame the White House for the CDC's terrible failures in producing test kits and then test kits that worked. That was one of the main reasons the virus spread so easily in the US. And that was the CDC's fault.

 

As for blaming Trump for the deaths caused by a virus, which has strangely killed millions outside the US as well, that is frankly preposterous and can hardly be taken seriously.

 

The totally false statement that Trump's poll numbers on the economy are in decline is again simply purposeful misstatement of reality:

 

Why Trump’s Approval Ratings on the Economy Remain Durable

 

Yet polling data and interviews with voters and political analysts suggest that a confluence of factors is raising Mr. Trump’s standing on the economy issue, which remains a centerpiece of his pitch for a second term. 

 

Polling suggests that Americans who form Mr. Trump’s voter base are less likely to have lost a job or income than Democratic or independent voters. That divergence is partially driven by race — the coronavirus crisis has disproportionately harmed Black and Latino workers, who lean heavily Democratic — but may also reflect regional divides. Small business owners in small, more rural states that backed Mr. Trump in the 2016 election report less economic damage from the crisis than those in larger blue states, according to an analysis of census survey data by the Economic Innovation Group in Washington.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/24/us/politics/trump-economy.html

 

Now it is of course true that Trump's approval rating for handling of the economy came down from a record-breaking and unprecedented 60% just prior to the virus but to say it has fallen, well, yes from an absolute record high level maybe to a still very good level that is higher than the one enjoyed by Obama, Bush and Biden.

Declaring a public emergency is one thing. Actually doing something about the emergency is something else. Trump may have declared an emergency but he continualy denied there was one until early March.

It's clear the Trump's ban on air travel from China was entirely political. Were it not political, but based on sound epidemiological reasons, then he would also have banned air travel from Europe and domestic air travel as well. Instead he waited 40 days to ban travel from continental Europe. What's more he even waited an additional 4 days to ban traffic from the UK and Ireland. (You know anyone who has golf resorts in those 2 countries?)

He refused to institute a national testing program or invoke the Defense Act to command industries to manufacture PPE gear.

Even to this date he continues to claim that there was no resurgence in virus infections even though positivity rates climbed as did deaths. Instead he still claims it is an illusion based on higher testing rates. The same Trump supporters who question Biden's mental competence think nothing of this massive failure of intellect on Trump's part.

1 hour ago, riclag said:

You got a source claiming he's a idiot

how about his mouth?

34 minutes ago, Logosone said:

That's why he's worth 2.1 billion USD

According to him only I believe.

Do you have a reliable source, to prove it, apart from Trump or his acolytes, that is?

 

PS;  Maybe a tax return or two could help substantiate the claim(s)!

Edited August 26, 20205 yr by fangless

10 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Ah yes, Mr Invisible Secretary of State with the shortest tenure of any Secretary of State, fired by Trump. An objective judgement no doubt.

 

Daniel W. Drezner of the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University was highly critical of Tillerson, calling him an "unmitigated disaster", and "the most incompetent Secretary of State in modern history.

 

Elliot Cohen of Johns Hopkins University said that Tillerson might be one of the weakest Secretaries of State in American history.

 

Elizabeth Saunders of George Washington University said that Tillerson's tenure had damaged the State Department "for a generation" and decreased America's ability to respond to major crisis.

 

So maybe not the best guy to throw stones.

But the way he damaged it was in alignment with Trump's policy of weakening the State Dept. Trump had no quarrel with Tillerson until Tillerson got fed up with Trump and let it be known.

21 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Ah yes, Mr Invisible Secretary of State with the shortest tenure of any Secretary of State, fired by Trump. An objective judgement no doubt.

 

Daniel W. Drezner of the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University was highly critical of Tillerson, calling him an "unmitigated disaster", and "the most incompetent Secretary of State in modern history.

 

Elliot Cohen of Johns Hopkins University said that Tillerson might be one of the weakest Secretaries of State in American history.

 

Elizabeth Saunders of George Washington University said that Tillerson's tenure had damaged the State Department "for a generation" and decreased America's ability to respond to major crisis.

 

So maybe not the best guy to throw stones.

All that may be true, but Riclag asked for a source as to who called Trump an idiot and I provided one. And I’m pretty sure Tillerson wasn’t the only one in the WH who called Trump an idiot, moron, or worse. 

14 minutes ago, rcummings said:

Declaring a public emergency is one thing. Actually doing something about the emergency is something else. Trump may have declared an emergency but he continualy denied there was one until early March.

It's clear the Trump's ban on air travel from China was entirely political. Were it not political, but based on sound epidemiological reasons, then he would also have banned air travel from Europe and domestic air travel as well. Instead he waited 40 days to ban travel from continental Europe. What's more he even waited an additional 4 days to ban traffic from the UK and Ireland. (You know anyone who has golf resorts in those 2 countries?)

He refused to institute a national testing program or invoke the Defense Act to command industries to manufacture PPE gear.

Even to this date he continues to claim that there was no resurgence in virus infections even though positivity rates climbed as did deaths. Instead he still claims it is an illusion based on higher testing rates. The same Trump supporters who question Biden's mental competence think nothing of this massive failure of intellect on Trump's part.

Well Trump did ban flights from China two days after declaring the public health emergency. Which was a lot earlier than most EU countries, barring Italy, I remember flights from China still arriving in Germany long after Trump banned them in the US.

 

I seem to remember at the time the WHO and many, many epidemiologists, including the world reknown Pete Piot, were saying that closing borders and suspending flights would be completely pointless. How times have changed.

 

In fact in addition to the China flight ban additional travel restrictions were placed on foreign nationals who had traveled within the past 14 days in certain countries, with exceptions for families and residents. Americans returning from those regions underwent health screenings and a 14-day quarantine.

 

Meanwhile New Orleans celebrated the Mardi Gras on 25 February. But sure, it's all Trump's fault. Sure.

 

And how could Trump institute a national testing programme? That was the job of the CDC, who were struggling with even producing test kits. And when they did they did not work. So not much Trump could do there.

 

As for PPE gear Trump set up a clandestine programme of government employees who literally stole millions of PPE units from other countries. He went above and beyond what is even legal to get PPE for the US.

 

Of course Trump has said some things about the virus that turned out to be false, most people have because the facts about the virus were like shifting sand. Remember the expert at Imperial College Neil Ferguson first predicted 510,000 dead in the UK, who now still have 41500. So if even the experts got it wrong, you can hardly expect non scientists to get it right all the time.

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Remember the expert at Imperial College Neil Ferguson first predicted 510,000 dead in the UK,

You do like to quote discredited people don't you.

How about quoting the majority/respected opinions rather than your rose tinted/one sided/biased self serving so called sources.

Edited August 26, 20205 yr by fangless

41 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Sure, Trump is an idiot. That's why he's worth 2.1 billion USD and is the President of the United States of America, whilst you watch his videos on Youtube.

No body really knows what he’s worth and he got 400 million from daddy and squandered that lol the dudes a new York conn man everything he touches dies heck he’s even got the us mint so screwed up I can’t get change anymore you can’t even buy quarters at the bank not to mention wrecking the post office and healthcare no sir he’s an epic failure here in America it feels like the country has fallen off a cliff and that’s just the structural stuff we haven’t even started on the unity and race relations foreign affairs no sir his whole convention is an epic ass kissing session sprinkled with lots of misinformation and out right lies don’t be a mark vote him out!

8 minutes ago, Tug said:

No body really knows what he’s worth and he got 400 million from daddy and squandered that lol the dudes a new York conn man everything he touches dies heck he’s even got the us mint so screwed up I can’t get change anymore you can’t even buy quarters at the bank not to mention wrecking the post office and healthcare no sir he’s an epic failure here in America it feels like the country has fallen off a cliff and that’s just the structural stuff we haven’t even started on the unity and race relations foreign affairs no sir his whole convention is an epic ass kissing session sprinkled with lots of misinformation and out right lies don’t be a mark vote him out!

Forbes magazine estimate Trump's net worth at about US$2.1 billion as of 7 April 2020. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump

 

Maybe you have a problem with maths, but if Trump is now worth 2.1 billion USD it would appear he did not squander his inheritance.

 

Yes, an epic failure that runs the White House and a 2.1 billion USD business empire on the side, lol. I am sure he's obsessed with your secret of success Tug, maybe you could share it with him?

36 minutes ago, rcummings said:

But the way he damaged it was in alignment with Trump's policy of weakening the State Dept. Trump had no quarrel with Tillerson until Tillerson got fed up with Trump and let it be known.

Yes, calling your boss a moron publicly is the kind of thing a, well, moron might do. 

 

Did not exactly work out so great for Tillerson, did it? But by then he was universally derided for his performance already anyway, perhaps he just wanted out.

2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Forbes magazine estimate Trump's net worth at about US$2.1 billion as of 7 April 2020. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump

 

Maybe you have a problem with maths, but if Trump is now worth 2.1 billion USD it would appear he did not squander his inheritance.

 

Yes, an epic failure that runs the White House and a 2.1 billion USD business empire on the side, lol. I am sure he's obsessed with your secret of success Tug, maybe you could share it with him?

This is what WiKi states; The net worth of Donald Trump, the 45th president of the United States, is not publicly known. Various news organizations have attempted to estimate Trump's wealth,,,,,,,,,,,

You are being selective and biased again in your "references/sources"

Edited August 26, 20205 yr by fangless

20 minutes ago, fangless said:

You do like to quote discredited people don't you.

How about quoting the majority/respected opinions rather than your rose tinted/one sided/biased self serving so called sources.

I don't like quoting Ferguson at all, and you're right he is totally discredited. Now. But at the time he of course was the majority respected opinion. That's the point, the majority respected opinion was often wrong about the virus, so were many experts.

2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

I don't like quoting Ferguson at all, and you're right he is totally discredited. Now. But at the time he of course was the majority respected opinion. That's the point, the majority respected opinion was often wrong about the virus, so were many experts.

On this point I agree but why quote him in isolation?  I believe that to be seen to be balanced you should have stated that the "Now discredited .....  said (such and such).

Trump is not and idiot, he is an idiot savant! His one extraordinary ability is making things up. Only joking!!

I am not a Trump fan, but let's be fair to him. He is, as are all leaders of democratic countries, damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

When the books are tallied up at the end of his term, that would be a good time to judge his performance as president of the USA. 

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

Sure, Trump is an idiot. That's why he's worth 2.1 billion USD and is the President of the United States of America, whilst you watch his videos on Youtube.

Have you seen his tax returns ?

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

Sure, Trump is an idiot. That's why he's worth 2.1 billion USD and is the President of the United States of America, whilst you watch his videos on Youtube.

You don't know what he's worth as he strangely enough refuses to publish his tax returns. And if I had been given all the millions he got when very young I'd be worth at least as however much he's worth today, and I wouldn't have gone bankrupt 7 times while stiffing countless little guys in the process.

And he's proven without any shadow of a doubt that a complete moron can become the president of the US. All it takes are enough 'like minded" voters.

13 minutes ago, oompie69 said:

His one extraordinary ability is making things up. Only joking!!

He is supposed to be the President of the USA and "Leeder of the free world", not a contestant on a comedy show or an after dinner speaker!

PS He sucks at both and as POTUS!

Edited August 26, 20205 yr by fangless

4 minutes ago, fangless said:

He is supposed to be the President of the USA and "Leeder of the free world", not a contestant on a comedy show or an after dinner speaker!

As he cannot string a coherent sentence together even if his life depended on it an after dinner speaker would be the second to last thing he should do. The very last thing is of course being president of the US.

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

That's why he's worth 2.1 billion USD

Says Trump. And you, apparently. Trump's lawyers have been fighting tooth and nail for years now, though, to keep his financial records buried. And not to make too fine a point of it, but Trump filed for bankruptcy five or six times and conned thousands (tens of thousands?) of small investors and small businesses out of millions and millions of dollars that way. Getting rich that way is not exactly something to be very proud of, in my opinion.

9 hours ago, webfact said:

Republicans tout Trump's leadership on economy

555

47 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Forbes magazine estimate Trump's net worth at about US$2.1 billion as of 7 April 2020. 

 

Estimate...  There is a reason why he still didn't show his tax records. I estimate that he has only debts.

 

 

Inflammatory post reported and removed.   Please use the proper names of the political parties and politicians. 

 

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

Well Trump did ban flights from China two days after declaring the public health emergency. Which was a lot earlier than most EU countries, barring Italy, I remember flights from China still arriving in Germany long after Trump banned them in the US.

 

I seem to remember at the time the WHO and many, many epidemiologists, including the world reknown Pete Piot, were saying that closing borders and suspending flights would be completely pointless. How times have changed.

 

In fact in addition to the China flight ban additional travel restrictions were placed on foreign nationals who had traveled within the past 14 days in certain countries, with exceptions for families and residents. Americans returning from those regions underwent health screenings and a 14-day quarantine.

 

Meanwhile New Orleans celebrated the Mardi Gras on 25 February. But sure, it's all Trump's fault. Sure.

 

And how could Trump institute a national testing programme? That was the job of the CDC, who were struggling with even producing test kits. And when they did they did not work. So not much Trump could do there.

 

As for PPE gear Trump set up a clandestine programme of government employees who literally stole millions of PPE units from other countries. He went above and beyond what is even legal to get PPE for the US.

 

Of course Trump has said some things about the virus that turned out to be false, most people have because the facts about the virus were like shifting sand. Remember the expert at Imperial College Neil Ferguson first predicted 510,000 dead in the UK, who now still have 41500. So if even the experts got it wrong, you can hardly expect non scientists to get it right all the time.

 

The fact remains that his termination of air traffic with China made no sense if it wasn't accompanied by similar termination of air travel with Europe and internally in the USA. Just a political stunt.

And the CDC failure to come up with a test kit is one thing. The failure of Trump to providen funding for and coordination of national testing is quite another. To this day, he's done virtually nothing about that. In fact he denies the usefulness of testing.

As for his program of stealing PPE equipment of abroad. Whatever you may think of that, it wasn't nearly enough and doesn't excuse his dereliction of duty to invoke the defense act and get american manufacturers to make the stuff.

What experts were saying was based on their understanding at the time. What Trump was saying was based on nothing but his desire to wish the pandemic away. And why are you putting it in the past tense? Trump is still saying that there isn't a resurgence of the virus. It's just an artefact of increased testing. How obtuse or deranged does someone have to be to persist in spouting such an obvious falsehood? Were ICU's overflowing with patients not evidence enough?

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

Forbes magazine estimate Trump's net worth at about US$2.1 billion as of 7 April 2020. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump

 

Maybe you have a problem with maths, but if Trump is now worth 2.1 billion USD it would appear he did not squander his inheritance.

 

Yes, an epic failure that runs the White House and a 2.1 billion USD business empire on the side, lol. I am sure he's obsessed with your secret of success Tug, maybe you could share it with him?

He got bailed out of bankruptcies by his very wealthy Daddy.  As someone once said of George W. Bush, he was born on third base and thinks he hit a home run.

41 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Says Trump. And you, apparently. Trump's lawyers have been fighting tooth and nail for years now, though, to keep his financial records buried. And not to make too fine a point of it, but Trump filed for bankruptcy five or six times and conned thousands (tens of thousands?) of small investors and small businesses out of millions and millions of dollars that way. Getting rich that way is not exactly something to be very proud of, in my opinion.

No. Says Forbes magazine's experts who routinely estimated the wealth of high profile people.

 

Trump actually said he was worth 5 to 6 billion USD.  Forbes however had great issues in estimating Trump's wealth in the past and clearly have made a special effort to get it right. 

 

Sources quoted in Politico actually stated Trump was worth 7 billion USD.

 

In fact Trump produced a financial statement from one of the big accountancy firms that stated he was worth well over 8.7 billion USD. However Forbes reduced that figure down to 2.1 billion USD.

 

Contrary to expectations being President has actually lost Trump money. Forbes reduced its estimate of Trump's net worth by $125 million following Trump's controversial 2015 remarks about Mexican undocumented immigrants, which ended Trump's business contracts with NBCUniversal, Univision, Macy's, Serta, PVH Corporation, and Perfumania

 

Bloomberg's Billionaire Index largely agrees and has Trump at 2.48 billion USD.

 

 

10 minutes ago, rcummings said:

The fact remains that his termination of air traffic with China made no sense if it wasn't accompanied by similar termination of air travel with Europe and internally in the USA. Just a political stunt.

And the CDC failure to come up with a test kit is one thing. The failure of Trump to providen funding for and coordination of national testing is quite another. To this day, he's done virtually nothing about that. In fact he denies the usefulness of testing.

As for his program of stealing PPE equipment of abroad. Whatever you may think of that, it wasn't nearly enough and doesn't excuse his dereliction of duty to invoke the defense act and get american manufacturers to make the stuff.

What experts were saying was based on their understanding at the time. What Trump was saying was based on nothing but his desire to wish the pandemic away. And why are you putting it in the past tense? Trump is still saying that there isn't a resurgence of the virus. It's just an artefact of increased testing. How obtuse or deranged does someone have to be to persist in spouting such an obvious falsehood? Were ICU's overflowing with patients not evidence enough?

The point is that Trump announced a public health emergency 24 hours after the WHO did, he banned flights from and to China two days thereafter, long before most other countries in the world. So Trump showed decisive leadership and action.

 

The sad truth is that even now we do not know if lockdowns really worked, if travel bans work. Yes now the majority view is that travel bans do work, however, at the time many epidemiologists of world reknown like Pete Piot said they make no sense at all which was why the EU did not impose them until much later. We will have to wait for some time to know if even lockdowns worked.

 

My own personal view is that lockdown could have worked if it was put in place early enough, but it looks it was put in place too late everywhere.

 

The US failure on the testing front is the CDC's failure, not Trump's. He has certainly provided enough funding now, America has tested more than most countries in absolute terms. He obviously does not deny the usefulness of testing or else he would not support one of the largest testing programmes in the world.

 

Trump has of course invoked laws to force 3M to make PPE equipment in the US.

 

Where Trump has been wrong about the virus that is not surprising, he is not a scientist, and even the scientists have been wrong time and again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

From most of the analytical opinions of  financiers and economists who have evaluated the economic history of the US is that  the initiatives made during the Obama tenure  to offset the  massive deficits of the  Bush  Jnr. era were creating a significant real economic upturn prior to Trump being made President.

Trump took credit for that by virtue of the ongoing results and  stamped his name on it until due,to  his outrageous alienation of both political and trade  global partners had a reversal effect, and already duped  by his Corporate masters resorted to accommodating anything and everything  to sustain a false perception of  economic security and thereby his  personal  self acclaim. The  Covid-19  debacle has  rendered that void to a large degree but  in ongoing further despair Trump  has  removed  a huge  amount  of protections and  safeguards  for the overall  US population in favour of his control  cronies 

IMO  his public deceit is no less than his personal deceit and I will be  astounded  if he  achieves a second  term  by way of a honest election.

A sad reality is that  even he  is  not the true  democratic  processes  of undoing his  damage  will not  be as instantaneous. The resurgence of an unfinished  Civil War that Trump has rekindled  will not be to the advantage of anyone.