Honda Cbr150

[KRS1]

Even if you are in the right...you are in the wrong, and liable for any repairs, personal injury payments etc.

Let's not block up this cbr thread, so shall just say that this isn't true, based on the experiences of friends of mine.

So can anyone compare the DBS and Endurance exhausts? In terms of loudness.

And does having the DB killer fitted affect the performance?

Thanks.

stock exhaust is best, stick with it.

[thomo]

stock exhaust is best, stick with it.

I've heard this from one or two others. Without much else said.

Also read that stock weighs 10kg, with the aftermarkets versions weighing around 3?

Also doesn't having a wider downpipe make it breath a bit easier?

I don't really know, so if you can expand on why the stock is best for performance, it'd be informative to know why.

Cheers.

[thaicbr]

Endurance is LOUD. DB with the db killer is slightly less loud. I have a complete downpipe and endurance end can (ally) for 1,500b if any one is interested.

ps not recommended for Pattaya or BKK.

And Krs1 you still haven't said why the original is best?

Edited July 12, 2010 by thaicbr

[thomo]

Thanks, I'll leave it if it's that loud.

Did you notice a marginal difference in performance compared to the stock?

Edited July 12, 2010 by thomo

[thaicbr]

Yes. I think that with a downpipe and muffler it does rev more freely and slightly higher. <BR>The main reason the endurance muffler is loud is that the filler material is put in loose if a bike shop refilled it. it would be quieter:D Also it is a tiny can, no weight at all

Edited July 12, 2010 by thaicbr

[thomo]

Coolio. Cheers.

[katabeachbum]

What is/was the price for a new 2010 CBR 150?<BR>

[thaicbr]

What is/was the price for a new 2010 CBR 150?<BR>

63,000b But now not available.

Edited July 13, 2010 by thaicbr

[ThaiMouse]

What is/was the price for a new 2010 CBR 150?<BR>

I am afraid it is only second hand ones available now. Check the phuket gazette classified for a good buys, I think four or five going for sale at present?

[kaphi]

What do you guys use for storage on short trips (e.g. magnetic bags on the tank, top bins, dry bags strapped on the back seat)? Do you find that's enough for a weekend trip to the beach?

I just have a dislike for riding with a backpack and am wondering what alternatives there are with the CBR150.

[ThaiMouse]

What do you guys use for storage on short trips (e.g. magnetic bags on the tank, top bins, dry bags strapped on the back seat)? Do you find that's enough for a weekend trip to the beach?

I just have a dislike for riding with a backpack and am wondering what alternatives there are with the CBR150.

Hi Have a lockable GIVI Box mounted on the rear carry rack. It does not look nice, but do want to look good or have a bike you can use and have storage space as well ?

Go for the box.

[marcusb]

is there a good tank bag for the cbr that i can order easily? Has anyone put a trunk box on and how bad does it look? Little hard to go away for a couple days with a passenger. Thanks

marcu

[KRS1]

Endurance is LOUD. DB with the db killer is slightly less loud. I have a complete downpipe and endurance end can (ally) for 1,500b if any one is interested.

ps not recommended for Pattaya or BKK.

And Krs1 you still haven't said why the original is best?

It is because those who know, know it is.

and no, the stock exhaust is not too restricted.

[thomo]

It is because those who know, know it is.

That doesn't answer the question why do you think the stock is best.

I believe a bigger downpipe helps it breath better.

That the aftermarket mufflers are less than half the weight, and also help it breath better.

I don't know, is this wrong? Can't you tell us why the stock is better?

[KRS1]

Why do you think there's a breathing problem in the first place?

Just remember that the both the intake and exhaust tracts which begin at the valves are designed for certain velocities.

[canuckamuck]

Why do you think there's a breathing problem in the first place?

Just remember that the both the intake and exhaust tracts which begin at the valves are designed for certain velocities.

An engine is an air pump, the more you can get through it the more power created. this is very basic knowledge.

Larger exhaust tubes = more air through. Explain how the smaller pipes can be seen as superior.

Edited July 18, 2010 by canuckamuck

[thomo]

Why do you think there's a breathing problem in the first place?

I don't. I believe an after-market exhaust improves performance.

Why do you think the stock exhaust is best?

[oMega69]

My Bike is for sale now . , send me PM if interested.... bike located in Pattaya .,

[troehr]

Why do you think there's a breathing problem in the first place?

Just remember that the both the intake and exhaust tracts which begin at the valves are designed for certain velocities.

Motorcycles are designed at the factory to give all around performance with good reliability for a reasonable cost. They are not delivered to have the best handling possible, the most power that is possible, the best fuel milage possible. They are a compromise to give a reliable all around performance. If you want something different you have to make changes. If you want more power you can do things like change exhausts and work on the intakes. It does not mean the original parts were bad. It just means they are not the best. That is why there is a thing called the aftermarket.

T

[KRS1]

Why do you think there's a breathing problem in the first place?

Just remember that the both the intake and exhaust tracts which begin at the valves are designed for certain velocities.

An engine is an air pump, the more you can get through it the more power created. this is very basic knowledge.

Larger exhaust tubes = more air through. Explain how the smaller pipes can be seen as superior.

So how do you know the stock exhaust is restrictive?

Can you prove that its not already at the maximum size for best stock performance?

To create power you need more air coming in, not just out.

How is increasing the size of the exhaust going to allow more air to enter the combustion chamber?

All these aftermarket exhaust in Thailand do are allow the bike to rev up faster, but you aren't seeing any gains in power or speed unless you make additional modifications. Your simply making less power at higher RPM's.

Did you realize the exhaust valves in the cbr 150 are smaller than the intake valves? Honda must have done this for a reason or else they would have made them bigger if they wanted the exhaust to flow faster.

You want more power, buy a bigger carburetor like the NSR 28mm Keihin and jet it to 118/35. This carb can be bored out to a maximum of 31-32mm, you want more air this is it.

...and keep the original exhaust, because you aren't anywhere near the maximum velocity.

[thaicbr]

"All these aftermarket exhaust in Thailand do are allow the bike to rev up faster,"

Krs1.......Why does this happen, Surely it implies that the smaller down pipe is at least a little restrictive.The internal Diameter is fairly small.

You believe that a larger down pipe does not improve the bike. OK others believe it does improve. personally i find a faster revving bike means its easier to hold the revs when you change gear also in respect to my old cbr150 i found that it would pull higher revs all through the gear range.

But hey its a forum where free thought is encouraged.So IF you can provide proof that what you say is true we will believe it.

BUT i do agree that for performance tuning then a larger carb is required, By the way how did you determine that 118/35 jet sizes where optimum. Also what other changes were made to the bike. Airflter, cams or larger valves etc

[KRS1]

Whats the point in riding at higher RPM's if you have less power? Revving faster doesn't necessarily mean you have more power, the gains you claim to have were purely psychological. Louder doesn't mean faster.

Can you provide prove that the stock exhaust is too restrictive? its a two way road.

Regarding the NSR carb, I've installed these carbs on many different variations. From all stock, to 177cc stroked and cammed with 1mm extra lift, polished ports - and 118/35 always comes out on top for aggressive street driving, 120/35 or 118/38 if you insist on using an aftermarket pipe and don't want to blow the piston. However for stronger lowend move down to a 110-112 on a stock pipe and low end is much stronger but will shake when entering mid band, and if you ever cracked one of these bikes open you'd see that you can't fit larger valves, you can on the sonic though.

I have a stock head i just built up last night if you want a pic.

Here's a question, which one goes on first, the valve seal or the valve retainer?

Edited July 20, 2010 by KRS1

[BigBikeBKK]

For you guys who are debating performance modifications on the CBR150 the only way you'll know for sure is to test the bikes on a Dyno. Dirtshop charges only 600 Baht for a dyno run so rather than guess what mod does what why not head down there and find out for sure. Like somebody said, without figures and facts you're really just guessing. Ride On! Tony

[thaicbr]

Whats the point in riding at higher RPM's if you have less power? Revving faster doesn't necessarily mean you have more power, the gains you claim to have were purely psychological. Louder doesn't mean faster.

Can you provide proof that the stock exhaust is too restrictive? its a two way road.

Regarding the NSR carb, I've installed these carbs on many different variations. From all stock, to 177cc stroked and cammed with 1mm extra lift, polished ports - and 118/35 always comes out on top for aggressive street driving, 120/35 or 118/38 if you insist on using an aftermarket pipe and don't want to blow the piston. However for stronger lowend move down to a 110-112 on a stock pipe and low end is much stronger but will shake when entering mid band, and if you ever cracked one of these bikes open you'd see that you can't fit larger valves, you can on the sonic though.

I have a stock head i just built up last night if you want a pic.

Here's a question, which one goes on first, the valve seal or the valve retainer?

So again you are evading questions. How do you know there is less power? YOU stated that the stock exhaust is better than an after market one. WHY is it better, I'm presuming that you haven't done any Dyno runs on any of the different variations you have built . Mate i have NEVER rebuilt a Cbr150 engine. However. I really do find it hard to believe that 118/35 is optimum for such a wide range of engine mods. I know the Sonic has a two valve head and the Cbr a 4 valve and most if not all engines have larger inlet valves than exhaust valves. I'm not deriding your skills i'm just asking how you can be so sure. And go against the general tuning rules that engineers the world over follow.

aseanmoto does a 170cc big bore kit including a reworked head with this spec. Bigger valves i believe.

Bore 66 x Stroke 49.2 mm.

-Valve IN 26 Valve EX 22

"How is increasing the size of the exhaust going to allow more air to enter the combustion chamber?"

Well one way is that the exhaust gases are escaping quicker because of the larger bore so freeing up space for more (air pump).That may be why it revs quicker. Also did you know that the downpipe for the cbr150 is the same as the one for the euro cbr125.

Tony... Dyno run for 600b what a bargain!

Krs1.Tell ya what if you have a stock cbr150 available lets try it. I will pay for the 2 runs on the Dyno and supply the exhaust (an endurance unit). You supply the bike. Hows that sound?

In reality it would need a few more runs to get the jetting correct for optimum performance. But it should be ok straight from the box.

Edited July 20, 2010 by thaicbr

[T_Dog]

I exchange my oversize pipe and stock pipe regularly as the welds break on the new pipe, and it "feels" that the over sized pipe gives me better mid-range performance in the mountains. I seem to shift less often when two-up. But... like Lord Kelvin said: "If you can not express the worth of your work in numbers, it is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind." The dyno results would be great to see.

I think Canuck has it right though. Superchargers and turbo's help get more combustion gases into the cylinder. Tuned pipes, headers, and over-sized exhausts help get the exhaust gasses out of the cylinder, as do over sized valves.

[BigBikeBKK]

... like Lord Kelvin said: "If you can not express the worth of your work in numbers, it is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind."

Brilliant quote!

[thomo]

Krs1.Tell ya what if you have a stock cbr150 available lets try it. I will pay for the 2 runs on the Dyno and supply the exhaust (an endurance unit). You supply the bike. Hows that sound?

I have a stock CBR, and would be happy to under go any of these experiments.

I live in BKK and am available on Sundays. Or maybe weekday evenings.

[KRS1]

<br>

<br>Whats the point in riding at higher RPM's if you have less power? Revving faster doesn't necessarily mean you have more power, the gains you claim to have were purely psychological. Louder doesn't mean faster.<br><br>Can you provide proof that the stock exhaust is too restrictive? its a two way road.<br><br>Regarding the NSR carb, I've installed these carbs on many different variations. From all stock, to 177cc stroked and cammed with 1mm extra lift, polished ports - and 118/35 always comes out on top for aggressive street driving, 120/35 or 118/38 if you insist on using an aftermarket pipe and don't want to blow the piston. However for stronger lowend move down to a 110-112 on a stock pipe and low end is much stronger but will shake when entering mid band, and if you ever cracked one of these bikes open you'd see that you can't fit larger valves, you can on the sonic though.<br><br>I have a stock head i just built up last night if you want a pic.<br><br>Here's a question, which one goes on first, the valve seal or the valve retainer?<br>

<br><br>So again you are evading questions. How do you know there is less power? YOU stated that the stock exhaust is better than an after market one. WHY is it better, I'm presuming that you haven't done any Dyno runs on any of the different variations you have built . Mate i have NEVER rebuilt a Cbr150 engine. However. I really do find it hard to believe that 118/35 is <u>optimum</u> for such a wide range of engine mods. I know the Sonic has a two valve head and the Cbr a 4 valve and most if not all engines have larger inlet valves than exhaust valves. I'm not deriding your skills i'm just asking how you can be so sure. And go against the general tuning rules that engineers the world over follow.<br><br> aseanmoto does a 170cc big bore kit including a reworked head with this spec. Bigger valves i believe.<br><div align="center">           <div align="center">Bore 66  x Stroke 49.2 mm. </div>         </div>                       <div align="center">-Valve IN 26 Valve EX 22<br><br><div align="left">"How is increasing the size of the exhaust going to allow more air to enter the combustion chamber?"<br><br>Well one way is that the exhaust gases are escaping quicker because of the larger bore so freeing up space for more (air pump).That may be why it revs quicker. Also did you know that the downpipe for the cbr150 is the same as the one for the euro cbr125.<br><br>Tony... Dyno run for 600b what a bargain! <br><br>Krs1.Tell ya what if you have a <u>stock</u> cbr150 available lets try it. I will pay for the 2 runs on the Dyno and supply the exhaust (an endurance unit). You supply the bike. Hows that sound? <br>In reality it would need a few more runs to get the jetting correct for optimum performance. But it should be ok straight from the box.<br></div></div><br>

I know there's less power because i just have to get on and ride it, all my friends have to do is get on and ride, and all my friends grandmother has to do is get on and ride it. Simple.

If that's not enough for you i have quarter miles times that can prove it. But then again you would have to be there and see it to believe it.So that's how i know, and i'm not evading anything.

You are however evading the question of how you know stock is restricted?

What tuning rules are you talking about that engineers follow the world over? If all rules were followed by every engineer in the world. it doesn't seem like there would ever be any type of advancement, and we'd never move forward. It is however the pioneering of certain individuals who break free from the norms and do whats not expected of them that DO advance humanity into the future.

I know you'd find it hard to believe 118/35 is best, just like you find it hard to believe that the stock exhaust is best, for a simple reason and that's because you've never experimented, if you did you'd know first had what the results are.. I have an idea - try it, instead of just talking about it, you'll find that you don't need a dyno at all, it still perplexes me to this day why so many people are so quick to jump on the dyno bandwagon. When there are so many things that dyno correction factors just don't take into consideration. Simple

The downpipe for the CBR 150 and the CBR 125 are NOT the same they use the same outside casing and thats it, after the catalytic converter which is inside the downpipe, which contributes to back pressure, which this bike needs... there is an inner pipe, the inner pipe on the Thai CBR150 is 6 inches longer than a euro spec CBR 125. The Euro spec CBR 125's are actually sonic engines with slightly different magnetic flywheels and timing, the sonic engine GAINS from a bigger exhaust BUT the Thai CBR 150 does not. This is simply because there are two valves opposed to one and the rate of exhaust flow is much faster than the sonic. This is why you literally have to tame the CBR 150's exhaust by controlling the back pressure.

The exhaust gases that are being freed on the exhaust stroke is the same for both exhaust, as can be determined by TDC (top dead center) just at different rates, unless the aftermarket pipe magically extends the stroke on the exhaust stroke, the same amount of exhaust will be moved because its dictated by stroke length.

An imbalance to the other cycles however will be introduced, unless you compensate on the intake side. This imbalance is what causes you to have less power at higher RPM'S. Imagine a string of clay, you pull it slow it'll get quite a bit longer. BUT if you pull it too fast its going to rip almost immediately. By introducing a faster exhaust rate and not preparing the intake side the air string on intake isn't going to be as dense, this is why there's a loss of torque, unless you compensate.

Aseanmotos claim of bigger valves is bogus, you'd have to widen the valve seats as well as the ex/in ports, and when that happens you WILL have head gasket leaks, I can fit bigger valves on the CBR 150 no problem, I can go up about 2mm in size for each one.

But there's no point in doing it if you cant widen the valve seats. If you'd like gasket leaks every 1k Kilos, go right ahead and do it.

Here's an interesting piece of info for you, the stock valve seats are double bevels, while replacement valve seats are single bevels. What this means is that the shims will have to be almost twice the original height, because the valve will sit lower in the chamber. - another reason why stock is best.

to answer my previous question to you, the valve seal goes on first.

next question, how many screws hold on the top of the stock carburetor, and how many screws need to be removed in order to remove the needle?

I'm in Chiang Mai or else i'd gladly take you out for some quarter mile runs and maybe even a beer.

Edited July 21, 2010 by KRS1

[Richard-BKK]

Not want to disrupt a good discussion, but the Honda CBR150R replacement will be on the Thai market in September. Nope its not a 150cc.

[Tigersachsclub]

Richard, although this is a good development from aphonda ( well, it is kind of filling in the holes they recently made from removing cbr & phantom) we are getting new bikes to choose from and as we are all still waiting for the VTR250 i have to say, i believe it when i see it & actually being available here in Thailand.

Hope you meant the release of the new Honda in September 2010 or is it planned for 2011?

happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox