Farmers call for reconsideration of chemical ban

[Matzzon]

3 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Glyphosate is an Herbicide  Not a Pesticide if used as you said there wouldn't be a crop left in the Paddock.

Glyphosate is a non-selective herbicide, meaning it will kill most plants. It prevents the plants from making certain proteins that are needed for plant growth. Glyphosate stops a specific enzyme pathway, the shikimic acid pathway. The shikimic acid pathway is necessary for plants and some microorganisms.

Yep, there you see how bad and dangerous it is to the ecological system.

[Matzzon]

31 minutes ago, bodga said:

neither are motor  cars, i bet more  have died from those though, no need for the "stupid comment"  just because we  have opposing views. Paraquat is safe when used correctly......just  like motor vehicles.

No it´s not!

[bodga]

12 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

No it´s not!

yes it is!

[bodga]

31 minutes ago, djayz said:

I know, you're 100% right. 

Reap what you sow. 

I dont sow anything I use paraquat for controlling weeds I am only referring to paraquat in this topic  not other chemicals  which I have no use for. I also use thousand of tons of stone chippings over soil to control weeds  but s till need some weedkiller, I have probably spent more than 150k baht on stone chippings 6  inches thick.

Edited August 30, 2020 by bodga

[Grumpy John]

The facts of life are:

1/  Don't buy fresh or frozen food from China if your totally against chemicals on the farm.

 

2/ Farm labour is limited because everyone needs workers at the same time...and the kids don't want to do farm work...ever!

 

3/ There are many organic fresh food supply places in Bangkok.  There are lists on the web of all/most shops.

 

4/ Robblok is probably a nice fellow off the forum.

 

5/ Make reasonable priced alternatives to the allegedly bad chemicals and we will happily use them.

 

6/ Now we are just waiting for Matzzon to come up with the name and price of one!

[robblok]

1 hour ago, digger70 said:

Glyphosate is an Herbicide  Not a Pesticide if used as you said there wouldn't be a crop left in the Paddock.

Glyphosate is a non-selective herbicide, meaning it will kill most plants. It prevents the plants from making certain proteins that are needed for plant growth. Glyphosate stops a specific enzyme pathway, the shikimic acid pathway. The shikimic acid pathway is necessary for plants and some microorganisms.

 

You could be right but its one of the ones they ban. Its one of the ones they want back and its also the one that is causes cancer. I have far less a problem with paraquat. (as it does not get in the food)

 

My apologizes but for me they are all the same used in farming and get in the food (as shown by the tests in supermarkets). Its shameful what farmers do. All those defending the use should read those articles about the contents of chemicals in vegetables. It clearly shows how bad the farmers are and that there is too much in them.

 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Grumpy John said:

The facts of life are:

1/  Don't buy fresh or frozen food from China if your totally against chemicals on the farm.

 

2/ Farm labour is limited because everyone needs workers at the same time...and the kids don't want to do farm work...ever!

 

3/ There are many organic fresh food supply places in Bangkok.  There are lists on the web of all/most shops.

 

4/ Robblok is probably a nice fellow off the forum.

 

5/ Make reasonable priced alternatives to the allegedly bad chemicals and we will happily use them.

 

6/ Now we are just waiting for Matzzon to come up with the name and price of one!

Still does not excuse you and I dont think your a nice person at all given your statements about females. Then your statements about how you on this topic where you care more about money then anything else.

 

Facts of life are, Thai veggies have far too much chemicals in them each and every test they do (that lands in the newspaper shows this). If you havent seen them then your blind. So something had to be done as farmers cant be trusted.

 

There is no alternative needed because if your costs go up they go up for everyone. So everyone will ask more for their product or go bust. Everyone has the same problem so the playing field is level.

 

Fact is too that in Europe where these things are banned food production did not go down. So they can do it you self proclaimed farm experts should be able to do so too. 

 

I am always willing to pay more for this so the cost argument is just zero. 

 

Comming back to farm labor, rise prices and people will work. I have worked on farms (hence i know what kind of people farmers are always complaining). The farmers that paid best got the most workers. We all hated the work (except a few) but if the reward was sufficient we still came back. Its a matter of money. If i could choose to work as a guard or some other not heavy job and it pays the same as toiling int he farm I would not. So pay better. 

 

Again it all comes down to money, pay enough and charge customers more or go for large scale farming with machinese. 

 

You were complaining about farming techniques of 200 years ago it seems your using them. Only big farms will survive as they can use machines. This is happening all over the world also where I am from smaller farmers die bigger ones survive. It happens in business too. So its natural. 

[robblok]

The thing that I don't get is that people like Grumpy John and other farmers are saying they need an equal priced chemical. Why do farmers feel that they have a right to complain in this. When the minivans were installed with GPS the owners could not stop that either. They had to take the cost too and or charge their customers.

 

That is how it goes when a government changes things business have a bit higher cost and let then charge their customers. This is how it goes in ALL businesses when government changes rules and regulation. 

 

Why should it be different for farmers ?

[bodga]

37 minutes ago, robblok said:

I am always willing to pay more for this so the cost argument is just zero. 

but thats just YOU many others arent  willing

[bodga]

23 minutes ago, robblok said:

When the minivans were installed with GPS the owners could not stop that either.

and it  achieved absolutely  nothing for safety at  all, still see them driving like idiots too close too fast

[bodga]

42 minutes ago, robblok said:

rise prices and people will work

Not true, I have tried up to  600 baht a  day, still wont do it. When you have some experience you would  soon be very disappointed in people and their  not wanting to do manual farm work. I can get renderers"chap"  workers for  less than that and that's way more  skilled

Edited August 31, 2020 by bodga

[digger70]

4 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Ok, then it´s like with everything else. Things change, times change and work change. Just maybe farming should be on a professional level instead of something that each and every family is doing just to have rice for the year. Just maybe people have to realize that they have to do something else. Like getting an education and things like that.........

Farming Is an Profession, Schooled Farming Like my Dad and I Had .

Learning about everything that has to do with farming .From Fertilizing/Manure/Tilling /growing /controlled spraying/harvesting /Marketing. 

Here in Thailand there's not much of that Yet.

  if all the people get an education for something else than Farming and do something else than there will be no one to farm.

Don't forget No Farms No Food

[digger70]

4 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Yep, there you see how bad and dangerous it is to the ecological system.

No you got it Wrong its Biodegradable. But what would I know. You're The Expert

[digger70]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

You could be right but its one of the ones they ban. Its one of the ones they want back and its also the one that is causes cancer. I have far less a problem with paraquat. (as it does not get in the food)

Paraquat is an Quick actingHerbicide . Glyphosate is an Slow acting Herbicide. 

Paraquat is a quartenary nitrogen herbicide widely used for broadleaf weed control. It is a quick acting, non-selective compound, that destroys green plant tissue on contact and by translocation within the plant.

[Matzzon]

18 minutes ago, digger70 said:

No you got it Wrong its Biodegradable. But what would I know. You're The Expert

Yes, of course! It´s nothing wrong with it. They just put it on a list as banned substance, because they felt like it and had nothing better to do.

 

Do you hear how stupid that sounds? I do not care if it´s bio-what and bio-this or eco-fine. Out of what I understand, it is something that is not so good.

[Matzzon]

28 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Farming Is an Profession, Schooled Farming Like my Dad and I Had .

Learning about everything that has to do with farming .From Fertilizing/Manure/Tilling /growing /controlled spraying/harvesting /Marketing. 

Here in Thailand there's not much of that Yet.

  if all the people get an education for something else than Farming and do something else than there will be no one to farm.

Don't forget No Farms No Food

Stop! There is enough knowledge here, and enough professional farmers as well adequate farming techniques. What you are trying with is just showing off your schooling and put yourself on a higher place than the Thai farmer.

never said all should end farming. Please do not twist my words, for your own personal ego-rush gain.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Matzzon

[Matzzon]

4 hours ago, bodga said:

yes it is!

????????

[digger70]

4 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Yes, of course! It´s nothing wrong with it. They just put it on a list as banned substance, because they felt like it and had nothing better to do.

 

Do you hear how stupid that sounds? I do not care if it´s bio-what and bio-this or eco-fine. Out of what I understand, it is something that is not so good.

Cars / Machines /Electrical power plants  /Factories  All of those aren't so good for the Health of the people , They All Kill people By some kind of Pollution.

They Haven't Banned them Did they? More people get Killed by the Byproducts of the Industries than the odd one from a Chemical that some people Misuse .

For instance just look at the Misuse of Cars 24/7 By all the Not so Bright people in the World ,Thailand is good at it. 

 Say No more,  Thank you for you're interest in the Topic.

[Matzzon]

22 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Cars / Machines /Electrical power plants  /Factories  All of those aren't so good for the Health of the people , They All Kill people By some kind of Pollution.

They Haven't Banned them Did they? More people get Killed by the Byproducts of the Industries than the odd one from a Chemical that some people Misuse .

For instance just look at the Misuse of Cars 24/7 By all the Not so Bright people in the World ,Thailand is good at it. 

 Say No more,  Thank you for you're interest in the Topic.

But of course you needed to derail the topic and include other things to compare. This is about the banned farming chemicals. They are not good to use, final!

I have never said that it´s good with other pollution, have I? Why are you trying to implicate that?

On the other hand I am using my electric car as much as possible, just because I wish to contribute to a better world.

Not like you. Complain when they take away dangerous and poisonous chemicals, just because the are more of them in use. If everyone was thinking like that, nothing would ever change for the better.

So, now you can retire from the conversation instead. Everything you will reply with from this point is only going to drag you deeper in the bottomless hole of stupidity.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Matzzon

[digger70]

5 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Stop! There is enough knowledge here, and enough professional farmers as well adequate farming techniques. What you are trying with is just showing off your schooling and put yourself on a higher place than the Thai farmer.

never said all should end farming. Please do not twist my words, for your own personal ego-rush gain.

You're full of it I am trying to help the Thai farmer for a change by Defending their Spaying with Chemicals .

You just trying to twist you're Own words to make an argument .

[farmerjo]

I personally would like to see paraquat back on the shelves.

Need to do some spray topping on pasture.

And haven't seen the alternative yet.

  

Edited August 31, 2020 by farmerjo

[digger70]

18 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

On the other hand I am using my electric car as much as possible, just because I wish to contribute to a better world.

Electricity made from Dirty Fuel    ????????         

[Matzzon]

2 minutes ago, digger70 said:

You're full of it I am trying to help the Thai farmer for a change by Defending their Spaying with Chemicals .

You just trying to twist you're Own words to make an argument .

No you not get to close anything! You ain´t in power of that. If you can´t hack it in an open forum, just stay away instead.

You are the one that are bringing things in to the conversation by comparing with other bad things. Never posted that they are good, but this thread is about two dangerous things that are luckily not allowed to be used in farming no more. Keep to the topic. 

[Matzzon]

4 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Electricity made from Dirty Fuel    ????????         

Yeah, I don´t like that either, because of the possibility to use wind, water and bio-fuel as well as sun-powered electricity today. I promise you that I will chose a wise choice for electricity to use when the Thai system is offering choices in that area. Yet they do not do that. In farming you have a choice to not use dangerous chemicals. That´s different.

By the way, I have 50% solar powered my house and are very happy with that.

 

Keep your word that you already spread 2 time now, and stay closed.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Matzzon

[Dap]

On 8/30/2020 at 1:02 PM, Burma Bill said:

 

 

Absolutely perfect image 

[robblok]

21 hours ago, digger70 said:

Paraquat is an Quick actingHerbicide . Glyphosate is an Slow acting Herbicide. 

Paraquat is a quartenary nitrogen herbicide widely used for broadleaf weed control. It is a quick acting, non-selective compound, that destroys green plant tissue on contact and by translocation within the plant.

Nice to know but research shos that Paraquat is relatively safe (not for user) but Glyphosate causes cancer and gets in the foods. So that is all what is important for me. That real scientist figured out what is dangerous and make these decisions not farmers who are bias. 

 

But humor me have you read the test results ever from how much pesticides herbicides are found in the stuff on Thai markerts and supermarkets. The fact that the majority of stuff is way over the levels should tell you enough that change is needed. This has been ongoing for years and so farmers dont change unless things are banned.

 

Quote

Pesticide watchdog Thai-PAN has published its most recent survey, which reveals that 41% of all vegetables in Thailand’s fresh markets are contaminated with chemical pesticides to a level that exceeds internationally acceptable standards. 12 types of banned chemicals were also discovered.

 

https://royalcoastreview.com/2019/06/unacceptable-chemical-pesticide-levels-found-in-thailands-fresh-markets/#:~:text=Pesticide watchdog Thai-PAN has,Ms.

 

This clearly shows how low farmers regard the health of others and the need for bans and huge fines on breaking the ban and more checks. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by robblok

[digger70]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Nice to know but research shos that Paraquat is relatively safe (not for user) but Glyphosate causes cancer and gets in the foods. So that is all what is important for me. That real scientist figured out what is dangerous and make these decisions not farmers who are bias. 

 

But humor me have you read the test results ever from how much pesticides herbicides are found in the stuff on Thai markerts and supermarkets. The fact that the majority of stuff is way over the levels should tell you enough that change is needed. This has been ongoing for years and so farmers dont change unless things are banned.

 

 

https://royalcoastreview.com/2019/06/unacceptable-chemical-pesticide-levels-found-in-thailands-fresh-markets/#:~:text=Pesticide watchdog Thai-PAN has,Ms.

 

This clearly shows how low farmers regard the health of others and the need for bans and huge fines on breaking the ban and more checks. 

So if you look at it ,It's the Farmers that Stuff it up ,,,,, Not the Chemicals. 

That's a Hard nut to crack.

Maybe they should do the tests on the Farms and set a standard that's Safe for the consumers .

If the Farmer does go Over that set Standard Destroy his Crop.

That soon teach them if they can't sell their produce .

[robblok]

9 hours ago, digger70 said:

So if you look at it ,It's the Farmers that Stuff it up ,,,,, Not the Chemicals. 

That's a Hard nut to crack.

Maybe they should do the tests on the Farms and set a standard that's Safe for the consumers .

If the Farmer does go Over that set Standard Destroy his Crop.

That soon teach them if they can't sell their produce .

We all seen how it worked with the Pattaya beach chairs only a total ban worked. Same goes for chemicals the dangerous ones should not be allowed. Paraquat I have no problem with, as farmers can only kill themselves with it.

 

But this just shows how totally irresponsible farmers are, plus it shows that checks are failing and even if stock is too high in  its chemical contents the farmer is not punished. They should track what farmer did it and fine him. These kind of things are totally unacceptable and yet still farmers moan like little children.