Phuket Immigration says help coming for expats caught in permit-to-stay crisis

[GeilGeilertzen]

53 minutes ago, hugh2121 said:

Hi Crusader, it's not a case of struggling to place the 800k but it's a large chunk of dead money. Dead because it earns next to nothing and cannot be put to work earning a decent return. e.g. my investment portfolio has made a net profit of 20% so far this year to date. The 800k in the bank has not kept pace with inflation.

The earns next to nothing for you is not completely true. It earns you a great deal the day your life in thai is stuck in some big problems that struck you like a lightning. 
And for the Thai goverment it serves the same purpose just from their views. 
 

So exactly please tell me what does a foreigner with 10.000 bath in his Thai bank and with no money in his home country do when ending up in some big problems in Thai and with let’s say a debt of 500.000 bath? 

How do you as a thai or a foreigner being the right one to a 500.000 bath claim move forward against a 10.000 bath foreigner to get your money quickly. It can be a car that was yours he wrecked as he caused a situation in traffic. A car that you need in your daily work to get by. Or your 10 year old daughter he ran down after having 10 beers of alchohol?
You please explain how you or a thai court will move forward to solve such problems with a penniless foreigner and often with no or an invalid insurance? 

Edited September 2, 2020 by GeilGeilertzen
Spelling

[GeilGeilertzen]

I

16 minutes ago, JUAinBKK said:

I want to understand better why you make this comment; please entertain me with answers to a few questions.  Do you earn any profit for allowing this money to sit ideal, and is the profit greater than 7-12%?  How many years have you had the account with the 800k THB sitting, and how long in each bank?  Thanks and I anxiously await your response.

You can read my post before. It’s also a side of the reasons explained. I ve seen enough problems and bad stuff done by foreigners.   I am not in any way saying Bad foreigners  are worse Than bad Thais. 
But all these rules are basically made up based judicial and legal laws stopping at the Thai border when a foreigners is running alway and to have some safety measurements for stopping illegal work activity. 

Edited September 2, 2020 by GeilGeilertzen

[jerolamo]

I find it very suspicious of a government that has imposed itself three times in an anti-democratic way (and which arrived via a coup d'etat) to sideline a foreign population that is from a great help for its economy, for its schools (a country whose level of education is very low, if not among the one being one of the lowest in the world), and whose culture is democracy, under the pretext of '' a virus which no longer has the initial lethal power at all and which kills more than 100 times less than those injured on their way and which, in all of human history, is by far one of the most common epidemics less fatal in all of human history (however, I note that the other countries, for the most part, have also panicked to the point of worsening the social situation).

It is also very strange that officials communicate by showing that they are not able to tell the difference between a tourist and an expatriate, and that they no longer even recognize the value of family. There should be a minimum of consistency.

And I am not talking only about a gap in xenophobic language that is historic and unworthy of its own diplomatic rank which terribly taints its own country.
Where have the principles and respect gone? There has been a huge change in the space of a few years, which is very disturbing. And this is not lost on any agency whose job it is precisely to observe this kind of disturbing deviance. Is it an inspiration taken elsewhere, by wanting to copy a charismatic and angry leader of a very large country, very friendly with Thailand, and who has never ceased to insult people?

I also find it strange that one makes an announcement about one's own intentions when in action one does exactly the opposite, and this, every week, without exception. By force it becomes more than painful and restrictive, it becomes arousing.

There is obviously something else, which has nothing to do with COVID-19, which is happening in Thailand, and which puts that country on the list of politically unstable countries. Which, again, will not help their international affairs and de facto, its economy.

Obviously, I don't understand what is going on, but I can only wait and imagine the best and worst case scenarios to come under such confusing circumstances.

[jerolamo]

1 hour ago, GeilGeilertzen said:

I

You can read my post before. It’s also a side of the reasons explained. I ve seen enough problems and bad stuff done by foreigners.   I am not in any way saying Bad foreigners  are worse Than bad Thais. 
But all these rules are basically made up based judicial and legal laws stopping at the Thai border when a foreigners is running alway and to have some safety measurements for stopping illegal work activity. 

Sure, but this kind of limitation (who, i understand is a reaction concerned by some abuse, who can not understand this ?) is also a restrictive act on people who are not rich and who never do anything wrong (i think the majority).

Also, this doesn't stop the malicious other who have money and relations enough to follow an illegal life.

So i consider this kind of restriction to be something unproductive relatively to the justice and the morality, but also relatively to the first target in concern.

Also, the medium salary for teacher and policemen in Thailand is around 22 000 THB a month (so, the money for the middle class). It is about 266 000 THB a year.

So compared to 400 000 THB is more than enough (and i think it is ok to garranty something to be safe anyway... if you add an assurance obligation, it is more than just safe). Now, let's recognize that 800 000 THB is a selective target more than a safety concern idea.

 

After, the 60 days is something intelligent because it was a real fact that some people just borrowed money to have the required task point then give it back after... so this  60 days has been done for that. And it is a good point.

 

And that is what it is... maybe something to do that can be a bit revised to be closer to a fair reality about how much is the real cost of the Thailand life (and when they want to tax me 10 times upper to visit something than Thai price, i just don't go).

So, what ever limit you provide, for some people, it is never enough, they have a hole in their pocket and says they "need" more... more and even more again (never enough)... do we have to paid for their mental illness ? I know a Thai woman who was married to a oil and gas engineer, she get a lot of money back after he die on the road (motorbike accident), and she loose all the money and the business she get for free (many million of THB, with a house) in 8 years only (a kind of money that if you just don't do anything and have a normal life, you should eat this in 40 years in Thailand, and with inflation claculated).

 

After, the intention... i don't know, we can not judge this easier, but we can look at the treatment of the daily affairs and political practices, justice practices and news around standard affairs, if they are treating there own people the same if rich or poor and have an idea of the situation.

By the time, it will become more and more difficult to insist to describe something to be pink when everybody see it is really an other one color.

Edited September 2, 2020 by jerolamo

[sambum]

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

20,000 pounds or $25,000 is a paltry amount of money?

Except to those who don't have it! Another "I'm all right, Jack, and I'm much better off than the average Joe"", 

 

 

[Time to grow]

8 hours ago, Crusader said:

This money thing often crops up in forums...

800k is a paltry amount of money to keep in an account to ensure one can remain in the country.  If people ares truggling to follow this, then surely they are not very well set for retirement.

If keeping money in the bank sounds like a good idea in this day and age, I would contend that you are not very well set for retirement.

[Time to grow]

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

wobbly 3rd world bank

Precisely! Banks in the developed world are getting pretty top heavy, I don't like keeping money in any bank these days.

[Unify]

8 hours ago, Crusader said:

This money thing often crops up in forums...

800k is a paltry amount of money to keep in an account to ensure one can remain in the country.  If people ares truggling to follow this, then surely they are not very well set for retirement.

But it has to sit there. You can't spend it, or invest it. You can't use it for retirement, so how does putting that money in the bank help you get set for retirement?

[thaiboss]

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

20,000 pounds or $25,000 is a paltry amount of money?

or monthly pension 65.000 thai baht

[Time to grow]

11 minutes ago, Unify said:

But it has to sit there. You can't spend it, or invest it. You can't use it for retirement, so how does putting that money in the bank help you get set for retirement?

Not to mention, there is a significant risk of loosing it altogether.

[checkered flag]

1 hour ago, transam said:

We do have a couple of rich guys posting here, probably potless but enjoying their couple of minutes of hi-so-ness on here......????....................????

 

Thai immigration has said for months to change your immigration status to long term or be prepare to leave. Those who don't have the means, can try the agent route or get a plane ticket. Best do it now because the prices for both could get higher as Sept 26 approaches. 

It's not being rich that matters, but more like taking care of your finances. The money amount isn't really that high.

I feel sorry for those that were doing border runs on a regular basis to avoid putting money in a Thai Bank as a work around. 

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, thaiboss said:

or monthly pension 65.000 thai baht

The problem being they want it transferred every month to a Thai bank, along with documentation of where it came from.

Which makes the whole thing a pointless paper chase.

They wouldn't accept my March pension statement from my Brit pension company (50kGBP paid), and a British bank statement (or a look at my Brit bank app). It's gotta be on paperwork they have specified to be as difficult an operation as possible to obtain.

 

To be honest I'd rather deal with an embassy/consulate not Jonesing for a bribe.

Edited September 2, 2020 by BritManToo

[checkered flag]

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The problem being they want it transferred every month to a Thai bank, along with documentation of where it came from.

Which makes the whole thing a pointless paper chase.

They wouldn't accept my March pension statement from my Brit pension company (50kGBP paid), and a British bank statement (or a look at my Brit bank app). It's gotta be on paperwork they have specified to be as difficult an operation as possible to obtain.

 

To be honest I'd rather deal with an embassy/consulate not Jonesing for a bribe.

It's pretty easy. I have my SS sent by IDD (about B80,000/ mo) to my Thai bank and use it for living expenses. Because it doesn't show as a foreign transfer I get credit advices from my bank. If we need additional money I simply transfer the amount needed. My wife's SS goes to our US bank.

[ThaiFelix]

9 hours ago, transam said:

Aaaah, so you're a hi-so member, that also knows every farangs financial predicaments, amazing......................................................

It has nothing to do with money in the bank but he just cant resist the opportunity tostrike out at others to make his own miserable bitter life seem better than others.  Maybe he should just go beat the wife instead.

[taxin]

What about the Non O visa holders who cannot do a border run and also do not qualify financially for an extension of stay, but need to remain in the country so they can raise their children ?

 

Will they be given any flexibility ?

[GoodieAfterDark]

14 hours ago, BritManToo said:

No, they're far worse by implying anyone without the ability to keep $25,000 in a wobbly 3rd world bank must be a worthless loser, that's far more than a year's gross wage to most of the world. 

$ 25 000. is not enough to pay for my annual rent where I live. And no, I am not rich. I would need a very good reason to invest $ 25 000. in Thailand. 

[Kalasin Jo]

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

20,000 pounds or $25,000 is a paltry amount of money?

No it isn't. Only a few years back the same sum in baht was bought by £16,000. Being on fixed pensions without ready access to capital doesn't help either.

If ,as I was, you are on a perfectly legal  non O multiple entry marriage based visa from the Savanakhet consulate, spending only  5 or 6 months a year in Thailand anyway what are you supposed to do? My visa had expired, I'd used up the 60 day extension on the 90 day entry permission and was on the amnesty. My IO wouldn't accept the monthly income basis for a year's extension as it was not the same ( ie regular) sum of 40k up each month, needed source confirmation too...that  they were foreign transfers in was not enough. Nor was I in a position suddenly to find that £10k and season it for 2 months, the solution suggested by my IO.  So I left for my other home in France, taking my wife with me and now hoping we can get her residency here in France. Dont know when we will be back. Likely, when permitted, it will only be for short holidays in future.

[Nout]

On 9/1/2020 at 8:54 PM, Matzzon said:

So, does this mean that they will also lower the 800k and 400k amounts? Come on now! Be fair, guys. ????????????

They are fair. They cooperate with and support agents to facilitate us meeting such financial requirements.

[Nout]

10 minutes ago, Kalasin Jo said:

No it isn't. Only a few years back the same sum in baht was bought by £16,000. Being on fixed pensions without ready access to capital doesn't help either.

If ,as I was, you are on a perfectly legal  non O multiple entry marriage based visa from the Savanakhet consulate, spending only  5 or 6 months a year in Thailand anyway what are you supposed to do? My visa had expired, I'd used up the 60 day extension on the 90 day entry permission and was on the amnesty. My IO wouldn't accept the monthly income basis for a year's extension as it was not the same ( ie regular) sum of 40k up each month, needed source confirmation too...that  they were foreign transfers in was not enough. Nor was I in a position suddenly to find that £10k and season it for 2 months, the solution suggested by my IO.  So I left for my other home in France, taking my wife with me and now hoping we can get her residency here in France. Dont know when we will be back. Likely, when permitted, it will only be for short holidays in future.

Why didn't you just use an agent?

[SunsetT]

16 hours ago, Crusader said:

This money thing often crops up in forums...

800k is a paltry amount of money to keep in an account to ensure one can remain in the country.  If people ares truggling to follow this, then surely they are not very well set for retirement.

OK. You might have it but what right do the Thai authorities have to make you leave it sitting in a bank account earning b u g g e r all interest for so long. It is your money and you should be free to do what you want with it between the annual extensions.

[The33]

14 hours ago, Matzzon said:

No, you are just twisting things as usual. Please read the message below before posting another silly remark.

I am not only thinking about myself. I am thinking about a normal reaction from a person that suddenly gets into problem. The normal reaction would be to try and minimise the damage and get out of the problem as easy as possible. That´s my way to, out of an intelligent perspective, think about others. If I would find myself in problems out of economic character, then I would not demand that the system is change just to suit me. I would accept that the rules are as they are, because I am the one that have forced myself into the position I am.

Now I do understand, out of your mant promotions and replies regarding all the harsch rules and financial demands, that you probably are a person who has fallen in a hard position and it looks like you have to fight to survive everyday. If so, I am sincerely sorry for you. Unfortunately it doesn´t look like there would be any changes coming up in the near future regarding that matter. So, I guess I, you and everybody else that have chosen to live in Thailand out of one reason or another. Yeah, we just have to find a way for staying, or try to find another solution that works.

 

And, dear Mr. Trans, It´s not me that are cracking on. I am trying to explain it as painless as possible for you. You are the one that constantly continue to complain and seem unhappy with your stay in this wonderful and friendly country. In other words, you are the one cracking on, you are. I mean why are you just trying and fighting so hard? If your plan has fallen apart, isn´t it much better to find a place of harmony in the world where you can feel at ease with the rules and regulations?

I think everyone understand what you are saying here, you are much more intelligent than the average person on here, pat yourself on the back, again.. You arent making your comments,  nor yourself look any better by stating that you are so intelligent.. And others are not..  Apparently not intelligent enough to know that one person's situation is different from the other... And there are many various reasons to why some people, many people are struggling with extending their visas these days... 

Sitting up there on your high-horse looking down on everyone else, and not being able to see how it makes you look even, tells me that when it comes to social intelligence, you have non...  

Edited September 2, 2020 by The33

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, The33 said:

I think everyone understand what you are saying here, you are much more intelligent than the average person on here, pat yourself on the back, again.. You arent making your comments,  nor yourself look any better by stating that you are so intelligent.. And others are not..  Apparently not intelligent enough to know that one person's situation is different from the other... And there are many various reasons to why some people, many people are struggling with extending their visas these days... 

Sitting up there on your high-horse looking down on everyone else, and not being able to see how it makes you look even, tells me that when it comes to social intelligence, you have non...  

Are you saying it´s ok to try and live permanent in Thailand on tourist visa, or that people should do what they can to walk around the rules and regulations regarding showing money for an extension? That´s what I am talking about, and both those option are wrong. As for now it is a situation like this in Thailand. To not live permanent on tourist visas in a country, that even a fool understand. Regarding the economic situation, that has not changed. Has been like this for many many years. That means people must be aware of what they must be able to meet up to, before settling in a foreign country like Thailand.

Now my questions.

 

Question 1: What in the world is it that you see as incredibly intelligent with that? I would see that way of thinking as falling under normal intelligence. Maybe it´s just you having difficulties separating what is more intelligent or less intelligent. Wonder what the reason for that might be.

As for question number two: Do you consider it right to come to a country and settle down with the knowledge of the rules, and then after a couple of year not can meet up to the requirement, and for that reason complain about them as well as try to break or circumvent them?

Alternative 3 & Question 3: Do you believe it´s ok to come to a country living on back-to-back tourist visas for permanent stay just because any other is not an option due to financial requirements or age? (Some actually live and work here as well, which makes it even more wrong and illegal.)

[checkered flag]

8 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

No it isn't. Only a few years back the same sum in baht was bought by £16,000. Being on fixed pensions without ready access to capital doesn't help either.

If ,as I was, you are on a perfectly legal  non O multiple entry marriage based visa from the Savanakhet consulate, spending only  5 or 6 months a year in Thailand anyway what are you supposed to do? My visa had expired, I'd used up the 60 day extension on the 90 day entry permission and was on the amnesty. My IO wouldn't accept the monthly income basis for a year's extension as it was not the same ( ie regular) sum of 40k up each month, needed source confirmation too...that  they were foreign transfers in was not enough. Nor was I in a position suddenly to find that £10k and season it for 2 months, the solution suggested by my IO.  So I left for my other home in France, taking my wife with me and now hoping we can get her residency here in France. Dont know when we will be back. Likely, when permitted, it will only be for short holidays in future.

Enjoy the French countryside and wine. Those of us with adequate resources will continue our life in LOS.

[checkered flag]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Probably, but I have never blocked anyone, I like to see what's going on....????

 

Suppose my pet peeve is keyboard 'chaps' who slag off members for not having loads of cash on standby, you know, rubbing their nose in it, when nobody knows if a farang has had a problem to deal with, or anything else for that matter.

 

I myself came to LOS on a whim after my life went upside down, and was nursing an illness, thought I was only going to be here a few years, but it turned into many and I do not want to return to anything like my previous life, yeh, it's been a bit tough at times but I can still smile every day.

 

I must confess, if my life back home had not gone pear shaped, no illness, and I still had my resources, I would not be in LOS now........????

 

Some folk here do not understand the possible reasons for folk moving to loss, regardless of finances, they just think of their life, not others, sad really.....????

What's your point. Everyone has difficulties in life, but most get over it and don't complain. Treat you difficulties as a learning experience and move on. 

[faraday]

2 hours ago, checkered flag said:

What's your point. Everyone has difficulties in life, but most get over it and don't complain. Treat you difficulties as a learning experience and move on. 

Do you have learning difficulties?

[Matzzon]

4 hours ago, transam said:

I myself came to LOS on a whim after my life went upside down, and was nursing an illness, thought I was only going to be here a few years, but it turned into many and I do not want to return to anything like my previous life, yeh, it's been a bit tough at times but I can still smile every day.

Sometimes life is just tough. However, if as you say, you still make it and can smile each day. Yeah, then you life is probably quite much better than many´s on this forum out of the total overload of complaints. ???? 

[samsensam]

20 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Actually, I will give it to you there. Sure, there can be some foreigners in Thailand that have come into financial problems that they have been absolutely unable to control. However, I am just so baffled that it seem to be so many when reading all the threads here on TV.

Never ever said that people will need to have lots of money stashed anywhere. What I am saying is that people must plan better before they do something they just can´t cover in the long run, or that they try and stay on the wrong visa for too long, and just believes that will work forever.

 

there probably seem to be a lot here because they have, for various reasons, a need to be vocal, others, who are able to do basic financial planning and live within their means have no incentive or desire to bang on about financial matters... thankfully i'm in the latter.

[luckyluke]

5 hours ago, checkered flag said:

Enjoy the French countryside and wine. Those of us with adequate resources will continue our life in LOS.

I wish I could afford to live comfortably somewhere around the French Riviera.

Alas I only have the funds to live well here.

[checkered flag]

1 minute ago, luckyluke said:

I wish I could afford to live comfortably somewhere around the French Riviera.

Alas I only have the funds to live well here.

That is if you can meet the required financials or pay an agent. 

[GeilGeilertzen]

I just see too many and insane comments by the posters here. 
You all need to stop arguing over the 800k requirement based from your own personal economy! 
 

If you can’t figure out why you can’t do that you need to get back to school.  
It really makes no sense since the worlds population have salaries from 100 dollars a month to 10 million dollars amount.  Talking about average salaries is also a worthless point to bring into this discussion because it’s a median. You need to know math and statistics to understand why even can’t argue over it.  It makes no point! Also don’t bring a thai citizen and their 

average salaries into this. That is insane ting tong if your mind is really set on that.  The thais belong in thai. They are going nowhere. They have families, land, rights, work and options in Thailand vs a foreigner. 
 

The question you should ask yourself is if your life was destroyed by a reckless potless foreigner what would you do? 

 

I see an ideology by many here that the poorer you are the more rights you should have. Should stuff and groeceries in shops be at a 75% discount for low salary folks? Should cinemas be free? Should beers be at 90% discount in bars because you need that so desperately much more than another?

And should maybe Africans additional to maybe don’t have any requirements for visas to Thailand also get free airplane tickets to Thailand so they also could live in Thailand and get

there. 
I don’t think so...

 

My conclusion;

In life a general concept that applies to all people is to work hard to get something or achieve something. If you didn’t do for the first 60 years of your life it’s hard to argue that 800 k is to much just because you don’t have it. 
 

I have a friend at work in his

mid 50s that don’t own a dime. He has the same salary as others in his department. He is the biggest whiner of all.   Only

complaining about how unfair the world is.  The truth: he has been sitting watching sit coms for the last 30 years, spent stupid

sums of money on stuff he could not afford.  Never got into housing market because he didn’t want to have a +1

Hour drive  to work + back everyday.  He ended up in a rental owning nothing that lazy man. Now he is getting extra mad At the world because of our currency deprivation and general price increase in Thailand, and his possibilities of retirement in thailand he always dreamt about. He can’t meet any requirements.  
I ve asked him; even you didn’t have to put up the 800k, how could

you come by in thai on your

lousy Retirement pension?

 

...........no answer received yet.

Edited September 3, 2020 by GeilGeilertzen